I have not seen many new threads on this board lately so thought I would start a new one
As we all know, Scotland go to the polls for the Independence Referendum, what is you guys opinions on this, will they vote Yes or No...
I personally think the result will be for the status quo(not Francis Rossi and his pals silly) to stay I place, but it will be quite close I reckon possibly only a few % in it , but let's say they do vote to go it alone, what does it mean to the rest of the UK, the main issues are
1. Membership of the EU, Alex Salmond seems to think that being part of the UK right now means Scotland will get automatic membership into the EU, I don't understand that, because Scotland has never been an independent member of the EU, they are there as the United Kingdom, if Scotland had to apply to the EU, Spain would resist it as they believe it would add momentum for a Basque and Catalonian breakaway from Spain l
2. Currency, they want to enter a monetary union with the Pound, Westminster says no, not a chance, could they not just form a currency, there banks already print there own Bank Notes, why not use that, call it the Scottish Pound and have it on par with Pound Sterling...Reminds me of a Michael McIntyre joke, along the lines of "do you think business news in Scotland has ever said today's exchange rate is one pound..........to the pound" would they eventually be forced into the Eurozone
3. Defence, what will happen with the military, would any potential Scottish Armed Forces inherit bases, garrisons and regiments from the British Armed Forces, there is a high possibility of them wanting Faslane closed and nukes removed, an Independent Scotland also would be interested in joining NATO, but apparently told removing our Nuclear Deterrent could hinder there application for NATO
4. Borders, while I can never see it happening on a big scale, it has been mentioned because of the Anglo-Irish opt-out of the Schengen Area, Scotland would have to negotiate an opt-out to prevent border controls going up, it has been said they would probably join the Common Travel Area with UK and R.Ireland, they would need similar immigration policies than us and Theresa May has said if Scotland adopting a looser immigration policy than Westminster then Passport Controls would be put in place...How would a border control work if it came to that, especially for Public Transport, would trains be subject be stopped at the Border, say Berwick on the ECML and Carlisle on the WCML...
Oh Well, what do you guys think...
There are so many differing opinions on this, that the whole debate could turn itself into a Chinese Parliament ?
(30 May 2014, 4:11 pm)marxistafozzski wrote [ -> ]I have not seen many new threads on this board lately so thought I would start a new one
As we all know, Scotland go to the polls for the Independence Referendum, what is you guys opinions on this, will they vote Yes or No...
I personally think the result will be for the status quo(not Francis Rossi and his pals silly) to stay I place, but it will be quite close I reckon possibly only a few % in it , but let's say they do vote to go it alone, what does it mean to the rest of the UK, the main issues are
1. Membership of the EU, Alex Salmond seems to think that being part of the UK right now means Scotland will get automatic membership into the EU, I don't understand that, because Scotland has never been an independent member of the EU, they are there as the United Kingdom, if Scotland had to apply to the EU, Spain would resist it as they believe it would add momentum for a Basque and Catalonian breakaway from Spain l
2. Currency, they want to enter a monetary union with the Pound, Westminster says no, not a chance, could they not just form a currency, there banks already print there own Bank Notes, why not use that, call it the Scottish Pound and have it on par with Pound Sterling...Reminds me of a Michael McIntyre joke, along the lines of "do you think business news in Scotland has ever said today's exchange rate is one pound..........to the pound" would they eventually be forced into the Eurozone
3. Defence, what will happen with the military, would any potential Scottish Armed Forces inherit bases, garrisons and regiments from the British Armed Forces, there is a high possibility of them wanting Faslane closed and nukes removed, an Independent Scotland also would be interested in joining NATO, but apparently told removing our Nuclear Deterrent could hinder there application for NATO
4. Borders, while I can never see it happening on a big scale, it has been mentioned because of the Anglo-Irish opt-out of the Schengen Area, Scotland would have to negotiate an opt-out to prevent border controls going up, it has been said they would probably join the Common Travel Area with UK and R.Ireland, they would need similar immigration policies than us and Theresa May has said if Scotland adopting a looser immigration policy than Westminster then Passport Controls would be put in place...How would a border control work if it came to that, especially for Public Transport, would trains be subject be stopped at the Border, say Berwick on the ECML and Carlisle on the WCML...
Oh Well, what do you guys think...
There are so many differing opinions on this, that the whole debate could turn itself into a Chinese Parliament ?
If they want to go it alone, let them get on with it.
From a personal point of view, I ain't too fussed.
It may complicate one or two things, but nothing that cant be fixed.
I have a few friends and family who live over the border, some English and some Scottish.
I also have business associates/colleagues over there - again, some are English and some Scottish.
The topic has cropped up and although a minority of them, may like the idea - not one person thinks it would work.
