This was a tiny mention as a far off prospect in the BSIP, and has been mentioned again as a long term goal in the aftermath of the postponement of Black Street pedestrian.
If Waitrose is anything to go by, Marks and Spencer are sure to close their Eldon Square store soon, so I think the time is right to partner with Eldon Square to draw up plans for a single bus station that occupies the current footprint of the store, corkscrew car park and the two current bus stations.
This could surely accommodate all Newcastle services, cross town and terminators, using Percy Street, Great North Road and Durant Road as the access routes.
Serving Central Station would have to be a secondary concern, as it arguably already is now.
It's not ideal, but developing retail and parking over the top of this larger apron is the common way these days of funding such large projects.
Layover parking would perhaps have to be moved elsewhere, but that's not exactly an insurmountable problem.
Such a project surely fits the present priorities of reducing car usage (especially private commuter parking and city centre residential parking), increasing bus use (one station over the Metro being ideal for a future franchise), and it definitely allows the pedestrianisation and cycling up of Blacket Street and more besides. It may even suit a further change in use of Eldon Square from retail to leisure and residential, perhaps even start-up space in partnership with the university.
Stick a solar wind turbine farm on the roof for opportunity charging and heating, you will perhaps even have the Greens ready to support it.
Far off into the future, it will be an ideal hub for driverless personal transport pods (and the HyperLoop station on the East Coast Main Tunnel).
Really each company should really have there own bus station/bus hub.
Arriva Haymarket
Go North East Eldon Square (extend it)
Blacklett Street (Stagecoach)
They are all within 5 mins of walking from each other,
(15 Oct 2022, 5:00 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]Really each company should really have there own bus station/bus hub.
Arriva Haymarket
Go North East Eldon Square (extend it)
Blacklett Street (Stagecoach)
They are all within 5 mins of walking from each other,
That sounds like an absolutely awful idea. We need to make the network as seamless as possible!
(15 Oct 2022, 5:08 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]That sounds like an absolutely awful idea. We need to make the network as seamless as possible!
Thats not going to happen with 3+ different companies, There is no room for a bus station, tho where they are doing the construction at new Bridge street would possibly be an excellent place it isn't going to happen.
Ideally you would a mix of bus stations like Gateshead & Eldon Square put together, with a certain amount of stops for buses to pass through either way, and a certain amount of stops for buses to Terminate at. However the traffic would be atrocious.
(15 Oct 2022, 5:00 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]They are all within 5 mins of walking from each other,
For able bodied people without luggage or kids perhaps.
Even as an able bodied man with all my wits who always travels light, the hassle involved in transferring from Eldon to Haymarket or St Thomas for that matter, is a Royal pain in the ass.
Always budget a minimum of five minutes, even for that, certainly if you like not being stressed of a morning/evening.
A late running arrival and a unionised driver feeling no shame in departing early if it suits his work/life balance, that soon needs to be ten minutes, planning wise. Ridiculous for supposedly adjacent terminals.
As for one company one station, you do realise independents are still theoretically allowed to run services in Newcastle? And that multi operator tickets are a thing (for the super rich).
A driver being in a union and a driver running early are two independent things tho...
(15 Oct 2022, 5:52 pm)F114TML wrote [ -> ]A driver being in a union and a driver running early are two independent things tho...
I presume not, given the guilty driver usually looks time served and well versed in their
rights (but not their obligations).
(15 Oct 2022, 4:41 pm)Starscream wrote [ -> ]This was a tiny mention as a far off prospect in the BSIP, and has been mentioned again as a long term goal in the aftermath of the postponement of Black Street pedestrian.
If Waitrose is anything to go by, Marks and Spencer are sure to close their Eldon Square store soon, so I think the time is right to partner with Eldon Square to draw up plans for a single bus station that occupies the current footprint of the store, corkscrew car park and the two current bus stations.
This could surely accommodate all Newcastle services, cross town and terminators, using Percy Street, Great North Road and Durant Road as the access routes.
Serving Central Station would have to be a secondary concern, as it arguably already is now.
It's not ideal, but developing retail and parking over the top of this larger apron is the common way these days of funding such large projects.
Layover parking would perhaps have to be moved elsewhere, but that's not exactly an insurmountable problem.
Such a project surely fits the present priorities of reducing car usage (especially private commuter parking and city centre residential parking), increasing bus use (one station over the Metro being ideal for a future franchise), and it definitely allows the pedestrianisation and cycling up of Blacket Street and more besides. It may even suit a further change in use of Eldon Square from retail to leisure and residential, perhaps even start-up space in partnership with the university.
Stick a solar wind turbine farm on the roof for opportunity charging and heating, you will perhaps even have the Greens ready to support it.
Far off into the future, it will be an ideal hub for driverless personal transport pods (and the HyperLoop station on the East Coast Main Tunnel).
