North East Buses

I do not know why there are so many dead runs from West Auckland to Metrocentre, really they could run West Auckland through Durham then up the A690, down the A1 then Heworth then Gateshead. Run it as the X21A or smth

(07 Jun 2023, 6:00 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]I do not know why there are so many dead runs from West Auckland to Metrocentre, really they could run West Auckland through Durham then up the A690, down the A1 then Heworth then Gateshead. Run it as the X21A or smth

If only there was a place close by they could have an outstation to run the X21 from...

(07 Jun 2023, 5:58 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Just had a quick play on Google Maps

Riverside to West Auckland: 35 miles
Darlington to Stanhope: 27 miles
Stockton to Easington: 19 miles
Ashington to Alnwick: 23 miles
Hexham to Alston: 23 miles
Belmont to Barnard Castle: 27 miles


We essentially do the Riverside to West Auckland dead run quite regularly (well, Tindale to Costco!) and it's not too bad really, it's just a lot of Motorway. Although, in a bus that's limited to 40mph I imagine it could be a bit torturous!

Wrong Easington :p, it's only 26 mile though.

I'd imagine it being hell on the A1(M) is a bus, be a complete chore, not to mention night closures on the A1 constantly lately which I'd assume they'd be affected by - the early runs at least.

Mind I'm surprised they haven't extended the late runs back through to Newcastle or at least Gateshead, assuming the CLS ends are just from the depot being there - won't add much on really but agreed with the outstation tbh.

(07 Jun 2023, 6:56 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Wrong Easington :p, it's only 26 mile though.

I'd imagine it being hell on the A1(M) is a bus, be a complete chore, not to mention night closures on the A1 constantly lately which I'd assume they'd be affected by - the early runs at least.

Mind I'm surprised they haven't extended the late runs back through to Newcastle or at least Gateshead, assuming the CLS ends are just from the depot being there - won't add much on really but agreed with the outstation tbh.

Well I just selected the first option that came up in Google Maps! 

I do wonder if they're regretting closing the outstation in Crook, seems like it could have come in handy with CLS closing.
Could have run the X21 and shared the 21 with Riverside if it wasn't getting electrified.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...s-27076077

More in the chronicle. This Dan Graham sounds like a knowledgeable bloke

(07 Jun 2023, 3:43 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]But with only 12x EV's on order, Arriva will have to either....

- Curtail the 43 at Cramlington and introduce a 15 minute layover at Haymarket so that interworking can happen with the 44/45 - straight issue with stand availability waiting for 7-8 minutes before being allowed to pull in.

- Drop the 43 & 44/45 to every 20 minutes each as per current Saturday timetable to allow interworking - why would they do that if frequency has already been re-increased to every 15 minutes.

Remote reliefs to Dinnington or Regent Centre will prove costly overtime.

Other option with a Qualifying Agreement set up covering all of the 43/44/45 (except the Cramlington to Morpeth stretch).....
- Arriva keep the 43
- GNE take on the 44/45 from Riverside

There's 14 vehicles on order for the 43/44/45/47. As far as I'm aware, part of the terms of the funding is they have to keep at least the same frequency as they have now for a set number of years (I believe it's 5 years), so if that's right they won't have the option of returning to the Saturday timetable during the week. 

The services are busy though so I can't see any reason why Arriva would want to hand them over to a competitor.

(08 Jun 2023, 7:46 am)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...s-27076077

More in the chronicle. This Dan Graham sounds like a knowledgeable bloke

Hate the way NEXUS are STILL moaning, even though Go North East are replacing the services, fair enough, its on a reduced frequency, and no evening/Sunday service but least they're replacing them in some way.

(08 Jun 2023, 7:46 am)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...s-27076077

More in the chronicle.  This Dan Graham sounds like a knowledgeable bloke

They used to have a fella called Tom Dodds do that sort of stuff. 
Occasionally his brother, Tim rocked up. 

I'm just wondering if we will ever see Don Graham release a statement.

---

(08 Jun 2023, 9:16 am)Michael wrote [ -> ]Hate the way NEXUS are STILL moaning, even though Go North East are replacing the services, fair enough, its on a reduced frequency, and no evening/Sunday service but least they're replacing them in some way.

