North East Buses

547 looks very smart in the Northern Branding, hopefully some more to come in the next few weeks with more coming off the Street Shuttle in a few weeks time.

I have been meaning to mention this for a while (hopefully the timetable hasnt changed), but has anyone seen as pointless a service as the last 'normal' 21 heading North?

I was tempted to leave you to find it yourself, but after arriving on a run from Newcastle and turning around, it departs Chester le Street Black Horse and arrives at its terminus (Chester le Street Corals) approx 2mins later and heads back to the depot...

Just had a look at the new 39 timetable. And noticed there is no mention of the changes on the GNE Website.

Things to note that it's now every 10 Minutes Sunderland - Doxford Park, yet remaining every 20 mins on the section to Pennywell.

Now I know 547 has just been repainted. But I'm guessing that displaced MPDs from the Street Shuttle might end up on the 39 with Versas going on the M2 / M3 perhaps.

The drifter and saltwell park versa's are supost to be going on the washington street shuttle, this is when the 53/54 and 60 get streetlites

dunno when they are due

Yeh no other changes has being posted other than the X3/26/26a/36 and 99 changes..

seems daft
No reports for the simplicty versa's yet from the 36, 1 has being painted northen red

Just a thought and it might be way off, but I live in Washington and use the Street Shuttle services and I would say from personal opinion the M2/M3 needs bigger buses. But the W5/W6 doesn't tbh, only gets busy at peak times. And Washington normally have a Northern President or 2 on the W5/W6 anyways.

So although everyone is saying the Street Shuttle is getting the Saltwell Park/Drifter Versas, I think it may only be the Saltwell Park ones for example, with the W5/W6 staying MPD operated. With 8319 also going to Washington as a spare.

Which would then lead to the Drifters going onto the 39 once the Streetlites arrive. Hence why 547 has been painted Northern. I can't think of any other alternatives as to why GNE have done this.

Plus on top of that you have 5 spare Simplicity Versas due to the changes to the 36/36A and then you have the Street Shuttle MPD's and possibly the Doxford Clippers MPD's if what i've said above happens.

Then on top of that later in the year when the 20/56 and M1 get new buses your going have roughly about 40 Wright Solars become available for other services.

Anyway whatever happens it's certainly going to be a very interesting next couple months for us as enthusiasts and GNE.

I never use the street shuttle,so if that happens.. i wonder of the some of the exsimplicity versa's (service 36) followed by the drifter versa's when the streetlites arrive wil go on the 39?
We will have tobsee what happens when the changes happen in June.
Sure it was on here that the streetlites were due in July.

Given it was mentioned that 8294-8309 would be split between Washington and Saltmeadows, I think it's safe to rule out any of the 'Drifter' ones staying at Deptford. Most likely scenario is that 12 of those 16 will end up at Washington for the M2/M3/W5/W6 because splitting the brand between two vehicle types would be a bit daft when the likelihood of an MPD going onto an M2/M3 instead of a Versa would be very high. As such, the only vehicles I can see going on the 39 are the SimpliCity Versas that haven't yet been repainted (8320-8234) with the MPDs being used as back-ups for the 238 and the East Durham services.

My predictions.
Drifter Versas onto the 61.
4 Versas to Chester Le Street for the Lambton Worm.
Versas for the M2 / M3.
Some of the MPD displaced from the M2 / M3 to Deptford for Doxford Clipper.
547 was repainted because it was the oldest Doxford Clipper MPD.
36/36A might get MPD or Versas, but I'm not sure on that at the moment. But those are my guesses at the minute. A bit revised from what I posted on facebook as I didn't take into account of service changes.

---

Right I've cracked it.

Someone mentioned that they could be putting Versas on the 39 to increase capacity. However to increase capacity on the route doesn't necessarily mean putting bigger buses on the route. It also explains why 547 has been repainted.

The reason 547 has been repainted as it's only a 25 seater vehicle where as 603 - 606 are 29 seaters.

Currently the 39 (using 603-6) has a capacity of 87 seats an hour.
Now if they put the Drifter Versas (39 Seats) on at the exsisting frequency then that would increase to 117 seats an hour.

