North East Buses

Are the 30/31/36 good routes for SC

(12 May 2023, 6:22 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]Are the 30/31/36 good routes for SC

Yeah tbh, another 3 very strong routes. Any route in the West End are pretty much as it has low car usage and no Metro to compete against, which isn't the case for pretty much elsewhere and the same for Walker.

Forgot about them ngl but they should be on the list aswell.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's up there with one of the most urban areas without any form of tram / metro or rail in the whole of Europe nevermind the UK. There used to be map showing high transport usage areas, I'll have to try and find it now.

Edit: https://www.ons.gov.uk/census/maps/choro...-household - that's it. Note all these cut services are mainly in the light green areas across all 3 operators and also note who runs the services in the Dark Blue areas pretty much (and it's not just Newcastle).

With Transport North East emerging with more influence, and if we finally get devolution sorted, I'd argue Nexus should be dissolved, as there is no point having a two tier transport regime.

(12 May 2023, 7:09 pm)solsburian wrote [ -> ]With Transport North East emerging with more influence, and if we finally get devolution sorted, I'd argue Nexus should be dissolved, as there is no point having a two tier transport regime.

Can't disagree with that if I had to be honest, or at most, turned into the operator who runs the Metro. Everything else with Nexus always seems second thought at the best of time anyway imo.

(12 May 2023, 8:15 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Can't disagree with that if I had to be honest, or at most, turned into the operator who runs the Metro. Everything else with Nexus always seems second thought at the best of time anyway imo.

Bring back Nexus of pre 1986 , better known as the PTE. It had teeth and power, until
Thatcher’s 1985 Transport Act destroyed Public Transport.  ( enacted 1986).

(12 May 2023, 8:15 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Can't disagree with that if I had to be honest, or at most, turned into the operator who runs the Metro. Everything else with Nexus always seems second thought at the best of time anyway imo.

This quote from a 2016 Chronicle article about the 20th Anniversary of the Nexus brand, from Andy Bairstow, who was the PTEs head of marketing in the 90s is rather ironic:

Our research showed that residents of Tyne and Wear saw the PTE as a bureaucratic organisation, maybe resting on its laurels after building the Metro, and frankly not very dynamic, though that’s not the way we saw it!

The irony is many people today probably think Nexus is still exactly like that, and probably far worse. IMO the Nexus brand, just like Arriva, Connex and Consignia brands, was more about attempting to promote style over substance. Anyhow I digress.

Nexus secured services are funded by the council purse therefore they should be accountable to local councillors to scrutiny

(12 May 2023, 8:53 pm)Economic505 wrote [ -> ]Bring back Nexus of pre 1986 , better known as the PTE. It had teeth and power, until
Thatcher’s 1985 Transport Act destroyed Public Transport.  ( enacted 1986).

Can't disagree really to be fair.

(12 May 2023, 9:00 pm)solsburian wrote [ -> ]This quote from a 2016 Chronicle article about the 20th Anniversary of the Nexus brand, from Andy Bairstow, who was the PTEs head of marketing in the 90s is rather ironic:


The irony is many people today probably think Nexus is still exactly like that, and probably far worse. IMO the Nexus brand, just like Arriva, Connex and Consignia brands, was more about attempting to promote style over substance. Anyhow I digress.

The sad thing is for it's first 10 year or so it was actually alright, massive extension, few new bus stations etc. but it's just gone to pot. It's ever since they done the North Shields refurb, everything after that has been a shambles, delayed or over budget. I know there's been budget cuts but it doesn't excuse the Tyne Tunnel Pedestrian being delayed by god knows how long (it's still not finished), losing the budget for the ferry pier as they ran out of time, half the stations still not being refurbished (painting things black isn't a refurb) etc.

It's sad, places like Manchester are street years ahead and don't get me started on POP and their web presence which looks like it was built in 1996. It's really hard to think of 1 good thing they've done in the past 5 years and that's not even sarcastic - it really is.

(12 May 2023, 9:54 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Can't disagree really to be fair.


The sad thing is for it's first 10 year or so it was actually alright, massive extension, few new bus stations etc. but it's just gone to pot. It's ever since they done the North Shields refurb, everything after that has been a shambles, delayed or over budget. I know there's been budget cuts but it doesn't excuse the Tyne Tunnel Pedestrian being delayed by god knows how long (it's still not finished), losing the budget for the ferry pier as they ran out of time, half the stations still not being refurbished (painting things black isn't a refurb) etc.

