North East Buses

I've noticed a significant increase in vehicle failures at Ashington recently, particularly on the Alnwick routes.

Just today the following failed:
7512 made it only a few trips into its 35 this morning.
7529 on the X15 around Belford.
7553 on the X18 around Amble.
7555 on the X14 at Newcastle.
7556 on the X15 at Berwick.

7511/12 appear to be increasingly unreliable, when I was last on 7511 in the summer it was ghastly. 7514 has just returned from 2 weeks off the road, before that it was struggling to make it through a day of service - indeed on Monday 4th and Tuesday 5th it was taken out of service on the same board two days running. The 64 and 15 plates (the latter batch *still* had internal Yorkshire branding last I was on one late last year) are going the same way as the rest too, indeed 7555 was restricted to the 35 for a few months last year due to overheating on anything else. The Scanias are probably best ignored, all 3 are somehow out on MAX work today but that happens about once a week at best. 7445 has made it into service a whopping 5 times since Christmas Eve, though only actually completed a full board on 3 of those.

The near constant issues with the MAX deckers means that the 14-plate E400s are getting punted onto the X15/18 etc in their place as presumably they can cope better, leaving the MAX E400s to crawl through their day on the Sapphire routes instead. 

While new vehicles are desperately needed for those routes, I can't help but think engineering standards at Ashington are also falling. The same buses breaking constantly, something being kept on the 35s for months because of overheating (here's an idea, fix it?), 5-6 year old buses unable to perform on their branded routes, all this screams of a poor attitude by the engineering staff and a "that'll do" approach, rather than fixing stuff properly first time.

Then there's the appearance of their vehicles:

• https://flic.kr/p/2koADah. "Does that bumper fit Dave?" "Aye but its the wrong colour and shape" "It's fine man, lets go for lunch".
  
• https://flic.kr/p/DZiNTW. https://flic.kr/p/2kjBhcJ. That's the same vehicle 3 years apart, the same slice through the bodywork between the decks at the rear.
  
• https://flic.kr/p/2kqdeRL. Dented, discoloured, rusting panels all the way along one side.
  

Are depot management blind? Surely, even if they don't have a budget for full repaints, they can make stuff look half presentable.

The new MD being an "experienced engineering director" evidently means sod all. I see Whitby/Redcar had 2 Streetlites on the X93 today too due to a "shortage of serviceable deckers".

(25 Jan 2021, 10:08 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I've noticed a significant increase in vehicle failures at Ashington recently, particularly on the Alnwick routes.

Just today the following failed:
7512 made it only a few trips into its 35 this morning.
7529 on the X15 around Belford.
7553 on the X18 around Amble.
7555 on the X14 at Newcastle.
7556 on the X15 at Berwick.

7511/12 appear to be increasingly unreliable, when I was last on 7511 in the summer it was ghastly. 7514 has just returned from 2 weeks off the road, before that it was struggling to make it through a day of service - indeed on Monday 4th and Tuesday 5th it was taken out of service on the same board two days running. The 64 and 15 plates (the latter batch *still* had internal Yorkshire branding last I was on one late last year) are going the same way as the rest too, indeed 7555 was restricted to the 35 for a few months last year due to overheating on anything else. The Scanias are probably best ignored, all 3 are somehow out on MAX work today but that happens about once a week at best. 7445 has made it into service a whopping 5 times since Christmas Eve, though only actually completed a full board on 3 of those.

The near constant issues with the MAX deckers means that the 14-plate E400s are getting punted onto the X15/18 etc in their place as presumably they can cope better, leaving the MAX E400s to crawl through their day on the Sapphire routes instead. 

While new vehicles are desperately needed for those routes, I can't help but think engineering standards at Ashington are also falling. The same buses breaking constantly, something being kept on the 35s for months because of overheating (here's an idea, fix it?), 5-6 year old buses unable to perform on their branded routes, all this screams of a poor attitude by the engineering staff and a "that'll do" approach, rather than fixing stuff properly first time.

Then there's the appearance of their vehicles:

• https://flic.kr/p/2koADah. "Does that bumper fit Dave?" "Aye but its the wrong colour and shape" "It's fine man, lets go for lunch".
  
• https://flic.kr/p/DZiNTW. https://flic.kr/p/2kjBhcJ. That's the same vehicle 3 years apart, the same slice through the bodywork between the decks at the rear.
  
• https://flic.kr/p/2kqdeRL. Dented, discoloured, rusting panels all the way along one side.
  

