North East Buses

(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]I think first of all, I'm aware of the Renowns weren't repainted

You are therefore aware that the decision to brand these Renowns as "Centurion" was in order to save money.

(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]but it's just I think they might as well of branded the two vehicles and a full centurion fleet to match the PVR, obviously northern vehicles will appear from time to time I'm not daft but this means that many vehicles arent branded each day.

As there were discussions in regards to whether the Renowns should have been repainted into the corporate livery or just branded in order to save money, it clearly demonstrates that the 17 as a service has potential, but isn't great. Why, therefore, would Go North East repaint two double deckers into the same yellow livery as the Renowns retained from their days when used on the "Blaydon Racers" 49 service, if they were wanting to save money back then? As far as I know, we should see the start of the withdrawal of Go North East's Lolynes from next year after the Olympians have been withdrawn. The Renowns used on "Centurion" service 17 have the potential to last longer. At present, I believe (though it is to be confirmed) that there are plans to withdraw 4837-55 next year at least. As the "Centurion" branded Renowns are Euro 4, they will last longer than the Euro 2 examples within the fleet.

(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]And if as you say 5166 is a spare it should be branded or into Northern.

Fair enough.

(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]But what is the solution GNE are never going to use extra vehicles despite the fact they argueably should. My point is that customers aren't getting brand identity on the centurion service, and some other services. The 61 is another example.. The 'Drifter' 61 since Novemeber 2012 changes the drifter vehicles started interworking with the 38's meaning it was always having at least two runs an hour 'Northern' Branded. Even when the interworking stopped drifter cadets continued to see use on the 38. And then since June 2013 changes the service is never drifter branded and uses the simplicity Versa's.

Branding is a mess at GNE.

From my previous post:
'The former is being worked on at present and hopefully in a few months time, "odd workings" should be far less frequent, and if a breakdown occurs, whatever vehicle is closest can attend for one run before a proper replacement can be organised (a "Northern" branded vehicle).'

The solution will very much be a "behind the scenes" solution which, in due course, may be discussed on the public domain by one of our Go North East representatives. It goes without saying that "odd allocations" will never completely stop, but depots should become more efficient in the sense that the nearest vehicle to the breakdown will be taken to the breakdown for the driver to carry on his usual duty, and after one run, a "Northern" replacement should have arrived.

The solution would never to be increase the amount of branded spare vehicles as this would increase Go North East's overheads massively. Quite a few of the more profitable services do indeed have a spare branded vehicle (or more - there are three spares for the "Cobalt Clipper" services, 5250 and 5273 being the spare Omnicities brought in to deal with the ongoing reliability of the already branded Omnicities as well as 4911, the branded Renown).

(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]My point is that customers aren't getting brand identity on the centurion service, and some other services.

According to the allocations list, it does. On a day-to-day basis, there should only ever be two Northern branded vehicles (two of PM's Lolynes) being used on the service. Would you prefer it if two drivers were kept in the depot all day and only worked the scholar services that the 17/307 currently interwork with? Having them run off the 17/307 means that running costs will be cheaper for Go North East, and the saving can be passed onto the customer.

(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]The 61 is another example.. The 'Drifter' 61 since Novemeber 2012 changes the drifter vehicles started interworking with the 38's meaning it was always having at least two runs an hour 'Northern' Branded. Even when the interworking stopped drifter cadets continued to see use on the 38. And then since June 2013 changes the service is never drifter branded and uses the simplicity Versa's.

Again, corporate liveried vehicles appearing on branded services should not be an issue... I did feel that the "Drifter" branded Cadets appearing on the 38 was an issue, and I did complain to Go North East several times in November when these changes were put in place.
Since June, the 61 has received a temporary allocation until the Streetlites arrive at Deptford. The 36 (previously "SimpliCity"), in my opinion, did not deserve the Versas. It is perhaps for that reason why the 36 and 61 received an allocation swap.
These Versas will move over to the 39 when the Streetlites arrive at Deptford for service 60, and I believe it has also been confirmed that the 61 will be removed from the "Drifter" brand.
Would you have preferred Go North East to repaint the "SimpliCity" Versas green for 5 months and then have them repainted again so brand identity remained intact for the 61? Would this not have been a little 'pointless'?

(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]Branding is a mess at GNE.

There is room for improvement, but it certainly is not 'a mess'. It is an issue, and as far as I know, there have been discussions between management regarding branding. It is for that reason why there are plans in place.

