I saw this on FB earlier so i thought it could be a good discount point about how bad Market Street and Pilgrim street is to drop of people, it looks go grim.
I hate getting the bus from Market Street or Pilgrim street, so much I will get off at Gateshead and get on. i absolutely hate those bus stops.
E.g I want to go to Heworth I'll go from X1 to Newcastle - Gateshead then 27.
Or if I want to go to Sunderland ill get the X1 to Dalton Park, then the 61 to Sunderland. (much more luxurious bus with charging)
or Wardley Ill get the X1 to QE and get the 69/67 to Wardley.
Nevertherless, it needs some regenerating no wonder people are not getting on buses when you get picked up from there. Ik there were plans for a 3rd bus station in Newcaslte, but why just another, are they just going to keep adding them or are they just going to make a massive one for all buses a proper interchange.
I don't really mind street stops, but Market Place East is far from ideal. It looks grim, I think is largely derelict at the moment, and that bus stop flag on a pole as the only infrastructure isn't going to keep you warm or dry. Pilgrim Street is about as aesthetically displeasing, but at least has some form of shelter.
Market Street West is a lot better, both in terms of infrastructure and where you're being dropped off. It is quite congested though, which is likely why GNE are terminating stuff on East.
Where do you build a 'massive one' in Newcastle, suitable to combine Eldon Square, Haymarket and the capacity of a third? I think they're going to have enough of a problem finding a place for the third one personally.
(14 Jan 2022, 3:44 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I don't really mind street stops, but Market Place East is far from ideal. It looks grim, I think is largely derelict at the moment, and that bus stop flag on a pole as the only infrastructure isn't going to keep you warm or dry. Pilgrim Street is about as aesthetically displeasing, but at least has some form of shelter.
Market Street West is a lot better, both in terms of infrastructure and where you're being dropped off. It is quite congested though, which is likely why GNE are terminating stuff on East.
Where do you build a 'massive one' in Newcastle, suitable to combine Eldon Square, Haymarket and the capacity of a third? I think they're going to have enough of a problem finding a place for the third one personally.
I think maybe going down the right side of Haymarket, or opposte eldon square stands. Or maybe the side of eldon square where stand A is and along the top near Percy Street.
Both may take some doing but I am pretty sure they could get all GNE services into it.
(14 Jan 2022, 4:05 pm)Omega54 wrote [ -> ]I think maybe going down the right side of Haymarket, or opposte eldon square stands. Or maybe the side of eldon square where stand A is and along the top near Percy Street.
Both may take some doing but I am pretty sure they could get all GNE services into it.
The feedback isn't great, people don't like Market Street East, and for good reason, it is a dump, the road in in tatters, there is not adequate lighting and no cover.
Just another reason not to get the bus, it's that simple.
(14 Jan 2022, 4:05 pm)Omega54 wrote [ -> ]I think maybe going down the right side of Haymarket, or opposte eldon square stands. Or maybe the side of eldon square where stand A is and along the top near Percy Street.
Both may take some doing but I am pretty sure they could get all GNE services into it.
Can you draw it on a map or something? I don't quite understand the suggestion, unless it is to demolish Percy Street and part of St Mary's Place?
(14 Jan 2022, 4:43 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Can you draw it on a map or something? I don't quite understand the suggestion, unless it is to demolish Percy Street and part of St Mary's Place?
Its not the best, however these could be the best not only to get GNE buses in, but to have a massive hub near the metro station at Haymarket.
If they got rid of that big circular carpark and discouraged cars entering Newcastle from Barras Bridge, that would be a start.
A park and ride service from the north end of Newcastle would be ideal. Maybe taking in Gosforth High Street too, where cars would also be banned from.
Was that a flying pig I saw?
(14 Jan 2022, 5:16 pm)Omega54 wrote [ -> ]Its not the best, however these could be the best not only to get GNE buses in, but to have a massive hub near the metro station at Haymarket.
Incredibly that eyesore of a carpark is listed.. Newcastle City Council didn't care about the old city that had grade II and III listing, but say this is art? The whole lot should go, the only private cars that should be in the City are those of the people who live in the apartments above..
Personally I'd rather there was a bus station at the South side of the city so there's isn't buses (generally) driving like absolute bellends right through the city of the centre heading to a bus station at the wrong end of the city. All the services coming from the Tyne Bridge should be no-where near Haymarket and if they want a Metro connection then they should be using Gateshead anyway so it's not needed.
