(28 Dec 2014, 11:01 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Should have checked beforehand on crowds (always seems empty on telly and sure capacity is circa 35k), but that's still 32k people needing to be in the town centre, less away fans who came up on train, in coaches or in car.
Ditto those going to the Sunderland game.
Ditto those at Newcastle last year.
Triple time or not, pretty certain a profit would be made.
It doesn't have to be triple time though. Bus drivers are being recruited all the time, and there's no obligation to employ them on the same T's and C's as a driver that's been with the company since the NBC days. A non working day is only a non working day should a company stipulate it in a contract of employment. There's absolutely no obligation for a company to give an employee a day off on a bank holiday.
How to shops staff on Boxing Day? I don't think for one minute that any outlet in the Metrocentre is paying anyone triple time. Nor will the NHS be paying Doctors and Nurses that rate either.
(27 Dec 2014, 12:53 pm)John_R wrote [ -> ]The audio visual next stop announcements were working on 1427 today on the 1.
Also working on a 15xx on X1 and 1B on Sat bit disappointing that some of the names of the stops are well out of date and could have been made a little more relevant to modern users and for new drivers e.g. Shildon Hipperdrome which was demolished over 20 years ago. Because of the different directions taken after the B/A bus station the announcement after Hogans is for Toronto Lodge.also some stops that are close together have the announcement made without enough time before the stop is reached e.g Hospital to Railway Station.I wonder if this was arranged by Arriva or the Council?
Does anyone know off hand how much a single and/or return is between Darlo and Stockton on the X66? No Arriva customer services until the 5th of Jan according their social media pages. Unbelievable.
(28 Dec 2014, 2:57 pm)upt50k wrote [ -> ]Also working on a 15xx on X1 and 1B on Sat bit disappointing that some of the names of the stops are well out of date and could have been made a little more relevant to modern users and for new drivers e.g. Shildon Hipperdrome which was demolished over 20 years ago. Because of the different directions taken after the B/A bus station the announcement after Hogans is for Toronto Lodge.also some stops that are close together have the announcement made without enough time before the stop is reached e.g Hospital to Railway Station.I wonder if this was arranged by Arriva or the Council?
Some of the announcements on the Sapphire 7 are the same, especially on the weekday peak time only Framwellgate Moor - Bus Station section, Aykley Heads while the 21 has University Hospital of Durham or something like that and then has County Hospital which has been closed awhile now and the 21 says Durham Railway Station. Thing is some people even those who may not have been born may know what places were many years ago, for example on the 5/5A route if you said Dandy Cart many local people will know where that is despite it being pulled down years ago but if you said Newton Aycliffe Arms which I think it said on the service 8 timetable when it used to run round that way most people would have no idea where the hell that is.
On the 7 some of the announcements take ages to come up after passing a stop, there is a few stops down Burnhill Way which are very close together and if no-one gets on/off by the time the next announcement comes up you've past the stop.
(28 Dec 2014, 3:30 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]Does anyone know off hand how much a single and/or return is between Darlo and Stockton on the X66? No Arriva customer services until the 5th of Jan according their social media pages. Unbelievable.
single is £5.00 and return is £6.90
(28 Dec 2014, 3:44 pm)MrPottski wrote [ -> ]single is £5.00 and return is £6.90
Cheers! Didn't expect it to be that steep mind. Could get a Day Rover for the £6.90 in Tyne and Wear!
(28 Dec 2014, 3:44 pm)MrPottski wrote [ -> ]single is £5.00 and return is £6.90
Where the hell did they get that price from?
It was only £3.15 on the OK1.
Dan, I know you work hard on the news, but I've noticed a typo.
In regards to the Fleet Allocation for December 2014, - 'The fleet numbers for these vehicles are 4643-
4851 and 4655-4657.
I know we're all missing GNE's Limes, but....
Disclaimer: I am not an ANE expert, this is embarrasing...but I had to look through the fleet lists to see if there was actually a 4851 with Arriva.
(28 Dec 2014, 8:26 pm)MarcTheA4 wrote [ -> ]Dan, I know you work hard on the news, but I've noticed a typo.
In regards to the Fleet Allocation for December 2014, - 'The fleet numbers for these vehicles are 4643-4851 and 4655-4657.
I know we're all missing GNE's Limes, but....