Are depot management blind? Surely, even if they don't have a budget for full repaints, they can make stuff look half presentable.

The new MD being an "experienced engineering director" evidently means sod all. I see Whitby/Redcar had 2 Streetlites on the X93 today too due to a "shortage of serviceable deckers".

Definitely an interesting discussion mind, I know I regular mention them - probably too much, but one of the Solo's has obviously had a window put out quite recently and the new one looks like it's been fitted by a 10 year old with literal gaps where they've missed the sealing which is just a mess at best and isn't straight at all looks like a quick slap it down, if you pushed the window hard you could easily put it out as it's not fitted properly. Then to add a bonus the heating was blantently broken aswell which is pleasant this time of year. Believe it was 2812.

I know there's another Solo which the door frame has corroded right through and was running in service in weeks with it not actually attached to the floor and another which has had a panel hanging off for months (believe that's finally been fixed now though).

If that's interior of the buses when it's visible I wouldn't want to know what it's like underneath where it's not visible and 2809, 2812 and 2813 are noticeable more unreliable that any other Solo in the fleet even known they've had no problems for a couple weeks and I believe are the only Solos left in the 1999 livery now - more lack of care.

Hopefully they'll spend the time in the next few weeks to improve the long going problems with Blyth aswell who've been having a lot of problems lately aswell when the timetable reductions come in for Covid.

I mean if you think that’s bad you should see other depots, I live in Darlington and friends with quite a few drivers so often am out and about with many of them, but 9 times out of 10 there’s a lot of vehicles off the road, the one that springs to mind is streetlite 1594 that’s been off the road since November

Pretty much any day that goes by in Darlington something else breaks down, I heard the other day that a driver was supposed to start at 7am and finally went on the road at 10:15 due to waiting for a bus because there was problems with quite a few of them

Eventually he had to swap over 2 buses for him to get a bus that was suitable for the route he was doing

I know Darlington even had/have a Redcar streetlite on loan because we are that short so it happens to all depots

Moral of the story is at least a bus turned up no matter what the state of it is, providing it will get you from A to B

(25 Jan 2021, 10:44 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Definitely an interesting discussion mind, I know I regular mention them - probably too much, but one of the Solo's has obviously had a window put out quite recently and the new one looks like it's been fitted by a 10 year old with literal gaps where they've missed the sealing which is just a mess at best and isn't straight at all looks like a quick slap it down, if you pushed the window hard you could easily put it out as it's not fitted properly. Then to add a bonus the heating was blantently broken aswell which is pleasant this time of year. Believe it was 2812.

Aye I didn't put anything about them into my post as I remembered it had been discussed recently, but yeah it's really not ideal. The MPDs, Scanias and older E400s really need to be put to work on something else. 

The cynic in me wonders if the seemingly patch and go approach is implemented by local management to an extent in order to force DBs hand to open the purse strings.

---

(26 Jan 2021, 12:02 am)Stuartphin1639 wrote [ -> ]I mean if you think that’s bad you should see other depots, I live in Darlington and friends with quite a few drivers so often am out and about with many of them, but 9 times out of 10 there’s a lot of vehicles off the road, the one that springs to mind is streetlite 1594 that’s been off the road since November

Pretty much any day that goes by in Darlington something else breaks down, I heard the other day that a driver was supposed to start at 7am and finally went on the road at 10:15 due to waiting for a bus because there was problems with quite a few of them

Eventually he had to swap over 2 buses for him to get a bus that was suitable for the route he was doing

I know Darlington even had/have a Redcar streetlite on loan because we are that short so it happens to all depots

Moral of the story is at least a bus turned up no matter what the state of it is, providing it will get you from A to B

Oh without a doubt there are issues elsewhere, but isn't it funny that two of the depots that seemingly have some of the worst reliability at the moment are ones that are relying on 05 plate Scanias and 2008/9 E400s to run demanding express work? 

I only mention Ashington as I've never noticed it be quite as bad as the past few months have been. I think the same buses continually being problematic is indicative of poor maintenance routines, I get it happening once or twice but when you see the same stuff fail as often as some of them do, it's stands out. For as long as I've paid attention, Durham County have always looked to be worse than Northumbria in terms of general standards so I hold the latter to a higher standard, perhaps that's why this is standing out more.

If DB were desperate, could they not do either of the following.

Option 1:
- 6x StreetDeck OM936 or Scania E400MMC for X93
- 7401-06 to Ashington for X18
- 7529-33 & 7553-56 for X14/X15 (will leave 2x spare)
- Don't know about X20?