I didn't get that far. The adverts kept getting in the way. 
To be fair, Nexus are probably as pissed off as the punters are at the total abject failure of a service being offered across the area and having to bail the operators out every few weeks.

From what we hear, these services aren't loss-makers, but are being axed for operational reasons. That shouldn't be up to Nexus to sort or even get involved in. But needs must and ultimately, it distracts from what they're meant to be doing.

(08 Jun 2023, 9:16 am)Michael wrote [ -> ]Hate the way NEXUS are STILL moaning, even though Go North East are replacing the services, fair enough, its on a reduced frequency, and no evening/Sunday service but least they're replacing them in some way.

I didn't get that impression from reading the article mind ( had same issue as above with adds and that). Nexus probably get it in the ear from punters who dont want GCT picking up evening and Sundays and GNE all other times.

(08 Jun 2023, 9:16 am)Michael wrote [ -> ]Hate the way NEXUS are STILL moaning, even though Go North East are replacing the services, fair enough, its on a reduced frequency, and no evening/Sunday service but least they're replacing them in some way.

Come on Michael, you've been around for long enough to understand how political lobbying works in the North East when it comes to transport 

Councillors complain about buses, Nexus hot potato it straight away to the nearest bus operator!

The reduced frequency is poor, especially with no evening/Sunday service, so I do agree with that sentiment, but I'm unsure how we'll ever move forward as a region when everyone looks to blame each other.

(08 Jun 2023, 9:16 am)Michael wrote [ -> ]Hate the way NEXUS are STILL moaning, even though Go North East are replacing the services, fair enough, its on a reduced frequency, and no evening/Sunday service but least they're replacing them in some way.

In fairness it's the local North Tyneside councillors moaning there rather than Nexus. There's never been an evening service on all 3 for years regardless but an hourly bus service is a waste of space for most people on main corridors.

(08 Jun 2023, 10:25 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]They used to have a fella called Tom Dodds do that sort of stuff. 
Occasionally his brother, Tim rocked up. 

I'm just wondering if we will ever see Don Graham release a statement.

Or even their seedy, womanising brother: the black sheep of the Graham clan, 'Dirty' Den Graham

(07 Jun 2023, 5:58 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Just had a quick play on Google Maps

Riverside to West Auckland: 35 miles
Darlington to Stanhope: 27 miles
Stockton to Easington: 19 miles
Ashington to Alnwick: 23 miles
Hexham to Alston: 23 miles
Belmont to Barnard Castle: 27 miles


We essentially do the Riverside to West Auckland dead run quite regularly (well, Tindale to Costco!) and it's not too bad really, it's just a lot of Motorway. Although, in a bus that's limited to 40mph I imagine it could be a bit torturous!

Arriva Ashington used to have a bus that ran dead from Ashington to Belford on a weekday (the odd X18 journey that went to Alnwick High Sch). That was a 90 minute dead journey and a fair few miles before it started even taking any money.

The reason Ashington ran it (rather than Alnwick) was it was actually an X14 car, as it went dead to Longframlington for just after 9am after dropping off at the High Sch in Alnwick at about 08:30.

(08 Jun 2023, 5:26 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]Or even their seedy, womanising brother: the black sheep of the Graham clan, 'Dirty' Den Graham

Nah, heard that Den is too busy serving divorce papers to his sweet.

(08 Jun 2023, 11:41 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]In fairness it's the local North Tyneside councillors moaning there rather than Nexus. There's never been an evening service on all 3 for years regardless but an hourly bus service is a waste of space for most people on main corridors.

Are we talking about 51 - 55 here, I thought they all had an evening service? As for an hourly service, the way things are in the north east at the moment, we will be lucky to have an hourly service on most services  in the future. I would love a turn up and go service but work around the current hourly we have service as best I can, if not possible I will do the 10 - 15 minute walk for a different bus or 20 for a Metro. When I caught the bus to work I happily used an hourly service as there was no other options, but it worked and there was no way there would be more than hourly service at the time.