It's sad, places like Manchester are street years ahead and don't get me started on POP and their web presence which looks like it was built in 1996. It's really hard to think of 1 good thing they've done in the past 5 years and that's not even sarcastic - it really is.

I'll give you overseeing the Sunderland extension, though it was done on a shoestring, should have included Washington and trashed the fleet. Pragmatically, as soon as the extension was opened, they should have begun the process of pressing for a new fleet, sourcing parts for the current fleet was starting becoming an issue back in 2002 so they must have been aware that the situation as not going to get any better with no action.

I always feel that Nexus could have had more teeth like the other PTEs down south, i.e. when Merseytravel went gung ho over the Merseyrail Electrics franchise.
Today Nexus seem almost non-existent, I am often tempted to opt out when the Nexus researchers ask about my ticket and where I am travelling on the bus, because I think what is the point. As it stands, what value does Nexus give to the local authorities they represent, compared to perhaps having transport officers employed directly by the councils?

I think South Hylton to Airport line should be reduced to every 15 mins. Well, atleast South Hylton to Park Lane

(12 May 2023, 9:33 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote [ -> ]Nexus secured services are funded by the council purse therefore they should be accountable to local councillors to scrutiny

They are!

(12 May 2023, 10:23 pm)solsburian wrote [ -> ]I'll give you overseeing the Sunderland extension, though it was done on a shoestring, should have included Washington and trashed the fleet. Pragmatically, as soon as the extension was opened, they should have begun the process of pressing for a new fleet, sourcing parts for the current fleet was starting becoming an issue back in 2002 so they must have been aware that the situation as not going to get any better with no action.

I always feel that Nexus could have had more teeth like the other PTEs down south, i.e. when Merseytravel went gung ho over the Merseyrail Electrics franchise.
Today Nexus seem almost non-existent, I am often tempted to opt out when the Nexus researchers ask about my ticket and where I am travelling on the bus, because I think what is the point. As it stands, what value does Nexus give to the local authorities they represent , compared to perhaps having transport officers employed directly by the councils?

Too busy having budgets cut and bailing out private bus operators. 
Which is a shame and to be honest, isn't what they're there for.

Wow, the grief nexus get on here amazes me. Like andros say bailing out private bus companies . Running the metro with trains probably older then most of the pesters on here ( yes you could argue they should have asked more new rolling stock when the extension to Sunderland was being sorted but how do we know what was going on behind the scenes?? Mybe was one or the other?). The also so out bus infrastructure - have you seen the bus stops in NEXUS land compared to say Northumberland Durham? Must be at least 99% OF STOPS HAVE A UP TO DATE TIMETABLE and most have shelters. I remember waiting in the rain for buses in the 80;s as hardly any shelters. and with the private companies chopping and changing timetables it MUST BE A HELL OF A JOB TO CHANGE THEM although im sure those on here could change every stop in nexus land in less than a day including a hour for there dinner!!! Half the stops in Durham and Northumberland your lucky you can tell its an actual stop! Never mind havin a shelter or a timetable to give you some idea what the crack is! And someone mention Liverpool!! you want to try getting a bus to /from goodison park!!! no timetable att he bus stop on the main drag outside the ground. Good job there is a spoons there to keep me entertained!

Then there are the running of buses..... if they run the entire service then fine but running a service on an evening and Sundays but letter the commercial operator take the cream of 7 till 6pm pm well that's the biggest P**S take since VAR turned over the penalty to Newcastle on Sunday.

In my view NEXUS do a reasonable ( not good or Great) in sh*t circumstances....... they get far to much grief for what they dopoorly and no compliments about what they do well

Well local councilliors have stated in an email that they have no say whatsoever over nexus secured services

(12 May 2023, 10:23 pm)solsburian wrote [ -> ]I'll give you overseeing the Sunderland extension, though it was done on a shoestring, should have included Washington and trashed the fleet. Pragmatically, as soon as the extension was opened, they should have begun the process of pressing for a new fleet, sourcing parts for the current fleet was starting becoming an issue back in 2002 so they must have been aware that the situation as not going to get any better with no action.

