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+--- Thread: Politics (and other political stuff) (/showthread.php?tid=1001)
Re: RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Adrian - 21 Sep 2014
(21 Sep 2014, 9:19 am)AdamY You can tell Ed Miliband's desperate when he reels out the old 'We'll increase the NMW to £8 p/h if we get elected' line.TUC congress voted for a £10 minimum the other week.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/20/miliband-pledges-rise-poorest-workers-labour-uk
As much as I'd like to see it happen; it won't - irrespective of whether Labour get in or not.
I think if Ed has pledged that, he can't afford not to deliver. Labour would be out after a term if they didn't.
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - MurdnunoC - 21 Sep 2014
Upon further reading, the £8 p/h target is set to be achieved by 2020.
That's like 30p per year assuming that £6.50 will be reached by 2015 (just less than 34p per year if not).
It sounds even less appealing now!
Re: RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Adrian - 21 Sep 2014
(21 Sep 2014, 9:45 am)AdamY Upon further reading, the £8 p/h target is set to be achieved by 2020.Aye I know. They need to just be bold and do it within 12 months of entering office. It's hardly unaffordable when you look at the fact Executive pay rose by 14% last year alone.
That's like 30p per year assuming that £6.50 will be reached by 2015 (just less than 34p per year if not).
It sounds even less appealing now!
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Adrian - 22 Sep 2014
Anyone watching Labour 14 on BBC Parliament?
Re: RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Dan - 23 Sep 2014
(21 Sep 2014, 9:45 am)AdamY Upon further reading, the £8 p/h target is set to be achieved by 2020.Interesting read outlining the (obvious) consequences of the rising minimum wage...
That's like 30p per year assuming that £6.50 will be reached by 2015 (just less than 34p per year if not).
It sounds even less appealing now!
http://libertyscotland.wordpress.com/2014/09/23/ed-miliband-the-minimum-wage-and-unintended-consequences/
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Adrian - 23 Sep 2014
(23 Sep 2014, 2:50 pm)Dan Interesting read outlining the (obvious) consequences of the rising minimum wage...
http://libertyscotland.wordpress.com/2014/09/23/ed-miliband-the-minimum-wage-and-unintended-consequences/
Funnily enough, a lot of the reasons are recycled from when the NMW was introduced in 1998. John Major's conservative government argued this profusely throughout the 1997 general election campaign. Although the majority of Tories now agree that NMW was the right decision.
They managed then, and they'll manage again if Labour come to government next May. My only criticism is that we need this now - not in 2020.
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - MurdnunoC - 23 Sep 2014
(23 Sep 2014, 6:18 pm)aureolin Funnily enough, a lot of the reasons are recycled from when the NMW was introduced in 1998. John Major's conservative government argued this profusely throughout the 1997 general election campaign. Although the majority of Tories now agree that NMW was the right decision.
They managed then, and they'll manage again if Labour come to government next May. My only criticism is that we need this now - not in 2020.
The article comes across as neo-liberal scaremongering in my opinion.
Small businesses tend to pay more than MNC's as the cost and time of hiring staff sometimes has an adverse effect on productivity.
Also:
There are alternatives available. Firstly, a negative income tax should be considered. Under this system the government would supplement the wages of the lowest paid employees in order to bring their wages into line with the cost of living. While there may be inflationary repercussions to this strategy it would certainly remove the burden from small and medium sized enterprises and avoid the unemployment consequences outlined above. This strategy, as proposed by Milton Freidman, is untested but is certainly the most likely to succeed in real terms.
What is described above sounds similar to the Working Tax Credit scheme already in place.
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Adrian - 27 Oct 2014
Lots of discussion still going on over the live TV debates for the 2015 election. UKIP to get to take part, but no room for the Green Party? What's people's views on this?
I personally think that the Greens should take part, and I honestly think that they're the only party that offer a real alternative so far. I can't see anything coming from Labour...
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Andreos1 - 27 Oct 2014
I haven't had a look at the green partit's manifesto, so have no idea what they propose, offer or want.
They have a representative in Parliament, so deserve to have their say in any debates, TV shows etc.
They obviously don't have the magnetism or pull of Farage though.
Re: Politics (and other political stuff) - MrFozz - 27 Oct 2014
I personally think if you are represented in parliament, then you should be invited to debate, UKIP are not exactly powerful in Westminster, also the Greens arent either, I think the Greens should be invited to debate as well
Re: RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Adrian - 27 Oct 2014
(27 Oct 2014, 9:01 pm)Andreos1 I haven't had a look at the green partit's manifesto, so have no idea what they propose, offer or want.
They have a representative in Parliament, so deserve to have their say in any debates, TV shows etc.
They obviously don't have the magnetism or pull of Farage though.
Have a look at their manifesto if you get a chance. You'll probably be pleasantly surprised. Labour Durham are looking over their shoulder, because a lot of students and younger residents have been saying they're voting green. Which they've found out from doing their usual doorstepping.
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Andreos1 - 27 Oct 2014
(27 Oct 2014, 9:14 pm)aureolin Have a look at their manifesto if you get a chance. You'll probably be pleasantly surprised. Labour Durham are looking over their shoulder, because a lot of students and younger residents have been saying they're voting green. Which they've found out from doing their usual doorstepping.
