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Arriva North East: Upcoming Service Changes

Arriva North East: Upcoming Service Changes

 
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mb134



4,131
17 Dec 2023, 3:08 pm #3,481
(17 Dec 2023, 10:53 am)L469 YVK The whole reason why the loop will likely be in place (subject to consultation) is so that running times can be increased. Effectively, the time saved interworking the X21 & 35 via the loop will be re-invested elsewhere in both routes.

Yes - so why would they swap the routes of them in Bedlington if they've identified the solution to late running as looping Newbiggin?
mb134
17 Dec 2023, 3:08 pm #3,481

(17 Dec 2023, 10:53 am)L469 YVK The whole reason why the loop will likely be in place (subject to consultation) is so that running times can be increased. Effectively, the time saved interworking the X21 & 35 via the loop will be re-invested elsewhere in both routes.

Yes - so why would they swap the routes of them in Bedlington if they've identified the solution to late running as looping Newbiggin?

L469 YVK



3,544
17 Dec 2023, 3:49 pm #3,482
(17 Dec 2023, 3:08 pm)mb134 Yes - so why would they swap the routes of them in Bedlington if they've identified the solution to late running as looping Newbiggin?
That won't allow sufficient time alone to be added to journeys though to help keep things robust. Ashington to Newcastle on the current X21 route but via Hartford Road instead would need at least 60 minutes outbound and 58 minutes inbound. Effectively the 'old' X21 and X31/X32 route, one time only needing around 52 minutes on that stretch.

Add Nedderton into the equation then increases that to 65 and 63 minutes retrospectively. Then add any extra time onto the 35 needed. Not forgetting Sundays & Bank Holidays which really need to adpot the same running times as Mondays to Saturdays.

See the attached suggestion timetable and people will get what I mean about swapping back the X21/X22 in Bedlington.

.pdf
35_X21_X22.pdf
Size: 229.34 KB / Downloads: 14
Edited 17 Dec 2023, 3:51 pm by L469 YVK.
L469 YVK
17 Dec 2023, 3:49 pm #3,482

(17 Dec 2023, 3:08 pm)mb134 Yes - so why would they swap the routes of them in Bedlington if they've identified the solution to late running as looping Newbiggin?
That won't allow sufficient time alone to be added to journeys though to help keep things robust. Ashington to Newcastle on the current X21 route but via Hartford Road instead would need at least 60 minutes outbound and 58 minutes inbound. Effectively the 'old' X21 and X31/X32 route, one time only needing around 52 minutes on that stretch.

Add Nedderton into the equation then increases that to 65 and 63 minutes retrospectively. Then add any extra time onto the 35 needed. Not forgetting Sundays & Bank Holidays which really need to adpot the same running times as Mondays to Saturdays.

See the attached suggestion timetable and people will get what I mean about swapping back the X21/X22 in Bedlington.

.pdf
35_X21_X22.pdf
Size: 229.34 KB / Downloads: 14

mb134



4,131
17 Dec 2023, 5:05 pm #3,483
(17 Dec 2023, 3:49 pm)L469 YVK That won't allow sufficient time alone to be added to journeys though to help keep things robust. 

Sitting for 17 minutes in Morpeth and 9 in Haymarket each cycle is massively overkill, given time is being put back into the routes. 

Ultimately Arriva have consulted on a change to the route in Newbiggin and Newbiggin alone, not a pointless change in Bedlington. I think it's more than safe to assume that will be the only change to the route.
mb134
17 Dec 2023, 5:05 pm #3,483

(17 Dec 2023, 3:49 pm)L469 YVK That won't allow sufficient time alone to be added to journeys though to help keep things robust. 

Sitting for 17 minutes in Morpeth and 9 in Haymarket each cycle is massively overkill, given time is being put back into the routes. 

Ultimately Arriva have consulted on a change to the route in Newbiggin and Newbiggin alone, not a pointless change in Bedlington. I think it's more than safe to assume that will be the only change to the route.

L469 YVK



3,544
17 Dec 2023, 6:46 pm #3,484
(17 Dec 2023, 5:05 pm)mb134 Sitting for 17 minutes in Morpeth and 9 in Haymarket each cycle is massively overkill, given time is being put back into the routes. 

Ultimately Arriva have consulted on a change to the route in Newbiggin and Newbiggin alone, not a pointless change in Bedlington. I think it's more than safe to assume that will be the only change to the route.

Could say the same for the 43/44/45 layovers too. And also the 306 layovers in Whitley Bay.