Disclaimer: I am not an ANE expert, this is embarrasing...but I had to look through the fleet lists to see if there was actually a 4851 with Arriva.
Corrected!
I'm guilty of not proof-reading the news after I publish it!
(28 Dec 2014, 8:09 pm)Tom wrote [ -> ]Where the hell did they get that price from?
It was only £3.15 on the OK1.
Yes, but it wasn't a commercially viable service. Having said that, you can get a Arriva 1/X1 day saver (Darlo-Bishop) for only £4.20 (£4.30 in 2015), which does make the X66 look overpriced.
(28 Dec 2014, 9:20 pm)John_R wrote [ -> ]Yes, but it wasn't a commercially viable service. Having said that, you can get a Arriva 1/X1 day saver (Darlo-Bishop) for only £4.20 (£4.30 in 2015), which does make the X66 look overpriced.
It would have been, if Arriva didn't provide such strong competition at the time...
There's advantages and disadvantages of competition - the downside to competition in the OK1's case is that it was withdrawn completely and customers who used that service had to find alternative methods...
Of course, the resources were pumped into a competing service on the Tyne Valley corridor, and Arriva carry far fewer passengers now for the same reasons as Go North East did on the OK1!
(28 Dec 2014, 9:22 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]It would have been, if Arriva didn't provide such strong competition at the time...
There's advantages and disadvantages of competition - the downside to competition in the OK1's case is that it was withdrawn completely and customers who used that service had to find alternative methods...
Of course, the resources were pumped into a competing service on the Tyne Valley corridor, and Arriva carry far fewer passengers now for the same reasons as Go North East did on the OK1!
To be honest, although GNE gained nothing for this, on the whole the customers and Arriva gained a lot with new & quicker links and cheaper fares which to credit Arriva are still here 18 months after the OK1 has ended.
(28 Dec 2014, 9:30 pm)John_R wrote [ -> ]To be honest, although GNE gained nothing for this, on the whole the customers and Arriva gained a lot with new & quicker links and cheaper fares which to credit Arriva are still here 18 months after the OK1 has ended.
You've lost me... Go North East gained nothing from the demise of the OK Expressway? Of course they did!
The Tynedalexpress is much more of a commercial success than the OK Expressway ever was. Go North East are obtaining higher profit levels by using the five vehicles on the Tynedalexpress, which were previously allocated to the OK Expressway. Higher profit levels is certainly a good gain, if you ask me...
Customers travelling between Middlesbrough and Darlington certainly didn't gain anything - they're having to fork out an extra £1.85 per single now that Go North East isn't around, it would seem! Customers who had tickets only valid on Go North East services (connecting to the OK1 at Bishop Auckland) also lost out, in this situation...
(28 Dec 2014, 9:34 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]You've lost me... Go North East gained nothing from the demise of the OK Expressway? Of course they did!
The Tynedalexpress is much more of a commercial success than the OK Expressway ever was. Go North East are obtaining higher profit levels by using the five vehicles on the Tynedalexpress, which were previously allocated to the OK Expressway. Higher profit levels is certainly a good gain, if you ask me...
Customers travelling between Middlesbrough and Darlington certainly didn't gain anything - they're having to fork out an extra £1.85 per single now that Go North East isn't around, it would seem!
I meant GNE gained nothing in operating the OK1 service - I wasn't talking about how the buses were redeployed. The customers I was referring to were those between Darlington & Tow Law.
Also, Arriva didn't lower their prices during the 6 months or so the OK1 went to Boro, so Arriva haven't exploited their monopoly since then.
(28 Dec 2014, 9:22 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]It would have been, if Arriva didn't provide such strong competition at the time...
There's advantages and disadvantages of competition - the downside to competition in the OK1's case is that it was withdrawn completely and customers who used that service had to find alternative methods...
Of course, the resources were pumped into a competing service on the Tyne Valley corridor, and Arriva carry far fewer passengers now for the same reasons as Go North East did on the OK1!
Sadly the OK1 was butchered, part the problem was the lack of GNE connections - the OK1 was great if you lived on the route but if the OK1 didn't get close enough to where you live but Arriva did, you'd just use Arriva instead of forking out for an Explorer ticket you would just get an Arriva Day Ticket if Arriva went to your destination. Also Arriva fought back with the introduction of the X1 shortly after the OK1 was launched.
