North East Buses

Didn't want to drag other threads off topic but I think we can all agree that it's not working currently with bus services mostly carting around fresh air or doing the same thing which doesn't work for years especially in North Tyneside so it got me thinking of ways to improve it and came up with:

New 42 (Every 30 Minutes Monday to Saturday Day Times, Every Hour Sunday and Evenings)
North Shields - Royal Quays - East Howdon - Howdon - Holy Cross - Wallsend - West Street - Forest Hall - Killingworth Village - Killingworth
Map - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Killingw...90!1m0!3e0

New 50 (Every 30 Minutes Monday to Saturday Day Times, Every Hour Sunday and Evenings)
Whitley Bay - Whitley Lodge - Sainsbury's Whitley Bay - Earsdon - Shiremoor - Northumberland Park - Backworth - Killingworth - West Moor - Quorum - South Gosforth - Gosforth - Newcastle
Map - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.04191...dd!1m0!3e0

New 51 (Every 30 Minutes Monday to Saturday Day Times, Every Hour Sunday and Evenings)
North Shields - QA College - Preston - Tynemouth Morrisons - Malvern Road - NT Hospital - Cobalt - West Allotment - Holystone - ASDA Benton - Four Lane Ends - Longbenton - South Gosforth - Gosforth
Map - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.00869...9e!1m0!3e0

W1 - Current Timetable

342 - Renumbered 74, Killingworth to Newbiggin Hall only (Hourly)

317 - Withdrawn, replaced partially by 42 and 51
K2 - Withdrawn, replaced partially by 42 and 50
51 (need to discuss with Arriva) - Withdrawn, replaced partially by 50 and 51
335 - Withdrawn, replaced partially by 42, 50 and 51
W2 - Withdrawn, replaced by 50
54 (need to discuss with Arriva) - Withdrawn, replaced partially by 50 and 51

New PVR
50/51 - 10 (Full Size)
W1 - 1 (Breadvan)
42 - 5 (Mini Bus)
74 - 2 (Bread Van)

Old PVR
317 - 5 (Full Size)
51/54 - 5* (Full Size)
W1 - 1 (Breadvan)
W2 - 1 (Breadvan)
335 - 3 (Mini Bus)
342 - 3 (Mini Bus)
K2 - 1 (Breadvan)

So slight reduction in PVR, admit there's a few streets now unserved and Malvern Road looses it's bus to Whitley Bay but it's not exactly far to use other services less than 100m for most and would benefit for more people, some who have a dreadful service especially places like Murton Village, North West Whitley Bay, Benton Road, Holystone, West Allotment, Backworth etc where hourly services are a waste of time.

*Recent reduction

I do agree that a rethink is needed, as the services don't work at the minute.

The 335 was a pretty popular route, especially at peak times, but Nexus ruined it by reducing the frequency from half hourly to hourly. Also not sure why the extension from Quorum to Killingworth is needed, just duplicates other routes.

(07 Jan 2023, 11:22 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Didn't want to drag other threads off topic but I think we can all agree that it's not working currently with bus services mostly carting around fresh air or doing the same thing which doesn't work for years especially in North Tyneside so it got me thinking of ways to improve it and came up with:

New 42 (Every 30 Minutes Monday to Saturday Day Times, Every Hour Sunday and Evenings)
North Shields - Royal Quays - East Howdon - Howdon - Holy Cross - Wallsend - West Street - Forest Hall - Killingworth Village - Killingworth
Map - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Killingw...90!1m0!3e0

New 50 (Every 30 Minutes Monday to Saturday Day Times, Every Hour Sunday and Evenings)
Whitley Bay - Whitley Lodge - Sainsbury's Whitley Bay - Earsdon - Shiremoor - Northumberland Park - Backworth - Killingworth - West Moor - Quorum - South Gosforth - Gosforth - Newcastle
Map - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.04191...dd!1m0!3e0

New 51 (Every 30 Minutes Monday to Saturday Day Times, Every Hour Sunday and Evenings)
North Shields - QA College - Preston - Tynemouth Morrisons - Malvern Road - NT Hospital - Cobalt - West Allotment - Holystone - ASDA Benton - Four Lane Ends - Longbenton - South Gosforth - Gosforth
Map - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.00869...9e!1m0!3e0

W1 - Current Timetable

342 - Renumbered 74, Killingworth to Newbiggin Hall only (Hourly)

317 - Withdrawn, replaced partially by 42 and 51
K2 - Withdrawn, replaced partially by 42 and 50
51 (need to discuss with Arriva) - Withdrawn, replaced partially by 50 and 51
335 - Withdrawn, replaced partially by 42, 50 and 51
W2 - Withdrawn, replaced by 50
54 (need to discuss with Arriva) - Withdrawn, replaced partially by 50 and 51

New PVR
50/51 - 10 (Full Size)
W1 - 1 (Breadvan)
42 - 5 (Mini Bus)
74 - 2 (Bread Van)

Old PVR
317 - 5 (Full Size)
51/54 - 5* (Full Size)
W1 - 1 (Breadvan)
W2 - 1 (Breadvan)
335 - 3 (Mini Bus)
342 - 3 (Mini Bus)
K2 - 1 (Breadvan)

So slight reduction in PVR, admit there's a few streets now unserved and Malvern Road looses it's bus to Whitley Bay but it's not exactly far to use other services less than 100m for most and would benefit for more people, some who have a dreadful service especially places like Murton Village, North West Whitley Bay, Benton Road, Holystone, West Allotment, Backworth etc where hourly services are a waste of time.

