North East Buses

(06 Mar 2014, 6:52 am)aureolin wrote [ -> ]Have these been converted to single door?

Looking at photos I've previously given links to (such as this one), it looks like they have.

(05 Mar 2014, 11:38 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]Don't think there will be enough...

First one to be identified is 7484 LJ51DHP at Ashington.
6 are intended to be used on X93 I am told.

Photograph above is copyright to Alex Kennedy.

(05 Mar 2014, 11:38 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]Don't think there will be enough...

First one to be identified is 7484 LJ51DHP at Ashington.
6 are intended to be used on X93 I am told.

So if six are to be used on the X93, where will the ADL 400's go? Possibly Ashington?

Road Closure 10th March - July 2014 - A695 bridge works at Dilston, between Corbridge and Hexham
From 10th March until July 2014 the A695 at Dilston Bridge, between Corbridge and Hexham, is closed for construction. Bus services 85/X85 will be diverted and run non stop between Corbridge and Hexham Bus Station.
In order to provide a replacement service for the A695 between Corbridge and Hexham, a replacement shuttle bus runs hourly, as close as possible to the east side of the bridge, the centre of Corbridge, Hexham Bus Station. The shuttle bus runs hourly between approx 0730 and 1800 on Mondays and Saturdays.
You can download the timetable for the shuttle bus below

http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/uploadedFiles...ilston.pdf

Edit: Please note the timetable isn't even working on their site

(06 Mar 2014, 7:42 am)Tom wrote [ -> ]So if six are to be used on the X93, where will the ADL 400's go? Possibly Ashington?

The plan is that 7501-4/12/3 move back to Ashington, that was the only concrete plan. Ashington would then likely lose 6 older DDA-spec deckers to Durham to replace 7459-64.

(06 Mar 2014, 7:18 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]

Photograph above is copyright to Alex Kennedy.

An ex London B7TL will not stand a chance on the X93. GNE's ex London Volvo B7TL'S struggle badly on the X21!

(06 Mar 2014, 7:43 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote [ -> ]An ex London B7TL will not stand a chance on the X93. GNE's ex London Volvo B7TL'S struggle badly on the X21!

Could they change the final-drive ratio (or would that be a step too far)?

(06 Mar 2014, 7:50 pm)G-CPTN wrote [ -> ]Could they change the final-drive ratio (or would that be a step too far)?

With the exception of a Palatine 2, no 13 year old double deck would be able to cope with a route like the X93. If Arriva want to get some muscle on the X93, the 4 57 reg Lowlanders from Ashington will be perfect. They've seen better days but with a thorough maintenance check, they'll do just fine!

Arriva need to look at what is being used on long distance and endurance services. A 6.7l ISBE engined bus designed for yoir typical Killi to Chapel House / North Walbottle will not cope and certainly not a 13 year old ex London bus.

Arriva should've taken opportunity of Euro 5 and ordered a load of 310bhp B9TL Gemini's for the X10, X11, X15, X18, X21, X22 and X93. The only problem GNE has had with theirs has been the gearing ratios on the TTX but otherwise, they haven't done too badly and if Arriva had've bought them, they would get 5 years of good service with only the odd breakdown on the X15 / X18, and 7 years of good service on the rest mentioned with very few breakdowns.

(06 Mar 2014, 8:58 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote [ -> ]Arriva should've taken opportunity of Euro 5 and ordered a load of 310bhp B9TL Gemini's for the X10, X11, X15, X18, X21, X22 and X93. The only problem GNE has had with theirs has been the gearing ratios on the TTX but otherwise, they haven't done too badly and if Arriva had've bought them, they would get 5 years of good service with only the odd breakdown on the X15 / X18, and 7 years of good service on the rest mentioned with very few breakdowns.

And finance them how? You're talking 20+ new buses at a guess, and there's not infinite money to throw around at every problem.

(06 Mar 2014, 11:30 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]And finance them how? You're talking 20+ new buses at a guess, and there's not infinite money to throw around at every problem.