(08 Jun 2023, 6:37 pm)RMF1254 wrote [ -> ]Are we talking about 51 - 55 here, I thought they all had an evening service? As for an hourly service, the way things are in the north east at the moment, we will be lucky to have an hourly service on most services  in the future. I would love a turn up and go service but work around the current hourly we have service as best I can, if not possible I will do the 10 - 15 minute walk for a different bus or 20 for a Metro. When I caught the bus to work I happily used an hourly service as there was no other options, but it worked and there was no way there would be more than hourly service at the time.

They do have an evening service - the 51, 52, 53 and 54 are supported by Nexus, and the 55 is commercial (which is probably why the Sunday evening service was withdrawn) 

Maybe Arriva/Stagecoach (in the case of the 54) will keep the evening contract until March?

(08 Jun 2023, 6:33 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Nah, heard that Den is too busy serving divorce papers to his sweet.

Last I heard, he was buried under the pub by his wife, summit about being clobbered over the head with a heavy dog

I don't think an hourly service is a waste and compared to the major frequency reductions & cancellations the 52/53/54 have suffered, it's not a bad deal to be honest.

- North Shields to Shiremoor Earsdon Road with a half hourly service (or hourly via Cobalt if 1x bus ph via NT Hospital) plus frequent links to Killingworth.

- Southgate to Burradon then Dudley Lane to Cramlington with a half hourly service.

We'll have to see what the final details entail, but it looks a simple and easy to use group of services. Also bearing in mind, there might be scope for further improvements come March with the Nexus tenders plus the ability to amalgamate other similar services too such as the 19 & 335.

Operationally for GNE, a simple PVR of 9x and a 4.5hr driving stint. Wonder if GNE to pool resources will......

- Move reliefs for 307 alongside the 353 & 354 to North Shields interchange.

- Do 353/354 reliefs in New York but share with 309 reliefs (two drivers using 1x van)

(08 Jun 2023, 6:37 pm)RMF1254 wrote [ -> ]Are we talking about 51 - 55 here, I thought they all had an evening service? As for an hourly service, the way things are in the north east at the moment, we will be lucky to have an hourly service on most services  in the future. I would love a turn up and go service but work around the current hourly we have service as best I can, if not possible I will do the 10 - 15 minute walk for a different bus or 20 for a Metro. When I caught the bus to work I happily used an hourly service as there was no other options, but it worked and there was no way there would be more than hourly service at the time.

Aye, they've all been subsidised for years - must admit I wasn't very clear. I know the 53 has been since the 343/344 days and the 52 was only extended to Cramlington because of GNE ditching the Wallsend to Cramlington bus route ironically.

I think hourly is just too infrequent to be usable unless someone really has no other choice. They ideally need to be at least every 30 minutes. If someone starts work at 9.30 and the bus gets there at 9.32, it's as useless as not existing as the vast majority of people won't be waiting around for 58 minutes. Multiply that by multiple customers and you've got a pretty unsustainable bus.

It'll be interesting to see if Arriva make some changes to serve other areas aswekk especially with the X7, X8 and 57A which could easily be meddled with if they wanted ie. the 57A or X8 going via Fern Drive which will add a minute max or swapping the X7 or X8 to do the old 363 route via Fern Drive to pick out two which won't add much time or the X7/X8 not being express from South Gosforth to Newcastle as an 55 replacement.

(08 Jun 2023, 7:17 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Aye, they've all been subsidised for years - must admit I wasn't very clear. I know the 53 has been since the 343/344 days and the 52 was only extended to Cramlington because of GNE ditching the Wallsend to Cramlington bus route ironically.

I think hourly is just too infrequent to be usable unless someone really has no other choice. They ideally need to be at least every 30 minutes. If someone starts work at 9.30 and the bus gets there at 9.32, it's as useless as not existing as the vast majority of people won't be waiting around for 58 minutes. Multiply that by multiple customers and you've got a pretty unsustainable bus.

It'll be interesting to see if Arriva make some changes to serve other areas aswekk especially with the X7, X8 and 57A which could easily be meddled with if they wanted ie. the 57A or X8 going via Fern Drive which will add a minute max or swapping the X7 or X8 to do the old 363 route via Fern Drive to pick out two which won't add much time or the X7/X8 not being express from South Gosforth to Newcastle as an 55 replacement.