(01 Oct 2013, 4:33 pm)Daniel wrote [ -> ]Since June, the 61 has received a temporary allocation until the Streetlites arrive at Deptford. The 36 (previously "SimpliCity"), in my opinion, did not deserve the Versas. It is perhaps for that reason why the 36 and 61 received an allocation swap.
These Versas will move over to the 39 when the Streetlites arrive at Deptford for service 60, and I believe it has also been confirmed that the 61 will be removed from the "Drifter" brand.
Would you have preferred Go North East to repaint the "SimpliCity" Versas green for 5 months and then have them repainted again so brand identity remained intact for the 61? Would this not have been a little 'pointless'?


There is room for improvement, but it certainly is not 'a mess'.

Surely it would have made more sense to leave the Versas on the 36 and the Wrights on the 61, until nearer the time. Or debrand the 61 leaflet/online. It is just bonkers to have (intentionally) allocated the wrong brand for months while still promoting it as a different brand. Especially since the only official Simplicity at the minute is the 42 which - oh, leaves from the stand right next to the 61. Brand identity for both services - kaboom.

Ditto the 39 what on earth was the point of branding the service online & on the leaflets when they were in the middle of deleting the brand on the roads? Its this kind of thing which just seems deliberately designed to undermine the branding rationale.

As for whether branding is a mess, I think it's a subjective one - I'd say it certainly is given the number of deliberate and accidental misbrands, and the random coloured half/fully debranded buses running around (though at least the latter seems to be being addressed now).

(01 Oct 2013, 5:16 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote [ -> ]Surely it would have made more sense to leave the Versas on the 36 and the Wrights on the 61, until nearer the time. Or debrand the 61 leaflet/online. It is just bonkers to have (intentionally) allocated the wrong brand for months while still promoting it as a different brand. Especially since the only official Simplicity at the minute is the 42 which - oh, leaves from the stand right next to the 61. Brand identity for both services - kaboom.

The PVR of the 36 changed when the service incurred a route and timetable change. It therefore could not carry on being allocated the Versas (PVR is higher when you include service X36, which the 36A interworks with).

(01 Oct 2013, 5:26 pm)Daniel wrote [ -> ]The PVR of the 36 changed when the service incurred a route and timetable change. It therefore could not carry on being allocated the Versas (PVR is higher when you include service X36, which the 36A interworks with).

How much did the PVR increase by? Looks like its 5 for the 36/36A/X36 combined (looks like a fairly pointless interworking - doesn't save any time), not sure what it was before?

Even if it meant a couple of Northern spares (we know they love to have them out) to top up the numbers as described on the 17 - that would be better than branding being totally wrong on another service!

(01 Oct 2013, 6:57 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote [ -> ]How much did the PVR increase by? Looks like its 5 for the 36/36A/X36 combined (looks like a fairly pointless interworking - doesn't save any time), not sure what it was before?

Is it not 6?
2 for the 36, 2 for the 36A and 2 for the X36?

(01 Oct 2013, 6:57 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote [ -> ]Even if it meant a couple of Northern spares (we know they love to have them out) to top up the numbers as described on the 17 - that would be better than branding being totally wrong on another service!

Am I mis-reading what you are saying, or..?
That is exactly what CatsFast101 is complaining about - having two Northern deckers per day out on the 17/307...

The "Centurion" branded B10s appearing on the 9 (if that is what you are complaining about in the above quote) is another matter.

(01 Oct 2013, 7:02 pm)Daniel wrote [ -> ]Is it not 6?
2 for the 36, 2 for the 36A and 2 for the X36?

Yes- sorry, must pay more attention! So increased to 6 from 5? Stick a Northern on with the Versa's for a few months and be done with it - no, lets wreck another couple of brand identities so that all of the 36s are matching red buses - seems a bit bonkers.

(01 Oct 2013, 7:02 pm)Daniel wrote [ -> ]Am I mis-reading what you are saying, or..?
That is exactly what CatsFast101 is complaining about - having two Northern deckers per day out on the 17/307...

The "Centurion" branded B10s appearing on the 9 (if that is what you are complaining about in the above quote) is another matter.