I always feel that Nexus could have had more teeth like the other PTEs down south, i.e. when Merseytravel went gung ho over the Merseyrail Electrics franchise.
Today Nexus seem almost non-existent, I am often tempted to opt out when the Nexus researchers ask about my ticket and where I am travelling on the bus, because I think what is the point. As it stands, what value does Nexus give to the local authorities they represent, compared to perhaps having transport officers employed directly by the councils?

Aye totally agreed tbh, it's a shame and I can't disagree about budgets etc but there's way too many people up there who are they by being known by certain people rather than merit.

(13 May 2023, 7:13 am)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]Wow, the grief nexus get on here amazes me.  Like andros say bailing out private bus companies . Running the metro with trains probably older then most of the pesters on here ( yes you could argue they should have asked more new rolling stock when the extension to Sunderland was being sorted but how do we know what was going on behind the scenes?? Mybe was one or the  other?).  The also so out bus infrastructure  - have you seen the bus stops in NEXUS land compared to say Northumberland Durham?  Must be at least 99% OF STOPS HAVE A UP TO DATE TIMETABLE and most have shelters.  I remember waiting in the rain for buses in the 80;s as hardly any shelters. and with the private companies chopping and changing timetables it MUST BE A HELL OF A JOB TO CHANGE THEM although im sure those on here could change every stop in nexus land in less than a day including a hour for there dinner!!!  Half the stops in Durham and Northumberland your lucky you can tell its an actual stop! Never mind havin a shelter or a timetable to give you some idea what the crack is! And someone mention Liverpool!! you want to try getting a bus to /from goodison park!!! no timetable att he bus stop on the main drag outside the ground.  Good job there is a spoons there to keep me entertained!

Then there are the running of buses..... if they run the entire service then fine but running a service on an evening and Sundays but letter the commercial operator take the cream of 7 till 6pm pm well that's the biggest P**S take since VAR turned over the penalty to Newcastle on Sunday.

In my view NEXUS do  a reasonable ( not good or Great) in sh*t circumstances....... they get far to much grief for what they dopoorly and no compliments about what they do well

NEXUS is a shambles, there's much more to it than a few bus timetables - a large chunk of bus shelters are maintained by Clear Channel and not Nexus and is a council issue - nothing to do with Nexus hence why there's loads in Sunderland with gardens on top lately and Gateshead generally doesn't have many.

But if you want a list of things they 100% deserve criticism for then here we go and only recent things:

• Serious bullying allegations at the top towards anyone who isn't in their little cult hence the massive staff turnover and low morale
  
• Haymarket Metro station closed due to 2/3 escalators broken
  
• Glass panels off the roof at Whitley Bay due to critical safety checks being skipped
  
• Under investigation by the RAIB/ORR for a fatal incident at one of the underground stations and being unnoticed for hours - it will come out eventually but they can't say much yet but it's serious.
  
• Ignoring the issues with the fleet problems and pretending nothing is wrong. The Metro needs to be dropped to every 15 minutes ASAP otherwise there's going to be severe consequences with severe fleet issues - it's already bad anyway.
  
• Linked to the above lying to the public about removing the peaks because of reduced patronage which was just outright wrong.
  
• The Tyne Passenger Tunnel, Rome was built quicker.
  
• Correspondence when anything going wrong being nothing less than abysmal and gives Arriva a run in for the money.
  
• North Shields Ferry terminal broken, getting the funding to replace it then run out of time to actually use the money.
  
• and a personal one, the trains are absolutely disgusting lately and look like they haven't been cleaned for months. You can physically see the dirt on some seats.
  

It's all on RailUK mostly as there's two posters who have inside connections, both trusted, who keep leaking stuff. There's some pretty abysmal stuff there and as they said if this wasn't a public service and a heritage railway they'd have a prohibition order by now. If any of this was the 3 big bus operators then there'd be absolute hell on here and rightly so.

(13 May 2023, 10:49 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote [ -> ]Well local councilliors have stated in an email that they have no say whatsoever over nexus secured services

Can't find the link annoyingly but one councillor seemingly thought the 520 was a GNE-run route that GNE proposed to withdraw but looked kindly on the residents of the estate it serves.

All GNE did was undercut GCT (assuming GCT bidded, but tbh it's not much of a stretch to assume they did).

(13 May 2023, 10:51 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Aye totally agreed tbh, it's a shame and I can't disagree about budgets etc but there's way too many people up there who are they by being known by certain people rather than merit.