I wish I had had a job where the bus arrived at the exact time I started work! Many people work around transport times, always have done. I never left work at the time I finished, always at the time to catch my bus, worked for me.

(08 Jun 2023, 7:57 pm)RMF1254 wrote [ -> ]I wish I had had a job where the bus arrived at the exact time I started work! Many people work around transport times, always have done. I never left work at the time I finished, always at the time to catch my bus, worked for me.

We have people scheduled in at all funny times to work around bus schedules.

If your employer refuses to work around the bus times for the sake of a few minutes, then they're a shite employer.

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

(08 Jun 2023, 7:57 pm)RMF1254 wrote [ -> ]I wish I had had a job where the bus arrived at the exact time I started work! Many people work around transport times, always have done. I never left work at the time I finished, always at the time to catch my bus, worked for me.

It's not always possible though say a teacher and the buses get there at 8.40 or 7.40. They've got no choice but to get the 7.40 bus. Loads of roles are the same ie. retail etc.

30 minute bud services will give an acceptable time hourly not so much. 

Unless it's up in the sticks or very rural areas ie. Rothbury, it should be a minimum every 30 minute service, excluding small variants or just not bother at all.

(08 Jun 2023, 7:57 pm)RMF1254 wrote [ -> ]I wish I had had a job where the bus arrived at the exact time I started work! Many people work around transport times, always have done. I never left work at the time I finished, always at the time to catch my bus, worked for me.

Maybe that's part of the problem and could play a part in why we've seen a decline in usage over the years?

What works for one, doesn't always work for the other and if something isn't convenient, then they will look for an alternative. 
The alternative in this case, being a car or something other than the hourly bus - which can be late or might not rock up at all.

(08 Jun 2023, 8:35 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Maybe that's part of the problem and could play a part in why we've seen a decline in usage over the years?

What works for one, doesn't always work for the other and if something isn't convenient, then they will look for an alternative. 
The alternative in this case, being a car or something other than the hourly bus - which can be late or might not rock up at all.

I tend to agree. Perhaps in a time when there were no real alternatives available to you, it was far easier for transport operators to expect you to work around their scheduling, rather than providing a schedule that was customer-centric. Nowadays, not only do you have cars so easily available to people, but most office-based employers will accept an application for homeworking if you can explain that your daily commute is awful. 

It's nearly 9 month since Go North East 'temporarily' suspended the X20. Using that provided a perfect route for me to get from Washington to Durham, using that and the 4. Not only did they suspend that, they made the 50 a game of snakes and ladders to get out of Washington. I ended up reverting to working from home permanently as a result of that, and it's single figures that I've been into an office since then. Saves me £100+ a month and loses an operator a customer.

(08 Jun 2023, 7:17 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Aye, they've all been subsidised for years - must admit I wasn't very clear. I know the 53 has been since the 343/344 days and the 52 was only extended to Cramlington because of GNE ditching the Wallsend to Cramlington bus route ironically.

I think hourly is just too infrequent to be usable unless someone really has no other choice. They ideally need to be at least every 30 minutes. If someone starts work at 9.30 and the bus gets there at 9.32, it's as useless as not existing as the vast majority of people won't be waiting around for 58 minutes. Multiply that by multiple customers and you've got a pretty unsustainable bus.

It'll be interesting to see if Arriva make some changes to serve other areas aswekk especially with the X7, X8 and 57A which could easily be meddled with if they wanted ie. the 57A or X8 going via Fern Drive which will add a minute max or swapping the X7 or X8 to do the old 363 route via Fern Drive to pick out two which won't add much time or the X7/X8 not being express from South Gosforth to Newcastle as an 55 replacement.