On the up-hand the OK1 has at least made Arriva make improvements to their existing services in that area, if it wasn't for the OK1 there probably wouldn't be an X1 now, we'd probably still have the 1/1B on a combined 30 minute frequency, same story with the X7 has meant Arriva have had to introduce the X21 from Sunderland to Peterlee through to Darlington on the 21.
(28 Dec 2014, 9:34 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]The Tynedalexpress is much more of a commercial success than the OK Expressway ever was. Go North East are obtaining higher profit levels thanks to the Tynedalexpress by using those five vehicles, which wouldn't have otherwise been the case if the operation of the OK Expressway was retained - that's what they gained from this situation.
Customers travelling between Middlesbrough and Darlington certainly didn't gain anything - they're having to fork out an extra £1.85 per single now that Go North East isn't around, it would seem!
I know it's not on the profit side of things, but I just wish GNE had continued the OK1 because of the heritage behind it. People loved the
OK name, and were thrilled when an
OK bus came along years after they'd last seen it on one!
I got on all 5 when they were at Chester for that short period after the OK1 was discontinued and they got repainted for the X84/X85 - and the amount of people who pointed out it was an
OK bus was too many to count.
It's quite clear the brand is easily recognisable - and much loved. Why they can't do this with the X21 - scrap the Pronto name (what's even behind it? - a quick route?), and revive the
OK name once again. People will love it, and no doubt some of the drivers will too!
I know I haven't mentioned her in a while, but Pat Armstrong used to work for
OK before being warped into Bishop after the takeover, and she would be proud to be driving an
OK bus.
Sorry for all the boldness!
- and for going off topic.
(28 Dec 2014, 9:43 pm)MarcTheA4 wrote [ -> ]I know it's not on the profit side of things, but I just wish GNE had continued the OK1 because of the heritage behind it. People loved the OK name, and were thrilled when an OK bus came along years after they'd last seen it on one!
I got on all 5 when they were at Chester for that short period after the OK1 was discontinued and they got repainted for the X84/X85 - and the amount of people who pointed out it was an OK bus was too many to count.
It's quite clear the brand is easily recognisable - and much loved. Why they can't do this with the X21 - scrap the Pronto name (what's even behind it? - a quick route?), and revive the OK name once again. People will love it, and no doubt some of the drivers will too!
I know I haven't mentioned her in a while, but Pat Armstrong used to work for OK before being warped into Bishop after the takeover, and she would be proud to be driving an OK bus.
Sorry for all the boldness! - and for going off topic.
There's still a couple of OK Way MPD's in Bishop Auckland on Service 18
(28 Dec 2014, 9:42 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Sadly the OK1 was butchered, part the problem was the lack of GNE connections - the OK1 was great if you lived on the route but if the OK1 didn't get close enough to where you live but Arriva did, you'd just use Arriva instead of forking out for an Explorer ticket you would just get an Arriva Day Ticket if Arriva went to your destination. Also Arriva fought back with the introduction of the X1 shortly after the OK1 was launched.
On the up-hand the OK1 has at least made Arriva make improvements to their existing services in that area, if it wasn't for the OK1 there probably wouldn't be an X1 now, we'd probably still have the 1/1B on a combined 30 minute frequency, same story with the X7 has meant Arriva have had to introduce the X21 from Sunderland to Peterlee through to Darlington on the 21.
Yes, although I previously referred to Go North East's customers losing out, I agree that the introduction of the OK1 (and hence Arriva's X1) has benefited Arriva's customers in the long run.
It's a shame that operators cannot use their own initiative to design services which benefit customers, and it takes competition for these routes to be introduced.
Passenger numbers dwindled on what were services 23/24, following the introduction and the growing success of Go North East's X7. I think Arriva took a very bold step by introducing brand new vehicles on service 23 whilst also introducing service X21, as Arriva would expect growth from the former whilst also expecting to run the latter profitably. I expect that service X21 will be on a six-month probation period before Arriva considers making any changes or cuts to the service; hopefully if any changes are made, the company thinks about how they have sandwiched the X21 in between the 22 and 23 and how this has possibly affected the success of the route.
(28 Dec 2014, 9:46 pm)John_R wrote [ -> ]There's still a couple of OK Way MPD's in Bishop Auckland on Service 18
I was talking about the OK1, not the 18.
Just to add to this comment, I think GNE did lose a lot from the OK1.