Option 2x:
- 12x StreetDeck OM936 or Scania E400MMC for X18 & X93
- 7401-04 to Ashington for X15 (2x left)
- 7529-33 & 7553-56 for X14/X20 (2x spare)

Remaining B9TLs could then be used towards X93 extras.

DB are an absolute joke the lack of attention they pay to arriva (especially the NE) they should be forced to invest in arriva or be stripped of arriva and be banned from purchasing it with immediate effect and have all of arrivas operations handed over to each depots local authority (like Lothian is) and/or other companies willing to invest to modernise the aging fleets (such as those up here)

(25 Jan 2021, 10:08 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I've noticed a significant increase in vehicle failures at Ashington recently, particularly on the Alnwick routes.

Just today the following failed:
7512 made it only a few trips into its 35 this morning.
7529 on the X15 around Belford.
7553 on the X18 around Amble.
7555 on the X14 at Newcastle.
7556 on the X15 at Berwick.

7511/12 appear to be increasingly unreliable, when I was last on 7511 in the summer it was ghastly. 7514 has just returned from 2 weeks off the road, before that it was struggling to make it through a day of service - indeed on Monday 4th and Tuesday 5th it was taken out of service on the same board two days running. The 64 and 15 plates (the latter batch *still* had internal Yorkshire branding last I was on one late last year) are going the same way as the rest too, indeed 7555 was restricted to the 35 for a few months last year due to overheating on anything else. The Scanias are probably best ignored, all 3 are somehow out on MAX work today but that happens about once a week at best. 7445 has made it into service a whopping 5 times since Christmas Eve, though only actually completed a full board on 3 of those.

The near constant issues with the MAX deckers means that the 14-plate E400s are getting punted onto the X15/18 etc in their place as presumably they can cope better, leaving the MAX E400s to crawl through their day on the Sapphire routes instead. 

While new vehicles are desperately needed for those routes, I can't help but think engineering standards at Ashington are also falling. The same buses breaking constantly, something being kept on the 35s for months because of overheating (here's an idea, fix it?), 5-6 year old buses unable to perform on their branded routes, all this screams of a poor attitude by the engineering staff and a "that'll do" approach, rather than fixing stuff properly first time.

Then there's the appearance of their vehicles:

• https://flic.kr/p/2koADah. "Does that bumper fit Dave?" "Aye but its the wrong colour and shape" "It's fine man, lets go for lunch".
  
• https://flic.kr/p/DZiNTW. https://flic.kr/p/2kjBhcJ. That's the same vehicle 3 years apart, the same slice through the bodywork between the decks at the rear.
  
• https://flic.kr/p/2kqdeRL. Dented, discoloured, rusting panels all the way along one side.
  

Are depot management blind? Surely, even if they don't have a budget for full repaints, they can make stuff look half presentable.

The new MD being an "experienced engineering director" evidently means sod all. I see Whitby/Redcar had 2 Streetlites on the X93 today too due to a "shortage of serviceable deckers".

Thanks for using one of my photos 

(26 Jan 2021, 12:11 am)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Aye I didn't put anything about them into my post as I remembered it had been discussed recently, but yeah it's really not ideal. The MPDs, Scanias and older E400s really need to be put to work on something else. 

The cynic in me wonders if the seemingly patch and go approach is implemented by local management to an extent in order to force DBs hand to open the purse strings.

---

Oh without a doubt there are issues elsewhere, but isn't it funny that two of the depots that seemingly have some of the worst reliability at the moment are ones that are relying on 05 plate Scanias and 2008/9 E400s to run demanding express work? 

I only mention Ashington as I've never noticed it be quite as bad as the past few months have been. I think the same buses continually being problematic is indicative of poor maintenance routines, I get it happening once or twice but when you see the same stuff fail as often as some of them do, it's stands out. For as long as I've paid attention, Durham County have always looked to be worse than Northumbria in terms of general standards so I hold the latter to a higher standard, perhaps that's why this is standing out more.

