North East Buses

I realise it's still early and may have just dreamed it up. But I'm sure they've just mentioned a merger between Stagecoach and First on Radio 4.

Misheard it. It's apparently National Express and Stagecoach
https://www.cityam.com/national-express-...tagecoach/

(21 Sep 2021, 6:48 am)tcts24 wrote [ -> ]Misheard it. It's apparently National Express and Stagecoach
https://www.cityam.com/national-express-...tagecoach/

Can't see that going down well with the competition commissioner as they won't have any interest in the local routes. It's to get arid of their biggest competitor (Megabus) imo.

(21 Sep 2021, 6:59 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Can't see that going down well with the competition commissioner as they won't have any interest in the local routes. It's to get arid of their biggest competitor (Megabus) imo.

A very predictable scenario, Stagecoach take NatEx, Megabus can then raise it's prices and still be cheaper than Nat Ex fares over similar routes. Monopolies would have to come in on this, but with this regime, Stagecoach can just go to the DfT and get it quashed with a donation to the Tories...

(21 Sep 2021, 6:59 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Can't see that going down well with the competition commissioner as they won't have any interest in the local routes. It's to get arid of their biggest competitor (Megabus) imo. 

Whilst it's early days, I do think this is a major factor or reasoning behind the deal.
Particularly with the likes of flixbus entering the market. 

I can also see it being the end of Nat Ex routes being operated by some of the other major players and that work being carried out by Stagecoach. As an example, North East based Nat Ex routes would be stabled and operated out of Walkergate should this deal come off.

This is The Guardians take it on it. https://www.theguardian.com/business/202...us-company

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(21 Sep 2021, 7:18 am)54APhotography wrote [ -> ] A very predictable scenario, Stagecoach take NatEx, Megabus can then raise it's prices and still be cheaper than Nat Ex fares over similar routes. Monopolies would have to come in on this, but with this regime, Stagecoach can just go to the DfT and get it quashed with a donation to the Tories...

It appears to be the other way around. Nat Ex would be the biggest shareholder and it seems to be them leading the bid.

(21 Sep 2021, 7:47 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Whilst it's early days, I do think this is a major factor or reasoning behind the deal.
Particularly with the likes of flixbus entering the market. 

I can also see it being the end of Nat Ex routes being operated by some of the other major players and that work being carried out by Stagecoach. As an example, North East based Nat Ex routes would be stabled and operated out of Walkergate should this deal come off.

This is The Guardians take it on it. https://www.theguardian.com/business/202...us-company

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It appears to be the other way around. Nat Ex would be the biggest shareholder and it seems to be them leading the bid.

Surprised that Stagecoach would enter into a merger as the smaller shareholder, Megabus has a small percentage of non-stagecoach owned vehicles, whereas National Express has none. Stagecoach do however have some coaches with National Express. Be interesting to see how this plays out.

How would this merger effect Go north east and other operators around the UK who run Nat Ex services, would they still carry on or would they all be stripped of contracts and all done in house by Nat Ex/Stagecoach, if that happens a mass exodus from GNE to Stagecoach would probably happen or the drivers would move over with the migration of services

(21 Sep 2021, 6:32 am)tcts24 wrote [ -> ]I realise it's still early and may have just dreamed it up. But I'm sure they've just mentioned a merger between Stagecoach and First on Radio 4.

Can you rename the title of this thread


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(21 Sep 2021, 8:01 am)N1cholas wrote [ -> ]How would this merger effect Go north east and other operators around the UK who run Nat Ex services, would they still carry on or would they all be stripped of contracts and all done in house by Nat Ex/Stagecoach, if that happens a mass exodus from GNE to Stagecoach would probably happen or the drivers would move over with the migration of services

Nobody knows, but when NX bought a load of coach operators just before covid, they served notice on some franchise operators in those area shortly after. Ironically one of those was Yellow Buses of Bournemouth, which has since taken on Megabus work to replace it!