Where do I start? They had to withdraw a service - which no bus company wants to do - and lost a brand. Both pretty big things, really.
In all fairness, they didn't exactly use the 18 with the OK name, did they? They marketed it mainly with the OK1, didn't they? A little local service isn't going to get people's attention from all over the region, whilst a route between two prominent areas might.
If people hadn't been so quick to use Arriva's X1, only really because they had been in the area longer,and a form of 'trust' had been formed with the provider, and Go North East weren't the 'newbies' in the ground - it may well have survived.
The list goes on - drivers lost jobs, I believe. What would they do? Be scattered all around the region, be tranferred to Hexham for the new service? Some may have gone to work for independants, some may have transferred to nearby depots, but some would have had to give their jobs up over a 'competition'.
Fair enough it was a commerical venture, but it didn't work for Go North East, and they did lose stuff as a result.
(28 Dec 2014, 10:00 pm)MarcTheA4 wrote [ -> ]The list goes on - drivers lost jobs, I believe. What would they do? Be scattered all around the region, be tranferred to Hexham for the new service? Some may have gone to work for independants, some may have transferred to nearby depots, but some would have had to give their jobs up over a 'competition'.
Thankfully, I don't believe any drivers lost jobs over the withdrawal of the OK1 service - think a couple just moved from Crook to Chester-le-Street.
(28 Dec 2014, 9:54 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Yes, although I previously referred to Go North East's customers losing out, I agree that the introduction of the OK1 (and hence Arriva's X1) has benefited Arriva's customers in the long run.
It's a shame that operators cannot use their own initiative to design services which benefit customers, and it takes competition for these routes to be introduced.
Passenger numbers dwindled on what were services 23/24, following the introduction and the growing success of Go North East's X7. I think Arriva took a very bold step by introducing brand new vehicles on service 23 whilst also introducing service X21, as Arriva would expect growth from the former whilst also expecting to run the latter profitably. I expect that service X21 will be on a six-month probation period before Arriva considers making any changes or cuts to the service; hopefully if any changes are made, the company thinks about how they have sandwiched the X21 in between the 22 and 23 and how this has possibly affected the success of the route.
The sandwiching of the X21 between the 22/23 is an afterthought which I think could lead to it's demise, what I think Arriva should do is have two X21s an hour with one connecting from the 21 and the other from the 21A and time it so the services leave Park Lane every 10 minutes, flaws in this plan is the 21A runs just behind the X7 and it would be tricky to get the departures from Peterlee to Sunderland right due to the difference in journey times on the 22/23/X21. Another suggestion would be to retime the 21/21A so it is not running on top of the X7, problem is the 1/5/5A, 8/8A, X1 and possibly the 7 would also have to be changed to keep the 7/8 frequency between Darlington and Newton Aycliffe.
(28 Dec 2014, 10:02 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Thankfully, I don't believe any drivers lost jobs over the withdrawal of the OK1 service - think a couple just moved from Crook to Chester-le-Street.
That's very good to hear, that would have been bad for morale at Crook if the drivers had been made redundant. A small outstation losing staff over a service being withdrawn would have wrecked spirits.
(28 Dec 2014, 10:05 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]The sandwiching of the X21 between the 22/23 is an afterthought which I think could lead to it's demise, what I think Arriva should do is have two X21s an hour with one connecting from the 21 and the other from the 21A and time it so the services leave Park Lane every 10 minutes, flaws in this plan is the 21A runs just behind the X7 and it would be tricky to get the departures from Peterlee to Sunderland right due to the difference in journey times on the 22/23/X21. Another suggestion would be to retime the 21/21A so it is not running on top of the X7, problem is the 1/5/5A, 8/8A, X1 and possibly the 7 would also have to be changed to keep the 7/8 frequency between Darlington and Newton Aycliffe.
Certainly don't think that the market is big enough for six Arriva services per hour between Sunderland and Peterlee - I think that the current five is too much, if I'm honest, as Arriva already have buses leaving Sunderland empty throughout the day... Have noticed some growth on the 23 since the new buses came in, but it hasn't been substantial.
It's always going to be awkward fitting the X21 in around the streamlined 15-minute frequency of the 22/23 though - and at the moment it would seem that Arriva's only choices are to put the X21 in front of one of the 22/23 services and those services suffering as all the passengers will go for the X21 instead, or keep things as they are at present with the X21 only leaving with a couple of passengers at the most out of Sunderland...