I noticed it a few years back when the 57 Reg E400's used to be on the X21/X22, 9 times out 10 you wouldnt see a full allocation of 400s on there, you'd always get the renowns jumping in, and the likelyhood of it being 4510 or 4511 was very high, towards the end 4510 and 4511 were the worst 2 out of the lot,were literally falling apart, and must of had a severe leak somewhere cus they stank of damp,but were still seen as 'fit' to serve the public even after they left Newcastle/Northumberland, what i'll never fully understand is why 4512-4515 were the only ones refurbished along with the ALX300's,but ive since then found the answer, cus its Arriva,they do everything half arsed

(26 Jan 2021, 4:10 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]I noticed it a few years back when the 57 Reg E400's used to be on the X21/X22, 9 times out 10 you wouldnt see a full allocation of 400s on there, you'd always get the renowns jumping in, and the likelyhood of it being 4510 or 4511 was very high, towards the end 4510 and 4511 were the worst 2 out of the lot,were literally falling apart, and must of had a severe leak somewhere cus they stank of damp,but were still seen as 'fit' to serve the public even after they left Newcastle/Northumberland, what i'll never fully understand is why 4512-4515 were the only ones refurbished along with the ALX300's,but ive since then found the answer, cus its Arriva,they do everything half arsed

4510 and 4511 were Newcastle based if I remember correctly so couldn't have been on the X21 X22. 4501 was also refurbished. 

I believe the Renowns were refurbished for the 35 quality upgrade back in 2012/2013.

(26 Jan 2021, 6:55 pm)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]4510 and 4511 were Newcastle based if I remember correctly so couldn't have been on the X21 X22. 4501 was also refurbished. 

I believe the Renowns were refurbished for the 35 quality upgrade back in 2012/2013.

From memory 4509 stayed at Ashington so it was possibly that. Think 4513/5 did too but they were both refurbished so wouldn't have been as bad internally.

Those B10s were some of the best buses ANE have ever had mechanically, was a real blow when they went.

(26 Jan 2021, 6:55 pm)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]4510 and 4511 were Newcastle based if I remember correctly so couldn't have been on the X21 X22. 4501 was also refurbished. 

I believe the Renowns were refurbished for the 35 quality upgrade back in 2012/2013.

Yes but even if they were Newcastle based, then its still possible for them to slot on to the X21/X22 if a breakdown happened elsewhere on the route,and those were the only buses available

(26 Jan 2021, 12:11 am)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Aye I didn't put anything about them into my post as I remembered it had been discussed recently, but yeah it's really not ideal. The MPDs, Scanias and older E400s really need to be put to work on something else. 

The cynic in me wonders if the seemingly patch and go approach is implemented by local management to an extent in order to force DBs hand to open the purse strings.

Yeah definitely agreed tbh, I wonder if there's still the spat about not being allowed Max especially since Northumbria haven't repainted a single full size bus into the new livery yet and it's been out for nearly 4 year now. (308 done with the transfer).

https://bustimes.org/vehicles/191629?date=2021-01-26 - Talking about taking the piss, that would be an 'enjoyable' journey.

(26 Jan 2021, 11:50 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah definitely agreed tbh, I wonder if there's still the spat about not being allowed Max especially since Northumbria haven't repainted a single full size bus into the new livery yet and it's been out for nearly 4 year now. (308 done with the transfer).

https://bustimes.org/vehicles/191629?date=2021-01-26 - Talking about taking the piss, that would be an 'enjoyable' journey.

Aye it's very odd, and it's not as if there aren't vehicles that are in dire need of a repaint either. 

Aye I saw that, replaced 1579 which failed before it made it back to Morpeth on its first trip this morning. 7515, a MAX decker, meanwhile was going about on the 35. Looking at their fleet in general, 19 year old 7484 seems like one of their most reliable buses, think that says a lot about the state of some of the E400s.

(26 Jan 2021, 9:10 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Yes but even if they were Newcastle based, then its still possible for them to slot on to the X21/X22 if a breakdown happened elsewhere on the route,and those were the only buses available

This never happened though?

The only time I remember Jesmond providing a bus for an Ashington route, outside of the examples below, was for a StreetLite on the X15 one evening. 

They'd only step in if there's significant disruption (such as ADL deciding to do rectification work on all the E400s in one day a few years back) or if the last bus failed to turn up. That was what I was told a few years ago, so the arrangements may not be in place anymore. Even then they manage to provide something better than 2 buses out of their whole fleet.

(27 Jan 2021, 12:59 am)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]This never happened though?

The only time I remember Jesmond providing a bus for an Ashington route, outside of the examples below, was for a StreetLite on the X15 one evening. 

They'd only step in if there's significant disruption (such as ADL deciding to do rectification work on all the E400s in one day a few years back) or if the last bus failed to turn up. That was what I was told a few years ago, so the arrangements may not be in place anymore. Even then they manage to provide something better than 2 buses out of their whole fleet.

There's been a few occasions in recent years Jesmond have provided a bus for an emergency allocation, 306 Pulsars have been on the X15 at least twice and I once had 4517 on the X20 from Alnwick to Newcastle (replaced by 7416 upon arrival).

