North East Buses

Is it a possibility that due to the National Driver shortage this year that on boxing day we could see other companies helping GNE/Arriva and Stagecoach run boxing day services

(20 Sep 2021, 2:55 pm)Train8261 wrote [ -> ]Is it a possibility that due to the National Driver shortage this year that on boxing day we could see other companies helping GNE/Arriva and Stagecoach run boxing day services

There's always drivers wanting £££ on Boxing Day.

(20 Sep 2021, 2:55 pm)Train8261 wrote [ -> ]Is it a possibility that due to the National Driver shortage this year that on boxing day we could see other companies helping GNE/Arriva and Stagecoach run boxing day services

Or they cut them down and don't run as many. Newcastle are at home but I imagine it will move for TV (either the same day or following day)

Be interested to see if it does happen

(20 Sep 2021, 2:55 pm)Train8261 wrote [ -> ]Is it a possibility that due to the National Driver shortage this year that on boxing day we could see other companies helping GNE/Arriva and Stagecoach run boxing day services

Unless Nexus pays for it, they won't be running at all imo. No way would they pay the costs for someone to run services for the sake of it.

What’s this about services on Boxing Day it’s unheard of. Seriously though I Know Newcastle is used to this but face it they is likely to be a very limited service there if that and unless it is payed for from nexus or a local council I can see the majority of operators not bothering to run on that day just like how it is down here in Hartlepool and Teesside.

Maybe, we need to stop treating bank holidays as anything (as well as Sundays) as anything special.
People still need to get to work, buses still need to run a 'proper' service. Maybe not to the same frequency, but at least to all the places they usually serve!

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(22 Sep 2021, 9:06 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Maybe, we need to stop treating bank holidays as anything (as well as Sundays) as anything special.
People still need to get to work, buses still need to run a 'proper' service. Maybe not to the same frequency, but at least to all the places they usually serve!

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Plenty of vacancies if you feel we don't need bank Holidays. Personally I'd give you a week at most!!!!.

(22 Sep 2021, 9:13 am)Stanleyone wrote [ -> ]Plenty of vacancies if you feel we don't need bank Holidays. Personally I'd give you a week at most!!!!.

Most supermarket workers are still expected to work Sundays and bank holidays.

At the end of the day, as a customer it's not my problem to care what the driver's think. That's the company's problem to solve.

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(22 Sep 2021, 9:21 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Most supermarket workers are still expected to work Sundays and bank holidays.

At the end of the day, as a customer it's not my problem to care what the driver's think. That's the company's problem to solve.

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As are we, my problem is people like you and your attitude towards what we provide. Shops close earlier on Sundays and work shorter hours on bank Holidays so why have a enhanced service level. You are on another level and as I say you couldn't do the job we do.

(22 Sep 2021, 10:19 am)Stanleyone wrote [ -> ]As are we, my problem is people like you and your attitude towards what we provide. Shops close earlier on Sundays and work shorter hours on bank Holidays so why have a enhanced service level. You are on another level and as I say you couldn't do the job we do.

Probably dosen't even work.

(22 Sep 2021, 12:32 pm)Driver9*** wrote [ -> ]Probably dosen't even work.

If I remember correctly he's in "marketing", probably one of these paid to read from a script whilst cold calling potential customers, very unskilled work types.

(22 Sep 2021, 1:02 pm)Stanleyone wrote [ -> ]If I remember correctly he's in "marketing", probably one of these paid to read from a script whilst cold calling potential customers, very unskilled work types.

But still one of your Customers (if you are a driver and if you are, I'd have you out the door as it's an appalling attitude to have towards a Customer)

And let's not pretend bus driving, depsite the challenges, is anything more than an entry level low skilled profession which probably pays less than cold call sales companies and entry level retail (who do work outside the current limited operating hours)

This mentality of Monday to Friday in the industry along with rigid service patterns is exactly why the industry is on its arse. It's filled with archaic attitudes and any forward thinking has the life sucked out of it by a minority of souless drivers who don't give a toss about the people who pay their wages (the company and its passengers)

(22 Sep 2021, 1:33 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]But still one of your Customers (if you are a driver and if you are, I'd have you out the door as it's an appalling attitude to have towards a Customer)

And let's not pretend bus driving, depsite the challenges, is anything more than an entry level low skilled profession which probably pays less than cold call sales companies and entry level retail (who do work outside the current limited operating hours)

This mentality of Monday to Friday in the industry along with rigid service patterns is exactly why the industry is on its arse. It's filled with archaic attitudes and any forward thinking has the life sucked out of  it by a minority of souless drivers who don't give a toss about the people who pay their wages (the company and its passengers)

Just wanted to highlight some of your post as a sentence. It pretty much explains why the industry is in the state it's in. Stanleyone imo is one of the better posters on here and the comments by some enthusiasts towards bus drivers is shocking, especially for something they're supposed to like. I'm surprised it's took so long for someone to call him out (he's not the only one on here either).