The current 52 isnt the original 52, the original 52 went to Ashington, but was canned, the current 52 came about in 2013, the original 53 also went to Blyth, and the 53A was evenings and Sundays only, but in 2012 it was changed to 53 being Cramlington- Whitley Bay, and the 53A Cramlington- North Shields (current 53), the 53A was withdrawn in 2013, but back to the point of the 52, the 52 went to Cramlington even before GNE's 42 was withdrawn, the 42 was only withdrawn last year, they did however add some additional journeys onto the 52 when the 42 was withdrawn if thats what you mean

(08 Jun 2023, 9:37 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]The current 52 isnt the original 52, the original 52 went to Ashington, but was canned, the current 52 came about in 2013, the original 53 also went to Blyth, and the 53A was evenings and Sundays only, but in 2012 it was changed to 53 being Cramlington- Whitley Bay, and the 53A Cramlington- North Shields (current 53), the 53A was withdrawn in 2013, but back to the point of the 52, the 52 went to Cramlington even before GNE's 42 was withdrawn, the 42 was only withdrawn last year, they did however add some additional journeys onto the 52 when the 42 was withdrawn if thats what you mean

Aye the old number, which I always forget, going to say 342 but probably wrong again. Aye was talking about the evening service it never used to exist north of Killingworth until relitively recently but Nexus subsidised some extra runs to cover what were the 42 runs.

I'd say it was a bad idea swapping the routes around and bolting the 57/57A onto the Ashington runs but it would be joining the rest of them in the disposal bin so can't complain too much in hindsight

(08 Jun 2023, 8:59 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I tend to agree. Perhaps in a time when there were no real alternatives available to you, it was far easier for transport operators to expect you to work around their scheduling, rather than providing a schedule that was customer-centric . Nowadays, not only do you have cars so easily available to people, but most office-based employers will accept an application for homeworking if you can explain that your daily commute is awful. 

It's nearly 9 month since Go North East 'temporarily' suspended the X20. Using that provided a perfect route for me to get from Washington to Durham, using that and the 4. Not only did they suspend that, they made the 50 a game of snakes and ladders to get out of Washington. I ended up reverting to working from home permanently as a result of that, and it's single figures that I've been into an office since then. Saves me £100+ a month and loses an operator a customer.

I hate that particular word (even though I love the meaning behind it).

The idea we don't have operators who look to identify what passengers want, need or expect is beyond me. 
They're struggling for passengers, are falling further and further in to the financial black hole and still seem to insist that they know best, deciding where and when buses will run.
Usually inconveniencing the few passengers that are keeping the operators afloat.

The level of arrogance and ineptitude shown by these operators is frightening.
Particularly in the current situation.

(09 Jun 2023, 1:56 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I hate that particular word (even though I love the meaning behind it).

The idea we don't have operators who look to identify what passengers want, need or expect is beyond me. 
They're struggling for passengers, are falling further and further in to the financial black hole and still seem to insist that they know best, deciding where and when buses will run.
Usually inconveniencing the few passengers that are keeping the operators afloat.

The level of arrogance and ineptitude shown by these operators is frightening.
Particularly in the current situation.

I couldn't agree more with everything you have stated above...It's worrying that this is peoples livelihoods being messed around with for 'operational issues or staffing shortages'

Going slightly off topic from these announced changes I've noticed the X30/31 seems to be very busy whenever I use it these days, when one fails to turn up for the fabled operational reasons or late running the next is totally rammed. Being the optimist I'm hoping the latest reduction to half hourly (1 for for each x30/x31) will be reviewed shortly and we can get back to a least 3 an hour.

(12 Jun 2023, 12:09 pm)garym67 wrote [ -> ]Going slightly off topic from these announced changes I've noticed the X30/31 seems to be very busy whenever I use it these days, when one fails to turn up for the fabled operational reasons or late running the next is totally rammed. Being the optimist I'm hoping the latest reduction to half hourly (1 for for each x30/x31) will be reviewed shortly and we can get back to a least 3 an hour.

To be honest, the X30/X31 would be better back to every 15 minutes but using single deckers instead as before Nov 2019 (maybe ex Green Arrow E200MMC's).

Then all E400MMC to Riverside for for X10 & X21 with scope for the X9 to be re-instated (total PVR of 15/16 if X9 returned depending on X21 layover). X45/X71/X72/47 operated using StreetDeck & B5TLs.