(27 Jan 2021, 11:34 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]There's been a few occasions in recent years Jesmond have provided a bus for an emergency allocation, 306 Pulsars have been on the X15 at least twice and I once had 4517 on the X20 from Alnwick to Newcastle (replaced by 7416 upon arrival).

The latter sounds like 7416 was doing 7416 things and likely failed at Haymarket on its previous trip, with the 4 hour window enough for Jesmond to get it going again. In its time at Ashington I don't think I had a single trip on it when it was working 'properly'. 

Wouldn't be surprised if the 306 Pulsars were also replacing 7416, most of the problems it had when I was on it got worse when idle, or starting back up after cutting out while idling (or not starting back up at all).

Why didn't Arriva have the foresight to slightly reduce service levels like GNE did? The situation at Jesmond is a shambles!

Whole of Arriva's operation needs ripping up and starting from scratch. Fingers crossed DB get rid and the right operators move in! Not saying GNE & Stagecoach are perfect but they're stable and not in a race to the bottom unlike Arriva.

(29 Jan 2021, 4:04 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Why didn't Arriva have the foresight to slightly reduce service levels like GNE did? The situation at Jesmond is a shambles!

Whole of Arriva's operation needs ripping up and starting from scratch. Fingers crossed DB get rid and the right operators move in! Not saying GNE & Stagecoach are perfect but they're stable and not in a race to the bottom unlike Arriva.

Quite surprised that they did not reduce their service levels a couple of weeks back - I think they are from tomorrow, but the amount of trips that has been lost over the past week has not been good, that is for sure.

(29 Jan 2021, 4:04 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Why didn't Arriva have the foresight to slightly reduce service levels like GNE did? The situation at Jesmond is a shambles!

Whole of Arriva's operation needs ripping up and starting from scratch. Fingers crossed DB get rid and the right operators move in! Not saying GNE & Stagecoach are perfect but they're stable and not in a race to the bottom unlike Arriva.

Maybe you can supply them with that crystal ball they should have used?

The changes are coming in from Sunday, but they have been in planning long before Newcastle started losing all of their journeys this week. I'm also aware the Durham County depots will follow on 14 Feb with reduced service levels too.

If only they had that crystal ball so they could have known half the depot at Newcastle would be told to self isolate because of one positive result.

You can't complete a full set of schedules in a few hours. Apparently they couldn't revert to anything they did last year on the first lockdown as the services have changed since so had to replan, schedule duties and get it all agreed with local trade unions before a date can be committed to.

Also, just to highlight - how can Arriva be accused of holding a 'Race to the bottom' when they were the only operator who actually wanted (and tried) to maintain normal service levels - but now ultimately can't. Also, Arriva were the only operator to reinstate absolutely 100% service levels EVERYWHERE in Sept. GNE didn't and neither did Stagecoach - the former having already changed service levels and the latter holding down all of the weekend frequencies.

Sometimes the comments on here show how out of touch the enthusiasts really are with how bus operators actually work.

(29 Jan 2021, 8:07 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Maybe you can supply them with that crystal ball they should have used?

The changes are coming in from Sunday, but they have been in planning long before Newcastle started losing all of their journeys this week. I'm also aware the Durham County depots will follow on 14 Feb with reduced service levels too.

If only they had that crystal ball so they could have known half the depot at Newcastle would be told to self isolate because of one positive result.

You can't complete a full set of schedules in a few hours. Apparently they couldn't revert to anything they did last year on the first lockdown as the services have changed since so had to replan, schedule duties and get it all agreed with local trade unions before a date can be committed to.

Also, just to highlight - how can Arriva be accused of holding a 'Race to the bottom' when they were the only operator who actually wanted (and tried) to maintain normal service levels - but now ultimately can't. Also, Arriva were the only operator to reinstate absolutely 100% service levels EVERYWHERE in Sept. GNE didn't and neither did Stagecoach - the former having already changed service levels and the latter holding down all of the weekend frequencies.

Sometimes the comments on here show how out of touch the enthusiasts really are with how bus operators actually work.

Well said, it's pointless though they're blinded by a fancy repaint or some gimmicky brand on the side of the bus to hide the service cuts that certain operators up here have been doing for years now.

(29 Jan 2021, 8:22 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Well said, it's pointless though they're blinded by a fancy repaint or some gimmicky brand on the side of the bus to hide the service cuts that certain operators up here have been doing for years now.

