(23 Nov 2014, 1:28 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]I don't think they are worn out, it's more a case of depots not looking after vehicles properly
I've been on all four of these buses on services X15/X18/X20 since the start of summer, and they've all been sound. They've provided quite a comfortable ride, very few rattles, and they've had enough power to keep to schedule... Much more for what can be said about some of the newer ADL Enviro400s at Ashington, that's for sure!
Exactly Dan! The VDL (formerly DAF) DB250 followed by the Volvo B9TL have been the two best low floor double deck chassis' made and far better than the DB300 and E400. They might be gas guzzlers but they're far more reliable than the latter 2 mentioned for interurban and long distance express work. Don't know much about the Scania N230 or the new N250 though. If Arriva had've followed in the footsteps of GNE and ordered:
- 15x Sapphire B9TLs for the X21 / X22
- 5x MAX B9TLs for the X18
- 5x MAX B9TL's for the X15
- 7453 - 56 refurbished to MAX and kept as spares for the X15 / X18 / X21 / X22.
They would've had a very strong fleet at Ashington depot with 7514 - 7521 being used for the X14 / 20 and X20. And the comment a while back about First Eastern Counties and E400s replacing the B9TLs currently being used on their X1; the E400s have had quite a few teething issues and the only reason First are shifting to ADL is because of the better fuel economy. I'm sorry but for long distance routes, fuel economy comes second and power comes first.
(23 Nov 2014, 2:47 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]Exactly Dan! The VDL (formerly DAF) DB250 followed by the Volvo B9TL have been the two best low floor double deck chassis' made and far better than the DB300 and E400. They might be gas guzzlers but they're far more reliable than the latter 2 mentioned for interurban and long distance express work. Don't know much about the Scania N230 or the new N250 though. If Arriva had've followed in the footsteps of GNE and ordered:
- 15x Sapphire B9TLs for the X21 / X22
- 5x MAX B9TLs for the X18
- 5x MAX B9TL's for the X15
- 7453 - 56 refurbished to MAX and kept as spares for the X15 / X18 / X21 / X22.
They would've had a very strong fleet at Ashington depot with 7514 - 7521 being used for the X14 / 20 and X20. And the comment a while back about First Eastern Counties and E400s replacing the B9TLs currently being used on their X1; the E400s have had quite a few teething issues and the only reason First are shifting to ADL is because of the better fuel economy. I'm sorry but for long distance routes, fuel economy comes second and power comes first.
Davey, whilst I can see where you are coming from, the last sentence would not compute in the brain of any bus company finance director.
Companies are always looking to reduce costs and as fuel is likely one of the highest costs, a small percentage improvement will be worth tens of thousands over a year.
So, unfortunately, a company will always choose efficiency unless in very extreme circumstances.
Well I'll weigh the pro's and cons of lightweight (small engined) and heavyweight (big engined) deckers up for interurban and long distance work:
Lightweight pros: Cheap to buy, good warranty, good on fuel.
Lightweight cons: Small engines that can't cope with the type of work given, rattles, more breakdowns, p***ed off passengers, poor timekeeping (excluding unforeseeable circumstances such as traffic and weather), over-reliance on turbochargers, don't hold the road as well, less custom with more people walking out Blyth and Alnwick test centres with a happy faces, don't age as well and unhappy drivers.
Heavyweight pros: Big engines that can cope with with the type of work given (not too foot to the floor though like the TTX which could do with coaches), fewer breakdowns, happy passengers, good timekeeping (excluding unforeseeable circumstances such as traffic and weather), not too reliant on turbochargers, hold the road well, fewer rattles, happy drivers and more passengers using the types of services given due to better reliability and timekeeping and they age well.
Heavyweight cons: Initially expensive to buy, warranties aren't as good, parts more expensive but needed less as in conjunction with the warranty, warranty and parts not needed too much due to good reliability, can be heavy on fuel.
(23 Nov 2014, 5:01 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]Well I'll weigh the pro's and cons of lightweight (small engined) and heavyweight (big engined) deckers up for interurban and long distance work:
Lightweight pros: Cheap to buy, good warranty, good on fuel.
Lightweight cons: Small engines that can't cope with the type of work given, rattles, more breakdowns, p***ed off passengers, poor timekeeping (excluding unforeseeable circumstances such as traffic and weather), over-reliance on turbochargers, don't hold the road as well, less custom with more people walking out Blyth and Alnwick test centres with a happy faces, don't age as well and unhappy drivers.
Heavyweight pros: Big engines that can cope with with the type of work given (not too foot to the floor though like the TTX which could do with coaches), fewer breakdowns, happy passengers, good timekeeping (excluding unforeseeable circumstances such as traffic and weather), not too reliant on turbochargers, hold the road well, fewer rattles, happy drivers and more passengers using the types of services given due to better reliability and timekeeping and they age well.
Heavyweight cons: Initially expensive to buy, warranties aren't as good, parts more expensive but needed less as in conjunction with the warranty, warranty and parts not needed too much due to good reliability, can be heavy on fuel.