However GNE is increasing the frequency to every 10 minutes between Sunderland and Doxford Park. Therefore needing more buses. The 53-Plate MPDs are ideal vehicles to be moved from the Street Shuttle as they are also 29 seaters. So the capacity between Sunderland and Doxford Park is now 174 seats an hour, which means a capacity increase of around 74%.

It also means the main street in Ryhope to Tunstall Green will have 14 buses an hour to Sunderland.

Just thinking about all of these Sunderland changes, removal of a number of branded routes and introduction of the Northern styling.

Since GNE introduced branding to Sunderland, there has been (sorry if I missed any):
Black Cats
Magic Roundabout
The Empire
Doxford Clipper
Simplicity
Red Arrows (launched twice)
Fast Cats
East Durham (Peterlee ops)
Prince Bishops
Fab 56 (inc refresh)
Silver Arrows (originally Washington ops)
Laser (inc refresh)
Drifter (inc refresh)
Tyne Tees Express (Peterlee ops)
Lime (Chester & Stanley ops)
plus other temporary short term vinyls, all working out of Park Lane.
Obviously we all have our opinions about branding and whether it should be used or not etc, but taking a step back and looking at GNE operations in Sunderland, none of the brands working local services and competing directly against Stagecoach have been a major success or lasted for a significant period, excluding maybe a handful of the examples above.

The whole point of branding, is to increase loyalty and passengers numbers but for whatever reason, as passengers we have seen brands dropped, routes changed regularly, routes integrated with others, new brands introduced, fares reduced, timetables planned etc
There could be a number of reasons for the examples above, but Im not sure anyone can argue the campaign against Stagecoach has been a success.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on services in Sunderland specifically along the lines mentioned above?

Cant remember one called The Empire?

Also we had/have the:

Sunderland Connect
Thirty (Sunderland to Hartlepool)
Prince Bishop Swift (i think it was that)

I liked the Magic Roundabout when it was out

My current Fav in Sunderland is defiantly.... Fast Cats or Prince Bishops.

Worse one has to be Doxford Clipper.. only because its being the same since 2006.. only what has changed is the route on the side.

Showstopper! Thats the one I was thinking of, knew it had something to do with The Empire...

Christ how can we all forget that pink horrible thing!!

That had to be the worst branding ever... the Sunderland Empire deserved more than just some shitty stickers on a pink base.

It needed to have pics of different acts and a proper picture of the Empire

Does anyone else have any thoughts on services in Sunderland specifically along the lines mentioned above?

The Competition Commission held a hearing with Nexus on 26 July 2010.

"Nexus thought that Go-Ahead’s network was unstable, and that the reason why Go-Ahead was often changing its network was that Go-Ahead’s operating margins were significantly lower than those of the other two major operators in the area."

Source - http://www.competition-commission.org.uk...with_nexus

I think some brand changes in Sunderland have been as a direct result of competitive advances by Stagecoach. I don't believe the Black Cats brand would have been dropped, and the SimpliCity 36 introduced had Stagecoach not replaced their 7 service to Witherwack with the more frequent service 16. Stagecoach introduced their 12 in December 2006 in direct competition with the Magic Roundabout 33. GNE retaliated by increasing the frequency of 33 from every 10 minutes to every 7/8 minutes, at the expense of a reduced frequency on 42 to every 15 minutes. The 10 minute frequency was swiftly restored, but continued competition from Stagecoach 12 facilitated service changes in October 2009 which saw the Magic Roundabout brand dropped, the 42 become a free-standing route, and the increase in frequency of Laser and diverting to Silksworth.

Stagecoach have toyed with other areas in Sunderland too. They experimented with a diversion of service 20 within Pennywell to operate a circular route taking in Pennywell Shops then Prestbury Road. This trial was unsuccessful and after a few months the 20 reverted back to the terminal loop taking in Pennywell Industrial Estate.