The whole point is that GNE have been prudent and acted accordingly. Although they haven't slashed services back to March / April 2020 levels, they've reduced them to give some wiggle room. Far more than fancy colours or gimmicks.

Arriva on the other hand acted too late. The odd journey here and there is acceptable in these circumstances but the extent of services that have been pulled is not good.

(29 Jan 2021, 8:07 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Also, just to highlight - how can Arriva be accused of holding a 'Race to the bottom' when they were the only operator who actually wanted (and tried) to maintain normal service levels - but now ultimately can't. Also, Arriva were the only operator to reinstate absolutely 100% service levels EVERYWHERE in Sept. GNE didn't and neither did Stagecoach - the former having already changed service levels and the latter holding down all of the weekend frequencies.

Sometimes the comments on here show how out of touch the enthusiasts really are with how bus operators actually work.

Can't say anything positive about Arriva on here, you must know that by now. 

I think it's clear I disagree with how they go about investment and fleet TLC in general (as evidenced by this thread), however their actual approach to service level is something deserving of credit. Over the 5 years I've lived up here First have had a number of network revisions, with virtually everything since 2017 just being cuts after cuts - the cited reasoning being falling passenger numbers, every time (you'd think they'd catch on). Whereas every time I go home the network is virtually unchanged, with reasonably strong passenger numbers - certainly prior to last summer I'd never noticed a drop off. If folk can rely on the bus being there, and are comfortable with the network, they will be more happy to use the bus.

I was critical of Darlington last year when they were cutting services left, right and centre due to cases, the difference here seems to be that proper measures were in place and there weren't glaring workplace hotspots (that we know of, anyway).

---

(29 Jan 2021, 8:27 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]The whole point is that GNE have been prudent and acted accordingly. Although they haven't slashed services back to March / April 2020 levels, they've reduced them to give some wiggle room. Far more than fancy colours or gimmicks.

Arriva on the other hand acted too late. The odd journey here and there is acceptable in these circumstances but the extent of services that have been pulled is not good.

Look, I don't think anyone is saying the situation with Jesmond at the moment is ideal. But you're going on here like these cases were inevitable and directly linked to Arriva not cutting services at the same time as GNE. 

I was surprised they didn't drop them down earlier, but the reasoning given by Robin Hood makes sense and is understandable.

(29 Jan 2021, 8:27 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]The whole point is that GNE have been prudent and acted accordingly. Although they haven't slashed services back to March / April 2020 levels, they've reduced them to give some wiggle room. Far more than fancy colours or gimmicks.

Arriva on the other hand acted too late. The odd journey here and there is acceptable in these circumstances but the extent of services that have been pulled is not good.

I feel GNE were helped by the fact National Express has suspended all of their services plus the scholars dupes operated on behalf of other operators freeing up drivers whereas Arriva don't have these luxuries to fall back on in regards of driver availability.

(29 Jan 2021, 8:27 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Arriva on the other hand acted too late. The odd journey here and there is acceptable in these circumstances but the extent of services that have been pulled is not good.

This paragraph is a real kick in the teeth to the guys working at Arriva in the commercial and schedules team, not to mention the operations team locally. Effectively suggesting that they acted too late suggests a sense to tardiness or lack of planning - however I know this is far from reality as I know the people doing that work.

The Operations team cannot run a bus without a driver. If drivers are being told to self isolate, they will do that that. The extent of services being pulled is the extent of drivers not available. It isn't a choice, its a requirement. Newcastle went from good to bad within 24 hours last weekend, absolutely nobody could have planned for that.

For perspective on the actual planning side of things, Arriva have 2 Network Managers (yes, just two!) for the entire network between Scarborough and Berwick. That's 2 people to basically replan every service and arrange headways and frequencies accordingly to get something sensible (these 2 people plan the changes, input the changes manually, register the changes, update the fare tables, create the local information, update destination screens and update NSA systems etc - it all runs through this tiny team). There are then another 2 people who will schedule the work and create the duties and rotas for each of the seven depots. In the background, these are also the same people are negotiating service levels with local authority leads (just 9 different authorities to have the same discussions with) and trade union reps internally across seven depots, but two different sets of pay schemes and therefore scheduling agreements to adhere to. It's a difficult job too juggle all of that normally, with a team that small.

Again, you don't know the situation or the politics that are in place - varying significantly between companies, internally. A view is simply made based on the output (or perceived lack of), which is far from reality and why I'm defending these people whom I know most of personally.