(30 May 2014, 4:36 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote [ -> ]If they want to go it alone, let them get on with it.
From a personal point of view, I ain't too fussed.
It may complicate one or two things, but nothing that cant be fixed.
I have a few friends and family who live over the border, some English and some Scottish.
I also have business associates/colleagues over there - again, some are English and some Scottish.
The topic has cropped up and although a minority of them, may like the idea - not one person thinks it would work.
Yeah, I get the feeling also that a lot of people can't see it working and I think Alex Salmond is kidding himself to believe it will work, there is a lot of hurdles to overcome.
If they vote in favour, then I believe they should be forced out of the Pound Sterling, as I said there already print banknotes, so use them and get on with it, they should also be made to create there defence/security infrastructure from, with them having to buy military bases and garrisons etc from the British Army and inherit nothing, just my opinion 😀
(30 May 2014, 5:04 pm)marxistafozzski wrote [ -> ]Yeah, I get the feeling also that a lot of people can't see it working and I think Alex Salmond is kidding himself to believe it will work, there is a lot of hurdles to overcome.
If they vote in favour, then I believe they should be forced out of the Pound Sterling, as I said there already print banknotes, so use them and get on with it, they should also be made to create there defence/security infrastructure from, with them having to buy military bases and garrisons etc from the British Army and inherit nothing, just my opinion ?
A lot of the army, RAF and Navy camps are where they are, for strategic reasons though.
The MOD and the UK Government need/want them in their current locations.
The likes of RAF Lossiemouth and Leuchars are positioned on the East Coast for obvious reasons. It is the same with Faslane on the Clyde and the several army camps up there too.
Quite what happens to them if Scotland gains independence will be interesting. I cant see Whitehall wanting to sell them though.
(30 May 2014, 5:29 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote [ -> ]A lot of the army, RAF and Navy camps are where they are, for strategic reasons though.
The MOD and the UK Government need/want them in their current locations.
The likes of RAF Lossiemouth and Leuchars are positioned on the East Coast for obvious reasons. It is the same with Faslane on the Clyde and the several army camps up there too.
Quite what happens to them if Scotland gains independence will be interesting. I cant see Whitehall wanting to sell them though.
Keeping strategic military installations and bases may provide the bargaining tool which allows Scotland to keep the pound and prevent stringent border controls.
(30 May 2014, 6:03 pm)AdamY wrote [ -> ]Keeping strategic military installations and bases may provide the bargaining tool which allows Scotland to keep the pound and prevent stringent border controls.
So basically saying to Mr Salmond "You want to keep the Pound, we keep the military installations" I wonder if that would include Faslane as the SNP have wanted rid of that place for years, also would inclusion into the Common Travel Area be on the table to Scotland...
I don't know a great deal about it all, apart from the slight possibility of Passport Control, would there be any effect on our region if they voted for Independence???
(30 May 2014, 6:03 pm)AdamY wrote [ -> ]Keeping strategic military installations and bases may provide the bargaining tool which allows Scotland to keep the pound and prevent stringent border controls.
We get rid of them and all of a sudden the Russians will be climbing over Hadrians Wall...
(30 May 2014, 7:04 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote [ -> ]We get rid of them and all of a sudden the Russians will be climbing over Hadrians Wall...
Whenever I think about Hadrians Wall, Blackadder Back And Forth comes to mind "There's a big ginger coming towards" "No Sir, That's the Scott and "Last One Back gets hacked to pieces by Rod Stewarts Great, Great Grandfather"...
Off topic a bit, Just out of interest, did anyone else here know Berwick supposedly remained at war with Russia from the end of the Crimean War till 1966 when a peace treaty was signed
From Wikipedia
Relations with Russia
There is an apocryphal story that Berwick is (or recently was) technically at war with Russia.[50]The story tells that since Berwick had changed hands several times, it was traditionally regarded as a special, separate entity, and some proclamations referred to "England, Scotland and the town of Berwick-upon-Tweed". One such was the declaration of the Crimean War against Russia in 1853, which Queen Victoria supposedly signed as "Victoria, Queen of Great Britain, Ireland, Berwick-upon-Tweed and all British Dominions". When the Treaty of Paris (1856) was signed to conclude the war, "Berwick-upon-Tweed" was left out. This meant that, supposedly, one of Britain's smallest towns was officially at war with one of the world's largest powers – and the conflict extended by the lack of a peace treaty for over a century.[51]
The BBC programme Nationwide investigated this story in the 1970s, and found that while Berwick was not mentioned in the Treaty of Paris, it was not mentioned in the declaration of war either. The question remained as to whether Berwick had ever been at war with Russia in the first place. The true situation is that since the Wales and Berwick Act 1746 had already made it clear that all references to England included Berwick, the town had no special status at either the start or end of the war. The grain of truth in this legend could be that some important documents from the 17th century did mention Berwick separately, but this became unnecessary after 1746.