(28 Dec 2014, 10:17 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Certainly don't think that the market is big enough for six Arriva services per hour between Sunderland and Peterlee - I think that the current five is too much, if I'm honest, as Arriva already have buses leaving Sunderland empty throughout the day... Have noticed some growth on the 23 since the new buses came in, but it hasn't been substantial.
It's always going to be awkward fitting the X21 in around the streamlined 15-minute frequency of the 22/23 though - and at the moment it would seem that Arriva's only choices are to put the X21 in front of one of the 22/23 services and those services suffering as all the passengers will go for the X21 instead, or keep things as they are at present with the X21 only leaving with a couple of passengers at the most out of Sunderland...
Yeah it is an issue that is not easily solved, leaving Peterlee for Sunderland just behind the 23 been the main one.
Mentioned this a few times but I can't stand them EcoCitys going around with the wrong destinations on the screens, often displaying 21 Peterlee instead of Peterlee for Sunderland on the ex demonstrator examples and I even saw a photo on Flickr the other day of a Peterlee bound X21 displaying the 21's Peterlee destination. Also I hate the flickering of the destination below Peterlee as one second it says for Sunderland then the next it says via Newton Aycliffe then probably a few other places before displaying for Sunderland again, it should say for Sunderland the whole time on the rest of Darlington depots buses.
(28 Dec 2014, 10:06 pm)MarcTheA4 wrote [ -> ]That's very good to hear, that would have been bad for morale at Crook if the drivers had been made redundant. A small outstation losing staff over a service being withdrawn would have wrecked spirits.
As dan pointed out, no jobs were lost when the ok1 was cut and to be honest as with most competing routes unless there is a financial benefit its usually a case of first bus to turn up the old folk will board it. So the ok1 would never survive with the X1 running 5 mins infront and the 6 running willy nilly through west auckland.
(29 Dec 2014, 10:01 am)nk55 wrote [ -> ]As dan pointed out, no jobs were lost when the ok1 was cut and to be honest as with most competing routes unless there is a financial benefit its usually a case of first bus to turn up the old folk will board it. So the ok1 would never survive with the X1 running 5 mins infront and the 6 running willy nilly through west auckland.
Didn't GNE originally try this with the 36 in North Sunderland? Ran a few mins earlier than the Stagecoach 16, yet it always seemed that the OAPs would let it go by, and jump on the 16 instead. No idea why mind, but they do the same with the 21/X2 along Durham Road. They'll happily let the X2 go, and get the 21 to Newcastle or Gateshead instead, despite the former being limited stop.
(29 Dec 2014, 10:23 am)aureolin wrote [ -> ]Didn't GNE originally try this with the 36 in North Sunderland? Ran a few mins earlier than the Stagecoach 16, yet it always seemed that the OAPs would let it go by, and jump on the 16 instead. No idea why mind, but they do the same with the 21/X2 along Durham Road. They'll happily let the X2 go, and get the 21 to Newcastle or Gateshead instead, despite the former being limited stop.
Think the difference in Sunderland is that service 16 was more established - customers knew what they were getting when they used service 16. OAPs seem a lot more reluctant to try out new services and are stuck in their ways with regards to their travel arrangements. Service X2 has been around for quite a while, so I'm not sure whether this theory really applies to the Durham Road corridor situation or not... Perhaps the power of branding and marketing comes into play here?
OK1/X1 were both new services at the time, both being treated as express services into Darlington. The above theories don't really apply here, and this is why they often got on the first bus which turned up.
(29 Dec 2014, 10:42 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]Think the difference in Sunderland is that service 16 was more established - customers knew what they were getting when they used service 16. OAPs seem a lot more reluctant to try out new serv
arrangements. Service X2 has been around for quite a while, so I'm not sure whether this theory really applies to the Durham Road corridor situation or not... Perhaps the power of branding and marketing comes into play here?
OK1/X1 were both new services at the time, both being treated as express services into Darlington. The above theories don't really apply here, and this is why they often got on the first bus which turned up.changed somewhat from its initial introduction and concept
the X1 has changed from the inital concept of an express service in that not long after its introduction it was routed through Shildon and extra stops were added at Westgate Cres and Bondgate which help revenue but reduce the express appeal and as service ! buses were ugraded and taken out of Henknowle people now use this route