This got me thinking and I seen a similar thread on a different forum and it was interesting some of the results which come up. Basically the question is about where there's multiple services using a specific corridor which are really uneven resulting in massive gaps between services.
To give an example in Holywell there are 2 services in an evening heading towards Cramlington however one is at xx:25 and the other xx:28 which means there's a service 3 minutes, then 57 minutes which is probably unbeatable for 2 buses an hour between 2 points.
Is there any others about? I believe Low Fell has a bit of a problem in an evening with 3 or so services then nothing for 20 minutes and what's the highest gap which exists in a day time service where there's more than 1 bus an hour? Operators are irrelavant for this so you can't do it only Arriva when there's a GNE service inbetween doing the same route etc.
(28 Oct 2020, 10:09 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]This got me thinking and I seen a similar thread on a different forum and it was interesting some of the results which come up. Basically the question is about where there's multiple services using a specific corridor which are really uneven resulting in massive gaps between services.
To give an example in Holywell there are 2 services in an evening heading towards Cramlington however one is at xx:25 and the other xx:28 which means there's a service 3 minutes, then 57 minutes which is probably unbeatable for 2 buses an hour between 2 points.
Is there any others about? I believe Low Fell has a bit of a problem in an evening with 3 or so services then nothing for 20 minutes and what's the highest gap which exists in a day time service where there's more than 1 bus an hour? Operators are irrelavant for this so you can't do it only Arriva when there's a GNE service inbetween doing the same route etc.
The 8/78 GNE because of the interworking patterns have a 23 minute gap leaving Sunderland.
(28 Oct 2020, 10:09 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]This got me thinking and I seen a similar thread on a different forum and it was interesting some of the results which come up. Basically the question is about where there's multiple services using a specific corridor which are really uneven resulting in massive gaps between services.
To give an example in Holywell there are 2 services in an evening heading towards Cramlington however one is at xx:25 and the other xx:28 which means there's a service 3 minutes, then 57 minutes which is probably unbeatable for 2 buses an hour between 2 points.
Is there any others about? I believe Low Fell has a bit of a problem in an evening with 3 or so services then nothing for 20 minutes and what's the highest gap which exists in a day time service where there's more than 1 bus an hour? Operators are irrelavant for this so you can't do it only Arriva when there's a GNE service inbetween doing the same route etc.
The section of Durham Road between East Herrington and The Prospect Lidl (pre-COVID) had 4 buses an hour in the evening and towards Sunderland, it was xx:12 (4 - SNE), xx:16 (20 - GNE), then 26 minutes for the next one! Not as extreme as your example in Holyhead but still an uneven service considering there are 16 buses an hour during the day.
Chester's evening offer has been a bone of contention for a while.
Connecting to or from a 21 is painful.
I've been known to stay on a 21 all the way through to Durham and get a 20 from there, rather than endure a wait for the 36/71. Those who have read my thoughts on the vehicles allocated to the 20, will be aware of the torment that caused.
Obviously on a Sunday it is impossible to do get a 71, so it means going via another route (and having a valid ticket covering you for the alternative) or not bothering with the bus at all.
They seem to have improved the 78/71 evening departures from Chester towards Great Lumley. However, if you're in Great Lumley and looking to get to Chester (or beyond) on an evening, the timetables aren't the best.
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I think the only way to change stuff like this would be actual legislation on bus running times, I have a feeling most of these are due to operational convenience, the buses just happen to be in a similar place at the same time. It's not very fair on the users but the companies don't want the buses sitting round at a terminus to make running times a bit more spaced out, and I'm sure Stagecoach aren't bothered about running a few minutes ahead of a GNE service.
As a service bus driver I see it all the time, driving down a road late at night, and see another bus along the same corridor, from a rival or the same operator, pulling out from a street in front of me so we're pretty much running together.
Sometimes situations like this come about as buses are aligned into frequencies elsewhere along the route.
Back when Arriva operated the 81 to Stokesley, it ran 5 minutes ahead of the 28A, with nothing for 55 minutes towards Great Ayton.
When I queried it, they told me that the times of the 28A we're fixed by the times it operates back into Middlesbrough to fit a headway there with Service 28/29. The 81 was timed to run opposite the 28 around West Guisborough, and because of this, the fallout was the 81 and 28A ran together when they met at Great Ayton.