(22 Sep 2021, 12:32 pm)Driver9*** wrote [ -> ]Probably dosen't even work.

If only! I'd be better off living on the dole!
Getting my rent paid for and getting money for sitting around doing sod all!

(22 Sep 2021, 1:02 pm)Stanleyone wrote [ -> ]If I remember correctly he's in "marketing", probably one of these paid to read from a script whilst cold calling potential customers, very unskilled work types.

I'm in the data analysis side of market research, so (and I don't mean to brag) quite a 'skilled' job, one that requires actual qualifications.
On the off chance that you're actually interested in what it entails, I did quite a detailed post about it in the topic about one of the rallies.

(22 Sep 2021, 1:33 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]But still one of your Customers (if you are a driver and if you are, I'd have you out the door as it's an appalling attitude to have towards a Customer)

And let's not pretend bus driving, depsite the challenges, is anything more than an entry level low skilled profession which probably pays less than cold call sales companies and entry level retail (who do work outside the current limited operating hours)

This mentality of Monday to Friday in the industry along with rigid service patterns is exactly why the industry is on its arse. It's filled with archaic attitudes and any forward thinking has the life sucked out of it by a minority of souless drivers who don't give a toss about the people who pay their wages (the company and its passengers)

Well, I was writing something similar to that earlier, but not quite as polite!! (And decided it wasn't worth the effort so never posted it)

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(22 Sep 2021, 2:14 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Just wanted to highlight some of your post as a sentence. It pretty much explains why the industry is in the state it's in. Stanleyone imo is one of the better posters on here and the comments by some enthusiasts towards bus drivers is shocking, especially for something they're supposed to like. I'm surprised it's took so long for someone to call him out (he's not the only one on here either).

Call me out on what, speaking my opinion?

Quite frankly, as a customer (and not an 'enthusiast'), I don't care about the drivers. I only care about the bus getting me to where I need to be, when I need to be there. 

Maybe I'm unique in the fact that I can switch from being an 'enthusiast' to being just a 'customer'?

(22 Sep 2021, 2:38 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]If only! I'd be better off living on the dole!
Getting my rent paid for and getting money for sitting around doing sod all!


I'm in the data analysis side of market research, so (and I don't mean to brag) quite a 'skilled' job, one that requires actual qualifications.
On the off chance that you're actually interested in what it entails, I did quite a detailed post about it in the topic about one of the rallies.


Well, I was writing something similar to that earlier, but not quite as polite!! (And decided it wasn't worth the effort so never posted it)

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Call me out on what, speaking my opinion?

Quite frankly, as a customer (and not an 'enthusiast'), I don't care about the drivers. I only care about the bus getting me to where I need to be, when I need to be there. 

Maybe I'm unique in the fact that I can switch from being an 'enthusiast' to being just a 'customer'?

" I don't care about the drivers. I only care about the bus getting me to where I need to be, when I need to be there."

What a stupid statement - without the drivers, you wouldn't have a bus getting you to where you need to be...

(22 Sep 2021, 2:51 pm)Thomas12 wrote [ -> ]" I don't care about the drivers. I only care about the bus getting me to where I need to be, when I need to be there."

What a stupid statement - without the drivers, you wouldn't have a bus getting you to where you need to be...

How nice of you to cut out the context from your quote to fit your agenda.

At the end of the day, it works both ways. If they don't want to work the services that passengers want (or need), then they're going to be out of a job altogether.

It's the job of the operator to make sure drivers and passengers are kept happy.

Plus, you have to remember that people have no legal right to bank holidays or Sundays off work. In fact, a lot of companies now have it in their contracts that staff are expected to work Sundays and bank holidays.

As I said before, people still need to get to work, for a lot of people they're just a normal day, except from the fact that they can't get anywhere using public transport!

(22 Sep 2021, 2:38 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Call me out on what, speaking my opinion?

Quite frankly, as a customer (and not an 'enthusiast'), I don't care about the drivers. I only care about the bus getting me to where I need to be, when I need to be there. 

Maybe I'm unique in the fact that I can switch from being an 'enthusiast' to being just a 'customer'?