It's all good suggesting cutting cars going from the city but there's something unique about cars they can go wherever they want. People WILL NOT change to a bus, they will go to the Metro Centre, Silverlink, Kingston Park, Team Valley and so on instead. Also there's the argument buses should be no-where near the city either there's a perfectly fine Metro system which takes people to the heart of the city underground where most these buses cross over multiple times - Gateshead and Regent Centre in particular where people should be changing.
(15 Jan 2022, 1:37 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Personally I'd rather there was a bus station at the South side of the city so there's isn't buses (generally) driving like absolute bellends right through the city of the centre heading to a bus station at the wrong end of the city. All the services coming from the Tyne Bridge should be no-where near Haymarket and if they want a Metro connection then they should be using Gateshead anyway so it's not needed.
It's all good suggesting cutting cars going from the city but there's something unique about cars they can go wherever they want. People WILL NOT change to a bus, they will go to the Metro Centre, Silverlink, Kingston Park, Team Valley and so on instead. Also there's the argument buses should be no-where near the city either there's a perfectly fine Metro system which takes people to the heart of the city underground where most these buses cross over multiple times - Gateshead and Regent Centre in particular where people should be changing.
Integrated ticketing for bus and Metro would be required. Changing mode to go one station is ridiculous and makes journey times longer and indirect. Some people actually prefer buses as the Metro is a crap layout and not the most comfortable ride (or interesting for leisure customers). Everything is highlighting driving is the best way to get around. Direct travel where possible, using one mode of transport, with no waiting in the cold, and no ticket confusion and being forced to use companies or modes against your wishes.
(15 Jan 2022, 2:32 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]Integrated ticketing for bus and Metro would be required. Changing mode to go one station is ridiculous and makes journey times longer and indirect. Some people actually prefer buses as the Metro is a crap layout and not the most comfortable ride (or interesting for leisure customers). Everything is highlighting driving is the best way to get around. Direct travel where possible, using one mode of transport, with no waiting in the cold, and no ticket confusion and being forced to use companies or modes against your wishes.
There's a very minority (most seem to be on here) who prefer to use buses over trams or trains especially considering they have a dedicated track so aren't suspect to delays (usually). In almost every country in Europe you won't have 25 buses travelling past a Metro/tram station to do the identical route. People just happily change and it helps that they're actually integrated in the sense the Metro turns up, you walk up the stairs and the bus is waiting for you.
Also since everyone is using the trams then they can run every 5 minutes or so since demand is there. Gateshead has much better waiting facilities than anywhere in Newcastle and at the same time Newcastle would be a much more pleasant place to visit if you removed the buses stinking up the likes of Market Street or Blackett Street.
UK transport sucks in comparison to our European neighbours in general though.
(14 Jan 2022, 5:37 pm)Bazza wrote [ -> ]If they got rid of that big circular carpark and discouraged cars entering Newcastle from Barras Bridge, that would be a start.
A park and ride service from the north end of Newcastle would be ideal. Maybe taking in Gosforth High Street too, where cars would also be banned from.
Was that a flying pig I saw?
Definitely a flying pig! It'll never happen. The CAZ would have been the perfect opportunity to work towards that, but Councillors know that it'd be electoral suicide for whichever administration makes it.
An integrated Park and Ride is a must. Sure, there's places to park at some of the Metro stations, but it's not integrated and can work out a lot more expensive than taking the car into the City Centre and parking. Heworth for example is £2.50 for up to 12 hours in the long stay, but there's then £3.85 on the Metro, by which time there are cheaper options for parking in Newcastle.
There's also the matter of public transport being largely unsuitable for anyone going shopping. If I was to go to Eldon Square any maybe end up with a few bags from a few clothing shops, then where do I put them on the bus? The Streetdecks on the X1 for example, have no luggage space whatsoever to put anything more than a small bag or rucksack.
(15 Jan 2022, 8:52 am)54APhotography wrote [ -> ]Incredibly that eyesore of a carpark is listed.. Newcastle City Council didn't care about the old city that had grade II and III listing, but say this is art? The whole lot should go, the only private cars that should be in the City are those of the people who live in the apartments above..
Is the carpark listing relatively new? I can't see it on the map here:
https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/t...sults=True
It wouldn't surprise me if someone did apply to have it listed, and less so if it was approved!
Few surprising comments on this thread.
- While I agree alternations could be make for increased stands at Eldon Square and Haymarket bus stations I don’t think just one large bus station for the city would be good.
Increased cross-city services could reduce the need for bus station stands. We have a few cross-city east-west services but no cross-city north-south services.
- Obviously a third bus station for the city centre would be great. I just don’t know where we’d fit one without taking up prime development land, while still being in a central enough area that passengers would be happy for their services to terminate at.