NEXUS is a shambles, there's much more to it than a few bus timetables - a large chunk of bus shelters are maintained by Clear Channel and not Nexus and is a council issue - nothing to do with Nexus hence why there's loads in Sunderland with gardens on top lately and Gateshead generally doesn't have many.

But if you want a list of things they 100% deserve criticism for then here we go and only recent things:

• Serious bullying allegations at the top towards anyone who isn't in their little cult hence the massive staff turnover and low morale
  
• Haymarket Metro station closed due to 2/3 escalators broken
  
• Glass panels off the roof at Whitley Bay due to critical safety checks being skipped
  
• Under investigation by the RAIB/ORR for a fatal incident at one of the underground stations and being unnoticed for hours - it will come out eventually but they can't say much yet but it's serious.
  
• Ignoring the issues with the fleet problems and pretending nothing is wrong. The Metro needs to be dropped to every 15 minutes ASAP otherwise there's going to be severe consequences with severe fleet issues - it's already bad anyway.
  
• Linked to the above lying to the public about removing the peaks because of reduced patronage which was just outright wrong.
  
• The Tyne Passenger Tunnel, Rome was built quicker.
  
• Correspondence when anything going wrong being nothing less than abysmal and gives Arriva a run in for the money.
  
• North Shields Ferry terminal broken, getting the funding to replace it then run out of time to actually use the money.
  
• and a personal one, the trains are absolutely disgusting lately and look like they haven't been cleaned for months. You can physically see the dirt on some seats.
  

It's all on RailUK mostly as there's two posters who have inside connections, both trusted, who keep leaking stuff. There's some pretty abysmal stuff there and as they said if this wasn't a public service and a heritage railway they'd have a prohibition order by now. If any of this was the 3 big bus operators then there'd be absolute hell on here and rightly so.

I dont use rail uk so aint heard any of that.  Also until its in the public domain i take those allegations with pinch of salt. I had numerous people on her saying arriva wouldn't invest in new buses yet when i was in the hotspur after a few drinks Im sure i saw a load of band new buses in the Haymarket in service!!


As for the ferry was that nexus fault?  I'm sure i READ that there were so many issues and hoops to jump through to get the funding from a HIGHER POWER was the reason they missed the cut off time.

 the company who are fixing the escalators at Haymarket now waiting for a part? Then it will be completed?  Maybe you want it to be kept open and another KX incident? Also new car took 6 months longer than promised to be dielivered due to a chip shortage.  Should I blame NEXUS for this?  Also when I was in The Big Smoke for the Carabow cup finial TFL closed the circle line so the station next to out hotel was closed from the friday to the monday. No buses, a shite sign and a 8 quid taxi ride from the nearest tube station.  TFL should be scrapped and letter ARRIVA run eveythinng!!!

The last metro i was on was clean as a whistle, Was a few weeks ago but I had no complaints

Can't excuse not doing checks at whitley... if thats true.  Has to be said though with the force of the wind would they not have come loose anyway.

Cant coment on reduced patronage as dont use enough but were'nt my on the metro i was on

You got back 10-15 years and the bosses of the metro need new rolling stock. As i said before if your extending a railway surely you need more trains? mybe someone somewhere need to look at the shields/airport/sunderland extions and ask why trains were not ordered then?

---

oh and just to add the bit about correspondents. I emails nexus after getting an email off someone on here. Got a responce within a week which was very details and havent had the problem since.

The crocodile complained to GNE about an issue and got a generic response and the issue is still there!

I complained to arriva about there timetable. They didn't even respond but the timetable DID CHANGE. i TAKE RESPONSIBILTY FOR THAT!

(13 May 2023, 10:49 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote [ -> ]Well local councilliors have stated in an email that they have no say whatsoever over nexus secured services

Clearly not true - Nexus is run by the 5 Tyne & Wear Councils so local councillors do have a say. Tyne and Wear sub-committee papers show which councillors  are in control of Nexus.
https://northeastca.gov.uk/wp-content/up...Agenda.pdf

(13 May 2023, 11:10 am)F114TML wrote [ -> ]Can't find the link annoyingly but one councillor seemingly thought the 520 was a GNE-run route that GNE proposed to withdraw but looked kindly on the residents of the estate it serves.

All GNE did was undercut GCT (assuming GCT bidded, but tbh it's not much of a stretch to assume they did).

