Thought i'd post a thread, to save the GNE thread about the strike from getting clogged up with stuff, and as the following question covers potentially a range of answers i've posted it here
So the question is
Strikes?, Closures?, What would you do and why?, wether it be close depots, resolve the strikes, take over routes, i'd like to hear your answers
(28 Oct 2023, 11:48 am)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Thought i'd post a thread, to save the GNE thread about the strike from getting clogged up with stuff, and as the following question covers potentially a range of answers i've posted it here
So the question is
Strikes?, Closures?, What would you do and why?, wether it be close depots, resolve the strikes, take over routes, i'd like to hear your answers
I would strip GNE of any Nexus, NCC or DCC contracted services, maybe replace some commerical services with TaxiBuses or rideshare services where possible.
Since we’re going to get a centre left or left wing Metro Mayor with I’d enforce a colleague contract with minimum obligations on both sides
A colleague forum which is consulted and engaged on key decisions (keyword consulted and engaged not running the show but more than tokenism)
Agreed working practices and hours, a set living wage
Basic as that. Value your colleagues and they will return the favour. Basically do the opposite of Bensham (of which every single manager would be sacked (based on independent review) or if potential is seen, retrained up to a minimum people management standard with a CIPD qualification in all areas (from engineering to the top)
Threaten GNE to remove all their contracts, they might rush back to the table as when they do meet a deal theyll have lost shit tonnes of work
(28 Oct 2023, 7:31 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]Since we’re going to get a centre left or left wing Metro Mayor with I’d enforce a colleague contract with minimum obligations on both sides
A colleague forum which is consulted and engaged on key decisions (keyword consulted and engaged not running the show but more than tokenism)
Agreed working practices and hours, a set living wage
Basic as that. Value your colleagues and they will return the favour. Basically do the opposite of Bensham (of which every single manager would be sacked (based on independent review) or if potential is seen, retrained up to a minimum people management standard with a CIPD qualification in all areas (from engineering to the top)
CIPD means naff all in the grand scheme of things.
It's a couple of letters that doesn't change a culture or the personality of the organisation.
Imo it carries as much weight as a bus industry back patting award.
It might look good. But it means nothing.
The only thing that could fix bus operations in the NE (and beyond) is a huge sweeping brush. The biggest sweeping brush you've ever seen and once the floor is clean, then they can start from the bottom up.
People often talk about football clubs being rotten to the core. Managers come and go, yet the same issues persist.
(28 Oct 2023, 11:24 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]Consett had the best network going after the Sept 2021 changes.
The only thing I would change is the 47 one went to Castleside the other went to Shotley Bridge, and the X5 went to Castleside and X15 went to Shotley Bridge I think that would have been better.
Aswell I was out early, and I was thinking with ISquared taking over Arriva, when Arriva goes in for pay negotations it could either go one way DB not wanting to talk at all, or they just give them whatever they want as theyll only be in control for maybe 6 months, however if they do the former and the drivers go out on a walk out, it might give GNE or SCNE (presumably GNE solve their dispute) to maybe purchase a depot from Arriva as they dont care theyve just sold the company, they dont want to pay their workers anymore, sell Belmont or Blyth/Ashington to GNE/SCNE make some money.
Also it is intresting that the amount of people learning to drive is reducing year upon year and that is going to have to lead to more use in public transport, that change hast to start now in crafting a network which is good, I would say pre-Sept 2021 changes GNE network was one of the best its ever been atleast in the past 10 years, they really tried, but I no one knew about it really. No one looks oooo lets see whats happening on Go North East, they need to market, I remember DAn sayign there was a big marketing push when Driver Shortage was over in the East Gateshead area, look how taht is now its only the EG Rider left.
And I think thats something else Branding, its unique to GNE yes, its perhaps not needed but it gives a route an identity, I cannot believe what happened to the Loops, there was no need to brand then East Gateshead Loop considering they spend half their time in west gateshead, same with the Orbits. Branding is something that should stay in my opinion but for it to work you need a solid network, just look at the failures with S&D.
For me most services should be branded...I know this is unpopular but I think the only services which should be unbranded is
25 (PVR 2)
34 (maybe, it does get busy)
41/41A (too many changes in NT)
99 (contracted runs 4 each day each way)
most few daily contracted services aswell
Why not brand the 701/702/703 - Chester-Le-Street Town Services.