But no-one needs to be out on Boxing Day. If Next wants to do a Boxing Day sale then that's their problem bus driver's shouldn't be expected to work to shuttle a few people to go clothes shopping. when there's plenty other days you can go. Most decent work places won't be open other than the likes of hospitals and neither are the big supermarkets this year either.

The majority of the general public would have respect for driver's as most people would realise that half the things you rant about them are the managers and suits above who should be getting the slack. If GNE and the rest of the industry actually paid a decent page and didn't have morale shot to the bottom then driver's might actually be more willing to do more on their days off such as working Bank Holiday shifts.

You say you don't care about drivers but the comments you make on here give the impression you have a massive grudge against them.

(22 Sep 2021, 3:28 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ] But no-one[b] needs to be out on Boxing Day[/b] . If Next wants to do a Boxing Day sale then that's their problem bus driver's shouldn't be expected to work to shuttle a few people to go clothes shopping. when there's plenty other days you can go. Most decent work places won't be open other than the likes of hospitals and neither are the big supermarkets this year either.

The majority of the general public would have respect for driver's as most people would realise that half the things you rant about them are the managers and suits above who should be getting the slack. If GNE and the rest of the industry actually paid a decent page and didn't have morale shot to the bottom then driver's might actually be more willing to do more on their days off such as working Bank Holiday shifts.

You say you don't care about drivers but the comments you make on here give the impression you have a massive grudge against them.

Work? Football? Socialising? Family requirements? 
There's many reasons why people may need to go out Boxing Day and need to use public transport. 
The same could be said about Christmas Day too.

I get that drivers have lives to live, but they're working in a service industry.

(22 Sep 2021, 3:28 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]But no-one needs to be out on Boxing Day. If Next wants to do a Boxing Day sale then that's their problem bus driver's shouldn't be expected to work to shuttle a few people to go clothes shopping. when there's plenty other days you can go. Most decent work places won't be open other than the likes of hospitals and neither are the big supermarkets this year either.

The majority of the general public would have respect for driver's as most people would realise that half the things you rant about them are the managers and suits above who should be getting the slack. If GNE and the rest of the industry actually paid a decent page and didn't have morale shot to the bottom then driver's might actually be more willing to do more on their days off such as working Bank Holiday shifts.

You say you don't care about drivers but the comments you make on here give the impression you have a massive grudge against them.

Actually, they should. Because that's literally their job description! If passengers want a boxing day service, then it should be offered. Boxing day is no different than any other bank holiday.

I don't have a grudge against bus drivers (well, not all of them at least!), I just don't like people who think they should be treated differently because of the job they do. 

Why should bus drivers be entitled to boxing day off when other 'essential' workers aren't? They were happy to be called an essential worker last year, telling everyone how important their job is. But on boxing day they're just like 'nah, you can live without us'.

I'd say the same thing to someone working in a supermarket.

(22 Sep 2021, 3:45 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Actually, they should. Because that's literally their job description! If passengers want a boxing day service, then it should be offered. Boxing day is no different than any other bank holiday.

I don't have a grudge against bus drivers (well, not all of them at least!), I just don't like people who think they should be treated differently because of the job they do. 

Why should bus drivers be entitled to boxing day off when other 'essential' workers aren't? They were happy to be called an essential worker last year, telling everyone how important their job is. But on boxing day they're just like 'nah, you can live without us'.

I'd say the same thing to someone working in a supermarket.

Aye I know what your saying. Personally I think it should be optional though with triple time or whatever they see fit. Obviously they'll never do that though if they could get away with it shareholders can't do that out their pockets. 

There'll always be some who would work if you offered the right pay.

(22 Sep 2021, 4:19 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Aye I know what your saying. Personally I think it should be optional though with triple time or whatever they see fit. Obviously they'll never do that though if they could get away with it shareholders can't do that out their pockets. 

There'll always be some who would work if you offered the right pay.

I'd imagine there are probably a lot of drivers who would work boxing day just to get away from the family!

(22 Sep 2021, 3:45 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Actually, they should. Because that's literally their job description! If passengers want a boxing day service, then it should be offered. Boxing day is no different than any other bank holiday.

Are you really so utterly naïve to believe that it is the bus drivers who decide whether a bus service is provided on a Boxing day, or the level of service provided on a Sunday etc?  Is there any evidence that the limited service on a Sunday is anything to do with driver willingness.  Or could it be to do almost entirely with demand and profitability.

As for the statement that Boxing Day is no different to any other bank holiday, I think scores of decades of tradition in this country would demonstrate that this is clap-trap.  It’s like saying Christmas Day is no different to May Bank Holiday. 