Exactly - the X93 might be in line for new vehicles next year depending how it does this summer. And as has been said, it might not be B9TLs for the X18 anyway - it might all change several times between now and the vehicles being delivered. The only reason the X21/X22 is gaining new E400s is to match the stock that is to be refurbished for the routes (which are E400s).

(06 Mar 2014, 11:30 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]And finance them how? You're talking 20+ new buses at a guess, and there's not infinite money to throw around at every problem.

Exactly, but typically too many people on here have no idea how a business works - resulting in posts just like that one about buying loads of new buses just because they might be better.

(07 Mar 2014, 4:01 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote [ -> ]Exactly, but typically too many people on here have no idea how a business works - resulting in posts just like that one about buying loads of new buses just because they might be better.

I agree with Davey Bowyer. We're talking about a major multi-national company not a skinflint backstreet operator. They 'may' be able to get new buses next year for the X93 depending how it performs this summer?! Charming! I didn't realise they were running that close to the bone! From how they performed LAST summer they'll be lucky to have any customers left. Shouldn't that be factored in when deciding what buses to put on the service?

(07 Mar 2014, 4:01 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote [ -> ]Exactly, but typically too many people on here have no idea how a business works - resulting in posts just like that one about buying loads of new buses just because they might be better.

I know how business works but you don't purchase buees designed for the city to be used on endurance and long distance services!

(07 Mar 2014, 5:57 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote [ -> ]I know how business works but you don't purchase buees designed for the city to be used on endurance and long distance services!

Have you even tried them yet? You can't say they won't work with no proof from that route.

(07 Mar 2014, 5:46 pm)Roland Pratt wrote [ -> ]They 'may' be able to get new buses next year for the X93 depending how it performs this summer?! Charming! I didn't realise they were running that close to the bone! From how they performed LAST summer they'll be lucky to have any customers left. Shouldn't that be factored in when deciding what buses to put on the service?

The X93 is a seasonal service. The revenue it takes presumably cannot be guaranteed every year (it may rain all summer this year and it could be 70% down on last year for example), so an investment would need a couple of good years to be able to to justify itself to Arriva, surely, before new stock is considered?

As far as I know, all local operating companies (ANE, ANE, ATS, AYK etc) all bid to Arriva UKBus for new buses, who then ultimately order in bulk (thus saving significant cash). Therefore, local operating companies don't have a big say in what type of new buses they get, as the order is taken on the whole of the UK and the requirements of the majority.

Example, Arriva UKBus gets 100 bids for new double deck buses from all local operators and 90 of them are for town work. ADL then say to Arriva UKBus that if they order all 100 as E400, they will get a discount of 10% say. Of course I can't see the top managers at UKBus saying that they cant agree that significant saving, because they need 10 buses for one route to be different and dictate the entire order. Its just not going to happen.

On that basis, there may be people at ANE who would love to get some B9's for the X18, X93 and so on, but the parent company is saying that ordering more E400's is a better option for the whole of the UK considered and ANE have no option but to go with it. However, may people on here still slate the decisions without actually thinking about who is actually making them.

(07 Mar 2014, 6:09 pm)BJ10VUS wrote [ -> ]Have you even tried them yet? You can't say they won't work with no proof from that route.

Well on an ISBE 6.7, all you can hear is the turbo screaming way but on a Volvo B9TL, you get that proper heavyweight diesel engine grunt that a powerful double decker should have. Don't get me wrong and I'll look at it from Blyth and Ashington's double deck operations excluding the 35, the X4, X5 and 308 can cope with a Cummins engined double decker. Any other double deck route with the exception noted above, needs a heavyweight diesel engined double decker. Why do you think GNE ordered 67 of them between 2011 and this year?

(07 Mar 2014, 6:33 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote [ -> ]The X93 is a seasonal service. The revenue it takes presumably cannot be guaranteed every year (it may rain all summer this year and it could be 70% down on last year for example), so an investment would need a couple of good years to be able to to justify itself to Arriva, surely, before new stock is considered?

As far as I know, all local operating companies (ANE, ANE, ATS, AYK etc) all bid to Arriva UKBus for new buses, who then ultimately order in bulk (thus saving significant cash). Therefore, local operating companies don't have a big say in what type of new buses they get, as the order is taken on the whole of the UK and the requirements of the majority.