Go back to old branding Simplicity, Silver Arrows, CityLink (58/57), no need for EG. Just the nromal Loop. for heaven sakes the Drifters flagship route has had no TLC for 10 years. Also the NTR what a joke "look out for a purple bus" theres more red and blue ones than purple, when theyre runnig that is, infact theyre the only service running and you see more coasters on them I mean FFS
But for branding to mean something you have focus on it, it means not allocating routes everywhere, it means sticking to spares being the 2019 lvieries buses only, no Prince Bishops popping up on the 700, or 60's spending more time in South tyneside. And the buses have to reliabile i mean just look at the state of the TVT, and there are going to be no new buses for years just old awful ex-london spec with rock hard seats, no USBs or anything, nothing to make people feel a reason to get the bus, "oh i can get a charge" "oh we can get a table" and I know that was one of my reasons to get the bus, but especially with the unreability of the fleet and the ex-london buses which are awful inside and wouldnt want to go on them.
Said I'd reply here, don't disagree with Consett.
Honestly what GoNorthEast now is someone who is ruthless and doesn't listen to moaning councillors.
They need to just sit down and get the crayons out (not literally, just a joke) and just start again and build a new network and when some pensioner moans because there's not a bus from Stanley to a pub in some obscure estate in Washington don't back down.
The network is just a botch job from a network from the 1970's but everything around it has changed. I'm normally one for mass network changes but the as others say, the network isn't fit for the 21st century and how many times you botch the Washington Locals or botch the routes around Wallsend it's just not enough.
Like picking Washington, the best sort of route imo would be express service than run limited stop from Newcastle to the outskirts of Washington and then start going around every estate, serve every single area starting at the top end, serving Washington in the middle, then meadering through to Penshaw in the South then running non stop to Sunderland via the hospital. Now every single person in Washington has a bus service to the Galleries where they can change to go other towns and a direct link to the two major destinations they want to go to.
The complaints would be through the roof doing it, because I can't go from x to y anymore all of 2 people, but over time it would be popular, it's basically what happened in Cramlington about 15 year ago and tbf it worked. It's arguably the two places in Washington where most people want to be, not Houghton Le Spring, not Chester Le Street, not Stanley. Now you've done that you can make those places have a quicker service as they don't need to meander around every nook and cranny so the workers from the likes of Nissan in Chester Le Street don't get a magical mystery tour.
Branding etc is irrelevant when the buses don't go where you want to go and you might actually make a profit to pay the wages.
(28 Oct 2023, 7:39 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]Threaten GNE to remove all their contracts, they might rush back to the table as when they do meet a deal theyll have lost shit tonnes of work
I suspect that GNE will be happy to have contracts removed, they certainly won't be able to run them profitably if they give a pay rise of 10% plus - Local Authorities only increase contract prices by CPI so all GNE's Nexus, Northumberland and Durham contracts will be less profitable (if not loss making).
With pay rates of at least £14.15 per hour I doubt they'll be winning many contracts in future either.
I foresee GNE with a much smaller fleet, depot footprint and workforce come this time next year.
(29 Oct 2023, 8:24 am)busmanT wrote [ -> ]I suspect that GNE will be happy to have contracts removed, they certainly won't be able to run them profitably if they give a pay rise of 10% plus - Local Authorities only increase contract prices by CPI so all GNE's Nexus, Northumberland and Durham contracts will be less profitable (if not loss making).
With pay rates of at least £14.15 per hour I doubt they'll be winning many contracts in future either.
I foresee GNE with a much smaller fleet, depot footprint and workforce come this time next year.
I though contracts were where GNE made their money??
(28 Oct 2023, 7:31 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]Since we’re going to get a centre left or left wing Metro Mayor with I’d enforce a colleague contract with minimum obligations on both sides
A colleague forum which is consulted and engaged on key decisions (keyword consulted and engaged not running the show but more than tokenism)
Agreed working practices and hours, a set living wage
Basic as that. Value your colleagues and they will return the favour. Basically do the opposite of Bensham (of which every single manager would be sacked (based on independent review) or if potential is seen, retrained up to a minimum people management standard with a CIPD qualification in all areas (from engineering to the top)
Surely the Trade Union acts as a "colleague forum"?
Aren't working practices agreed anyway?