I don't have an issue with them having Northern branded spares out on any route (accidental or deliberate) - they've done the equivalent since branding started (remember the Cross Tyne 9? Always spares on there as there were only five branded buses for a larger total PVR, though that was due initially to the service being split between two depots I believe). I know that's one of the things others have complained about and its perhaps mildly disappointing but is not unreasonable.

For me the issue is when the wrong brand deliberately appears on the wrong service. So not due to the odd shortage (again, largely unavoidable) - but deliberate planned mis-branding for weeks or months on end. The Sunday stuff is a good example but Simplicity on 61 has to be the best (worst) yet. When you add the deliberate misbrands to the accidental ones, and to the Northern ones covering for brands, some services are a multicoloured mishmash. that's why I think the branding approach is a mess - and needs to be ended, or massively cut back.

Right, I really don't want to carry this on too much.

I have nothing against use of northern vehicles. But I also think a regularly having not the PVR branded isn't ideal, it means the brand is watered down slightly so to speak. Customers will see more northern than centurion! The 61 point is that for nearly a year now, seeing a drifter vehicle is as common as winning the lottery! And why not debrand the simplicity Versas? Plain purple may have been a better option. Daniel, you also seem to be missing Stagecoach's point about a temporary and permanent allocation. Debranding the 61 would be a stupid move, but not one which would impact anyone. A GNE representative also suggested 4 vehicles for the 61, when PVR Is 5. I was also wondering if the temporary allocation could be part of a marketing push by GNE? Maybe a new Drifter brand and a marketing push of the drifter services?

(01 Oct 2013, 10:00 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]Right, I really don't want to carry this on too much.

I have nothing against use of northern vehicles. But I also think a regularly having not the PVR branded isn't ideal, it means the brand is watered down slightly so to speak. Customers will see more northern than centurion!

Realistically though, it should only be two "Northern" liveried vehicles that are out, each day. The reality of the situation is something different completely, but it should only be the two Lolynes required on scholar runs that are used on the 17/307. This does water the brand identity down slightly as it happens every single day, but customers should not see more Northern than Centurion - it should be an allocation of 9 branded Renowns to 2 Lolynes, if I am correct...
Unfortunately, Percy Main have a lot of problems due to the ongoing unreliability of the Omnicities. To add to this, to aid the Omnicity repaints/rebrands, there have been a number of "Northern" Omnicities covering for those that would usually be out in service; as such, the 9 has been suffering and has received Centurion B10s on a daily basis. These issues should be resolved by next week as I believe the final Omnicity has now been repainted and returned to Percy Main.

(01 Oct 2013, 10:00 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]The 61 point is that for nearly a year now, seeing a drifter vehicle is as common as winning the lottery! And why not debrand the simplicity Versas? Plain purple may have been a better option.

Wouldn't it be rather pointless? I've quoted 'pointless repaint' twice now but you haven't responded - a few weeks ago you were complaining about the 'pointless repaints' at Percy Main. I'm led to believe this was nothing more than discussion between management (however convinced I was that it was happening, and however many times I actually brought the subject up) to get 5271 off the road. 5271, if I remember rightly, is the Omnicity that is limited to locals only before she starts experiencing problems. 5271 could therefore act as the branded spare vehicle until such a time arose that this vehicle could be fixed properly. Plans can change, and quite clearly have - clearly this decision wouldn't have been cost effective and therefore nothing more came of it.
Back to Deptford - if the "SimpliCity" brand is to be retained on these Versas for service 39, why would Go North East debrand them, when, in five months time, they're due to move over to the 39? I suspect you use the 61 quite frequently which is why you are so upset by this - I do too, but all I have heard is good things... "Look at these new purple buses on the 61!", "Ooooh.. These are much better than the old ones!", etc etc. I've known people to ditch the 61 to get the 60 because it has 'better buses' - and that's from non-enthusiasts. Of course this isn't the case at present but will be again in a month's time... Customers can easily adapt to changes which don't affect them in any way whatsoever.

(01 Oct 2013, 10:00 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]Daniel, you also seem to be missing Stagecoach's point about a temporary and permanent allocation.

What point has he made that I haven't already established in my posts?

(01 Oct 2013, 10:00 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]Debranding the 61 would be a stupid move, but not one which would impact anyone. A GNE representative also suggested 4 vehicles for the 61, when PVR Is 5. I was also wondering if the temporary allocation could be part of a marketing push by GNE? Maybe a new Drifter brand and a marketing push of the drifter services?