Maybe a crescent moon shaped bus station around the West & North sides of the 55° Degrees North roundabout, with two way traffic diverted around the South & East sides. But then again on the SkyscraperCity forum we’ve discussed this area being a good spot for a large public square and a bus station isn’t as an attractive option for the majority.
Pilgrim Street’s busy bus stops often cause congestion on the pavements and disrupts north-south pedestrian flow. Obviously this will be solved through the City Centre Transformation plans when buses are removed from this street and adjoining New Bridge Street West.
Additional bus stops and improved shelters are planned for the bus loop, namely John Dobson Street south and Market Street East & West.
- I don’t think Market Street is a dump as some have made out.
There is some nice architecture along there of varying styles. Granted Market Street East can be a bit quiet, but once the large Pilgrims Quarter, Pilgrims Place and Bank House developments are complete there should be more active frontages on the surrounding streets and increased footfall as the city centre regrows southwards.
(15 Jan 2022, 6:54 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Definitely a flying pig! It'll never happen. The CAZ would have been the perfect opportunity to work towards that, but Councillors know that it'd be electoral suicide for whichever administration makes it.
An integrated Park and Ride is a must. Sure, there's places to park at some of the Metro stations, but it's not integrated and can work out a lot more expensive than taking the car into the City Centre and parking. Heworth for example is £2.50 for up to 12 hours in the long stay, but there's then £3.85 on the Metro, by which time there are cheaper options for parking in Newcastle.
There's also the matter of public transport being largely unsuitable for anyone going shopping. If I was to go to Eldon Square any maybe end up with a few bags from a few clothing shops, then where do I put them on the bus? The Streetdecks on the X1 for example, have no luggage space whatsoever to put anything more than a small bag or rucksack.
Is the carpark listing relatively new? I can't see it on the map here: https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/t...sults=True
It wouldn't surprise me if someone did apply to have it listed, and less so if it was approved!
The carpark was under some sort of modern architectural art listing applied for, not sure if it was Newcastle City Council. It was 2017/8 so may have been disapproved as there has been cuts to listings under this regime, predominantly for the benefit of developers.
To be fair this are would make better sense than the speculation of the popularity pilgrim quarter.
(15 Jan 2022, 9:14 pm)ne14ne1 wrote [ -> ]Few surprising comments on this thread.
- While I agree alternations could be make for increased stands at Eldon Square and Haymarket bus stations I don’t think just one large bus station for the city would be good.
Increased cross-city services could reduce the need for bus station stands. We have a few cross-city east-west services but no cross-city north-south services.
- Obviously a third bus station for the city centre would be great. I just don’t know where we’d fit one without taking up prime development land, while still being in a central enough area that passengers would be happy for their services to terminate at.
Maybe a crescent moon shaped bus station around the West & North sides of the 55° Degrees North roundabout, with two way traffic diverted around the South & East sides. But then again on the SkyscraperCity forum we’ve discussed this area being a good spot for a large public square and a bus station isn’t as an attractive option for the majority.
Pilgrim Street’s busy bus stops often cause congestion on the pavements and disrupts north-south pedestrian flow. Obviously this will be solved through the City Centre Transformation plans when buses are removed from this street and adjoining New Bridge Street West.
Additional bus stops and improved shelters are planned for the bus loop, namely John Dobson Street south and Market Street East & West.
- I don’t think Market Street is a dump as some have made out.
There is some nice architecture along there of varying styles. Granted Market Street East can be a bit quiet, but once the large Pilgrims Quarter, Pilgrims Place and Bank House developments are complete there should be more active frontages on the surrounding streets and increased footfall as the city centre regrows southwards.
Market street architecturally is superb, but is down at heel and the condition of the pavement and road reflect this markedly. With so much empty office space right there, the current plans for development and DWP move just push it further out. The court is sat unused, the floorspace on Market Street East alone could absorb much of what the city council want.
The street has to be narrowed and made bus only, shelters and displays put in and paths widened, and that's a bare minimum.
got the bus straight after the match on Saturday from here. Loads of buses standing so when ours arrived we had to walk passed several buses to get to ours. then you had the people who couldn't walk quickly moaning that the ones who had waited ages were the last to get on so i let everyone on before me. Then when he pulled away he had to stop at the lights and let several other passenger on who from from they said to the driver hadn't seen the bus number when he was parked at the bottom and expected him to shuffle up to the correct stop!"
Add to that the lack of bus shelter and the stat of the pavement it nots the greatest place to catch a bus from!
