North East Buses

Hearing rumours that Jesmond Depot has now been sold.

(03 Jan 2022, 7:25 pm)ne14ne1 wrote [ -> ]Hearing rumours that Jesmond Depot has now been sold.

That's taken a lot longer than I'd thought it would. Searching back and it looks like it was originally mooted back in late 2016.

Some discussion on Sky Scraper City here: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/b...-176779122

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(03 Jan 2022, 7:25 pm)ne14ne1 wrote [ -> ]Hearing rumours that Jesmond Depot has now been sold.

What does this mean

A New depot or something

(03 Jan 2022, 7:49 pm)Train8261 wrote [ -> ]What does this mean

A New depot or something

Yes - I understand there’s going to be a new depot in Walkergate, from what I recall a merger of the depots at Jesmond and Blyth.


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(03 Jan 2022, 7:54 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Yes - I understand there’s going to be a new depot in Walkergate, from what I recall a merger of the depots at Jesmond and Blyth.


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Interesting. What the deal with Jesmond Depot being sold anyway

(03 Jan 2022, 7:57 pm)Train8261 wrote [ -> ]Interesting. What the deal with Jesmond Depot being sold anyway

Prime location for housing or student accommodation, and likely to becoming increasingly unsuitable for modern use.

Plus there's probably a considerable saving in business rates on a new site, not to mention service and energy costs. I'd imagine this played a factor in GNE moving three of their operations into large 'open space' depots.

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Odd choice of location Walkergate, seems operationally a bit out the way from most routes. Thought the original rumoured places of either Sandy Lane or North of Cramlington would be a better place for it and arguably cheaper land at the same time.

Does anybody know if the drivers get paid travel time between Haymarket and Jesmond at the end of earlies or the start of lates?

AFAIK Jesmond is to become a full minibus operation (not sure what's happening to the 685 mind), with all of their conventional work shifting to Blyth. Blyth depot is also being redeveloped, and I believe slightly expanded. To accommodate for the Jesmond conventional work shifting to Blyth, some Blyth routes are shifting to Ashington (I believe the 1/2s).

(03 Jan 2022, 11:15 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]AFAIK Jesmond is to become a full minibus operation (not sure what's happening to the 685 mind), with all of their conventional work shifting to Blyth. Blyth depot is also being redeveloped, and I believe slightly expanded. To accommodate for the Jesmond conventional work shifting to Blyth, some Blyth routes are shifting to Ashington (I believe the 1/2s).

Just found the plans for the Blyth redevelopment but there doesn't seem to be enough space for the buses - https://publicaccess.northumberland.gov....038609.pdf

43 Deckers and 15 Singles seems a tad on the low side though, assuming the singles being the Streetlites so I'm guessing there's plans here to downgrade either the 52, 53 or 54 to minibuses full time otherwise there has to be cuts somewhere or its going to be very tight with extra deckers needed from somewhere for the X7/X8/X9 since there's no space for the Pulsars.

https://publicaccess.northumberland.gov....8YQQSL6000

(04 Jan 2022, 12:15 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Just found the plans for the Blyth redevelopment but there doesn't seem to be enough space for the buses - https://publicaccess.northumberland.gov....038609.pdf

43 Deckers and 15 Singles seems a tad on the low side though, assuming the singles being the Streetlites so I'm guessing there's plans here to downgrade either the 52, 53 or 54 to minibuses full time otherwise there has to be cuts somewhere or its going to be very tight with extra deckers needed from somewhere for the X7/X8/X9 since there's no space for the Pulsars.

https://publicaccess.northumberland.gov....8YQQSL6000

I have heard that, in addition to the 1/2 moving, the X10/11 could also be heading up to Ashington. That would free up around 16 buses from Blyth, I believe the current Blyth PVR is around 40 - so that would be down to 24. I'm not sure on Jesmond conventional PVR, but I'd be shocked if (excluding any miscellaneous boards and the 685) it was significantly more than 34?

(04 Jan 2022, 12:32 am)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I have heard that, in addition to the 1/2 moving, the X10/11 could also be heading up to Ashington. That would free up around 16 buses from Blyth, I believe the current Blyth PVR is around 40 - so that would be down to 24. I'm not sure on Jesmond conventional PVR, but I'd be shocked if (excluding any miscellaneous boards and the 685) it was significantly more than 34?

Yeah that makes sense then with the X10/X11 then, mind you'd think it would be better to have the 40's up there since one already runs to Morpeth anyway and you'd have all the Enviro's together up at Ashington. There's already a dead run to Cramlington for the 58 anyway. 

