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+--- Thread: Politics (and other political stuff) (/showthread.php?tid=1001)
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Michael - 31 Oct 2016
Are all Trump supporters idiots?, seriously some of them need to wake up and see how he's gonna destroy the country..
Watching channel 4 news and its like they think hes going to sort the USA straight away
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Andreos1 - 31 Oct 2016
(31 Oct 2016, 6:34 pm)KAdrian I'm not.
You'd think they had something to hide?
Apparently May had given supporters hope.
Hillsborough was knocked back at least once if I remember right. Hopefully campaigners get a similar outcome in the future.
(31 Oct 2016, 7:32 pm)Jamie M I do not believe there is any wrongdoing. I've never have gotten to grips with the actual reasoning, but the protest was an act of enterprise level crime. They were simply depriving the business of, well, business. There are effective ways of protesting, but going about it in an obnoxious way is going to make you look like an obnoxious moron. The police were doing nothing but ensuring the protesting was not being in any scope illegal or otherwise threatening the health of a business, to which had yet to be proven as wrongful. Not deaths were there to be covered up, and it's not disputed that there are any wrongful arrests made. Perhaps the police shouldn't to have resorted to violence, if they even did. And inquiry cannot bring alive what occured 32 years ago, simply because nothing to which people wish to know is documented. It feels like the only reason this took off is because of people who feel they were treated in the wrong manner by the police have seen a glimmer of chance of sucess due to the uncovering of the tragic and catastrophic failure of the police at h'bro football. These people are chancing at the same sucess, but I very much doubt there is much that an inquest could shed light on.
I wasn't alive at the time and do not fully know the background, but this is my response from the little I do know.
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You should have a read up about the police behaviours and collusion. Or the stories about how magistrates dropped every single charge made against the miners.
Police collusion happened locally too (I have shared anecdotes previously).
Rather than being congratulated by the government at the time, maybe a firmer hand and punishment towards those who did lie was more deserving. It may have got rid of the culture unfortunately demonstrated yet again, just 4 1/2 years later in Sheffield.
edit: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/31/burning-injustice-of-orgreave-is-left-smouldering Just found this.
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Adrian - 31 Oct 2016
(31 Oct 2016, 7:32 pm)Jamie M I do not believe there is any wrongdoing. I've never have gotten to grips with the actual reasoning, but the protest was an act of enterprise level crime. They were simply depriving the business of, well, business. There are effective ways of protesting, but going about it in an obnoxious way is going to make you look like an obnoxious moron. The police were doing nothing but ensuring the protesting was not being in any scope illegal or otherwise threatening the health of a business, to which had yet to be proven as wrongful. Not deaths were there to be covered up, and it's not disputed that there are any wrongful arrests made. Perhaps the police shouldn't to have resorted to violence, if they even did. And inquiry cannot bring alive what occured 32 years ago, simply because nothing to which people wish to know is documented. It feels like the only reason this took off is because of people who feel they were treated in the wrong manner by the police have seen a glimmer of chance of sucess due to the uncovering of the tragic and catastrophic failure of the police at h'bro football. These people are chancing at the same sucess, but I very much doubt there is much that an inquest could shed light on.
I wasn't alive at the time and do not fully know the background, but this is my response from the little I do know.
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You should read the Hillsborough report...
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/report/
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Michael - 02 Nov 2016
I'm not in to politics but by god i'm loving the USA presidential election, just reading some comments on Trumps personal Facebook page...
Trump's win will be so massive it will be felt through out the whole world. People even in the middle of nowhere in some other country will hear of it and know great things are going to start happening for the United States (y). The resurrection and revival of a country on life support. Trump is going to bring this country back from the dead.
Parents in Minnesota listen to your kids. Minnesota high schoolers have spoken, and they’are choosing Donald Trump.I hope their parents are as smart as their kids in Minnesota.
Loving all the comments about Clinton and how Trump is going to take over the world lmao
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - MrFozz - 02 Nov 2016
(31 Oct 2016, 7:32 pm)Jamie M I do not believe there is any wrongdoing. I've never have gotten to grips with the actual reasoning, but the protest was an act of enterprise level crime. They were simply depriving the business of, well, business. There are effective ways of protesting, but going about it in an obnoxious way is going to make you look like an obnoxious moron. The police were doing nothing but ensuring the protesting was not being in any scope illegal or otherwise threatening the health of a business, to which had yet to be proven as wrongful. Not deaths were there to be covered up, and it's not disputed that there are any wrongful arrests made. Perhaps the police shouldn't to have resorted to violence, if they even did. And inquiry cannot bring alive what occured 32 years ago, simply because nothing to which people wish to know is documented. It feels like the only reason this took off is because of people who feel they were treated in the wrong manner by the police have seen a glimmer of chance of sucess due to the uncovering of the tragic and catastrophic failure of the police at h'bro football. These people are chancing at the same sucess, but I very much doubt there is much that an inquest could shed light on.