Marks and Spencer in Newcastle 100% won't be closing. It's one of their flagship stores and the Food Hall is one of the top performers in the country (used to be the top at one point).
It's why it constantly gets refurbishments and anything new in it. It's just recently had a new opticians put into it aswell which pretty much confirms it isn't going anywhere.
If there's another bus station it needs to be to the South of the city to stop Gateshead and/or Metro Centre buses trundling across the city. If you really want one near Eldon Square built it opposite on Eldon Garden it's a waste of space, the temporary buildings which have been there for decades and on the open car park round the back there's enough space for it.
(15 Oct 2022, 5:42 pm)Starscream wrote [ -> ]For able bodied people without luggage or kids perhaps.
Even as an able bodied man with all my wits who always travels light, the hassle involved in transferring from Eldon to Haymarket or St Thomas for that matter, is a Royal pain in the ass.
Always budget a minimum of five minutes, even for that, certainly if you like not being stressed of a morning/evening.
A late running arrival and a unionised driver feeling no shame in departing early if it suits his work/life balance, that soon needs to be ten minutes, planning wise. Ridiculous for supposedly adjacent terminals.
As for one company one station, you do realise independents are still theoretically allowed to run services in Newcastle? And that multi operator tickets are a thing (for the super rich).
Haymarket to Eldon Sq is probably easier than walking from one side of Gateshead Interchange to the other, I do it regularly and have never found it a problem.
(15 Oct 2022, 5:00 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]Really each company should really have there own bus station/bus hub.
Arriva Haymarket
Go North East Eldon Square (extend it)
Blacklett Street (Stagecoach)
They are all within 5 mins of walking from each other,
Except that we have both Arriva and Go-Ahead linking Newcastle with Durham and Whitley Bay for example.
So, it is unlikely to work having buses split according to operator.
Admittedly, enthusiasts of any 1 company in particular would enjoy having all their choices of buses run from a single bus station.
(16 Oct 2022, 10:07 am)Metroline1511 wrote [ -> ]Admittedly, enthusiasts of any 1 company in particular would enjoy having all their choices of buses run from a single bus station.
I think not. Imagine how bland Eldon Square would be, especially if Stagecoach could paint their vehicles in a timely fashion. Haymarket already lacks the former Arriva hallmark of a smattering of rare vehicles, and even laughing at how much they really don't care about having a branded fleet with nearly every bus on the wrong route, is becoming boring. Having also lost a lot of rarity, certainly on Newcastle routes, the only fun at GNE's station would be to see how rubbish their latest brand is.
If you owned a bus company would you pay a fee for each bus timetabled to use the bus station, the fees will rack up over the year, that’s mostly why stagecoach pulled out of Sunderland Interchange plus the added times to the timetable to divert the bus to and from the interchange, plus most passengers would board and alight from Vine Place/Holmside/John St and Fawcett street anyway, the same goes to Newcastle and other city/town centres.
(15 Oct 2022, 6:51 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Marks and Spencer in Newcastle 100% won't be closing. It's one of their flagship stores and the Food Hall is one of the top performers in the country (used to be the top at one point).
It's why it constantly gets refurbishments and anything new in it. It's just recently had a new opticians put into it aswell which pretty much confirms it isn't going anywhere.
If there's another bus station it needs to be to the South of the city to stop Gateshead and/or Metro Centre buses trundling across the city. If you really want one near Eldon Square built it opposite on Eldon Garden it's a waste of space, the temporary buildings which have been there for decades and on the open car park round the back there's enough space for it.
If true, then Marks can move into the whole first floor of this new station. It would be huge.
Eldon Garden is too far from the Metro (which can be fully integrated into this new station in this plan, knocking down the ridiculous current building).
Far better to revamp the west side plot as leisure and residential, the key selling point being a pedestrian bridge linking it to Newcastle's brand new bus/Metro interchange.
Alternatively, albeit unlikely to win any cost-benefit calculations, but extremely useful from a practical standpoint, turn it into a coach terminal and local bus parking.
(15 Oct 2022, 6:51 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Marks and Spencer in Newcastle 100% won't be closing. It's one of their flagship stores and the Food Hall is one of the top performers in the country (used to be the top at one point).
It's why it constantly gets refurbishments and anything new in it. It's just recently had a new opticians put into it aswell which pretty much confirms it isn't going anywhere.
If there's another bus station it needs to be to the South of the city to stop Gateshead and/or Metro Centre buses trundling across the city. If you really want one near Eldon Square built it opposite on Eldon Garden it's a waste of space, the temporary buildings which have been there for decades and on the open car park round the back there's enough space for it.
I hope your not saying get rid of the three bulls!!
