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Cashless buses


25/04/2018, 20:50 #1
idiot
Status: Offline Posts:716 Threads:9 Joined:Jan 2013
I think its about time we went cashless in North East! Or at least no change!

Opinions?

25/04/2018, 21:14 #2
tvd
Status: Offline Posts:38 Threads:0 Joined:Jan 2015
Cleveland Transit had exact fare buses many years ago, but I dont think it'll happen again. Cashless travel will, it's only a question of when. Personally I think we're a few years off that in our area.

25/04/2018, 21:30 #3
omnicity4659
Status: Offline Posts:1,062 Threads:1 Joined:Jan 2015
App-based innovations such as ArrivaClick are currently being rolled out across the country, marking the start of cashless travel.

Tom | omnicity4659.co.uk  


25/04/2018, 22:50 #4
Tamesider
Status: Offline Posts:207 Threads:1 Joined:Apr 2016
(25/04/2018, 20:50)idiot Wrote:  I think its about time we went cashless in North East! Or at least no change!

Opinions?

The argument is relevant everywhere but:

Cashless. Definately not. Not everyone has an iphone and those that do clearly struggle when trying to show them to drivers on my routes. Fortunately, they are in a tiny minority. There are also increasing security issues with both iphones and Contactless cards. I only see these getting worse as cyber crime grows.

No change. Better idea, but only if fares are widely known before boarding and are much simpler and in some cases "rounder" o it is easy to tender the correct amount of notes/coins.

26/04/2018, 05:38 #5
James101
Status: Offline Posts:402 Threads:1 Joined:Jan 2016
(25/04/2018, 22:50)Tamesider Wrote:  The argument is relevant everywhere but:

Cashless. Definately not. Not everyone has an iphone and those that do clearly struggle when trying to show them to drivers on my routes. Fortunately, they are in a tiny minority. There are also increasing security issues with both iphones and Contactless cards. I only see these getting worse as cyber crime grows.

No change. Better idea, but only if fares are widely known before boarding and are much simpler and in some cases "rounder" o it is easy to tender the correct amount of notes/coins.


My experiences of contactless payments have been positive, I actively choose to pay by card on the bus where I can. As I generally buy day tickets between £5-10 and my bus stop is closer than the nearest cash machine this makes the most sense. 

The amount of people that don’t have a smartphone or contactless card, and also do not qualify for a concessionary pass (also contactless) must now be tiny - considering the default for both new cards and phones (above £50) is to have this technology. 

I don’t think the fraud argument is a starter really. This ‘Which?’ article on the subject says contactless fraud accounts for just 1.9% of all credit card fraud - the monetary value of fraud is just increasing at the sameness rate as the overall spend. As the article states, 0.02% of card spending is lost to fraud. By comparison, on a £20k salary that would be £4 per year. I’m certain if I was given £20k in cash I’d loose more than £4 in dropped change, mistaken overspending, lost wallets and the threat of robbery. 


The benefits of cashless are there to be had for both the passenger and the company. London’s not perfect, but their bus system works better for cashless fares


https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/02/bri...ard-fraud/

26/04/2018, 09:31 #6
Andreos1
Status: Offline Posts:11,753 Threads:107 Joined:Feb 2013
As I have said previously, public transport needs to be accessible for all.
Whilst handling cash can be expensive and time consuming for operators, I think the clamor to go cash free may have a negative affect on some passengers.

I don't know the exact numbers, but if I remember correctly, there are approx 2m people in the UK who don't have access to a bank account.
There is also a proportion of the population who have a basic bank account, which usually gives access to a basic debit card, similar to the old Visa Electron.
In most cases, it can't be used to make contactless payments.
I witnessed this just the other week on a Northern Rail service. The conductor showed some discretion and let the passengers off with their payment.

As we know, in London, they have the 'universal' and established Oyster card. It is possible to top it up in a range of locations, in a manner of ways.

Until operators in the NE start to adopt a uniform card like Oyster - which can be topped up in a range of methods and is accepted on each operator across the region, then I don't think cash free buses are an option.
There is the PoP card of course, but operators don't tend to push this. They push their own systems.
Nexus seem to have gone quiet on the PAYG PoP card, after the initial launch and fanfare.