There have been discussions regarding the removal of the 61 from the "Drifter" brand and whether it will be reinstated as "Northern" or a new brand completely. Of course 8306-09 will be freed up when they are due for repaint soon, but the chances that they're going to go Northern is slim. I personally don't know what is happening with 8306-09 yet, just that they will remain at Deptford (whereas 8302-05 will go to CLS for 34/34A).
The temporary allocation is not a 'marketing push' at all - they'd opt for the "MetroLINK" approach if so. It was convenience to save a little bit of money and not go through with a 'pointless repaint'. If the 39 were to have received the Versas but they needed a repaint, there would have been an additional cost that the 39 would have had to bring back - a little silly, when customers can easily adapt to having the service as "SimpliCity". It's a rather appropriate brand for this service I feel, and it was one I suggested that the 39 went under quite a few months ago in the service suggestions thread.

(02 Oct 2013, 6:56 am)Daniel wrote [ -> ]Realistically though, it should only be two "Northern" liveried vehicles that are out, each day. The reality of the situation is something different completely, but it should only be the two Lolynes required on scholar runs that are used on the 17/307. This does water the brand identity down slightly as it happens every single day, but customers should not see more Northern than Centurion - it should be an allocation of 9 branded Renowns to 2 Lolynes, if I am correct...
Unfortunately, Percy Main have a lot of problems due to the ongoing unreliability of the Omnicities. To add to this, to aid the Omnicity repaints/rebrands, there have been a number of "Northern" Omnicities covering for those that would usually be out in service; as such, the 9 has been suffering and has received Centurion B10s on a daily basis. These issues should be resolved by next week as I believe the final Omnicity has now been repainted and returned to Percy Main.


Wouldn't it be rather pointless? I've quoted 'pointless repaint' twice now but you haven't responded - a few weeks ago you were complaining about the 'pointless repaints' at Percy Main. I'm led to believe this was nothing more than discussion between management (however convinced I was that it was happening, and however many times I actually brought the subject up) to get 5271 off the road. 5271, if I remember rightly, is the Omnicity that is limited to locals only before she starts experiencing problems. 5271 could therefore act as the branded spare vehicle until such a time arose that this vehicle could be fixed properly. Plans can change, and quite clearly have - clearly this decision wouldn't have been cost effective and therefore nothing more came of it.
Back to Deptford - if the "SimpliCity" brand is to be retained on these Versas for service 39, why would Go North East debrand them, when, in five months time, they're due to move over to the 39? I suspect you use the 61 quite frequently which is why you are so upset by this - I do too, but all I have heard is good things... "Look at these new purple buses on the 61!", "Ooooh.. These are much better than the old ones!", etc etc. I've known people to ditch the 61 to get the 60 because it has 'better buses' - and that's from non-enthusiasts. Of course this isn't the case at present but will be again in a month's time... Customers can easily adapt to changes which don't affect them in any way whatsoever.


What point has he made that I haven't already established in my posts?


There have been discussions regarding the removal of the 61 from the "Drifter" brand and whether it will be reinstated as "Northern" or a new brand completely. Of course 8306-09 will be freed up when they are due for repaint soon, but the chances that they're going to go Northern is slim. I personally don't know what is happening with 8306-09 yet, just that they will remain at Deptford (whereas 8302-05 will go to CLS for 34/34A).
The temporary allocation is not a 'marketing push' at all - they'd opt for the "MetroLINK" approach if so. It was convenience to save a little bit of money and not go through with a 'pointless repaint'. If the 39 were to have received the Versas but they needed a repaint, there would have been an additional cost that the 39 would have had to bring back - a little silly, when customers can easily adapt to having the service as "SimpliCity". It's a rather appropriate brand for this service I feel, and it was one I suggested that the 39 went under quite a few months ago in the service suggestions thread.

Well I think we may have to agree to disagree on this subject RE- Centurion 17.

You've picked up on one quote from me 'Pointless repaints' which was in reply to you frequently mentioning the de branding and repainting of Omnicitys- some which was just 'Pointless' hearsay and rumour from what I can gather.
Your comments are all very if this happends/ if that happens. I've never once heard the 39 to go into Simplicity brand. So IF this is the case then why didn't these to on the 39 back in June?
As it happens I don't live anywhere on the 61 route, I'm just of the opinion that the branding is a little messy. And well I agree it's been a welcome change the new buses, but in talking branding not buses. But again we may have to just agree to disagree.