(16 Oct 2022, 2:07 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]If you owned a bus company would you pay a fee for each bus timetabled to use the bus station, the fees will rack up over the year, that’s mostly why stagecoach pulled out of Sunderland Interchange plus the added times to the timetable to divert the bus to and from the interchange, plus most passengers would board and alight from Vine Place/Holmside/John St and Fawcett street anyway, the same goes to Newcastle and other city/town centres.
Ideally this station project would involve operator commitment from the outset, and in doing so would be unlikely to have to pay anything (in the same way they don't have to pay for kerb enhancements in Quality Partnerships).
Alternatively, these days, they can easily be forced to use it, it being clear such a project only goes ahead after an Inquiry, which will see the merits of a single interchange and thus authorise the council to pedestrianise Blackett Street and make whatever other changes needed to ensure Stagecoach had no other realistic option, except run every bus to or past Central Station, which would hardly be a bad thing.
All that goes against my liberal instincts, so I'd rather believe Stagecoach could be quite easily convinced of the benefis of having all their services meeting each other in one single place in town, with no discernable loss of time or increase in mileage that I can see.
We're talking at most a doubling of the number of buses using the streets in the top end of town at any one time, I guestimate, with half of those still only quickly passing through a la Blackett Street.
Easily achieved, with a worst case scenario being to make those streets a mix of bus only or one way, with lots of capacity freed up in the southern steeets to accommodate the displaced private traffic.
(16 Oct 2022, 2:30 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]I hope your not saying get rid of the three bulls!!
Wasn't exactly a hive of activity the last time I was there, popping in after work on a Champions League night. Closing at ten on weekdays and pretty quiet at weekends, all adds up to a motivated seller if you ask me. The old soaks can gan doon the Bigg Market for their Saturday afternoon half a milds.
(15 Oct 2022, 6:51 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ] it needs to be to the South of the city to stop Gateshead and/or Metro Centre buses trundling across the city.
That ship has sailed, the people voted with their feet the second they were given a choice.
Passengers value their time most of all. Anything the council can do to ensure as many interchanges are posssible in any given hour, it is their duty to do so.
Efficient use of road space and rail paths must always be secondary to providing an attractive alternative to the car. A mode of transport which requires zero interchanges, a benefit we already know people will exchange hard cash and walking distance for.
(16 Oct 2022, 2:30 pm)Starscream wrote [ -> ]Ideally this station project would involve operator commitment from the outset, and in doing so would be unlikely to have to pay anything (in the same way they don't have to pay for kerb enhancements in Quality Partnerships).
Alternatively, these days, they can easily be forced to use it, it being clear such a project only goes ahead after an Inquiry, which will see the merits of a single interchange and thus authorise the council to pedestrianise Blackett Street and make whatever other changes needed to ensure Stagecoach had no other realistic option, except run every bus to or past Central Station, which would hardly be a bad thing.
All that goes against my liberal instincts, so I'd rather believe Stagecoach could be quite easily convinced of the benefis of having all their services meeting each other in one single place in town, with no discernable loss of time or increase in mileage that I can see.
We're talking at most a doubling of the number of buses using the streets in the top end of town at any one time, I guestimate, with half of those still only quickly passing through a la Blackett Street.
Easily achieved, with a worst case scenario being to make those streets a mix of bus only or one way, with lots of capacity freed up in the southern steeets to accommodate the displaced private traffic.
Wasn't exactly a hive of activity the last time I was there, popping in after work on a Champions League night. Closing at ten on weekdays and pretty quiet at weekends, all adds up to a motivated seller if you ask me. The old soaks can gan doon the Bigg Market for their Saturday afternoon half a milds.
Is this thread started because the council are pedestrianising Blackett street?.
You can’t force the bus company to use a bus station, don’t forget from Dereg bus operators can run where there like [emoji23]
You should run for the next PM, you would do good forcing bus companies to use bus stations [emoji106][emoji848]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(16 Oct 2022, 3:04 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]You can’t force the bus company to use a bus station, don’t forget from Dereg bus operators can run where there like [emoji23]
You can do a whole lot of things under current legislation. It's a far cry from the 87 Act.
The nuclear option being, if Stagecoach refuses to even consider the merits of getting free access to the publicly provided station as long as they run the agreed services, to offer voters a stark choice - a new bus station with a franchised bus operator, or the status quo.
(16 Oct 2022, 3:04 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]Is this thread started because the council are pedestrianising Blackett street?
Yes.....
The council said it would now “work with bus operators and other stakeholders” on revised plans, potentially including a new bus station in the city, but would “still be prepared to go to public inquiry in the future”.
(16 Oct 2022, 3:04 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]You should run for the next PM, you would do good forcing bus companies to use bus stations [emoji106][emoji848]
It worked for Boris.
Stagecoach Manchester didn't want to do what Andy Burnham wanted them to do, citing their freedoms as a commercial operator, so he has used the powers given to him by Boris and his whopping majority to fuck them off out of the city entirely.