North East Buses

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(07 Mar 2023, 2:00 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]X6- Haymarket- Blyth
St Marys Place- Corner House- Silverlink Shopping Park- Norham Road- Beach Road- Preston Grange Morrisons- Whitley Bay Ice Rink- Whitley Bay Town Centre- Whitley Bay for St Marys Lighthouse- Hartley- Seaton Sluice- Blyth Beach- Blyth Bus Station
Thats just a skeletal structure

Is this just the 308 without going off at every single slip road?

Extend the 44 from hazlerigg to whitely bay none stop on coast road via new york and NT hospital to WB centre. Cancel route between hazlerigg and Dinnington. PVR 4 every 30 mins Monday- Saturday

(07 Mar 2023, 2:00 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]X6- Haymarket- Blyth
St Marys Place- Corner House- Silverlink Shopping Park- Norham Road- Beach Road- Preston Grange Morrisons- Whitley Bay Ice Rink- Whitley Bay Town Centre- Whitley Bay for St Marys Lighthouse- Hartley- Seaton Sluice- Blyth Beach- Blyth Bus Station
Thats just a skeletal structure

Personally if there was going to be any express route it would be better to do something like:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Newcastl...dc!1m0!3e0

It fills in the gaps in North Tyneside where buses are shockingly slow towards Newcastle where there's not a Metro alternative. Whitley Bay to Blyth is way too saturated and doesn't need anymore buses.

Pretty much everywhere on that route has a crap bus service (or a non existent one other than rubbish like the hourly 335) and it creates a link between Cullercoats - Tynemouth - North Shields Fish Quay / Ferry Terminal where people will want to travel between for leisure reasons but can't atm as it doesn't exist.

Damned if they do and damned if the dont, they will never please everyone with north tyneside even with a bus every 5 mins and ticket acceptance along the coast road, think it will be impossible to keep everyone happy

Punter moaning on FB abouth this as the 930?? 309 to town is now at 945

(08 Mar 2023, 9:40 am)N1cholas wrote [ -> ]Damned if they do and damned if the dont, they will never please everyone with north tyneside even with a bus every 5 mins and ticket acceptance along the coast road, think it will be impossible to keep everyone happy

In fairness the vast majority of North Tyneside is getting a service reduction with this unless you happen to live in Battle Hill.

Just to pick out some:
Last 306 hour earlier
306 frequency reduction
308 frequency reduction in Blyth and Billy Mill areas.
307 too slow from North Shields area with a tour of Hadrian Park.
Most areas of old 75/76 still don't have a bus in particular the Monkseaton area
Marden still don't have acceptable bus to Newcastle from the side away from the Metro

People have a right to complain. It's not their fault that there's a scrap along the Coast Road. Ticket acceptance doesn't benefit any of the above and there's no need for a bus every 10 minutes from Blyth to Whitley Bay imo.

(08 Mar 2023, 10:09 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]In fairness the vast majority of North Tyneside is getting a service reduction with this unless you happen to live in Battle Hill.

Just to pick out some:
Last 306 hour earlier
306 frequency reduction
308 frequency reduction in Blyth and Billy Mill areas.
307 too slow from North Shields area with a tour of Hadrian Park.
Most areas of old 75/76 still don't have a bus in particular the Monkseaton area
Marden still don't have acceptable bus to Newcastle from the side away from the Metro

People have a right to complain. It's not their fault that there's a scrap along the Coast Road. Ticket acceptance doesn't benefit any of the above and there's no need for a bus every 10 minutes from Blyth to Whitley Bay imo.

I'm glad someone has been able to summarise the changes. I'd started comparing, but hadn't had a chance to complete the task.

It's quite remarkable that even with a joined up project like this, there's very little joined up thinking.
A huge opportunity to press the reset button and find out what the punters living, working, studying and travelling along that corridor (whether that by car, bus, rail, bike or foot) and find out what they needed or wanted from their public transport offering.

Instead, we've got more of the same old. Just with a service that's arguably not as good.

(08 Mar 2023, 10:31 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I'm glad someone has been able to summarise the changes. I'd started comparing, but hadn't had a chance to complete the task.