Following the introduction of branded services in Sunderland in July 2006, Pallion was left without a single GNE service, formerly provided by 135/136. This was of no fault to GNE though. The closure of Queen Alexandra Bridge for refurbishment severely impaired access to Pallion from North Sunderland. The original Doxford Clipper was a 39/39A operating a very similar route to the former 139/140 services. In late 2006 thanks to Kick-Start funding and the re-opening of the Queen Alexandra Bridge, the Doxford Clipper was revised into a 29/39 and extended every 15 minutes from Sunderland City Centre to Royal Hospital, Pallion and North Sunderland. At the time, this was the most intensive service ever provided by GNE to Pallion, yet still a far cry from the 7/8 minute service on the Stagecoach 10/11.

In October 2009, GNE proposed changes to Black Cats and Doxford Clipper -

"The 'Kickstart' funding that we were given to
improve these services (Black Cats/Doxford Clipper) runs out in October 2009
and we need to make some changes to maintain
their viability. We must achieve a reduction in
resources and we would like your views on our
plans."

The 15 minute service from Sunderland to Pallion was reduced to half hourly on new 36A/36C. This frequency was retained through later changes in 2011 when the service became the 99, and will now sadly be mostly withdrawn except in the form peak-time trips on new 36/36A. The 99 will continue to serve Pallion, but won't serve Sunderland City Centre, with an extension to Silksworth being favoured instead. I originally had doubts the route to Silksworth would work well but following a letter published in the Sunderland Echo on 1 May, I believe it will be a well appreciated link.

Bus reinstated

THE link between Silksworth and the Royal Hospital will be reinstated from June, 2.

 The new service will be the 99 and will provide an hourly link to the hospital, the seafront and Hylton Riverside Retail Park.

 This was the result of a community initiative, therefore we would like to thank the churches, the lovely staff and customers of Peary’s Newsagents, Carrick’s staff and customers and all the residents of Silksworth who signed the petition.

 Thank you everyone who also participated in the consultation. We are also very grateful to Go North East who listened to their customers.

Miss E Clark,

Silksworth

Source - http://www.sunderlandecho.com/opinion/le...-1-5631670

Didnt know about the Nexus/Competition Commision report. Will have a good look at that.

I have actually said/thought many times that other routes essentially subsidise the routes where profit isnt as high, to ensure GNE can mantain a prescence.
If it is looking like margins are significantly lower on Sunderland routes due to low passenger numbers or significantly reduced fares, but profit is increasing regionwide, there could be some truth in my theory.

Im all for competition and making fares attractive, but not at the expense of other routes and their passengers.

GNE are obviously keen to operate in Sunderland, but at what cost? Significant upheaval on a regular basis in the chase for profit, meaning passengers cannot build loyalty to a route or the company? It seems to defeat the object.

Wasn't the old X36 - X37 also a brand? Using the ex-Orbit purple Scanias?

(26 May 2013, 7:05 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Just thinking about all of these Sunderland changes, removal of a number of branded routes and introduction of the Northern styling.

Since GNE introduced branding to Sunderland, there has been (sorry if I missed any):
Black Cats
Magic Roundabout
The Empire
Doxford Clipper
Simplicity
Red Arrows (launched twice)
Fast Cats
East Durham (Peterlee ops)
Prince Bishops
Fab 56 (inc refresh)
Silver Arrows (originally Washington ops)
Laser (inc refresh)
Drifter (inc refresh)
Tyne Tees Express (Peterlee ops)
Lime (Chester & Stanley ops)
plus other temporary short term vinyls, all working out of Park Lane.
Obviously we all have our opinions about branding and whether it should be used or not etc, but taking a step back and looking at GNE operations in Sunderland, none of the brands working local services and competing directly against Stagecoach have been a major success or lasted for a significant period, excluding maybe a handful of the examples above.

The whole point of branding, is to increase loyalty and passengers numbers but for whatever reason, as passengers we have seen brands dropped, routes changed regularly, routes integrated with others, new brands introduced, fares reduced, timetables planned etc
There could be a number of reasons for the examples above, but Im not sure anyone can argue the campaign against Stagecoach has been a success.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on services in Sunderland specifically along the lines mentioned above?