One thing I will agree on however, although not directly implied, is that Arriva have literally squeezed their local management and support functions to the bare minimum over the past 18 months and it shows when you compare reaction times now. I absolutely do not agree when it is suggested that Arriva simply haven't bothered to respond or acted too late. These guys are working 60 odd hour weeks to make up the difference compared to GNE and Stagecoach who have retained bigger local teams as part of their business plan and have the ability to repurpose very quickly.

(30 Jan 2021, 9:05 am)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]For perspective on the actual planning side of things, Arriva have 2 Network Managers (yes, just two!) for the entire network between Scarborough and Berwick. That's 2 people to basically replan every service and arrange headways and frequencies accordingly to get something sensible (these 2 people plan the changes, input the changes manually, register the changes, update the fare tables, create the local information, update destination screens and update NSA systems etc - it all runs through this tiny team). There are then another 2 people who will schedule the work and create the duties and rotas for each of the seven depots. In the background, these are also the same people are negotiating service levels with local authority leads (just 9 different authorities to have the same discussions with) and trade union reps internally across seven depots, but two different sets of pay schemes and therefore scheduling agreements to adhere to. It's a difficult job too juggle all of that normally, with a team that small.

Again, you don't know the situation or the politics that are in place - varying significantly between companies, internally. A view is simply made based on the output (or perceived lack of), which is far from reality and why I'm defending these people whom I know most of personally.

One thing I will agree on however, although not directly implied, is that Arriva have literally squeezed their local management and support functions to the bare minimum over the past 18 months and it shows when you compare reaction times now. I absolutely do not agree when it is suggested that Arriva simply haven't bothered to respond or acted too late. These guys are working 60 odd hour weeks to make up the difference compared to GNE and Stagecoach who have retained bigger local teams as part of their business plan and have the ability to repurpose very quickly.

There lies the problem! It's not the frontline staff or local management to blame, it's the simple fact that Arriva are being run on a shoestring from the top.

(30 Jan 2021, 9:05 am)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]This paragraph is a real kick in the teeth to the guys working at Arriva in the commercial and schedules team, not to mention the operations team locally. Effectively suggesting that they acted too late suggests a sense to tardiness or lack of planning - however I know this is far from reality as I know the people doing that work.

The Operations team cannot run a bus without a driver. If drivers are being told to self isolate, they will do that that. The extent of services being pulled is the extent of drivers not available. It isn't a choice, its a requirement. Newcastle went from good to bad within 24 hours last weekend, absolutely nobody could have planned for that.

For perspective on the actual planning side of things, Arriva have 2 Network Managers (yes, just two!) for the entire network between Scarborough and Berwick. That's 2 people to basically replan every service and arrange headways and frequencies accordingly to get something sensible (these 2 people plan the changes, input the changes manually, register the changes, update the fare tables, create the local information, update destination screens and update NSA systems etc - it all runs through this tiny team). There are then another 2 people who will schedule the work and create the duties and rotas for each of the seven depots. In the background, these are also the same people are negotiating service levels with local authority leads (just 9 different authorities to have the same discussions with) and trade union reps internally across seven depots, but two different sets of pay schemes and therefore scheduling agreements to adhere to. It's a difficult job too juggle all of that normally, with a team that small.

Again, you don't know the situation or the politics that are in place - varying significantly between companies, internally. A view is simply made based on the output (or perceived lack of), which is far from reality and why I'm defending these people whom I know most of personally.

One thing I will agree on however, although not directly implied, is that Arriva have literally squeezed their local management and support functions to the bare minimum over the past 18 months and it shows when you compare reaction times now. I absolutely do not agree when it is suggested that Arriva simply haven't bothered to respond or acted too late. These guys are working 60 odd hour weeks to make up the difference compared to GNE and Stagecoach who have retained bigger local teams as part of their business plan and have the ability to repurpose very quickly.

Go North East’s commercial team isn’t much bigger (their entire network is planned by one person, not two, but there is a greater resource for the physical scheduling of duties and rotas) - and they too had to undertake a completely fresh set of duties, just like Arriva, but managed to implement these two weeks ago. Not only this but have managed to communicate these revised timetables better than most operators in the country, with updated timetables available on the company’s website, mobile and app and in print (available on all buses), as well as re-allocating the fleet to ensure upgraded capacity is provided where it is expected to be required.

There is a lot of work involved in this, yes, and nobody is suggesting laziness or tardiness on Arriva’s part. 60+ hour weeks, with everything past the bog standard working week being done as a gesture of goodwill from employees in this department, has become the norm since March last year.