No, it's not the size of the engine - it's the way the ECU is set up. As yet again, First Manchester's E400s used on their cross-county 184 service to Huddersfield improved the reliability since they replaced B9TLs on there.
Sadly everything is done on cost these days, anyway I think we should continue this discussion on a different thread as it is way off topic...
There was a Hybrid 308 Gemini on the X13 when I arrived in Newcastle around 13.45 (might have been 7801, looked like the registration could have ended in an A)
Pulsar 1501 was on the 308 from Haymarket at 13:45.
1575 broken down, at park lane interchange at present.
7441 on the X2 departed Chester le Street for Durham at 12.25.
4001 on 8/8A
1649 and 4812 on 2
4813 on 11
2807 on 1/5A
1308 on 1/5
R reg Dart on X66 alongside Pulsars.
1314 on the 56/57/57A. Was the 1640 departure from Durham.
1315 on 56/57/57A
7477 on X1
(25 Nov 2014, 7:40 am)aureolin wrote [ -> ]1315 on 56/57/57A
7477 on X1
Should be two older deckers on the X1/2 for now as 7618/20 are 'away' according to a fitter. I'm presuming it's for MAX
Maybe in Leeds having an engine change? Some of the Blyth ones have had to be done too. I don't think any refurbs have started on those yet... Though they may go straight from Leeds to Blackburn?
(25 Nov 2014, 12:16 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]Maybe in Leeds having an engine change? Some of the Blyth ones have had to be done too. I don't think any refurbs have started on those yet... Though they may go straight from Leeds to Blackburn?
Cummins and express / long distance work = No go. Not saying anymore before I get into a rant!
And put it this way:
- 6001 to 6007 (B9TL / 3y4m in service) have dealt with the X1 day in and day out and with the hilly Old Durham Road and Washington Highway well, sometimes with standing room only. Result, no engine replacements required!
- 7616 to 7627 (VDL DB300 Cummins ISBE 6.7 / 2y11m in service) hav coped OK but struggled with no hills between Newcastle and Blyth. Only mainly started dealing with express work after the 308 got B5LH's. Result, several engine replacements and rebuilds required.
(25 Nov 2014, 7:38 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]And put it this way:
- 6001 to 6007 (B9TL / 3y4m in service) have dealt with the X1 day in and day out and with the hilly Old Durham Road and Washington Highway well, sometimes with standing room only. Result, no engine replacements required!
- 7616 to 7627 (VDL DB300 Cummins ISBE 6.7 / 2y11m in service) hav coped OK but struggled with no hills between Newcastle and Blyth. Only mainly started dealing with express work after the 308 got B5LH's. Result, several engine replacements and rebuilds required.
Lets not talk about the TTX B9's that are regularly deputised with TEN branded examples, Pulsars and even B10's!
It's not all pain sailing with a bigger engined bus!
(25 Nov 2014, 8:39 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Lets not talk about the TTX B9's that are regularly deputised with TEN branded examples, Pulsars and even B10's!
It's not all pain sailing with a bigger engined bus!
Shame you don't know the reasoning behind the TTX examples being VOR; it mightn't be 'plain sailing', but I'm sure there's less problems than a light-weight vehicle would encounter on daily trips up and down the A19, that's for sure!
Oh, and Pulsars? Don't insult Davey - Go North East's are built by Scania!
They're not Pulsars:
Wright and Scania = Solar
Wright and Volvo = Eclipse
Wright and VDL (cheap, nasty and turbocharged) = Pulsar
Lowlander 7453 on Service X2. Passed through Chester-Le-Street at around 08:20 this morning.
Oddball of the day from Stockton saw Prestige 4039 dragged out of the dead row onto 15s!
Didn't know it had been in dead row!
(25 Nov 2014, 8:39 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Lets not talk about the TTX B9's that are regularly deputised with TEN branded examples, Pulsars and even B10's!
It's not all pain sailing with a bigger engined bus!
Not all of the non TTX allocations are a result of VOR many of them are due to delays on the A19 resulting in a Solar, B10 or other being used to keep the service running to timetable.
The B9's will have planned work programmed work at times requiring a replacement vehicle such as a Ten branded B9. I would therfore not assume that non TTX buses indicates problems with the TTX B9's.
(26 Nov 2014, 3:47 pm)GuyParkRoyal wrote [ -> ]Not all of the non TTX allocations are a result of VOR many of them are due to delays on the A19 resulting in a Solar, B10 or other being used to keep the service running to timetable.
The B9's will have planned work programmed work at times requiring a replacement vehicle such as a Ten branded B9. I would therfore not assume that non TTX buses indicates problems with the TTX B9's.
Not sure if that theory applies at 730am!
Allocated first thing suggests B9 unavailable, rather than wrong type spare buses fed in.
1418 on service 22 - the 0837 from Sunderland.
4658 is on X1/X2 today leaving Durham as we speak
7619 is on 64s
![[Image: 15860867245_2865754443.jpg]](https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8683/15860867245_2865754443.jpg)
Arriva 1589 Wright Streetlite Micro-Hybrid. by guyparkroyal, on Flickr