(22 Sep 2021, 3:45 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]I just don't like people who think they should be treated differently because of the job they do. 

Why should bus drivers be entitled to boxing day off when other 'essential' workers aren't? They were happy to be called an essential worker last year, telling everyone how important their job is. But on boxing day they're just like 'nah, you can live without us'.

I'd say the same thing to someone working in a supermarket.

Trying to claim we need 7 day services bank hols included to all places because other ‘service industries’ do the equivalent is also nonsense.  Shops as have already been said operate reduced hours, and in many cases local shops don’t open at all.  Yes the NHS is 24 hours via A&E but have you tried getting a GP appointment on a weekend, or pretty much anything routine.  Have you been in hospital, where they try to discharge as many as possible ahead of weekend and certainly ahead of bank holidays like Christmas and New Year?  I’m not saying there is no need for some level of service but to demonise drivers and suggest they want certain days off when other essential workers don’t is just not grounded in reality – almost all industries that can either close or massively reduce over weekends and bank holidays.  And that includes a good range of service industries.  Other than the entertainment industry I am actually struggling to think which "services" you think are provided to the same level on e.g. Boxing Day than any other day (beyond a skelton level for emergency response etc).

(22 Sep 2021, 4:28 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote [ -> ]Are you really so utterly naïve to believe that it is the bus drivers who decide whether a bus service is provided on a Boxing day, or the level of service provided on a Sunday etc?  Is there any evidence that the limited service on a Sunday is anything to do with driver willingness.  Or could it be to do almost entirely with demand and profitability.

As for the statement that Boxing Day is no different to any other bank holiday, I think scores of decades of tradition in this country would demonstrate that this is clap-trap.  It’s like saying Christmas Day is no different to May Bank Holiday. 



Trying to claim we need 7 day services bank hols included to all places because other ‘service industries’ do the equivalent is also nonsense.  Shops as have already been said operate reduced hours, and in many cases local shops don’t open at all.  Yes the NHS is 24 hours via A&E but have you tried getting a GP appointment on a weekend, or pretty much anything routine.  Have you been in hospital, where they try to discharge as many as possible ahead of weekend and certainly ahead of bank holidays like Christmas and New Year?  I’m not saying there is no need for some level of service but to demonise drivers and suggest they want certain days off when other essential workers don’t is just not grounded in reality – almost all industries that can either close or massively reduce over weekends and bank holidays.  And that includes a good range of service industries.  Other than the entertainment industry I am actually struggling to think which "services" you think are provided to the same level on e.g. Boxing Day than any other day (beyond a skelton level for emergency response etc).

Have you actually read anything I've said? I never said that it was down to the drivers. I literally said it was down to the operator to keep both sides happy.

I mean, I wasn't going to bring that one up, but yeah, Christmas Day is no different either!

I also never said that they needed to operate a full service, but they need to at least operate their full network, even at a reduced frequency.

(22 Sep 2021, 4:46 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Have you actually read anything I've said? I never said that it was down to the drivers. I literally said it was down to the operator to keep both sides happy.

Yes, unfortuantely.

See below - all of which strongly imply that it is down to the drivers... If that wasn't your intent, maybe you need to modify how you communicate your views?

(22 Sep 2021, 2:57 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]At the end of the day, it works both ways. If they don't want to work the services that passengers want (or need), then they're going to be out of a job altogether.

It's the job of the operator to make sure drivers and passengers are kept happy.

Plus, you have to remember that people have no legal right to bank holidays or Sundays off work. In fact, a lot of companies now have it in their contracts that staff are expected to work Sundays and bank holidays.

(22 Sep 2021, 3:45 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Actually, they should. Because that's literally their job description! If passengers want a boxing day service, then it should be offered. Boxing day is no different than any other bank holiday.

I don't have a grudge against bus drivers (well, not all of them at least!), I just don't like people who think they should be treated differently because of the job they do. 

Why should bus drivers be entitled to boxing day off when other 'essential' workers aren't? They were happy to be called an essential worker last year, telling everyone how important their job is. But on boxing day they're just like 'nah, you can live without us'.

(22 Sep 2021, 4:46 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]I mean, I wasn't going to bring that one up, but yeah, Christmas Day is no different either!

Meanwhile, in the real world...

(22 Sep 2021, 4:46 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]I also never said that they needed to operate a full service, but they need to at least operate their full network, even at a reduced frequency.