I wasn't alive at the time and do not fully know the background, but this is my response from the little I do know.
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I agree with some of your points, and from what I have heard over the years, it is people like Arthur Scargill who came across as a bit of a moron, nobody comes out of this in a good light really
but It is Police procedure that needs investigating.
Orgreave: operational orders 'were wrong' - former officer
Retired police to back miners over 1984 'Battle of Orgreave'
There is a lot of questions to be answered and somebody needs to be held accountable for what happened.
I would like to know why at one point in the day possibly in the afternoon, the trouble had died down, miners were sunbathing or playing football after the Coke Plant closed for the day and the Police decided to launch an unprovoked attack on the miners.
It seems to me that nobody will come out of this in a very positive light, but The Police, Arthur Scargill, NUM, The Government of the day and the Miners need to answer questions and I believe the tactics deployed in Orgreave in some way brought about Hillsborough.
Why did a shitload of trials collapse, if there was nothing wrong with policing, people would have been sent down.
Battle of Orgreave: Police had been relishing clashes
Orgreave: Police told to use as much force as possible
I don't care whatvthe scenario is, police relishing battles, being told to use whatever force possible is just wrong, you would think it was full blown war, that is the kind of put down we'd have expected to have heard about in places like Moscow or Bucharest or Budapest pre-1989 before the Berlin Wall came down.
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RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Adrian - 02 Nov 2016
Let us not forget that Scargill was right. It was revealed in 2014 from archive papers that there was indeed a hit list of 75 mines to be closed, costing 75,000 jobs. The next 30 years were of course a massive Government cover up.
https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-4162-Thatcher-files-show-Scargill-was-right
Owen Jones hit the nail on the head for me in an article he wrote - Orgreave was part of the class war that ended with 96 dead at Hillsborough.
Whilst I am not surprised at this Government's decision, it does not make me any less angry at it. They seem more intent to preserve the "legacy" of Maggie, than let natural justice in this country take plae. It is in the public interest to have this out in the open. If there is nothing to hide, then why do the Tories want to prevent this from happening? Sounds like another stitch up to me.
Hillsborough and Orgreave: one police force, two disgraces.
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - MrFozz - 02 Nov 2016
(02 Nov 2016, 8:07 pm)Adrian Let us not forget that Scargill was right. It was revealed in 2014 from archive papers that there was indeed a hit list of 75 mines to be closed, costing 75,000 jobs. The next 30 years were of course a massive Government cover up.
https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-4162-Thatcher-files-show-Scargill-was-right
Owen Jones hit the nail on the head for me in an article he wrote - Orgreave was part of the class war that ended with 96 dead at Hillsborough.
Whilst I am not surprised at this Government's decision, it does not make me any less angry at it. They seem more intent to preserve the "legacy" of Maggie, than let natural justice in this country take plae. It is in the public interest to have this out in the open. If there is nothing to hide, then why do the Tories want to prevent this from happening? Sounds like another stitch up to me.
Hillsborough and Orgreave: one police force, two disgraces.
Interesting way to put it...
Is it safe to say to the cover up of Orgreave effectively gave us Hillsborough.
I honestly dont know a lot in detail about Orgreave or the strike in general, but what people have told me, is that Scargill was a bit of a moron in how he went about his business at the time, but the government were bigger arseholes and that Maggies problem was not so much with the miners themselves, but Arthur Scargill himself, that she would never have let Scargill win and that if he took her down, she would have brought country down with her...I dont know how far from the truth that is mind...
Anyway it amazes me that 1 police force could be involved in mass cover-ups twice in less than 5 years, sounds like SYP were not fit for purpose through he 1980's and the country needs to know why they were so incompetant and how they became such a joke in under 5 years
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Politics (and other political stuff) - MrFozz - 05 Nov 2016
What happens with Brexit now?
Now the high court has ruled against the Government triggering Article 50 without consent of the Commons or the Lords, if the Commons and Lords veto the triggering of Article 50, then what was the point of the Referendum in the first place?