But the 17 and 9 minute layovers would help get things back on track should there be any moderate delays to services plus hugely help at peak times. Also have to take into account for a smooth change between the X21 and 35 in Newbiggin, anything more than 3 minutes will be off putting. Plus it wouldn't be the worst idea having a decent length layover in Morpeth after doing a full X21 and 35.

Don't forget either that Sundays & Bank Holidays also seem to be plagued with reliability issues. The X21 going back via Hartford Road would allow a clean and easy interworking pattern with the 35 & X22 on Sundays without any long layovers in Morpeth.
Edited 17 Dec 2023, 7:08 pm by L469 YVK.
L469 YVK
17 Dec 2023, 6:46 pm #3,484

(17 Dec 2023, 5:05 pm)mb134 Sitting for 17 minutes in Morpeth and 9 in Haymarket each cycle is massively overkill, given time is being put back into the routes. 

Ultimately Arriva have consulted on a change to the route in Newbiggin and Newbiggin alone, not a pointless change in Bedlington. I think it's more than safe to assume that will be the only change to the route.

Could say the same for the 43/44/45 layovers too. And also the 306 layovers in Whitley Bay.

But the 17 and 9 minute layovers would help get things back on track should there be any moderate delays to services plus hugely help at peak times. Also have to take into account for a smooth change between the X21 and 35 in Newbiggin, anything more than 3 minutes will be off putting. Plus it wouldn't be the worst idea having a decent length layover in Morpeth after doing a full X21 and 35.

Don't forget either that Sundays & Bank Holidays also seem to be plagued with reliability issues. The X21 going back via Hartford Road would allow a clean and easy interworking pattern with the 35 & X22 on Sundays without any long layovers in Morpeth.

mb134



4,131
17 Dec 2023, 9:06 pm #3,485
(17 Dec 2023, 6:46 pm)L469 YVK Don't forget either that Sundays & Bank Holidays also seem to be plagued with reliability issues. 

There have been more Sunday/BH boards introduced for this very reason. 

Ultimately the X21 and X22 aren't swapping to the routes they did over a decade ago, and probably never will.
mb134
17 Dec 2023, 9:06 pm #3,485

(17 Dec 2023, 6:46 pm)L469 YVK Don't forget either that Sundays & Bank Holidays also seem to be plagued with reliability issues. 

There have been more Sunday/BH boards introduced for this very reason. 

Ultimately the X21 and X22 aren't swapping to the routes they did over a decade ago, and probably never will.

L469 YVK



3,544
17 Dec 2023, 9:20 pm #3,486
(17 Dec 2023, 9:06 pm)mb134 There have been more Sunday/BH boards introduced for this very reason. 

Ultimately the X21 and X22 aren't swapping to the routes they did over a decade ago, and probably never will.

Whereabouts have Arriva added the extra boards? Bar a few minutes added to the X22 unless remote reliefs are actively happening in Morpeth on Sundays? There's a few today I've noticed on bustimes.
L469 YVK
17 Dec 2023, 9:20 pm #3,486

(17 Dec 2023, 9:06 pm)mb134 There have been more Sunday/BH boards introduced for this very reason. 

Ultimately the X21 and X22 aren't swapping to the routes they did over a decade ago, and probably never will.

Whereabouts have Arriva added the extra boards? Bar a few minutes added to the X22 unless remote reliefs are actively happening in Morpeth on Sundays? There's a few today I've noticed on bustimes.

mb134



4,131
17 Dec 2023, 10:46 pm #3,487
(17 Dec 2023, 9:20 pm)L469 YVK Whereabouts have Arriva added the extra boards? Bar a few minutes added to the X22 unless remote reliefs are actively happening in Morpeth on Sundays? There's a few today I've noticed on bustimes.

There are multiple additional boards, such as the one starting as the 1114 35.
mb134
17 Dec 2023, 10:46 pm #3,487

(17 Dec 2023, 9:20 pm)L469 YVK Whereabouts have Arriva added the extra boards? Bar a few minutes added to the X22 unless remote reliefs are actively happening in Morpeth on Sundays? There's a few today I've noticed on bustimes.

There are multiple additional boards, such as the one starting as the 1114 35.

L469 YVK



3,544
18 Dec 2023, 10:15 am #3,488
(17 Dec 2023, 10:46 pm)mb134 There are multiple additional boards, such as the one starting as the 1114 35.
That's not an additional board though, that's just extra PVR being thrown in. A bit like what GNE used to do at Hexham & Bishop Auckland when the 10 & X21 had long layovers with a new bus sent out.