*Recent reduction

I think the 51 now interworks with the 43/44/45, hence more double deckers, don’t know what will happen from tomorrow though after revision.
My concern with your suggestion on the 51, you’re giving that part of the route which has fewer passengers a 30 minute frequency but withdrawing the direct bus to Newcastle for Wiltshire Drive and the still expanding housing of East Benton Rise which is the busier end. Rerouting the 311 would help in some way but East Benton Rise would be left with very little.
I agree the North Tyneside services are pretty poor but if anything, frequent services to interchanges with metro would probably help. I’ve found that using the less frequent bus to connect with Metro is fine but the return journey can be a nightmare if the train is late or waiting at the poorly served Wallsend Interchange for any length of time.

(08 Jan 2023, 11:06 am)RMF1254 wrote [ -> ]I think the 51 now interworks with the 43/44/45, hence more double deckers, don’t know what will happen from tomorrow though after revision.
My concern with your suggestion on the 51, you’re giving that part of the route which has fewer passengers a 30 minute frequency but withdrawing the direct bus to Newcastle for Wiltshire Drive and the still expanding housing of East Benton Rise which is the busier end. Rerouting the 311 would help in some way but East Benton Rise would be left with very little.
I agree the North Tyneside services are pretty poor but if anything, frequent services to interchanges with metro would probably help. I’ve found that using the less frequent bus to connect with Metro is fine but the return journey can be a nightmare if the train is late or waiting at the poorly served Wallsend Interchange for any length of time.

Is Benton Rise the new estate near where No Frills (now the Range is) if so I routed the 51 to go to the first roundabout and turn back, I didn't write on the list admittable but arguably they've got a better service, even known it takes a little longer. Personally I'd rather have a 30 minute service that takes a little longer than an hourly service that's quicker. Not to mention now having a 30 minute service to Killingworth, Wallsend and Benton Metro with the 42 aswell or now Four Lane Ends with the 51.

Admit I did miss Wiltshire Drive but it has bus services nearby and at the end of the day subsidised routes are to give places that don't have a service at all rather than topping routes up. The reason for the 51 going towards Four Lane Ends being is Front Street doesn't have any bus services hence why the 335 exists there so it was replacing that. If GNE diverted the 311 through there, then that's that issue resolved with a much better service, 3 BPH vs 1 BPH.

The 51 interworks with the 54 though and 52/53 but with the 51 being butchered in half it could complicate things. Sadly I can't see the 51 existing long between Holystone and Newcastle only, it's operationally out of area for Arriva; I also can't see the 54 lasting long being hourly either so it was about trying to make both of those actually sustainable as hourly bus services are a waste of time and money imo.

(08 Jan 2023, 12:13 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Is Benton Rise the new estate near where No Frills (now the Range is) if so I routed the 51 to go to the first roundabout and turn back, I didn't write on the list admittable but arguably they've got a better service, even known it takes a little longer. Personally I'd rather have a 30 minute service that takes a little longer than an hourly service that's quicker. Not to mention now having a 30 minute service to Killingworth, Wallsend and Benton Metro with the 42 aswell or now Four Lane Ends with the 51.

Admit I did miss Wiltshire Drive but it has bus services nearby and at the end of the day subsidised routes are to give places that don't have a service at all rather than topping routes up. The reason for the 51 going towards Four Lane Ends being is Front Street doesn't have any bus services hence why the 335 exists there so it was replacing that. If GNE diverted the 311 through there, then that's that issue resolved with a much better service, 3 BPH vs 1 BPH.

The 51 interworks with the 54 though and 52/53 but with the 51 being butchered in half it could complicate things. Sadly I can't see the 51 existing long between Holystone and Newcastle only, it's operationally out of area for Arriva; I also can't see the 54 lasting long being hourly either so it was about trying to make both of those actually sustainable as hourly bus services are a waste of time and money imo.

Seems a bit complicated to me. Are you sure it interworks with 54, last week  I caught a 51 to the Haymarket and it went out on a 43 to Morpeth.The allocation has also changed from mainly single to double deck, Enviro 400s and DB300s.

(08 Jan 2023, 12:37 pm)RMF1254 wrote [ -> ]Seems a bit complicated to me. Are you sure it interworks with 54, last week  I caught a 51 to the Haymarket and it went out on a 43 to Morpeth.The allocation has also changed from mainly single to double deck, Enviro 400s and DB300s.

I think the 51 and 52 Interwork beacuse I got the bus from Camperdown to Killingworth and then got the 51 from Whitley bay to Newcastle and it was the same bus

It seems to me that the inter working is very complicated and involves most services that used to work from Jesmond.

(08 Jan 2023, 2:35 pm)RMF1254 wrote [ -> ]It seems to me that the inter working is very complicated and involves most services that used to work from Jesmond.

Yeah believe so it should be 52 -> 53 -> 53 -> 52 -> 51 -> 51 -> 52 -> 53 -> 53 -> 52 -> 54 -> 54 -> Repeat during the week.

I'm not sure on Saturday's or Sunday's though, believe Sunday it's standalone. Can't tell what it is on a Saturday if I had to be honest - appears to interworks with the 43 / 44 / 45 like you said.

That is very complicated, it will be interesting to see what happens next week.

Sorry for misunderstanding, I think I was basing my assumption that Saturdays were the same as M-F plus my observations were mainly in the week between Christmas and New Year. Sorry for mixup!

(09 Jan 2023, 10:45 am)RMF1254 wrote [ -> ]Sorry for misunderstanding, I think I was basing my assumption that Saturdays were the same as M-F plus my observations were mainly in the week between Christmas and New Year. Sorry for mixup!

Don't worry I don't really think anyone knows who runs what on there lately especially who's running what ie whether it's Blyth or Walkergate running it.

From a contractual perspective, how do services i.e TB14, TB29, etc.. work?
Are they tendered the same way as normal secured service?
Are there any legal issues with running a commerical TaxiBus?