Example, Arriva UKBus gets 100 bids for new double deck buses from all local operators and 90 of them are for town work. ADL then say to Arriva UKBus that if they order all 100 as E400, they will get a discount of 10% say. Of course I can't see the top managers at UKBus saying that they cant agree that significant saving, because they need 10 buses for one route to be different and dictate the entire order. Its just not going to happen.

On that basis, there may be people at ANE who would love to get some B9's for the X18, X93 and so on, but the parent company is saying that ordering more E400's is a better option for the whole of the UK considered and ANE have no option but to go with it. However, may people on here still slate the decisions without actually thinking about who is actually making them.

I'm not necessarily saying it's Mr Knox's fault. But the guys down in Luton need to look at routes on an individual basis.

(07 Mar 2014, 6:41 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote [ -> ]Well on an ISBE 6.7, all you can hear is the turbo screaming way but on a Volvo B9TL, you get that proper heavyweight diesel engine grunt that a powerful double decker should have. Don't get me wrong and I'll look at it from Blyth and Ashington's double deck operations excluding the 35, the X4, X5 and 308 can cope with a Cummins engined double decker. Any other double deck route with the exception noted above, needs a heavyweight diesel engined double decker. Why do you think GNE ordered 67 of them between 2011 and this year?

First Eastern Counties' X1 route from Lowestoft to Peterborough uses Enviro 400s - bearing in mind this route is 107 miles long, it's fair to say a bit more challenging than Go North East's 'Tyne Tees Express' and Arriva's X93.

(07 Mar 2014, 6:49 pm)BJ10VUS wrote [ -> ]First Eastern Counties' X1 route from Lowestoft to Peterborough uses Enviro 400s - bearing in mind this route is 107 miles long, it's fair to say a bit more challenging than Go North East's 'Tyne Tees Express' and Arriva's X93.

I would agree, and given those E400s replaced B9TLs....I'll say no more.

(07 Mar 2014, 5:46 pm)Roland Pratt wrote [ -> ]I agree with Davey Bowyer. We're talking about a major multi-national company not a skinflint backstreet operator. They 'may' be able to get new buses next year for the X93 depending how it performs this summer?! Charming! I didn't realise they were running that close to the bone! From how they performed LAST summer they'll be lucky to have any customers left. Shouldn't that be factored in when deciding what buses to put on the service?

By perform I'm referring to how much revenue is taken - not how th vehicles perform. If we get a summer like last year, then the likelihood of new vehicles next year is high. On the flip side, if we get a summer similar to the winter we've just had (storms and heavy downpours) then the taking won't be as high so it will have to wait another year.

(08 Mar 2014, 8:19 am)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]By perform I'm referring to how much revenue is taken - not how th vehicles perform. If we get a summer like last year, then the likelihood of new vehicles next year is high. On the flip side, if we get a summer similar to the winter we've just had (storms and heavy downpours) then the taking won't be as high so it will have to wait another year.

I know that's what you meant. If that's true that they base the decision on when they can get decent buses for the X93 on what the weather might be like this summer then it's ridiculous.

(08 Mar 2014, 1:10 pm)Roland Pratt wrote [ -> ]I know that's what you meant. If that's true that they base the decision on when they can get decent buses for the X93 on what the weather might be like this summer then it's ridiculous.

Yes - you want to order a brand new order vehicles costing £1.5million and the service runs at a lose all summer due to poor weather!? This is exactly what VolvoMarkII was talking about - some people on here don't understand how a business works. The business case for new vehicles for the X93 needs building over years due to it's seasonal state rather than just the one year the other services.

(07 Mar 2014, 6:43 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote [ -> ]I'm not necessarily saying it's Mr Knox's fault. But the guys down in Luton need to look at routes on an individual basis.

Quite embarrassing but they should have a better idea on how things run since all of the main decisions are made in Sunderland. Luton is simply where customer services is based. How Doxford Park have so little knowledge on the North East services they run does actually amaze me.