A PVR of 7x with the X22 > X21 > 35 > 35 > X21 > X22 interworking pattern would allow Sunday journeys to use the same running times as per Monday to Saturdays, improving reliability.
L469 YVK
18 Dec 2023, 10:15 am #3,488

(17 Dec 2023, 10:46 pm)mb134 There are multiple additional boards, such as the one starting as the 1114 35.
That's not an additional board though, that's just extra PVR being thrown in. A bit like what GNE used to do at Hexham & Bishop Auckland when the 10 & X21 had long layovers with a new bus sent out.

A PVR of 7x with the X22 > X21 > 35 > 35 > X21 > X22 interworking pattern would allow Sunday journeys to use the same running times as per Monday to Saturdays, improving reliability.

mb134



4,131
18 Dec 2023, 10:36 am #3,489
(18 Dec 2023, 10:15 am)L469 YVK That's not an additional board though, that's just extra PVR being thrown in. A bit like what GNE used to do at Hexham & Bishop Auckland when the 10 & X21 had long layovers with a new bus sent out.

No it literally, physically, is an additional board.
mb134
18 Dec 2023, 10:36 am #3,489

(18 Dec 2023, 10:15 am)L469 YVK That's not an additional board though, that's just extra PVR being thrown in. A bit like what GNE used to do at Hexham & Bishop Auckland when the 10 & X21 had long layovers with a new bus sent out.

No it literally, physically, is an additional board.

L469 YVK



3,544
18 Dec 2023, 2:09 pm #3,490
(18 Dec 2023, 10:36 am)mb134 No it literally, physically, is an additional board.

As in a duplicate or a new bus & driver sent out from Morpeth?
L469 YVK
18 Dec 2023, 2:09 pm #3,490

(18 Dec 2023, 10:36 am)mb134 No it literally, physically, is an additional board.

As in a duplicate or a new bus & driver sent out from Morpeth?

L469 YVK



3,544
18 Dec 2023, 4:42 pm #3,491
I suppose it would be do-able keeping Bedlington to Newcastle as it is now on both routes, although wouldn't leave much scope for decent layovers at Newcastle or Morpeth with 65 / 63 minute running times between Newcastle & Ashington plus the rest of added time thrown in.

The main advantage running the X21 via Hartford Road however is that it could potentially win over / retain customers who aren't going around Central Station and don't want the hassle of changing onto the Metro or walking. On the flipside however, Red House Farm and Nedderton could keep the X21 viable on a 30 minute frequency (X22 won't be as affected) should most passengers around the Bedlington Station area deflect to the train. Completely unknown territory at the moment although Arriva did make the move swapping around the X8 & X9 between Blyth and Cramlington for that exact reason to try and retain customers.
Edited 18 Dec 2023, 4:43 pm by L469 YVK.
L469 YVK
18 Dec 2023, 4:42 pm #3,491

I suppose it would be do-able keeping Bedlington to Newcastle as it is now on both routes, although wouldn't leave much scope for decent layovers at Newcastle or Morpeth with 65 / 63 minute running times between Newcastle & Ashington plus the rest of added time thrown in.

The main advantage running the X21 via Hartford Road however is that it could potentially win over / retain customers who aren't going around Central Station and don't want the hassle of changing onto the Metro or walking. On the flipside however, Red House Farm and Nedderton could keep the X21 viable on a 30 minute frequency (X22 won't be as affected) should most passengers around the Bedlington Station area deflect to the train. Completely unknown territory at the moment although Arriva did make the move swapping around the X8 & X9 between Blyth and Cramlington for that exact reason to try and retain customers.

mb134



4,131
18 Dec 2023, 5:40 pm #3,492
(18 Dec 2023, 2:09 pm)L469 YVK As in a duplicate or a new bus & driver sent out from Morpeth?

As in it's the start of a board, thus will always be a new bus and driver.
mb134
18 Dec 2023, 5:40 pm #3,492

(18 Dec 2023, 2:09 pm)L469 YVK As in a duplicate or a new bus & driver sent out from Morpeth?

As in it's the start of a board, thus will always be a new bus and driver.

19 Dec 2023, 2:45 pm #3,493
Early days but does anyone have an idea of how the new 777 route may look? Seems quite a rural route unless you end up around the doors and doubling back the odd time.

Possible #1
https://maps.app.goo.gl/SGXLNQDpkN2RRSYn9
- Fairly direct not but a lot of traffic between Morpeth & Ponteland.

Possible #2
https://maps.app.goo.gl/p2WTWSCMjz2AZsy76
- Less direct, but taking in Stannington & Dinnington.

Possible #3
https://maps.app.goo.gl/dG72Yf1hvjdWNDPD9
- Too much? But you can catch Whitehouse Farm, St Mary's, Stannington & Dinnington (to name a few!)