Not the first time these 2 have flirted with the idea of merging. Maybe that explains Nat Ex selling Dundee to McGills?

Maybe Stagecoach could sell its UK operations to Flix like it did in Europe, thus satisfying any competition issues for the long distance network.

Of course, National Express has just sold Dundee to McGills which would only be the major bit of competition that I think would have been an issue in the local markets.

(21 Sep 2021, 11:35 am)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]Maybe Stagecoach could sell its UK operations to Flix like it did in Europe, thus satisfying any competition issues for the long distance network.

Of course, National Express has just sold Dundee to McGills which would only be the major bit of competition that I think would have been an issue in the local markets.

Think there's a small amount around Coventry/Warwick and the Unilink routes.  Nothing insurmountable, I'm sure.

(21 Sep 2021, 11:35 am)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]Maybe Stagecoach could sell its UK operations to Flix like it did in Europe, thus satisfying any competition issues for the long distance network.

Of course, National Express has just sold Dundee to McGills which would only be the major bit of competition that I think would have been an issue in the local markets.

Few routes around the Coventry, Nuneaton and Leamington Spa area, but not insurmountable. Cheers.

(21 Sep 2021, 6:59 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Can't see that going down well with the competition commissioner as they won't have any interest in the local routes. It's to get arid of their biggest competitor (Megabus) imo.

I read a comment on another forum, that I tend to agree with - if they've announced it thus far, and they're already deciding who gets the top jobs then they must have a pretty good idea that there won't be too much trouble with the competition authorities.

(21 Sep 2021, 8:30 am)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]Can you rename the title of this thread


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Would if I knew how. Probably only done at moderator level.

(21 Sep 2021, 11:57 am)Chris 1 wrote [ -> ]I read a comment on another forum, that I tend to agree with - if they've announced it thus far, and they're already deciding who gets the top jobs then they must have a pretty good idea that there won't be too much trouble with the competition authorities.

Aye your probably right tbf like. Guessing they'll just have to sell some routes off if needed but Stagecoach dominate in Scotland anyway especially around Inverness with Megabus, Citylink and them running the local services aswell which are all owned by them so having the same in other areas probably won't bother the commissioner. Believe they had to sell a few routes to Parks when they took a share in Citylink.

(21 Sep 2021, 6:59 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Can't see that going down well with the competition commissioner as they won't have any interest in the local routes. It's to get arid of their biggest competitor (Megabus) imo.

I think the coaching operation would be called in by the CMA, as I don't think the FlixBus operation is significant enough to be deemed a major player yet. 

The bus operation on the other hand, I don't think would present a problem as far as competition goes. I think there's only parts of the West Midlands with competition now, at least since Xplore Dundee was sold on to McGill's.

(21 Sep 2021, 3:13 pm)tcts24 wrote [ -> ]Would if I knew how. Probably only done at moderator level.

Done - its changed now.

It going to be interesting. If this goes though locally I think the following would happen.

Go North East would almost certainly lose out on the coaching side as the new National express/Stagecoach company would likely keep everything in house. I could see one of the Newcastle depots and Sunderland sharing the work up here

I think Hartlepool and Shields depots/network would very likely be sold off or closed with Go North East most likely to buy them. If they don’t sell and close them then Hartlepool would likely lose services and merge with the Teesside network and Shields doing similar with the Sunderland network

(21 Sep 2021, 9:29 pm)col87 wrote [ -> ]It going to be interesting.  If this goes though locally I think the following would happen.

Go North East would almost certainly lose out on the coaching side as the new National express/Stagecoach company would likely keep everything in house. I could see one of the Newcastle depots and Sunderland sharing the work up here

I think Hartlepool and Shields depots/network  would very likely be sold off or closed with Go North East most likely to buy them.  If they don’t sell and close them then Hartlepool would likely lose services and merge with the Teesside network and Shields doing similar with the Sunderland network

I doubt any of this would effect our local bus area, not sure why this new entity would want to sell up anywhere when they don’t need to. The coaching side I can see happening, but not immediately as they have a contract with GNE.