You seem to be of the opinion that a temporary allocation doesn't really matter.

Well I don't understand that. The 61 is going northern but the Versa's aren't? How does that work what's the 61 getting then? Why would the temporary allocation be a marketing push- I'm not sure you've grasped the point there. I mean once StreetLites arrive, the two service could get new/newer buses with a new updated brand.

(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]Well I think we may have to agree to disagree on this subject RE- Centurion 17.

Fair enough. From the business perspective I am most certainly correct, and at the end of the day, "Centurion" service 17 isn't exactly a money-spinner, and I've given my reasoning for this in previous posts. That is why it would be illogical of Go North East to repaint two vehicles and brand them for this service.

(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]You've picked up on one quote from me 'Pointless repaints' which was in reply to you frequently mentioning the de branding and repainting of Omnicitys- some which was just 'Pointless' hearsay and rumour from what I can gather.

Or internal discussion, but okay. Plans frequently change at Go North East, and we've demonstrated that in the above scenario once more...

(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]Your comments are all very if this happends/ if that happens. I've never once heard the 39 to go into Simplicity brand. So IF this is the case then why didn't these to on the 39 back in June?

I have my sources, and if you don't want to accept the information I give - it's your loss. Quite often these plans are provisional and therefore should be taken with a pinch of salt, but if you're daft enough not to accept that..!

(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]You seem to be of the opinion that a temporary allocation doesn't really matter.

I'm not of that opinion at all. I just think there are priorities within a business, and from a money perspective, it would be daft to de-brand these buses just to brand them again later.

(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]Well I don't understand that. The 61 is going northern but the Versa's aren't? How does that work what's the 61 getting then?

There have been discussions whether the 61 should be revoked from the "Drifter" brand name and put into "Northern" or whether it should be put into a new brand name completely. The outcome, I do not know - I've not been informed of an updated plan, just that 8306-09 are to remain at Deptford after having a repaint. You don't think Go North East would have four year old buses in the corporate livery though, do you?

(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]Why would the temporary allocation be a marketing push- I'm not sure you've grasped the point there. I mean once StreetLites arrive, the two service could get new/newer buses with a new updated brand.

I interpreted your post as if it was some sort of ploy by Go North East to gain additional custom in a big re-launch of the service, following what you seemingly believe is its demise in the sense that the service has gone 5 months without being allocated a "Drifter" branded vehicle.
The "Drifter" brand will be updated slightly for the Streetlites, and Go North East will obviously have a few photoshoots prior to the launch of these vehicles to gain a bit of publicity.

5166 is a spare, but sees use daily, and you know why that is. Hint, 9.

(02 Oct 2013, 3:35 pm)Daniel wrote [ -> ]Fair enough. From the business perspective I am most certainly correct, and at the end of the day, "Centurion" service 17 isn't exactly a money-spinner, and I've given my reasoning for this in previous posts. That is why it would be illogical of Go North East to repaint two vehicles and brand them for this service.


Or internal discussion, but okay. Plans frequently change at Go North East, and we've demonstrated that in the above scenario once more...


I have my sources, and if you don't want to accept the information I give - it's your loss. Quite often these plans are provisional and therefore should be taken with a pinch of salt, but if you're daft enough not to accept that..!


I'm not of that opinion at all. I just think there are priorities within a business, and from a money perspective, it would be daft to de-brand these buses just to brand them again later.


There have been discussions whether the 61 should be revoked from the "Drifter" brand name and put into "Northern" or whether it should be put into a new brand name completely. The outcome, I do not know - I've not been informed of an updated plan, just that 8306-09 are to remain at Deptford after having a repaint. You don't think Go North East would have four year old buses in the corporate livery though, do you?


I interpreted your post as if it was some sort of ploy by Go North East to gain additional custom in a big re-launch of the service, following what you seemingly believe is its demise in the sense that the service has gone 5 months without being allocated a "Drifter" branded vehicle.
The "Drifter" brand will be updated slightly for the Streetlites, and Go North East will obviously have a few photoshoots prior to the launch of these vehicles to gain a bit of publicity.