Interesting to see where these deckers are coming from mind as there's not 43 Deckers between Jesmond and Blyth taking away 13/14 buses for the X10/X11. Assuming no doubt be something from London, I do believe there's a few batches of DB300's being withdrawn down there soon'ish.

(04 Jan 2022, 12:32 am)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I have heard that, in addition to the 1/2 moving, the X10/11 could also be heading up to Ashington. That would free up around 16 buses from Blyth, I believe the current Blyth PVR is around 40 - so that would be down to 24. I'm not sure on Jesmond conventional PVR, but I'd be shocked if (excluding any miscellaneous boards and the 685) it was significantly more than 34?

Seems to build and open a new depot for as little as 34 buses, unless they're getting a grant of some sort from Newcastle CC for redeveloping a brownfield site in Walkergate and they have some plans for expansion. 

When I first saw the article, I assumed they'd have taken the opportunity to merge Jesmond and Blyth into one depot, saving on the operating costs of two separate depots.

(04 Jan 2022, 10:31 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Seems to build and open a new depot for as little as 34 buses, unless they're getting a grant of some sort from Newcastle CC for redeveloping a brownfield site in Walkergate and they have some plans for expansion. 

When I first saw the article, I assumed they'd have taken the opportunity to merge Jesmond and Blyth into one depot, saving on the operating costs of two separate depots.

I wonder if the plan has changed - that was certainly what was mooted just a few months ago, and was apparently necessary for the wider redevelopment of the town centre at Blyth.

(04 Jan 2022, 10:31 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Seems to build and open a new depot for as little as 34 buses, unless they're getting a grant of some sort from Newcastle CC for redeveloping a brownfield site in Walkergate and they have some plans for expansion. 

When I first saw the article, I assumed they'd have taken the opportunity to merge Jesmond and Blyth into one depot, saving on the operating costs of two separate depots.

Unless I'm having a brain fart this morning and forgetting something, the PVR for the depot will be much much lower than 34 and only 12.

There's only the 46(2), 51/51A(3), 55(4), 553/555(3) unless I've totally missed something.

17 if you had all the minibus routes there and moved the 57/57A/58 aswell but that doesn't seem too wise operational wise.

(04 Jan 2022, 11:48 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Unless I'm having a brain fart this morning and forgetting something, the PVR for the depot will be much much lower than 34 and only 12.

There's only the 46(2), 51/51A(3), 55(4), 553/555(3) unless I've totally missed something.

17 if you had all the minibus routes there and moved the 57/57A/58 aswell but that doesn't seem too wise operational wise.

Minor correction - the 55 has a PVR of 3 these days now it operates every 20 minutes so only 11 minibuses. Having said that, the 52/53/54 are generally allocated 2 Solo's - though in theory that would cease if new double decks arrived.

(04 Jan 2022, 11:48 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Unless I'm having a brain fart this morning and forgetting something, the PVR for the depot will be much much lower than 34 and only 12.

There's only the 46(2), 51/51A(3), 55(4), 553/555(3) unless I've totally missed something.

17 if you had all the minibus routes there and moved the 57/57A/58 aswell but that doesn't seem too wise operational wise.

And that assumes that Arriva will actually still be running these bus services once BRG ends...

If I were them, I'd certainly be looking to cancel the 46 and potentially even the 51/51A too.

(04 Jan 2022, 12:39 pm)peter wrote [ -> ]Minor correction - the 55 has a PVR of 3 these days now it operates every 20 minutes so only 11 minibuses. Having said that, the 52/53/54 are generally allocated 2 Solo's - though in theory that would cease if new double decks arrived.

Ah yeah your right, thought the 55 had a longer round trip. Noticed the 54's are allocated Solo's on a weekend aswell nowadays.

(04 Jan 2022, 12:42 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]And that assumes that Arriva will actually still be running these bus services once BRG ends...

If I were them, I'd certainly be looking to cancel the 46 and potentially even the 51/51A too.

Yeah agreed really. I'm not being cynical but it probably explains why they're being humped off to another depot. The old, these services aren't making money, time to sell approach with the all money making services elsewhere. Believe they already done it down in Cannock. Arguably the 55 is going to be in big trouble when the ministry closes aswell since it duplicates Stagecoach / Metro services and I've never actually seen the 553/555 so wouldn't have a clue tbh.

(04 Jan 2022, 12:54 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah agreed really. I'm not being cynical but it probably explains why they're being humped off to another depot. The old, these services aren't making money, time to sell approach with the all money making services elsewhere. Believe they already done it down in Cannock. Arguably the 55 is going to be in big trouble when the ministry closes aswell since it duplicates Stagecoach / Metro services and I've never actually seen the 553/555 so wouldn't have a clue tbh.