So whilst it might be easier for some to pay contactless, there are a fair few who won't be able to access public transport at all, unless vast improvements are made.
This post was last modified: 26/04/2018, 09:33 by Andreos1.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'

26/04/2018, 13:46 #7
BusLoverMum
Status: Offline Posts:4,527 Threads:6 Joined:Jul 2015
(25/04/2018, 20:50)idiot Wrote:  I think its about time we went cashless in North East! Or at least no change!

Opinions?

they'd need to get contactless payment working reliably in rural areas, first. Having the right change can also be an issue in rural areas.

(25/04/2018, 21:30)omnicity4659 Wrote:  App-based innovations such as ArrivaClick are currently being rolled out across the country, marking the start of cashless travel.

I assume they require the use of a phone with NFC?

I gave up on the current mobile ticketing app in general when it developed a habit of losing my tickets and needing re-syncing, but that was impossible where the mobile signal was poor.
This post was last modified: 26/04/2018, 13:49 by BusLoverMum.

26/04/2018, 21:02 #8
mb134
Status: Offline Posts:2,898 Threads:2 Joined:Apr 2014
(26/04/2018, 13:46)BusLoverMum Wrote:  I assume they require the use of a phone with NFC?

I gave up on the current mobile ticketing app in general when it developed a habit of losing my tickets and needing re-syncing, but that was impossible where the mobile signal was poor.

Don't believe Click requires NFC, as you top up funds and pay for your ticket on your device, as opposed to tapping it onto a reader.

27/04/2018, 22:41 #9
Tamesider
Status: Offline Posts:207 Threads:1 Joined:Apr 2016
(26/04/2018, 05:38)James101 Wrote:  My experiences of contactless payments have been positive, I actively choose to pay by card on the bus where I can. As I generally buy day tickets between £5-10 and my bus stop is closer than the nearest cash machine this makes the most sense. 

The amount of people that don’t have a smartphone or contactless card, and also do not qualify for a concessionary pass (also contactless) must now be tiny - considering the default for both new cards and phones (above £50) is to have this technology. 

I don’t think the fraud argument is a starter really. This ‘Which?’ article on the subject says contactless fraud accounts for just 1.9% of all credit card fraud - the monetary value of fraud is just increasing at the sameness rate as the overall spend. As the article states, 0.02% of card spending is lost to fraud. By comparison, on a £20k salary that would be £4 per year. I’m certain if I was given £20k in cash I’d loose more than £4 in dropped change, mistaken overspending, lost wallets and the threat of robbery. 


The benefits of cashless are there to be had for both the passenger and the company. London’s not perfect, but their bus system works better for cashless fares


https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/02/bri...ard-fraud/

I'm not sure the number of people without smartphones is "tiny". I think recent figures suggested 22% of the population didn't have them - and I don't have contactless. I confess, I don't know what you mean about a £50 "default", and also don't forget a concessionary pass does not mean free travel at all times. What about octagenarians who don't understand mobiles, never mind smartphones, but still have to pay to get to a peak hour medical appointment? And that's before we get on to the reliability (or lack of) phone reception, as raised by others.

28/04/2018, 00:18 #10
Jamie M
Status: Offline Posts:2,945 Threads:13 Joined:Nov 2015
(27/04/2018, 22:41)Tamesider Wrote:  I'm not sure the number of people without smartphones is "tiny". I think recent figures suggested 22% of the population didn't have them - and I don't have contactless. I confess, I don't know what you mean about a £50 "default", and also don't forget a concessionary pass does not mean free travel at all times. What about octagenarians who don't understand mobiles, never mind smartphones, but still have to pay to get to a peak hour medical appointment? And that's before we get on to the reliability (or lack of) phone reception, as raised by others.

Free travel after 930am. Before it's 50p. If the passes could be linked up, you could simply offer a scheme, like the dartford tunnel uses, where it charges to an account and you have up to 24 hours to file a payment (online or by phone). If you don't pay up, your account and thus card becomes de-activated. That's if you can't pay on the spot for contactless or mobile tickets or have a valid pass.