(18 Jan 2022, 9:51 am)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]got the bus straight after the match on Saturday from here. Loads of buses standing so when ours arrived we had to walk passed several buses to get to ours. then you had the people who couldn't walk quickly moaning that the ones who had waited ages were the last to get on so i let everyone on before me. Then when he pulled away he had to stop at the lights and let several other passenger on who from from they said to the driver hadn't seen the bus number when he was parked at the bottom and expected him to shuffle up to the correct stop!"
Add to that the lack of bus shelter and the stat of the pavement it nots the greatest place to catch a bus from!
Is the pavement uneven or just narrow?
(18 Jan 2022, 9:55 am)ne14ne1 wrote [ -> ]Is the pavement uneven or just narrow?
Both. especially when there must have been 50 plus people waiting for different buses.
(18 Jan 2022, 10:07 am)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]Both. especially when there must have been 50 plus people waiting for different buses.
Hmm. Not sure if much can be done about the narrow pavement. Maybe GNE could change a few stopping arrangements around if two stops together are always rammed.
Any uneven paving can be easily rectified though. Simply report it to NCC:
https://envirocallservice.newcastle.gov.uk/pavements
My mate actually works for them and i told him about the footpath so hopefully that will get looked at and sorted. But the bus shelter is the main thing for me. should be a double, if not treble on there for the number of buses serving the stop. Its just a shame they couldn't build a bus station in theta area... say worswick street?
(18 Jan 2022, 11:06 am)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]My mate actually works for them and i told him about the footpath so hopefully that will get looked at and sorted. But the bus shelter is the main thing for me. should be a double, if not treble on there for the number of buses serving the stop. Its just a shame they couldn't build a bus station in theta area... say worswick street?
Yeah, just no room once the Pilgrims Place development is built on the old bus station site.
(18 Jan 2022, 11:06 am)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]My mate actually works for them and i told him about the footpath so hopefully that will get looked at and sorted. But the bus shelter is the main thing for me. should be a double, if not treble on there for the number of buses serving the stop. Its just a shame they couldn't build a bus station in theta area... say worswick street?
Do all those buses need to be serving Market St or the town in general all of the time?
I'd argue that they don't, beyond the peaks or if there's a match on.
Saw 4 empty deckers following each other over the Tyne Bridge the other night. There was an X1, 56 and a 58 amongst them.
Guessing they had been following each other a good few miles before getting to the Tyne Bridge. No doubt the 56 and 58 followed each other back out over the High Level Bridge and back up Old Durham Road too.
Just like the 51 and 27 a few minutes later. Substitute Old Durham Road for Sunderland Road...
(18 Jan 2022, 12:08 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Do all those buses need to be serving Market St or the town in general all of the time?
I'd argue that they don't, beyond the peaks or if there's a match on.
Saw 4 empty deckers following each other over the Tyne Bridge the other night. There was an X1, 56 and a 58 amongst them.
Guessing they had been following each other a good few miles before getting to the Tyne Bridge. No doubt the 56 and 58 followed each other back out over the High Level Bridge and back up Old Durham Road too.
Just like the 51 and 27 a few minutes later. Substitute Old Durham Road for Sunderland Road...
I dared to mention when i first posted on this board that more GNE buses could terminate at gateshead then either have a shuttle bus or god forbid use the metro to get customers into town. Got shot down in flames..............
(18 Jan 2022, 1:29 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]I dared to mention when i first posted on this board that more GNE buses could terminate at gateshead then either have a shuttle bus or god forbid use the metro to get customers into town. Got shot down in flames..............
It's pointless suggesting the Metro on here since it's not a bus. Some on here if they got their own way would rip up the tracks and replace the trains with buses. There's no need for half the buses going across the Tyne and they're the major cause of pollution in Newcastle (not cars).
It doesn't help that everything is timetabled at the same time then there's nothing for a bit especially in the evening in places. Not sure if it's like that down there but wouldn't surprise me.
I know at Haymarket the 43, 54, X9, X10, X21/X22 are all identical times (15/45) which follow each other along Gosforth High Street causing bother at the stops. Then there's barely nothing for the next 15 minutes until it starts again at 00/30. It's why it's always gridlock at the same times as everything leaves together.
(18 Jan 2022, 1:55 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]It's pointless suggesting the Metro on here since it's not a bus. Some on here if they got their own way would rip up the tracks and replace the trains with buses. There's no need for half the buses going across the Tyne and they're the major cause of pollution in Newcastle (not cars).
It doesn't help that everything is timetabled at the same time then there's nothing for a bit especially in the evening in places. Not sure if it's like that down there but wouldn't surprise me.