It's quite remarkable that even with a joined up project like this, there's very little joined up thinking.
A huge opportunity to press the reset button and find out what the punters living, working, studying and travelling along that corridor (whether that by car, bus, rail, bike or foot) and find out what they needed or wanted from their public transport offering.

Instead, we've got more of the same old. Just with a service that's arguably not as good.

Yeah agreed. Nexus and bus operators need to sit down and come up with something about the East of the A19 in North Tyneside as the service is absolutely diabolical and it's getting worse and worse. I can't remember the last time there was a service improvement in the area.

Just to put it in context how bad it is.

Non subsidised services:
306, 307, 308

Subsidised services:
1, 51, 53, 54, 57/57A, 309

Contracted services:
10/11, 19, 317, 335, W1, W2

How long is it going to take to realise it's just not working and I'd be surprised if there's anywhere in the North East excluding rural areas as bad. The GNE network is embarrassingly bad now imo.

(08 Mar 2023, 10:09 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]To solve the following........

307 too slow from North Shields area with a tour of Hadrian Park.
- Changed to run via Wiltshire Drive, still slower but two ways in / out
- Resource re-utilised to give Wiltshire Drive a better bus service rather than a poxy hourly service
- 22 split to Cobalt / Hadrian Park every 20 mins each
- 51 kept on Station Road, evening service dropped to save money (low usage) with 307 instead covering Wiltshire Drive

Marden still don't have acceptable bus to Newcastle from the side away from the Metro
- 309 dropped between Blyth and Whitley Bay. Runs via Marden instead of Hillheads. 306 to Tynemouth only

Ticket acceptance doesn't benefit any of the above and there's no need for a bus every 10 minutes from Blyth to Whitley Bay imo.
- See last point ?

(08 Mar 2023, 11:15 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah agreed. Nexus and bus operators need to sit down and come up with something about the East of the A19 in North Tyneside as the service is absolutely diabolical and it's getting worse and worse. I can't remember the last time there was a service improvement in the area.

Just to put it in context how bad it is.

Non subsidised services:
306, 307, 308

Subsidised services:
1, 51, 53, 54, 57/57A, 309

Contracted services:
10/11, 19, 317, 335, W1, W2

How long is it going to take to realise it's just not working and I'd be surprised if there's anywhere in the North East excluding rural areas as bad. The GNE network is embarrassingly bad now imo.

The issue east of the A19 is that it's simply not very good bus operating territory.

Apart from Meadowell/North Shields and Norham Road (which are well served by Bus or Metro) it's actually one of the wealthiest parts of the region.

The attachment is the social deprivation index for that area. The darker the blue, the wealthier the area.

(08 Mar 2023, 6:17 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]The issue east of the A19 is that it's simply not very good bus operating territory.

Apart from Meadowell/North Shields and Norham Road (which are well served by Bus or Metro) it's actually one of the wealthiest parts of the region.

The attachment is the social deprivation index for that area. The darker the blue, the wealthier the area.

Aye it's fair point mind but I dunno it's just an area that needs a plan. It doesn't help there's 5 operaters currently either mind without any sensible ticketing between them other than Day Rovers.

I don't know if it's legally possible (should be) but I wish Nexus would do longer contracts and actually try to grow some of the services. Yearly contracts just give no motivation to anyone. Routes like the 19, 317 and 51 could be routes imo that have a purpose if they actually tried rather than being rump services like they are currently.

It'll be interesting if there's every scope for more cross boundary contracts like bolting the 58 and W2 together, two utterly pointless services in the main currently.

(07 Mar 2023, 4:27 pm)NEbushopper wrote [ -> ]Is this just the 308 without going off at every single slip road?

Sort of a mix between the 306 and 308

(08 Mar 2023, 9:40 am)N1cholas wrote [ -> ]Damned if they do and damned if the dont, they will never please everyone with north tyneside even with a bus every 5 mins and ticket acceptance along the coast road, think it will be impossible to keep everyone happy

Nobody is moaning, we're just saying an express going East would be nice

(08 Mar 2023, 6:33 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Aye it's fair point mind but I dunno it's just an area that needs a plan. It doesn't help there's 5 operaters currently either mind without any sensible ticketing between them other than Day Rovers.