I likewise didn't mention operating a full service or imply you had.  If you, in your own words, actually read what I said... I said it was nonsense to suggest what you have repeated here, that there needs to be a service 7 days a week including bank hols, to all areas.  The demand just is not there to make it profitable.  If it was profitable, the operators would be running it.  Whether there's a case for a subsidised service is another debate.

I'm a bit bemused reading through this, to be honest. 

If a demand exists, then it would be remiss of any business to ignore that. It is absolute basics in any business that your product/service meets customer demand and expectation, otherwise you end up in a regressive spiral until the point that you have no customers. A pub wouldn't last very long if it only opened Monday to Friday 9am-5pm and shut on bank holidays.

It's really that simple. Attacking each other on here isn't going to change that fact.

(22 Sep 2021, 5:27 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I'm a bit bemused reading through this, to be honest. 

If a demand exists, then it would be remiss of any business to ignore that. It is absolute basics in any business that your product/service meets customer demand and expectation, otherwise you end up in a regressive spiral until the point that you have no customers. A pub wouldn't last very long if it only opened Monday to Friday 9am-5pm and shut on bank holidays.

It's really that simple. Attacking each other on here isn't going to change that fact.

Isn’t the whole domestic bus market currently in a regressive spiral? Speculate to accumulate and all that jazz.

(22 Sep 2021, 8:34 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]Isn’t the whole domestic bus market currently in a regressive spiral? Speculate to accumulate and all that jazz. 

Only on tables, pleather seats etc.
Everything else (including commercial teams) is stuck in the same progressive spiral as it was 10 years ago and the 10 years prior to that.

(22 Sep 2021, 9:28 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Only on tables, pleather seats etc.
Everything else (including commercial teams) is stuck in the same progressive spiral as it was 10 years ago and the 10 years prior to that.

I imagine they all work from an office 9-5 (that they drive to no doubt)

The whole industry is stuck. There’s no art of the possible, it’s just a well…we’ve never worked that day and nobody wants to go to insert point A here on a public holiday and we won’t try because…well cause, Dave from Consett wants to go to the club for a few pints and then see the grandkids, and you see he’s a bus driver and he knows best, just like Barbara from Safeway who said nobody would shop on a Sunday,

The North East is an exception to the rule, our drivers would have kittens looking at working patterns outside the region with their  archaic attitude…they even run services on….whisper….New Years Day

(22 Sep 2021, 1:33 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]But still one of your Customers (if you are a driver and if you are, I'd have you out the door as it's an appalling attitude to have towards a Customer)

And let's not pretend bus driving, depsite the challenges, is anything more than an entry level low skilled profession which probably pays less than cold call sales companies and entry level retail (who do work outside the current limited operating hours)

This mentality of Monday to Friday in the industry along with rigid service patterns is exactly why the industry is on its arse. It's filled with archaic attitudes and any forward thinking has the life sucked out of it by a minority of souless drivers who don't give a toss about the people who pay their wages (the company and its passengers)

Pleased to say he's not one of my customers, if he really uses our services and appalling attitude towards a customer, more like calling him out for what he is, a simple keyboard warrior with a grudge.

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(22 Sep 2021, 2:38 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]I'm in the data analysis side of market research.

So you are someone who rings up asking if you have 5 mins to spare to answer a few questions?

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(22 Sep 2021, 2:57 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]How nice of you to cut out the context from your quote to fit your agenda.

At the end of the day, it works both ways. If they don't want to work the services that passengers want (or need), then they're going to be out of a job altogether.

It's the job of the operator to make sure drivers and passengers are kept happy.

Plus, you have to remember that people have no legal right to bank holidays or Sundays off work. In fact, a lot of companies now have it in their contracts that staff are expected to work Sundays and bank holidays.

As I said before, people still need to get to work, for a lot of people they're just a normal day, except from the fact that they can't get anywhere using public transport!

Later buses and 24 hour services recently introduced, drivers more than happy to do them for no extra in the pay packet. You really are not helping your cause. Did you apply to work for gne and get knocked back, hence the pure hatred towards drivers?

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(22 Sep 2021, 1:33 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]This mentality of Monday to Friday in the industry along with rigid service patterns is exactly why the industry is on its arse. It's filled with archaic attitudes and any forward thinking has the life sucked out of it by a minority of souless drivers who don't give a toss about the people who pay their wages (the company and its passengers)

As said above, more late night services, 24 hour buses, do amazon give an enhanced rate for night shift working?, yes they do but drivers don't and simply get on with the job. The industry isn't on its arse, but it would be if we were left in yours and keyboard warriors hands.