I think it is safe to say the Government will take this to this issue to the Supreme Court, what if the Government lose that appeal?
While I dont understand it in depth, it seems to me to be the Remain Supporters throwing there toys out the pram, and as soon as they were beaten the plotting started to get what they want, I dont want to turn this into an argument or heated debate, I just dont understand why some are going against the result of the vote.
Where does the Country go from here, some parts of the press are already talking about an Early Election in 2017, possibly very early spring, although Mrs May has denied that.
So dudes, what what are the chances of:-
1. Mrs Mays Appeal to the Supreme Court being successful
2. Early Election
3. Article 50 being triggered by March 31 2017
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RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Adrian - 05 Nov 2016
(05 Nov 2016, 9:30 am)MrFozz While I dont understand it in depth, it seems to me to be the Remain Supporters throwing there toys out the pram, and as soon as they were beaten the plotting started to get what they want, I dont want to turn this into an argument or heated debate, I just dont understand why some are going against the result of the vote.
I don't think that is the case at all. The issue is that Parliament is being refused the chance of debating and tabling amendments to the Government's proposal. It's not right in a democracy, that a Government should have a free reign to come up with what they want, for such a huge issue affecting the country. It needs to go through the proper level of scrutiny which Parliament provides.
After all, let us not forget that the ballot paper only had one question - "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?". A majority have spoken, and clearly we have to leave the European Union, but the terms of doing so need that debate.
The Tories agree we need to leave, but want to do things behind closed doors. Labour agree we need to leave, but want it to go through proper scrutiny of Parliament. The SNP will not support us leaving, because Scotland voted by majority to remain, and it was what was sold to them in their independence referendum.
Interesting times ahead!
(05 Nov 2016, 9:30 am)MrFozz Where does the Country go from here, some parts of the press are already talking about an Early Election in 2017, possibly very early spring, although Mrs May has denied that.
Early Election is of course mooted, but I'd be very surprised if it happens. I know Labour internally aren't currently preparing for one, or at least not up North!
(05 Nov 2016, 9:30 am)MrFozz So dudes, what what are the chances of:-
1. Mrs Mays Appeal to the Supreme Court being successful
2. Early Election
3. Article 50 being triggered by March 31 2017
1. I don't think it will be.
2. Slim to no chance.
3. Even less chance!
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Michael - 08 Nov 2016
So who will it be?
Trump or Clinton....
Said it for weeks, Trump will win, have that feeling.
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - NK53 TKT - 08 Nov 2016
(08 Nov 2016, 7:23 pm)Michael So who will it be?
Trump or Clinton....
Said it for weeks, Trump will win, have that feeling.
I hope so
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - MrFozz - 08 Nov 2016
(08 Nov 2016, 7:23 pm)Michael So who will it be?Hillary Clinton by the slightest of margins
Trump or Clinton....
Said it for weeks, Trump will win, have that feeling.
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RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Michael - 08 Nov 2016
(08 Nov 2016, 8:21 pm)NK53 TKT I hope so
Can i ask, why you hope so?
Not saying that's wrong though, just a general question.
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Michael - 08 Nov 2016
(08 Nov 2016, 8:22 pm)MrFozz Hillary Clinton by the slightest of margins
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Both as bad as other tbh.
Who ever they get, the USA will be screwed.
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - MrFozz - 09 Nov 2016
(08 Nov 2016, 8:22 pm)MrFozz Hillary Clinton by the slightest of marginsBBC News just reported Hillary Clinton has conceded to Donald Trump
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RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - S813 FVK - 09 Nov 2016
(09 Nov 2016, 7:39 am)MrFozz BBC News just reported Hillary Clinton has conceded to Donald Trump
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Correct. She was left needing to win all 6 states yet to declare to win.
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - MrFozz - 09 Nov 2016
(09 Nov 2016, 7:58 am)S813 FVK Correct. She was left needing to win all 6 states yet to declare to win.Seems like nobody can predict polls these days...
Surprise result in our last election
Surprise result in the brexit poll
Now surprise in the US Election
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RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Andreos1 - 09 Nov 2016
verb
informal
verb: trump; to emit toxic substance offensive to most. Foul odour. Noxious.
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - MrFozz - 09 Nov 2016
(09 Nov 2016, 8:27 am)Andreos1 verb[FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY][FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY][FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY]
informal
verb: trump; to emit toxic substance offensive to most. Foul odour. Noxious.
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RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - Michael - 09 Nov 2016
Told you he would win, said it for weeks.