(04 Mar 2014, 9:13 am)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]They're down to go to Durham (6) and Ashington (3), though this will be dependent on the results of a trial on the X93. Withdrawn as a result will be DAF DB250's 7459-64 and Olympian 7367, Spectras 7482/3

There must be at least 11 (as originally stated) as 7484 is at Ashington and 7494 Redcar.

(08 Mar 2014, 1:15 pm)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]Yes - you want to order a brand new order vehicles costing £1.5million and the service runs at a lose all summer due to poor weather!? This is exactly what VolvoMarkII was talking about - some people on here don't understand how a business works. The business case for new vehicles for the X93 needs building over years due to it's seasonal state rather than just the one year the other services.

Exactly - the 'business case' should be based on a long term view of ridership and not be affected by what the weather might be like in one particular year. If they buy a new fleet of buses and the weather's bad the first year then it's hard luck, but its not the end of the world.
A business 'works' how you want it to work.

Whilst I can see some logic in what people are saying about the weather impacting on passenger numbers, what happens if we have 2-3 consecutive poor summers?
There will be no financial justification to purchase vehicles (using the argument put forward by others) nor any real reason to keep the service due to low numbers.
Whilst in the meantime, the kit using the route, is getting older and older, with bosses, drivers and passengers praying for a decent summer so that investment is forthcoming!

Yes, the weather needs to be taken into account, but there are many other factors involved in the purchase.

(08 Mar 2014, 2:22 pm)Roland Pratt wrote [ -> ]Exactly - the 'business case' should be based on a long term view of ridership and not be affected by what the weather might be like in one particular year. If they buy a new fleet of buses and the weather's bad the first year then it's hard luck, but its not the end of the world.
A business 'works' how you want it to work.

No, the 'business case' goes on revenue not passenger numbers. That's how it works. All you like doing is moaning about Arriva and their 'apparent' endless mistakes - end of day yes there is some mistakes but at the end of the day they know what they are doing.

(08 Mar 2014, 2:31 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote [ -> ]Whilst I can see some logic in what people are saying about the weather impacting on passenger numbers, what happens if we have 2-3 consecutive poor summers?
There will be no financial justification to purchase vehicles (using the argument put forward by others) nor any real reason to keep the service due to low numbers.
Whilst in the meantime, the kit using the route, is getting older and older, with bosses, drivers and passengers praying for a decent summer so that investment is forthcoming!

Yes, the weather needs to be taken into account, but there are many other factors involved in the purchase.

Yes, passengers numbers are taken into account - BUT you can't order buses with no profit made.

(08 Mar 2014, 2:34 pm)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]Yes, passengers numbers are taken into account - BUT you can't order buses with no profit made.

Nobody said you could.

Looking at the bigger picture, 2-3 poor summers and the vehicles on the route start struggling due to age/mileage.
Those few passengers who are braving the elements of a typical British summer are then put off doing the trip, due to the vehicles becoming more and more unreliable and not turning up.

There has to be a point (and there will be) when ANE have to plump for new/er vehicles on the route - regardless of the weather.
You have to speculate to accumulate in some situations...

(08 Mar 2014, 1:59 pm)palatine3833 wrote [ -> ]Quite embarrassing but they should have a better idea on how things run since all of the main decisions are made in Sunderland. Luton is simply where customer services is based. How Doxford Park have so little knowledge on the North East services they run does actually amaze me.

This is a great example of a common misconception amongst enthusiasts like ourselves.

Sunderland is head office for Arriva Group (Bus, Train etc) and Arriva North East (who just happen to share the building - most other regions have head office functions based at depots). Sunderland is basically the finance and legal people for the overall bus and train entity, acting on behalf of all, not just the bus. This is what causes the confusion when people then go and phone Sunderland, expecting to speak to the UK Bus MD. He isn't based there.

Decisions from Arriva UK Bus for example are based fully in Luton. That's where the likes of David Martin and Bob Holland are based. Not Sunderland. Sunderland is just the culmination of all the separate businesses, that provides the link back to DB. It has nobody there who is tied solely to Bus or Train.