Time will tell I guess!
thw1008
19 Dec 2023, 2:45 pm #3,493

Early days but does anyone have an idea of how the new 777 route may look? Seems quite a rural route unless you end up around the doors and doubling back the odd time.

Possible #1
https://maps.app.goo.gl/SGXLNQDpkN2RRSYn9
- Fairly direct not but a lot of traffic between Morpeth & Ponteland.

Possible #2
https://maps.app.goo.gl/p2WTWSCMjz2AZsy76
- Less direct, but taking in Stannington & Dinnington.

Possible #3
https://maps.app.goo.gl/dG72Yf1hvjdWNDPD9
- Too much? But you can catch Whitehouse Farm, St Mary's, Stannington & Dinnington (to name a few!)

Time will tell I guess!

Aaron21



775
19 Dec 2023, 9:20 pm #3,494
I wonder if the 57/57A route change would be extended the 57/57A to North Shields full time Monday to Saturday

Still confused why it goes there on an evening & Sundays.  Would give people from Whitley to North Shields via Rake Lane of which a bus from. Yea the 317 goes there but do wonder if the 57/57A will go there
Edited 19 Dec 2023, 9:21 pm by Aaron21.
Aaron21
19 Dec 2023, 9:20 pm #3,494

I wonder if the 57/57A route change would be extended the 57/57A to North Shields full time Monday to Saturday

Still confused why it goes there on an evening & Sundays.  Would give people from Whitley to North Shields via Rake Lane of which a bus from. Yea the 317 goes there but do wonder if the 57/57A will go there

mb134



4,131
19 Dec 2023, 9:27 pm #3,495
(19 Dec 2023, 9:20 pm)Aaron21 I wonder if the 57/57A route change would be extended the 57/57A to North Shields full time Monday to Saturday

Still confused why it goes there on an evening & Sundays.  Would give people from Whitley to North Shields via Rake Lane of which a bus from. Yea the 317 goes there but do wonder if the 57/57A will go there

Think that would require yet another PVR increase on the service? 

Given there seems to be lots of focus on improving evening services, I wonder if providing Ashington with an evening link to Cramlington would be on the cards - which of course is PVR neutral?
mb134
19 Dec 2023, 9:27 pm #3,495

(19 Dec 2023, 9:20 pm)Aaron21 I wonder if the 57/57A route change would be extended the 57/57A to North Shields full time Monday to Saturday

Still confused why it goes there on an evening & Sundays.  Would give people from Whitley to North Shields via Rake Lane of which a bus from. Yea the 317 goes there but do wonder if the 57/57A will go there

Think that would require yet another PVR increase on the service? 

Given there seems to be lots of focus on improving evening services, I wonder if providing Ashington with an evening link to Cramlington would be on the cards - which of course is PVR neutral?

Storx



4,481
19 Dec 2023, 10:20 pm #3,496
(19 Dec 2023, 9:20 pm)Aaron21 I wonder if the 57/57A route change would be extended the 57/57A to North Shields full time Monday to Saturday
Still confused why it goes there on an evening & Sundays.  Would give people from Whitley to North Shields via Rake Lane of which a bus from. Yea the 317 goes there but do wonder if the 57/57A will go there

I highly doubt it will be but I wish they'd change the Whitley end so it runs like this:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.04253...?entry=ttu

Instead of pissing about going around the back of the Firestation and getting stuck at numerous traffic lights for absolutely no benefit. Would open links to the beach and Spanish City area aswell, plus save time. So it's win/win. The bus stop the 57/57A stops at near Sainsbury's is unused so it laying over there wouldn't be an issue if needed.
Edited 19 Dec 2023, 10:24 pm by Storx.
Storx
19 Dec 2023, 10:20 pm #3,496

(19 Dec 2023, 9:20 pm)Aaron21 I wonder if the 57/57A route change would be extended the 57/57A to North Shields full time Monday to Saturday
Still confused why it goes there on an evening & Sundays.  Would give people from Whitley to North Shields via Rake Lane of which a bus from. Yea the 317 goes there but do wonder if the 57/57A will go there

I highly doubt it will be but I wish they'd change the Whitley end so it runs like this:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.04253...?entry=ttu

Instead of pissing about going around the back of the Firestation and getting stuck at numerous traffic lights for absolutely no benefit. Would open links to the beach and Spanish City area aswell, plus save time. So it's win/win. The bus stop the 57/57A stops at near Sainsbury's is unused so it laying over there wouldn't be an issue if needed.

Storx



4,481
19 Dec 2023, 10:41 pm #3,497
(19 Dec 2023, 9:27 pm)mb134 Think that would require yet another PVR increase on the service? 