Aye, will have a neb and see what they are proposing.
I used to know, the person who is currently Chair of the Newcastle Green Party.
Quite a character and after hearing him on Radio Newcastle a year or two ago, during an election period - he aint changed!
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Andreos1 - 30 Oct 2014
http://m.sunderlandecho.com/news/local/all-news/parliament-agrees-thatcher-misled-the-public-over-miners-strike-1-6922704
It's out there now.
Said a while back that this will be the next big 'no win-no fee' case and it just needs a test case to set the ball rolling.
Re: RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - MrFozz - 30 Oct 2014
(30 Oct 2014, 7:19 am)Andreos1 http://m.sunderlandecho.com/news/local/all-news/parliament-agrees-thatcher-misled-the-public-over-miners-strike-1-6922704
It's out there now.
Said a while back that this will be the next big 'no win-no fee' case and it just needs a test case to set the ball rolling.
Wasn't it proved earlier this year that Thatcher lied about Pit Closures in the 80's...
As for the Armed Forces on Picket Lines, I have heard a few stories of Soldiers being used, heard from people on both sides of the picket line, a few people told me they remember seeing Policemen without numbers and looking and talking like soldiers, I even read somewhere that the government were planinng to/did use the SAS on Picket Duty and a guy I consider to be a decent bloke and done a lot for me was in the Army in the 1980's and he was adamant he was on picket policing duty, I remember reading the official line was the Army weren't involved, but why would this guy lie to me, he had no reason to lie...I think it was him that said 'we were gearing up for Civil War, Thatcher was never going to back down, she would have took the country with her if Scargill got a sniff of victory'
The Miners Strike interests me, despite knowing little about it, it is nore of an interest this year as it is the 30th Anniversary, my old granddad once told me if his union had come out(NACODS), then Thatcher may have been forced to negotiate, but NACODS stayed at work as a skeleton workforce to keep pits running
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Andreos1 - 30 Oct 2014
Yeah, the papers released under the 30 year rule implied she has lied.
The motion put forward confirms that she did mislead the entire country.
Makes you wonder what other pork pies have been hidden away.
Re: RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - MrFozz - 30 Oct 2014
(30 Oct 2014, 9:12 am)Andreos1 Yeah, the papers released under the 30 year rule implied she has lied.Where would a test court case come from btw, Could the NUM take it to court, could your average miner(who didnt want to strike, but did and suffered massively) test the water, some miners suffered hardship so bad, there probably not over it to this day, be interesting to see just what happens here
The motion put forward confirms that she did mislead the entire country.
Makes you wonder what other pork pies have been hidden away.
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Andreos1 - 30 Oct 2014
Unions, communities, families, individuals - the list of people affected by the strike/closure programme is massive.
Any one of them could launch a claim.
It could be like the asbestos or whitefinger claims from a few years back.
Led/promoted by unions, but up to individuals perhaps?
30 years on and there has just recently been a debate in parliament about the communities struggling to adapt and the longer term implications of the pit closure programme.
Re: RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - MrFozz - 30 Oct 2014
(30 Oct 2014, 9:37 am)Andreos1 Unions, communities, families, individuals - the list of people affected by the strike/closure programme is massive.
Any one of them could launch a claim.
It could be like the asbestos or whitefinger claims from a few years back.
Led/promoted by unions, but up to individuals perhaps?
30 years on and there has just recently been a debate in parliament about the communities struggling to adapt and the longer term implications of the pit closure programme.
Struggling to adapt is an understatement, this area, especially, has struggled every day for the last 30 years, I say we pretty much lost everything
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Andreos1 - 30 Oct 2014
(30 Oct 2014, 9:50 am)marxistafozzski Struggling to adapt is an understatement, this area, especially, has struggled every day for the last 30 years, I say we pretty much lost everything
The crux of it was, that Thatcher thought that private enterprise would step in.
In a boom and bust economy, there was only going to be one outcome for the people and the communities.
Even Nissan have struggled at times - so not sure how she thought a smaller organisation or even a start up would last.
Unless she wanted the North East to go through the 'managed decline', that was proposed for Liverpool...
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - MurdnunoC - 30 Oct 2014
The thing with the Miners Strike, and I believe I've said the same in another thread, is that the mines in the North East would have probably closed within the next decade anyway. Pit closures were already commonplace in the region (most of which happened in the 1950 and 60s) and what was left were the remnants of an industry which was already dead. While the actions of Thatcher should come under immense scrutiny, and I hope someone does launch a test case in light of recent evidence, she cannot be held responsible for the plight of the industry. Although the North East sits upon a huge seam of coal, most of the quality coal - for lack of a better term - had been exhausted. We must not forget that coal had been mined extensively in the region since the 14th century. Getting to the good stuff required deeper, more expensive mines and, as the coal industry started to decline, it became cheaper to import coal from other countries. The communities affected by the Miners Strike would have arguably faced the same economic hardships irrespective of the actions of Thatcher although I suspect the transition from coal mining into other industries might have been smoother as miners could have been retrained gradually rather than just having their culled with no other options.