It’s not a contest but it cannot be denied that Go North East did respond much more quickly than Arriva, and arguably this was best for customers, as there aren’t any journeys being cancelled at short notice due to a lack of drivers being available. It goes without saying that if Arriva had more resource, then they could be doing more for their passengers.


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GNE most recent response was exactly the same as Arriva very first COVID ramp down, with simply pulling out vehicle workings, which reduced service level at the expense of sensible frequency. (i.e services are running with random gaps currently due to this very urgent approach).

They could have (and in hindsight probably should have) done this again, but I understand the stuff in the planning is effectively a full replan to ensure frequencies and common corridors don't have the same odd gaps that GNE are running now.

That's effectively the difference in the planning time compared to what GNE did and what Arriva are trying to do.

(30 Jan 2021, 3:58 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]GNE most recent response was exactly the same as Arriva very first COVID ramp down, with simply pulling out vehicle workings, which reduced service level at the expense of sensible frequency. (i.e services are running with random gaps currently due to this very urgent approach).

They could have (and in hindsight probably should have) done this again, but I understand the stuff in the planning is effectively a full replan to ensure frequencies and common corridors don't have the same odd gaps that GNE are running now.

That's effectively the difference in the planning time compared to what GNE did and what Arriva are trying to do.

Yes, when the taxpayer is funding operations, it makes sense morally to use a quicker approach.

In addition, you could argue that a quicker approach has allowed staffing levels to be reduced and reviewed more quickly, preventing any unscheduled odd gaps, as we are currently seeing in Arriva’s network.

The uneven headways, whilst inconvenient, are better planned than unplanned, as at least customers can still plan their journeys.


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To go back to the initial topic of this thread, today:

7446 failed on the 35 early on, was replaced by 1580.
7512 failed at Alnwick at 14:00, prior to operating the X15 to Morpeth.
7517 was pulled off the X18 at Morpeth around 15:40, replaced by 1580 (which was replaced on the 35 by 7446 about an hour later).
7525 failed on the X21 early afternoon. It was last in service on Wednesday, where it failed on its second trip of the day.
7533 was replaced by 7528 on the X18 after failing just outside Morpeth in the early afternoon. It has since picked up an X21/22.
7542 failed(?) on the X21 at lunchtime. This board doesn't seem to have been picked up until 7533 went onto it at 15:30.
7554 was replaced by 7531 on the X18 just before 17:00 at Morpeth.
7555 made it to Newcastle and back to Ashington on the X20 this morning before being replaced by 7515.

In addition, 7527 was pulled off the X21/22 to replace 1580 on the X14, which was punted onto an X15 to replace 7512. 7517 picked up the board 7528 was taken off just before 17:00, meaning that missed a run to Newcastle and back.

Both 51-plate Volvos (7484/6) going strong on the 35s mind, so every cloud and all that...

I just do not see how Arriva/DB can look at that and think that investment is not needed, or that the engineering team at Ashington do not need serious help. Wonder how many times today the phrase "at least we're not effing Jesmond" was uttered at Ashington...

(30 Jan 2021, 6:10 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]To go back to the initial topic of this thread, today:

7446 failed on the 35 early on, was replaced by 1580.
7512 failed at Alnwick at 14:00, prior to operating the X15 to Morpeth.
7517 was pulled off the X18 at Morpeth around 15:40, replaced by 1580 (which was replaced on the 35 by 7446 about an hour later).
7525 failed on the X21 early afternoon. It was last in service on Wednesday, where it failed on its second trip of the day.
7533 was replaced by 7528 on the X18 after failing just outside Morpeth in the early afternoon. It has since picked up an X21/22.
7542 failed(?) on the X21 at lunchtime. This board doesn't seem to have been picked up until 7533 went onto it at 15:30.
7554 was replaced by 7531 on the X18 just before 17:00 at Morpeth.
7555 made it to Newcastle and back to Ashington on the X20 this morning before being replaced by 7515.

In addition, 7527 was pulled off the X21/22 to replace 1580 on the X14, which was punted onto an X15 to replace 7512. 7517 picked up the board 7528 was taken off just before 17:00, meaning that missed a run to Newcastle and back.

Both 51-plate Volvos (7484/6) going strong on the 35s mind, so every cloud and all that...

I just do not see how Arriva/DB can look at that and think that investment is not needed, or that the engineering team at Ashington do not need serious help. Wonder how many times today the phrase "at least we're not effing Jesmond" was uttered at Ashington...

Do Ashington not post updates on ANE's main FB page like Blyth do when there's operational issues?