(21 Sep 2021, 3:42 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I think the coaching operation would be called in by the CMA, as I don't think the FlixBus operation is significant enough to be deemed a major player yet.  

The bus operation on the other hand, I don't think would present a problem as far as competition goes. I think there's only parts of the West Midlands with competition now, at least since Xplore Dundee was sold on to McGill's.


Done - its changed now.

I think 'yet' is the key word here.
Flixbus raised £500m of investment just a few months ago and if Nat Ex or Megabus are caught napping, they could lose out big time.

I think its important they look to stay ahead of the game here and if they can cut/reduce costs in the meantime through the merger, it seems a no-brainer.

(21 Sep 2021, 10:28 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]I doubt any of this would effect our local bus area, not sure why this new entity would want to sell up anywhere when they don’t need to. The coaching side I can see happening, but not immediately as they have a contract with GNE.

In the current climate,  I'm MG would love to have those nat ex drivers back on locals. If the coaching side does go, I would see Chester depot closing.

(22 Sep 2021, 12:12 am)Stanleyone wrote [ -> ]In the current climate,  I'm MG would love to have those nat ex drivers back on locals. If the coaching side does go, I would see Chester depot closing.

Quite possibly although am surprised Riverside depot is not doing the National Express work.  Washington depot I think could easily do the majority of the Chester Le Street work.  21/X21 all been done from Riverside.  

It also easy to answer why Hartlepool and Shields depots could be sold off or closed permanently.  White Stagecoach might currently want them open and are happily running them on next to no budget both ( especially Hartlepool) desperately need investment and as I understand it they the two less profitable depots in the North East area so from business sense the solution would possibly be to get rid as they can’t really be downgraded any further. I think in that case Arriva could be ruled out unless they do a complete 90 % turn and start investing again so Go North east would be most likely to buy them. Although service wise the Hartlepool 1 and Shields E services I could see staying under Stagecoach/Nat Ex.

(22 Sep 2021, 12:12 am)Stanleyone wrote [ -> ]In the current climate,  I'm MG would love to have those nat ex drivers back on locals. If the coaching side does go, I would see Chester depot closing.

I don't know the state of the depots but wouldn't closing Washington be easier. The 50/50A/26 could easily be operated from it and it's not far to Birtley for the Solos or Bournmoor for the 4. X1 less so but it's no different to the 21, X21, 25, 28 and so on if you shut CLS.

Wasn't there rumours for a new depot merging them years ago anyway or am I making that up.

(22 Sep 2021, 1:38 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]I don't know the state of the depots but wouldn't closing Washington be easier. The 50/50A/26 could easily be operated from it and it's not far to Birtley for the Solos or Bournmoor for the 4. X1 less so but it's no different to the 21, X21, 25, 28 and so on if you shut CLS.

Wasn't there rumours for a new depot merging them years ago anyway or am I making that up.

Yes was going to be on birtley industrial estate iirc. However think galleries where that new cinema was supposed to be built would be ideal place. From there you have all the washington network plus the 8 that's serves the galleries. Also not far from birtley for rest of Chester's operation. Also no need for Van's to ferry drivers to and from concord

(22 Sep 2021, 1:38 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]I don't know the state of the depots but wouldn't closing Washington be easier. The 50/50A/26 could easily be operated from it and it's not far to Birtley for the Solos or Bournmoor for the 4. X1 less so but it's no different to the 21, X21, 25, 28 and so on if you shut CLS.

Wasn't there rumours for a new depot merging them years ago anyway or am I making that up.

Up on the Drum industrial estate was the last rumours I heard, not sure what happened though.

Be a sad day if Chester ever did close, it's where 'The Northern' all began.  Not many old school depots left.