Also Cross Tyne and then the imaginatively named 'the NINE' on the purple Solars.

25/05/13


Odd workings -
- "Whey Aye Five 0" 4929 on "Lime" service 78
- "East Durham" 536 on "Drifter" service 61
- "SimpliCity" 8321 on service 99


547 has been repainted and re-branded from "Doxford Clipper" branding into "Northern" branding - a photo can be seen by clicking here.


All yellow B10s have now been branded as "The Centurion". A selection of photos can be seen below:
- 5152
- 5153
- 5155
- 5156
- 5157
- 5158
- 5166


"QuayLink" Q2 could not follow the riverside bound for Haymarket yesterday due to the set-up of the Evolution Festival. It followed the same route as it does bound for St Peter's Basin. A photo can be seen here.


Ex-"Say Yes! Now" branded 3886 has been transferred from Chester-le-Street and has been re-branded "Northern". She has been transferred to Deptford, and saw use on the X3. A photo can be seen here.


3941 has returned to service and has now been branded as "TEN", following her three-month withdrawal. A photo can be seen here.


Finally, a number of diversions took place yesterday due to the march in Newcastle. A selection of photos are displayed on the links below:
- 8289 on service X25
- 5238 on "Red Kite" service 45
- 8310 on "QuayLink" service Q1
- 3964 on "Highwayman" service 98.

If anyone wants a photo, 547 is at Park Lane now on the 39.

Mercy Pain short on a Sunday it would seem. Cobalt Clipper 5245 joining Northern sister 5274 on Coaster duties today.

Hmmm seems I was incorrect about the Doxford Clipper. It seems that it is getting Versas. Thought it would have made more sense in getting more MPDs, though then again, the Streetlites aren't here to replace the Versas from the Drifter and the Saltwell Parks to replace the ones on the Washington Street Shuttles.

Things can be quite unpredictable with GNE. Mind I don't even know the full extent of the service changes. They only seem to mention the ones North of the Wear.

(26 May 2013, 9:24 pm)GMitchelhill wrote [ -> ]Hmmm seems I was incorrect about the Doxford Clipper. It seems that it is getting Versas. Thought it would have made more sense in getting more MPDs, though then again, the Streetlites aren't here to replace the Versas from the Drifter and the Saltwell Parks to replace the ones on the Washington Street Shuttles.

Things can be quite unpredictable with GNE. Mind I don't even know the full extent of the service changes. They only seem to mention the ones North of the Wear.

So to clarify the Washington Street Shuttle is getting the Streetlites, tbh it didn't make sense having Streetlites replacing Versas on the Drifter/Saltwell Park when it comes to thinking about it.

Wait so now the street shuttle is getting the streetlites?

If so would thier be enough versa's for the 39, sure the new PVR is 7 or 8?

I highly doubt the Washington Street Shuttle will get anything brand new, nevermind a new batch of Streetlites. Go North East have said on a number of occasions that they'd be looking to put 'newer' buses on, but not brand new. I guess that's what makes the Versas look the viable option.

Tbh theres so many rumours going around, i dont know what to belive... well just have to wait for them to arrive which should be next month.

The 39 though needs better buses, people have said that for a while, even some drivers think that to.

I should have made myself a bit more clear.

The Streetlites aren't here yet to displace the Saltwell Park / Drifter Versas from their routes to the Washington Street Shuttle.

So as someone mentioned earlier, the Simplicity Versas from the 36 are probably the ones going onto the DP Clipper.

ohhh man I was just about to jump for joy at the fact the WSS was getting Streetlites instead of Versas, but unfortunately for me as a daily user of the M2/M3 looks like after a misunderstanding I will have to put up with the Versas.

Truly Gutted, Thanks for little bit of excitement I had going there Gary.

It looks like GNE won.nothing for the green bus fund

(27 May 2013, 10:33 am)Michael wrote [ -> ]It looks like GNE won.nothing for the green bus fund

I do not believe they bid for anything in the first place.

Oh right thought they might of bid