I don't know if it's legally possible (should be) but I wish Nexus would do longer contracts and actually try to grow some of the services. Yearly contracts just give no motivation to anyone. Routes like the 19, 317 and 51 could be routes imo that have a purpose if they actually tried rather than being rump services like they are currently.

It'll be interesting if there's every scope for more cross boundary contracts like bolting the 58 and W2 together, two utterly pointless services in the main currently.

I do agree about that. I suppose the issue is that the supported network is filling the gaps when what is needed is that resource moved.

The W2 is an interesting one as I believe the consultation offered users an evening and Sunday service, something other areas would love, and the users rejected it if you believe the Chronicle! Funny old world.

For what it's worth, the Coast Road partnership seems to me like a sensible solution in the short term to a long-standing and well documented problem.

Maybe BSIP money night help. After all, that is supposed to help kickstart new routes, rather than prop up dead ones.

At the risk of sounding like Roger French, it's disappointing there is ZERO publicity at stands L and M to advise customers they can get on either bus operator. I suppose people are just supposed to know!

Both the 306/308 should track on the GNE section of Bus Times, aswell on the GNE App and vice versa

(26 Mar 2023, 8:12 am)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]At the risk of sounding like Roger French, it's disappointing there is ZERO publicity at stands L and M to advise customers they can get on either bus operator. I suppose people are just supposed to know!

Realistically, the barriers separating L & M should be lifted given now all services are working in partnership & coordinating.

The new agreement has worked perfectly today. Some passengers wating on the 309 have had to get on the 306 due to a full queue. It's working well from what I'm seeing

(11 Apr 2023, 3:40 pm)Aaron21 wrote [ -> ]The new agreement has worked perfectly today. Some passengers wating on the 309 have had to get on the 306 due to a full queue. It's working well from what I'm seeing

That's good to see especially passenger loads being good too!

On another note, I've done some messing around on MS Excel working how the evening 308 & 309 could be better coordinated throughout as currently, there's a 45 minute gap and with the exception of the two last journeys of the night, no even (or relatively even) headway at each side of the hour.

The following would do exactly that whilst keeping both Arriva's & GNE's working patterns pretty much the same and no PVR increases.

Arriva:
- Evening 306 & 308 journeys re-timed to operate 5 minutes later.

- Evening & Sunday X10 & X11 journeys re-timed to operate 5 minutes later (note that evening X10/X11 now interworks with 306)

Go North East:
- With the exception of a small number of late evening 307 journeys, no changes to departures ex Blyth or North Shields.

- Evening 307 & 309 journeys re-timed to operate 10 minutes later ex Newcastle.

- Last 309 journey ex Newcastle operates 5 minutes later departing at 2350.

- Last 307 journeys depart North Shields at 2140 (re-timed by two minutes between North Shields & Hadrian Park), 2255 and 2355.

So departures would work as follows:
308 & 309 ex Blyth - xx:19 & xx:50
308 & 309 arr Newcastle - xx:15 & xx:55
308 & 309 ex Newcastle - xx:20 & xx:40
308 & 309 arr Blyth - xx:14 & xx:42

All services ex Haymarket:
307 - xx:10
308 - xx:20
309 - xx:40
306 - xx:50

Its understanding why the agreement must say they be deckers. 306 branding Pulsar passed me and it was full heading towards Newcastle (passing through Tynemouth). I can understand why there is a shortage of decekrs & singles are put on the 306/308 as I don't think there is enough decekrs to be put on the 306/308 alongside the 43/44/45/X7/8/9/10/11. It makes me wonder maybe that's the reason 7524/25/26 transfer to Walkergate

They could have sorted the stands out at Blyth Bus Station. The 309 still departs at the opposite end to the 308. So much for partnership working

(16 Apr 2023, 3:52 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]They could have sorted the stands out at Blyth Bus Station. The 309 still departs at the opposite end to the 308. So much for partnership working

Idk how that's a problem. Why would they move the 308 & 309 closer to each other at Blyth. The 306 & 307 don't stop near each other at North Shields. Newcastle is understanding as they were like that before the agreement

(16 Apr 2023, 4:22 pm)Aaron21 wrote [ -> ]Idk how that's a problem. Why would they move the 308 & 309 closer to each other at Blyth. The 306 & 307 don't stop near each other at North Shields. Newcastle is understanding as they were like that before the agreement

Obviously it would make sense to have services going in the same direction along a similar route to depart from the same stand - that's not rocket science.