(22 Sep 2021, 1:38 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]I don't know the state of the depots but wouldn't closing Washington be easier. The 50/50A/26 could easily be operated from it and it's not far to Birtley for the Solos or Bournmoor for the 4. X1 less so but it's no different to the 21, X21, 25, 28 and so on if you shut CLS.

Wasn't there rumours for a new depot merging them years ago anyway or am I making that up.

I think there were going to build a big depot at Birtley, but came to no avail and a car company took on the site.

Even though Chester depot must be cramped inside and could do with a new one, I wonder how much the maintenance cost is and if there’s any terminally structural problems with the drpot if it’s to close in the future it’s the only one of two left, it’s more nostalgia

I would of thought moving Washington to deptford be done years ago as it’s only down the road.


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(21 Sep 2021, 10:40 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I think 'yet' is the key word here.
Flixbus raised £500m of investment just a few months ago and if Nat Ex or Megabus are caught napping, they could lose out big time.

I think its important they look to stay ahead of the game here and if they can cut/reduce costs in the meantime through the merger, it seems a no-brainer.

Having a quick look at prices, I'd say National Express are already napping. The FlixBus fares are extremely good value and provide a good option to those on a budget.

(22 Sep 2021, 12:12 am)Stanleyone wrote [ -> ]In the current climate,  I'm MG would love to have those nat ex drivers back on locals. If the coaching side does go, I would see Chester depot closing.

I'm not so sure, because at least the NX work is guaranteed income for GNE. The same cannot be said about locals, sadly. I'd suggest dropping the odd run on a 21 or X1, due to sickness, isn't impacting on the takings.

(22 Sep 2021, 5:38 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Having a quick look at prices, I'd say National Express are already napping. The FlixBus fares are extremely good value and provide a good option for Loooooooooooooooooovel to those on a budget.


I'm not so sure, because at least the NX work is guaranteed income for GNE. The same cannot be said about locals, sadly. I'd suggest dropping the odd run on a 21 or X1, due to sickness, isn't impacting on the takings.

We're going on a trip down to Leeds to see a show next month, and out of Megabus, FlixBus and NatEx, Flixbus was obviously the cheapest, but it was just one journey a day each way, NatEx was only maybe £3 more per person but had the best times. Megabus seem to have shot up in price compared to when we used to use them in the past.

In the end, we decided to just get the train because it was only £1 more each, and with the railcard it actually worked out cheaper.

Wasn't dreaming it then.

(22 Sep 2021, 3:14 pm)JP6004 wrote [ -> ]Yes was going to be on birtley industrial estate iirc. However think galleries where that new cinema was supposed to be built would be ideal place. From there you have all the washington network plus the 8 that's serves the galleries. Also not far from birtley for rest of Chester's operation. Also no need for Van's to ferry drivers to and from concord

Hmm, think Chester area would be better personally like. There's just more routes serving the area especially Birtley. There's only really the X1 and 4 which don't serve since everything else passes close by.

(22 Sep 2021, 3:14 pm)Chris 1 wrote [ -> ]Up on the Drum industrial estate was the last rumours I heard, not sure what happened though.

Be a sad day if Chester ever did close, it's where 'The Northern' all began.  Not many old school depots left.

You're right there mind especially with Jesmond's and Blyth's depot supposedly moving at some point (if they ever do). Will only leave the Stagecoach depots plus Percy Main.

(22 Sep 2021, 3:18 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]I think there were going to build a big depot at Birtley, but came to no avail and a car company took on the site.

Even though Chester depot must be cramped inside and could do with a new one, I wonder how much the maintenance cost is and if there’s any terminally structural problems with the drpot if it’s to close in the future it’s the only one of two left, it’s more nostalgia

I would of thought moving Washington to deptford be done years ago as it’s only down the road.

Probably costing them a fortune tbh, both of them are old now. They look a right dump from the outside aswell (taking the nostalgia glasses for a moment) especially Chester with it's rotten windows, be interesting to see if their any more pleasant for staff inside. No doubt not though.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/202...in-tycoons
Interesting article