I doubt that loss making GNE can afford to undercut anyone - it’s competitive tendering and GNE normally lose out to GCT (recently services 19 & 71).

(12 May 2023, 2:54 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I blame Tim and/or Tom Dodds.

It's easy peasy to blame either of them.

(13 May 2023, 10:49 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote [ -> ]Well local councilliors have stated in an email that they have no say whatsoever over nexus secured services

If that's the case, why are Nexus so obsessed with keeping a service in Tunstall Bank Estate then? It's an estate 2 minutes walk from a main road with a good bus service, yet they'll cut half a dozen other services in Sunderland. Nothing to do with councillors huh?

(13 May 2023, 5:18 pm)busmanT wrote [ -> ]Clearly not true - Nexus is run by the 5 Tyne & Wear Councils so local councillors do have a say. Tyne and Wear sub-committee papers show which councillors  are in control of Nexus.
https://northeastca.gov.uk/wp-content/up...Agenda.pdf

Yes, sounds like a cop out from a councillor to be honest.

To add to this post for reference - each Council are represented on the JTC, and whilst they may be from a different party, they're a cabinet member in their respective council and therefore contactable by any Councillor.

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(13 May 2023, 6:23 pm)busmanT wrote [ -> ]I doubt that loss making GNE can afford to undercut anyone - it’s competitive tendering and GNE normally lose out to GCT (recently services 19 & 71).

Won't it depend on the actual bid put in and the forecast returns?

(14 May 2023, 1:43 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Won't it depend on the actual bid put in and the forecast returns?

Ive been on this site for a while and im still confused about this bids/tenders/returnS!

How can go north east sell there own tickets ( as they are advertising on FB for the 79) on a NEXUS service? Surely only NExus tickets could be sold and the fares collected go back to NEXUS.  I know dan said a while back that the 317 run BY SCNE kept all the fares which was reflected in how much they " bid" to run it but it seems confusing to me?

If GNE keep all the fares what stopping them from example cutting a service to zero even though it was showing after a profit of say £5 per week?  The when NEXUS put it out to tender bidding 52K a year meaning ( in very simple terms I know) they go from only makeing £5 a week to making £1005 Per week?? Even if they lost it they could then just turn around and say they will rung it commercially so there isnt a risk that I can see?

(14 May 2023, 2:31 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]Ive been on this site for a while and im still confused about this bids/tenders/returnS!

How can go north east sell there own tickets ( as they are advertising on FB for the 79) on a NEXUS service? Surely only NExus tickets could be sold and the fares collected go back to NEXUS.  I know dan said a while back that the 317 run BY SCNE kept all the fares which was reflected in how much they " bid" to run it but it seems confusing to me?

If GNE keep all the fares what stopping them from example cutting a service to zero even though it was showing after a profit of say £5 per week?  The when NEXUS put it out to tender bidding 52K a year meaning ( in very simple terms I know) they go from only makeing £5 a week to making £1005 Per week?? Even if they lost it they could then just turn around and say they will rung it commercially so there isnt a risk that I can see?

The operator decides in their tender submission whether or not they wish to take the revenue risk, and Nexus will determine what they believe offers the best value for money.

Even on contracts where the revenue risk lies with Nexus (as is the case here), the operator is able to sell and accept their own commercial products, subject to them coming to an agreement with Nexus on the financials for reimbursement.

On contracts where the revenue risk lies with the operator, the subsidy from Nexus is then reduced and the revenue taken onboard is effectively a ‘top up’ of the subsidy received from the local authority.


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So long as NEXUS tickets are still available to buy, then I can't see the problem, so long as the operator is no better or worse off for buying and selling their own tickets.

Also it might atleast increase usage on the service

(14 May 2023, 4:30 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]So long as NEXUS tickets are still available to buy, then I can't see the problem, so long as the operator is no better or worse off for buying and selling their own tickets.

Can you buy a NEXUS ticket on a GNE NEXUS secured service?

(14 May 2023, 4:59 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]Can you buy a NEXUS ticket on a GNE NEXUS secured service?

According to this you can on the 643

https://www.nexus.org.uk/bus/fares-selec...s-services

(14 May 2023, 5:46 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]According to this you can on the 643

https://www.nexus.org.uk/bus/fares-selec...s-services

So If i but a NEXUS day ticket on the first 29 of the day I cant get home LOL