According to a story by George Hawthorne in The Guardian of 28 December 1966, the London correspondent of Pravda visited the Mayor of Berwick, Councillor Robert Knox, and the two made a mutual declaration of peace. Knox said "Please tell the Russian people through your newspaper that they can sleep peacefully in their beds." The same story, cited to the Associated Press, appeared in The Baltimore Sun of 17 December 1966; The Washington Post of 18 December 1966; and The Christian Science Monitor of 22 December 1966. At some point in turn the real events seem to have been turned into a story of a "Soviet official" having signed a "peace treaty" with Mayor Knox; Knox's remark to the Pravda correspondent was preserved in this version.[51]
The bit I find amusing is the Mayor saying to a Parvda Hack "Tell the people of Russia they can sleep safely in there beds"
[FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY][FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY][FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY][FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY][FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY]
(30 May 2014, 6:21 pm)marxistafozzski wrote [ -> ]I don't know a great deal about it all, apart from the slight possibility of Passport Control, would there be any effect on our region if they voted for Independence???
If Border Controls commenced, public sector jobs could potentially be created here in the North East as it would need to administered as well as patrolled. I imagine both Carlisle and Berwick would see potential growth as they become legitimate 'Border Cities/Towns'.
Here are some links to articles discussing how Scottish Independence may affect the North East:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/scot...st-england [Guardian - 26th July 2013]
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3d190f96-b5dc-...abdc0.html [Financial Times - 28th March 2014]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-26784943 [BBC - 29th March 2014]
There's also a report entitled 'BORDERLANDS: CAN THE NORTH EAST AND CUMBRIA. BENEFIT FROM GREATER SCOTTISH AUTONOMY?' compiled by Prof. Keith Shaw, Prof. Johnathan Blackie, Prof. Fred Robinson and Graeme Henderson.
http://www.northeastcouncils.gov.uk/curo...asp?id=589
(30 May 2014, 8:34 pm)AdamY wrote [ -> ]If Border Controls commenced, public sector jobs could potentially be created here in the North East as it would need to administered as well as patrolled. I imagine both Carlisle and Berwick would see potential growth as they become legitimate 'Border Cities/Towns'.
Here are some links to articles discussing how Scottish Independence may affect the North East:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/scot...st-england [Guardian - 26th July 2013]
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3d190f96-b5dc-...abdc0.html [Financial Times - 28th March 2014]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-26784943 [BBC - 29th March 2014]
There's also a report entitled 'BORDERLANDS: CAN THE NORTH EAST AND CUMBRIA. BENEFIT FROM GREATER SCOTTISH AUTONOMY?' compiled by Prof. Keith Shaw, Prof. Johnathan Blackie, Prof. Fred Robinson and Graeme Henderson.
http://www.northeastcouncils.gov.uk/curo...asp?id=589
Will pick my way through that later on 😀
Here's a question, remember the Referendum held about 10 years ago for a North East Regional Assembly, it was a resounding No if I remember, if we had of said Yes, would the area now have had similar powers to what Holyrood and Cardiff Bay have today and in the event of Scottish Independence would a North East Assembly have been in a better position to do trade deals with the Scottish...
I should really do my research before I start a topic ;-) but if you don't ya learn nowt
(30 May 2014, 9:02 pm)marxistafozzski wrote [ -> ]Will pick my way through that later on ?
Here's a question, remember the Referendum held about 10 years ago for a North East Regional Assembly, it was a resounding No if I remember, if we had of said Yes, would the area now have had similar powers to what Holyrood and Cardiff Bay have today and in the event of Scottish Independence would a North East Assembly have been in a better position to do trade deals with the Scottish...
I should really do my research before I start a topic ;-) but if you don't ya learn nowt
The short answer is no. What was proposed, IIRC, was a whole lot of bureaucracy which basically absolved Whitehall from blame if things went wrong. Power over our own affairs would have been very, very limited with Whitehall having the final say on most matters. It would have been akin to a combined regional council, not a devolved parliament.
(30 May 2014, 9:13 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote [ -> ]Public Sector?
It will be whored out to the likes of Serco.
After a while, maybe. But I don't think any government would be foolish enough to 'whore out' our borders from the offset. I believe it will start off under the remit of the UK Borders Agency, then, once the dust has settled and the conclusion that an independent Scotland poses no real threat has been reached, controls will be relaxed and the responsibility contracted out to a third party.