You know what I don't think I've met such an 'old granny' ''I've got more sources than you/ I am correct'' person in my life. This whole breaking down posts and having your two Penneth in everything is quite frankly irrating and comes across bitchy. You make it sound like I have some sort personal fascination with the 61- I don't! You're an immature person and as admin of this site it's unprofessional. You've always got to be right. End of story. Well no, you're not always. I'm not denying it constantly branding vehicles isn't necessary but when has branding every been necessary?
Do I go and use the 21 because
A) I love the look of the angel buses beaming in the sunshine
B) Because my home broadbands broke
C) Because I need to get to Newcastle?
(Incase you didn't quite grasp it, the majority answer C to the above question- you may answer B but hey ho I'm sure you're right!)

Clearly you don't like the idea of a debate, and instinctively think it's argumentative and bitchy?

(02 Oct 2013, 4:06 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]You know what I don't think I've met such an 'old granny' ''I've got more sources than you/ I am correct'' person in my life.

Not once have I said that.

(02 Oct 2013, 4:06 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]You're an immature person and as admin of this site it's unprofessional.

Immaturity aside - because I'm an administrator, am I not allowed to contribute as a normal member would?

(02 Oct 2013, 4:06 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]Do I go and use the 21 because
A) I love the look of the angel buses beaming in the sunshine
B) Because my home broadbands broke
C) Because I need to get to Newcastle?
(Incase you didn't quite grasp it, the majority answer C to the above question- you may answer B but hey ho I'm sure you're right!)

Is this relevant?

(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]The 61 is going northern but the Versa's aren't? How does that work what's the 61 getting then? Why would the temporary allocation be a marketing push- I'm not sure you've grasped the point there. I mean once StreetLites arrive, the two service could get new/newer buses with a new updated brand.

Hooray! Details have finally been given to us by a Go North East representative.
http://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showth...hp?tid=491&pid=15090#pid15090

The 61 should be allocated Cadets again - no new brand, just Northern.

(02 Oct 2013, 6:41 pm)Daniel wrote [ -> ]Hooray! Details have finally been given to us by a Go North East representative.
http://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showth...hp?tid=491&pid=15090#pid15090

The 61 should be allocated Cadets again - no new brand, just Northern.

Mind i was expecting the 61 to get Versa's..


Least the 39 will get good buses, People from Pennywell should be happy only decent thing to come out of their.... haha

(02 Oct 2013, 7:06 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]Mind i was expecting the 61 to get Versa's..


Least the 39 will get good buses, People from Pennywell should be happy only decent thing to come out of their.... haha

Well I don't think even you were expecting that Daniel, so where are 8306-8309 going? I'm shocked. Total mistake, I'm sorry but why put two year old buses on to get older buses back in a few months time? Customers will complain, even the general public know the Versa's are better than the cadets. And I think we'll start to see some brands going now then and only the main routes keeping branded.

Edit: I'm commented above without reading the post in the main GNE thread, where does it suggest cadets to 61? And posting in here saying 'look at that, this is what I said' like some petulant child, proves my above points.

(02 Oct 2013, 7:43 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]Well I don't think even you were expecting that Daniel, so where are 8306-8309 going? I'm shocked. Total mistake, I'm sorry but why put two year old buses on to get older buses back in a few months time? Customers will complain, even the general public know the Versa's are better than the cadets. And I think we'll start to see some brands going now then and only the main routes keeping branded.

8306-8309 are going on the 39 along with 8320-24 - Joining the Simplicity Brand =D

(02 Oct 2013, 7:43 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]Well I don't think even you were expecting that Daniel, so where are 8306-8309 going? I'm shocked. Total mistake, I'm sorry but why put two year old buses on to get older buses back in a few months time? Customers will complain, even the general public know the Versa's are better than the cadets. And I think we'll start to see some brands going now then and only the main routes keeping branded.

Wasn't I? I've hinted enough...
8306-09 are to be branded "SimpliCity" to run alongside 8320-24 on service 39.

(02 Oct 2013, 7:46 pm)Daniel wrote [ -> ]Wasn't I? I've hinted enough...
8306-09 are to be branded "SimpliCity" to run alongside 8320-24 on service 39.

See my edit.

(02 Oct 2013, 7:55 pm)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]See my edit.

No - unfortunately we haven't had it confirmed that the (rough) allocation for the 61 will be Cadets, but I have been informed that that is the case... Similar to how I was informed of the SimpliCity plan - but whatever, take it with a pinch of salt, as with everything that is said.

I also suggest you stop making this debate so personal - there's no need for it! Christ...