I think the 553 is (at least partly) supported by the Freeman Hospital, so that's probably safe!

(04 Jan 2022, 1:04 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]I think the 553 is (at least partly) supported by the Freeman Hospital, so that's probably safe!

A SAFE bus? Have you ever heard of such a thing?

(04 Jan 2022, 1:07 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]A SAFE bus? Have you ever heard of such a thing?

I don't think its operated by 1773, so you need not worry.

(04 Jan 2022, 1:10 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I don't think its operated by 1773, so you need not worry.

I am worried. The Voodoo Priests at Doxford have an ungodly way of resurrecting dead vehicles when operationally required.

Pffft if the 55 was cancelled there would be hell on

(04 Jan 2022, 10:31 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Seems to build and open a new depot for as little as 34 buses, unless they're getting a grant of some sort from Newcastle CC for redeveloping a brownfield site in Walkergate and they have some plans for expansion. 

When I first saw the article, I assumed they'd have taken the opportunity to merge Jesmond and Blyth into one depot, saving on the operating costs of two separate depots.

My bad, the mention of 34 was some rough maths of the maximum conventional vehicles moving to Blyth (58 spaces, and Blyth having a conventional PVR of roughly 24 if the 1/2 and X10/11 moved north to Ashington).

I've no idea how big the planned Jesmond depot is, other than being told it's planned as minibus only, but even if we say that the 57/A and 58 move across then you're looking at a PVR of roughly 20? If they also keep the 685, though that would contradict it being a minibus depot, then you'd need a depot that could house roughly 26-28 buses including spares.

To be honest, most of Jesmond's "big bus" work could be done out of Blyth with perhaps a bait room at Manor Walks for some of the Cramlington services.

- 306 - Interwork with 308
- 43 - Fine
- 44/45 - Interwork with 43 but with more running time than previous
- 54 - Interwork with 52 (as is)
- 52/53 - Both fine

685 would be a funny one? Could either keep or do a "route deal" with either SNW, SNE or GNE.

What could GNE or SNE/SNW give Arriva in return for the 685?

- GNE: North Tyneside minibus network (would only leave PM with a PVR of 27x)

- SNE: Ponteland 'X' routes (would need relief)

(04 Jan 2022, 8:59 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]To be honest, most of Jesmond's "big bus" work could be done out of Blyth with perhaps a bait room at Manor Walks for some of the Cramlington services.

- 306 - Interwork with 308
- 43 - Fine
- 44/45 - Interwork with 43 but with more running time than previous
- 54 - Interwork with 52 (as is)
- 52/53 - Both fine

685 would be a funny one? Could either keep or do a "route deal" with either SNW, SNE or GNE.

What could GNE or SNE/SNW give Arriva in return for the 685?

- GNE: North Tyneside minibus network (would only leave PM with a PVR of 27x)

- SNE: Ponteland 'X' routes (would need relief)

I am really surprised that SNE have not already taken over the 685 Arriva trips to be honest. I don't see what Arriva get out of it. They have zero presence in Carlisle and not very big in the Newcastle area. Wheras Stagecoach are the main operator at both ends! Surely a bigger customer base?

Or.........(with Arriva putting interworking arrangements in place)

X63 > Arriva
685 > Full Stagecoach

Just to clarify the rumoured changes regarding PVR's etc.

-Jesmond is going to be replaced with a minibus only depot in Walkergate including operation of the 46, 51/51A, 55 and 553/555 with a PVR of 11.
-Blyth is being redeveloped and will be operating the 43/44/45, 52/53/54, 306, 308, X7/X8/X9 with a PVR of 57. If there's only space for 58 vehicles that doesn't add up. So either we're getting service changes to free up a suitable number of spares or another service is off to Ashington.
-Ashington is going to operate the 35, X14, X15, X18, X20, X21, X22 as well as the 1, 2 and X10/11 with a PVR of around 53 (potentially the 57/57A/58 remain with a PVR of 5).

The 685 I agree it would make sense to pass over to Stagecoach at this point. The only other oddity is the 47 hospital shuttle which uses a decker atm - not sure of loadings but could be revised to minibus operation (with frequency increase).

Is the 555 still paid for by Quorums new owners? The 52, K routes and 18 easily pick up the slack

Wonder how long that will last in the current climate

(05 Jan 2022, 1:12 am)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]Is the 555 still paid for by Quorums new owners? The 52, K routes and 18 easily pick up the slack

Wonder how long that will last in the current climate

I'm guessing so otherwise it would have been withdrawn