(16 Apr 2023, 4:22 pm)Aaron21 wrote [ -> ]Idk how that's a problem. Why would they move the 308 & 309 closer to each other at Blyth. The 306 & 307 don't stop near each other at North Shields. Newcastle is understanding as they were like that before the agreement

They just need to swap the X9 stand with the 1/308 stand and the 308 and 309 will be next to each other. its that simple, and nobody appears to have thought about it.

It's just stinks to me of officers at all the organisations involved doing everything they need to do for some back-patting apart the one thing that matters.....telling the public all about it.

Apart from some A4 posters on some buses, there has been nothing.zilch. No specially branded roadside timetable displays at bus stops or bus stations, no printed publicity, they've not even bothered to remove the barriers between the 308 and 309 stands at Haymarket. No 'launch'/event. It just looks like the QA is an excuse to cut frequencies with cross ticketing thrown in. They could have least as dressed it up!

Rant over.

(16 Apr 2023, 3:52 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]They could have sorted the stands out at Blyth Bus Station. The 309 still departs at the opposite end to the 308. So much for partnership working

Depends where people are going, the X7/X8/309 are the same bus route give or take out of Blyth. How many people realistically are going to travelling beyond Whitley Bay to Newcastle, it's a long detour when the X10/X11 exist.

The X7/X8/309 should be all next to each other and so should the 1/2/X9 so it's not just the 308/309. None of them are atm either but good luck trying to do that (I just tried).

Best I'd say is

Stand 1: X10/X11/X30(NCL)
Stand 3: X7/X8
Stand 4: 308/309
Stand 5: X9
Stand 6: 1/2/X30(Cowpen)
WB: Abandoned

It should be doable after all the cuts. Agreed it's a mess now mind, the X7 and X8 is the worst, least the 308/309 are on the same side of the road!

(16 Apr 2023, 6:13 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]They just need to swap the X9 stand with the 1/308 stand and the 308 and 309 will be next to each other. its that simple, and nobody appears to have thought about it.

It's just stinks to me of officers at all the organisations involved doing everything they need to do for some back-patting apart the one thing that matters.....telling the public all about it.

Apart from some A4 posters on some buses, there has been nothing.zilch. No specially branded roadside timetable displays at bus stops or bus stations, no printed publicity, they've not even bothered to remove the barriers between the 308 and 309 stands at Haymarket. No 'launch'/event. It just looks like the QA is an excuse to cut frequencies with cross ticketing thrown in. They could have least as dressed it up!

Rant over.

Despite all the criticisms of 'marketing fads' (especially pre Featham's GNE - thankfully going back to basics), the Coast Road QA is one where it could be a success if the marketing is nailed on!

I'd say for marketing:
- Common route brand for all services - mainly used for marketing, not necessarily on vehicles but could just be a sticker which blends into each corporate livery

- Dedicated website shared by GNE & Arriva for the 306, 307, 308 and 309 with following information:
* Timetables
* Contact form (forwarded to appropriate operator)
* Route maps
* Ticket options for both operators

- Newspaper and radio advertisements

- Additional joined timetable leaflet for ONLY the 308 & 309 - both offer a combined 10 minute service to Newcastle along common sections and an up to minimum of 15 minutes is still guaranteed ex Newcastle during the day

Then for ticketing:
- Ticketer programmed to accept ALL valid tickets
- TapOnTapOff available on 307 & 309 - integration with Arriva and vice versa

Then for operations:
- Barrier between Stand L & Stand M removed at Haymarket
- 309 & 309 depart from same stand at Blyth Bus Station
- Better coordination between evening 308 & 309 services - would create 10/20 headway rather than flat 15 but main benefit would override this
*307 - xx:10
*308 - xx:20
*309 - xx:40
*306 - xx:50
- Above could also allow extra journeys to be introduced for midweek NUFC fixtures:
* 22:30 & 23:00 - extra journeys to be decided
- 306 withdrawn from Battle Hill Drive - flat 10 minute headway between Newcastle and Billy Mill, could allow 306 & 308 PVR to reduce by a further vehicle to 14x

(16 Apr 2023, 7:34 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Despite all the criticisms of 'marketing fads' (especially pre Featham's GNE - thankfully going back to basics), the Coast Road QA is one where it could be a success if the marketing is nailed on!