It's not ideal, but it made sense when it was explained.
The 64 and 50 follow each other through Durham, past the hospital, on a Sunday. Not another bus for half an hour other than the very infrequent 59.
(31 Oct 2020, 8:35 pm)BusLoverMum wrote [ -> ]The 64 and 50 follow each other through Durham, past the hospital, on a Sunday. Not another bus for half an hour other than the very infrequent 59.
The timetable of the 50 will be governed by bus station departure times in Durham and South Shields, so it’d be the 64 which would need to change (and no doubt they have some reason for the timetable being as it is)
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(29 Oct 2020, 8:10 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Sometimes situations like this come about as buses are aligned into frequencies elsewhere along the route.
Back when Arriva operated the 81 to Stokesley, it ran 5 minutes ahead of the 28A, with nothing for 55 minutes towards Great Ayton.
When I queried it, they told me that the times of the 28A we're fixed by the times it operates back into Middlesbrough to fit a headway there with Service 28/29. The 81 was timed to run opposite the 28 around West Guisborough, and because of this, the fallout was the 81 and 28A ran together when they met at Great Ayton.
It's not ideal, but it made sense when it was explained.
It’s still the same now with our 18 leaving Stokesley at xx45 (in the hours it runs), with the 28A leaving at xx46. Its limited by the connections with the 81 in Guisborough which it is timed to meet.
(29 Oct 2020, 8:10 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Sometimes situations like this come about as buses are aligned into frequencies elsewhere along the route.
Back when Arriva operated the 81 to Stokesley, it ran 5 minutes ahead of the 28A, with nothing for 55 minutes towards Great Ayton.
When I queried it, they told me that the times of the 28A we're fixed by the times it operates back into Middlesbrough to fit a headway there with Service 28/29. The 81 was timed to run opposite the 28 around West Guisborough, and because of this, the fallout was the 81 and 28A ran together when they met at Great Ayton.
It's not ideal, but it made sense when it was explained.
Sometimes, but not always.
In the case I provided, the section west of Chester impacts on the rest of the route.
The variation to the route and consolidation of daytime routes in to the 78/A ensures its timings are as they are on an evening.
I'd need to check the eastern portion (or someone else can), to see whether there's any pattern or syncing with the 4 between Woodstone Village and Shiney, with the 2 between Shiney and Sunderland or any of the local routes along Chester Road within Sunderland.
Go North East 8 and 50 is a good example:
8 towards Washington departs at xx:14 and xx:44
50 towards Washington departs at xx:18 and xx:48
Arriva on an evening between Durham - Coxhoe:
58 departs Durham at xx:10
X12 departs Durham at xx:20
(01 Nov 2020, 2:51 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ] Go North East 8 and 50 is a good example:
8 towards Washington departs at xx:14 and xx:44
50 towards Washington departs at xx:18 and xx:48
Arriva on an evening between Durham - Coxhoe:
58 departs Durham at xx:10
X12 departs Durham at xx:20
Is that from Chester?
One of the many issues with Chesters services (or at least services running through there). I did a list once after a long wait there. It will be hidden in the forum somewhere.
(01 Nov 2020, 2:51 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Go North East 8 and 50 is a good example:
8 towards Washington departs at xx:14 and xx:44
50 towards Washington departs at xx:18 and xx:48
Arriva on an evening between Durham - Coxhoe:
58 departs Durham at xx:10
X12 departs Durham at xx:20
Isn't there a 56 from Durham at xx:50? The 58 came later I think and went into the same departure slot at the Scarlet Band 58A did.
(03 Nov 2020, 6:21 am)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Isn't there a 56 from Durham at xx:50? The 58 came later I think and went into the same departure slot at the Scarlet Band 58A did.
Yup.
1850 56 to Ferryhill
1910 58 to Hartlepool
1920 X12 to Middlesbrough
1950 56 to Ferryhill
2010 58 to Station Town
2020 X12 to Middlesbrough
2050 56 to Stobb Cross
2110 58 to Station Town
2150 56 to Stobb Cross
2210 58 to Station Town
2300 56 to Stobb Cross
308 & 309 to Blyth during the evening
308 xx:12
309 xx:20
Hopefully GNE sort the 309 come the March changes.