I know at Haymarket the 43, 54, X9, X10, X21/X22 are all identical times (15/45) which follow each other along Gosforth High Street causing bother at the stops. Then there's barely nothing for the next 15 minutes until it starts again at 00/30. It's why it's always gridlock at the same times as everything leaves together.
Really?
(18 Jan 2022, 1:55 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]It's pointless suggesting the Metro on here since it's not a bus. Some on here if they got their own way would rip up the tracks and replace the trains with buses. There's no need for half the buses going across the Tyne and they're the major cause of pollution in Newcastle (not cars).
It doesn't help that everything is timetabled at the same time then there's nothing for a bit especially in the evening in places. Not sure if it's like that down there but wouldn't surprise me.
I know at Haymarket the 43, 54, X9, X10, X21/X22 are all identical times (15/45) which follow each other along Gosforth High Street causing bother at the stops. Then there's barely nothing for the next 15 minutes until it starts again at 00/30. It's why it's always gridlock at the same times as everything leaves together.
thats a bit like the 28, 56 , 57 and x1 that all seem to leave wreckenton just before the hour mark when customers normally finish on the hour.
(18 Jan 2022, 2:23 pm)Bazza wrote [ -> ]Really?
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...n-15893433
Theres plenty buses where the hot spots are.
(18 Jan 2022, 1:55 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]It's pointless suggesting the Metro on here since it's not a bus. Some on here if they got their own way would rip up the tracks and replace the trains with buses. There's no need for half the buses going across the Tyne and they're the major cause of pollution in Newcastle (not cars).
It doesn't help that everything is timetabled at the same time then there's nothing for a bit especially in the evening in places. Not sure if it's like that down there but wouldn't surprise me.
I know at Haymarket the 43, 54, X9, X10, X21/X22 are all identical times (15/45) which follow each other along Gosforth High Street causing bother at the stops. Then there's barely nothing for the next 15 minutes until it starts again at 00/30. It's why it's always gridlock at the same times as everything leaves together.
Chester can be similar.
It's been well known that the 21 arrived from Newcastle AFTER the 34 or 78 had left to go up to Waldridge or Lumley on an evening or Sunday.
Not sure if it was ever fixed, but there's the 8 and 50 that always left at similar times.
(18 Jan 2022, 2:51 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...n-15893433
Theres plenty buses where the hot spots are.
Chester can be similar.
It's been well known that the 21 arrived from Newcastle AFTER the 34 or 78 had left to go up to Waldridge or Lumley on an evening or Sunday.
Not sure if it was ever fixed, but there's the 8 and 50 that always left at similar times.
Plenty of other traffic too.
It’s common sense that one bus is going to be more polluting than one car. It’s the number of cars that that bus can replace that’s the important figure.
A quick Google brings up some stats that a bus carrying average occupancy of nine passengers is more polluting than a car with average occupancy of 1.57 people.
(18 Jan 2022, 5:46 pm)Bazza wrote [ -> ]Plenty of other traffic too.
It’s common sense that one bus is going to be more polluting than one car. It’s the number of cars that that bus can replace that’s the important figure.
A quick Google brings up some stats that a bus carrying average occupancy of nine passengers is more polluting than a car with average occupancy of 1.57 people.
yeah -
https://www.newcastle.gov.uk/sites/defau...202021.pdf (Page 28)
Some of the worst readings are in bus only or very very limited car areas. DT65 being the worst which is on Blackett Street. They're also the ones which are nearest people so they're more important than say Scotswood Road.
DT8/20/21 are Market Street
DT29/30/31 are Percy Street
DT7/64/65 are Blackett Street
DT6 is John Dobson Street
DT5 is St Mary's Place
Very hard to blame any of those on cars as there isn't any down those roads or very few. They were all up there with the worst last year infact DT29/30/31 and DT65 were last year other than the Tyne Bridge.
They're much worse than the likes of DT85/86 which are St James' Boulevard or DT91/92 which are Scotswood Road (some double).
(18 Jan 2022, 5:46 pm)Bazza wrote [ -> ]Plenty of other traffic too.
It’s common sense that one bus is going to be more polluting than one car. It’s the number of cars that that bus can replace that’s the important figure.
A quick Google brings up some stats that a bus carrying average occupancy of nine passengers is more polluting than a car with average occupancy of 1.57 people.
Not really. Especially when you consider the majority are bus only.
(18 Jan 2022, 5:46 pm)Bazza wrote [ -> ]A quick Google brings up some stats that a bus carrying average occupancy of nine passengers is more polluting than a car with average occupancy of 1.57 people.
I'm not sure I believe this. You're telling me a Streetlite with 9 people on is more polluting than the average car? Rubbish.