Given there seems to be lots of focus on improving evening services, I wonder if providing Ashington with an evening link to Cramlington would be on the cards - which of course is PVR neutral?

Not sure how they'd do it but if it's evening services I wouldn't be surprised if it's East Cramlington instead, the area has no bus service at all beyond 6pm or on a Sunday, it's not really a small area since the new housing development and the hospital aswell which is completely unserved without a quite long walk including under the pretty grim Spine Road underpass.

With all these new train connections popping up, I wouldn't be surprised if that's part - how it's done, I'm not sure tbh but I wouldn't be surprised the Hospital <> Seaton Delaval station is one of the big selling points of the Northumberland Line which is every 30 minutes during the day (19/57).
Edited 19 Dec 2023, 10:43 pm by Storx.
Storx
19 Dec 2023, 10:41 pm #3,497

(19 Dec 2023, 9:27 pm)mb134 Think that would require yet another PVR increase on the service? 

Given there seems to be lots of focus on improving evening services, I wonder if providing Ashington with an evening link to Cramlington would be on the cards - which of course is PVR neutral?

Not sure how they'd do it but if it's evening services I wouldn't be surprised if it's East Cramlington instead, the area has no bus service at all beyond 6pm or on a Sunday, it's not really a small area since the new housing development and the hospital aswell which is completely unserved without a quite long walk including under the pretty grim Spine Road underpass.

With all these new train connections popping up, I wouldn't be surprised if that's part - how it's done, I'm not sure tbh but I wouldn't be surprised the Hospital <> Seaton Delaval station is one of the big selling points of the Northumberland Line which is every 30 minutes during the day (19/57).

L469 YVK



3,544
19 Dec 2023, 10:46 pm #3,498
(19 Dec 2023, 9:27 pm)mb134 Think that would require yet another PVR increase on the service? 

Given there seems to be lots of focus on improving evening services, I wonder if providing Ashington with an evening link to Cramlington would be on the cards - which of course is PVR neutral?
Or maybe both.....Billy Mill Lane / New York to North Shields has always carried a fair amount dating back to the days of the 356 & 442 especially with the Twirlies. Plus good opportunity to capitalise on GNE's short notice cancellations.
Edited 19 Dec 2023, 10:46 pm by L469 YVK.
L469 YVK
19 Dec 2023, 10:46 pm #3,498

(19 Dec 2023, 9:27 pm)mb134 Think that would require yet another PVR increase on the service? 

Given there seems to be lots of focus on improving evening services, I wonder if providing Ashington with an evening link to Cramlington would be on the cards - which of course is PVR neutral?
Or maybe both.....Billy Mill Lane / New York to North Shields has always carried a fair amount dating back to the days of the 356 & 442 especially with the Twirlies. Plus good opportunity to capitalise on GNE's short notice cancellations.

Aaron21



775
19 Dec 2023, 10:54 pm #3,499
Isn't the 57/57A become void of solos from this change. Heard it earlier when the 57A went to Ashington full time that the 57/57A wasn't gonna be solos anymore
Aaron21
19 Dec 2023, 10:54 pm #3,499

Isn't the 57/57A become void of solos from this change. Heard it earlier when the 57A went to Ashington full time that the 57/57A wasn't gonna be solos anymore

mb134



4,131
20 Dec 2023, 8:12 am #3,500
(19 Dec 2023, 10:54 pm)Aaron21 Isn't the 57/57A become void of solos from this change. Heard it earlier when the 57A went to Ashington full time that the 57/57A wasn't gonna be solos anymore

Not yet, believe it was mentioned on here that this change is planned in the New Year. 

They received no extra Solo when the 57A was extended to Ashington, so if any are VOR (which is common...) then a full size vehicle is allocated. 

To be honest, I saw a couple of Pulsars on there on Cramlington on Saturday on my way into/back from town and they looked to have very healthy loads to the level that would probably be uncomfortable on a Solo.
mb134
20 Dec 2023, 8:12 am #3,500

(19 Dec 2023, 10:54 pm)Aaron21 Isn't the 57/57A become void of solos from this change. Heard it earlier when the 57A went to Ashington full time that the 57/57A wasn't gonna be solos anymore

Not yet, believe it was mentioned on here that this change is planned in the New Year. 

They received no extra Solo when the 57A was extended to Ashington, so if any are VOR (which is common...) then a full size vehicle is allocated. 

To be honest, I saw a couple of Pulsars on there on Cramlington on Saturday on my way into/back from town and they looked to have very healthy loads to the level that would probably be uncomfortable on a Solo.

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  • 3 Vote(s) - 4.67 Average