I'd say for marketing:
- Common route brand for all services - mainly used for marketing, not necessarily on vehicles but could just be a sticker which blends into each corporate livery

- Dedicated website shared by GNE & Arriva for the 306, 307, 308 and 309 with following information:
* Timetables
* Contact form (forwarded to appropriate operator)
* Route maps
* Ticket options for both operators

- Newspaper and radio advertisements

- Additional joined timetable leaflet for ONLY the 308 & 309 - both offer a combined 10 minute service to Newcastle along common sections and an up to minimum of 15 minutes is still guaranteed ex Newcastle during the day

Then for ticketing:
- Ticketer programmed to accept ALL valid tickets
- TapOnTapOff available on 307 & 309 - integration with Arriva and vice versa

Then for operations:
- Barrier between Stand L & Stand M removed at Haymarket
- 309 & 309 depart from same stand at Blyth Bus Station
- Better coordination between evening 308 & 309 services - would create 10/20 headway rather than flat 15 but main benefit would override this
*307 - xx:10
*308 - xx:20
*309 - xx:40
*306 - xx:50
- Above could also allow extra journeys to be introduced for midweek NUFC fixtures:
* 22:30 & 23:00 - extra journeys to be decided
- 306 withdrawn from Battle Hill Drive - flat 10 minute headway between Newcastle and Billy Mill, could allow 306 & 308 PVR to reduce by a further vehicle to 14x

I don't know how things are done but maybe the bigger reason behind not marketing stuff, is the simple fact Arriva don't want people using GNE and GNE still don't want people using Arriva and they only agreed to it as they were at lockerheads on reducing stuff and both were losing money because of the overbusing.

If someone has a GNE Day Ticket, I can't imagine Arriva getting half the value if it's used on Arriva and vice versa especially considering that ticket is valid on other services aswell and there's no way of telling x used it on y bus.

(16 Apr 2023, 8:57 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]I don't know how things are done but maybe the bigger reason behind not marketing stuff, is the simple fact Arriva don't want people using GNE and GNE still don't want people using Arriva and they only agreed to it as they were at lockerheads on reducing stuff and both were losing money because of the overbusing.

If someone has a GNE Day Ticket, I can't imagine Arriva getting half the value if it's used on Arriva and vice versa especially considering that ticket is valid on other services aswell and there's no way of telling x used it on y bus.

But isn't that the whole point of a 'partnership'?

Already seen reports about certain valid tickets not being accepted. Surely we can't go back to the days of grumpy Northumbria / Coastline drivers rocking up in N113's or Leyland Olympians refusing each others tickets.

Yeah both operators will have to make sacrafices, but the longer term aim is about making things simpler, more accessible and easier for customers, hence creating passenger growth too.

(16 Apr 2023, 9:57 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]But isn't that the whole point of a 'partnership'?

Already seen reports about certain valid tickets not being accepted. Surely we can't go back to the days of grumpy Northumbria / Coastline drivers rocking up in N113's or Leyland Olympians refusing each others tickets.

Yeah both operators will have to make sacrafices, but the longer term aim is about making things simpler, more accessible and easier for customers, hence creating passenger growth too.

Who knows what their real motive was but let's say it's done on a reimbursement method of getting a £1 from each other for using each other's tickets. Both might've just signed up as they knew they both had too many buses along there and if they didn't come together then the other one would become more popular because of frequency 9 buses vs 6 or 8 buses vs 6 depending who chopped down. Everything else who cares.

On paper if they played nicely then it should balance out in theory as everyone should just swap about. If it does using reimbursement if the 308 has 50 people on and the 309 has 10 people on Arriva makes more money at the end of the day so there's little interest in the real world to actually do anything.

They're still competitors at the end of the day.

I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me. Nexus / NCC should be the ones who are promoting it really as they set it up.

They both played 'pretend nice' over this because they know fine well that if Labour win the North East Mayoralty next year (which is highly likely), one of the first things they are likely to explore is full-on franchising which is one of the proposed powers. They need to show willing to cooperate on things like this because it's their only chance (and a slim one at that) at preventing it.

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