Just to add to the conversation, I have added a Thread for Gold Standard in the GNE Section which also ties in with Branding. http://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showth...hp?tid=720

Just a quick question that our insiders may be able to help with.

Branding and the vinyls can cover buses these days - how does contravision or other vinyls affect a window which is used for means of escape?

Using the Omni's on the 50 as an example, the contravision /vinyl branding sweeps around the bus and continues over the window which is marked as an emergency exit.

In theory, when that window is smashed using the tungsten hammer, the contravision/vinyl will hold the glass in place and make it harder or impossible for a passenger to escape.

Not knowing the strength of contravison, will it tear when the glass is shattered and is it easily torn by a passenger trying to get out of a bus?

(08 May 2014, 4:34 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote [ -> ]Just a quick question that our insiders may be able to help with.

Branding and the vinyls can cover buses these days - how does contravision or other vinyls affect a window which is used for means of escape?

Using the Omni's on the 50 as an example, the contravision /vinyl branding sweeps around the bus and continues over the window which is marked as an emergency exit.

In theory, when that window is smashed using the tungsten hammer, the contravision/vinyl will hold the glass in place and make it harder or impossible for a passenger to escape.

Not knowing the strength of contravison, will it tear when the glass is shattered and is it easily torn by a passenger trying to get out of a bus?

A good question & one that I don't know the answer too off the top of me head, but will find out. All I will say is that I remember hearing a tale of a well known independent operator being short of a bit of glass and plated over the rear emergency exit with a bit of metal - the emergency hammer was still available as a means of escape !

I'll not be naming names !!!

(08 May 2014, 7:28 pm)busman101 wrote [ -> ]A good question & one that I don't know the answer too off the top of me head, but will find out. All I will say is that I remember hearing a tale of a well known independent operator being short of a bit of glass and plated over the rear emergency exit with a bit of metal - the emergency hammer was still available as a means of escape !

I'll not be naming names !!!

It is maybe worth looking at, before VOSA or the HSE click on...

Cant imagine a long lasting sticky material - which is designed to last for a significant period of time and go through the rigours of every day wear and tear, will be too easy to break through from the inside, when covering an emergency window.

(08 May 2014, 7:41 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote [ -> ]It is maybe worth looking at, before VOSA or the HSE click on...

Cant imagine a long lasting sticky material - which is designed to last for a significant period of time and go through the rigours of every day wear and tear, will be too easy to break through when covering an emergency window from the inside.

Looks to me that the vinyl is split so that there are gaps where the door is..?
[attachment=5461]

I can't imagine any bus operator would cover the emergency door with a vinyl so that it would be more difficult to open...

(08 May 2014, 8:11 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Looks to me that the vinyl is split so that there are gaps where the door is..?


I can't imagine any bus operator would cover the emergency door with a vinyl so that it would be more difficult to open...

[attachment=5463]
It isn't the emergency door I was referring to.
It is the other side of the bus, above the wheel arch that has an internal sticker, which indicates that the window is an emergency window and that the tungsten hammer is available for use on that specific window.

(08 May 2014, 8:40 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote [ -> ]It isn't the emergency door I was referring to.
It is the other side of the bus, above the wheel arch that an internal sticker, indicates that the window is an emergency window and that the tungsten hammer is available for use.

Not sure if this helps, but 3M Media advise against "applications that in any way restrict the safe operation of emergency window exits".

(08 May 2014, 8:52 pm)BJ10VUS wrote [ -> ]Not sure if this helps, but 3M Media advise against "applications that in any way restrict the safe operation of emergency window exits".

Cheers!
Very interesting.

(08 May 2014, 9:51 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote [ -> ]Cheers!
Very interesting.

That's why it's cut around the all the windows so that they can be broken in an emergency and the branding applied doesn't stop the glass being smashed - I'm told it makes it easier as the glass falls out easier.

They all pass their MOT every year with branding on (as they do with lots of other operators) and have done for a long time.

(09 May 2014, 5:20 pm)busman101 wrote [ -> ]That's why it's cut around the all the windows so that they can be broken in an emergency and the branding applied doesn't stop the glass being smashed - I'm told it makes it easier as the glass falls out easier.

They all pass their MOT every year with branding on (as they do with lots of other operators) and have done for a long time.

As I said initially, was just a query - but pleased adaptations have been made to take into account emergency window exits.

On the emergency door, it is obvious cuts have been made, but harder to see on an emergency window.