(29 Oct 2023, 8:24 am)busmanT wrote [ -> ]I suspect that GNE will be happy to have contracts removed, they certainly won't be able to run them profitably if they give a pay rise of 10% plus - Local Authorities only increase contract prices by CPI so all GNE's Nexus, Northumberland and Durham contracts will be less profitable (if not loss making).
With pay rates of at least £14.15 per hour I doubt they'll be winning many contracts in future either.
I foresee GNE with a much smaller fleet, depot footprint and workforce come this time next year.
While Stagecoach go in the opposite direction?
Personally i see GNE being royaly screwed after this, running a loss, second hand tatty vehicles, even newer vehicles falling apart, its hardly going to give off the impression "please travel with us", Arriva wont want the 335, 351-355 , or 359 as it was them that got rid of them, which leaves Stagecoach
335 is a funny one so i'll leave this one upto you guys
351 may survive
352 withdrawn replaced with the 37 or 37 withdrawn and 352 kept increased to every 30
353 may survive if increased to every 30
354 will probably go back to the current 54 on Sundays, New York- North Shields withdrawn
355 withdrawn and replaced with the 38 in part 38A introduced full time to replace remainder of it (perhaps)
359 withdrawn
(29 Oct 2023, 1:23 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Personally i see GNE being royaly screwed after this, running a loss, second hand tatty vehicles, even newer vehicles falling apart, its hardly going to give off the impression "please travel with us", Arriva wont want the 335, 351-355 , or 359 as it was them that got rid of them, which leaves Stagecoach
335 is a funny one so i'll leave this one upto you guys
351 may survive
352 withdrawn replaced with the 37 or 37 withdrawn and 352 kept increased to every 30
353 may survive if increased to every 30
354 will probably go back to the current 54 on Sundays, New York- North Shields withdrawn
355 withdrawn and replaced with the 38 in part 38A introduced full time to replace remainder of it (perhaps)
359 withdrawn
The 335, 351 and 359 will survive as they're all funded by Nexus, who by depends on who wins the next tender and if they still don't sort their crap out they might be not bidding at all.
The others who knows, I don't know why but I have a feeling they might ditch Percy Main completely before long. People in Howdon, Tynemouth and Cullercoats will all be getting accustomed to the 22, 306, 317 and Metro now. If they find out they do what they need, why bother changing back considering they're all more or the same frequency anyway. Similar with the 37, 38 and the Metro for the 35x services.
Who knows, if I Squared are feeling ambitious maybe we might see something interworking with the 57/57A at Whitley Bay, it's doable now with the 57A extension to Ashington.
(29 Oct 2023, 8:24 am)busmanT wrote [ -> ]I suspect that GNE will be happy to have contracts removed, they certainly won't be able to run them profitably if they give a pay rise of 10% plus - Local Authorities only increase contract prices by CPI so all GNE's Nexus, Northumberland and Durham contracts will be less profitable (if not loss making).
With pay rates of at least £14.15 per hour I doubt they'll be winning many contracts in future either.
I foresee GNE with a much smaller fleet, depot footprint and workforce come this time next year.
Are Gateshead Central Taxis not paying around £14 per hour, yet they seem to have a lot of contracts.
(29 Oct 2023, 2:26 pm)Thomas12 wrote [ -> ]Are Gateshead Central Taxis not paying around £14 per hour, yet they seem to have a lot of contracts.
I think to compete with GCT for contracts, the wonderful accounting team at Southeastern would have to be seconded to Go North East in order to be in with a chance....allegedly.
Sent from my SM-A526B using Tapatalk
How many nexus contracts are there? How many do GNE Have?
(28 Oct 2023, 8:27 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]CIPD means naff all in the grand scheme of things.
It's a couple of letters that doesn't change a culture or the personality of the organisation.
Imo it carries as much weight as a bus industry back patting award.
It might look good. But it means nothing.
The only thing that could fix bus operations in the NE (and beyond) is a huge sweeping brush. The biggest sweeping brush you've ever seen and once the floor is clean, then they can start from the bottom up.
People often talk about football clubs being rotten to the core. Managers come and go, yet the same issues persist.
I sort of agree. It’s obvious within the management at GNE there’s never been a people centric focused and a shift towards at least a nominal direction of something like CIPD or even Investors in People would help the chains move.
But I agree, Bensham, the acolytes and the Service Delivery Managers (especially those with social media accounts) need to go, there is no hope.
In terms of collective agreement, which has been mentioned and working practices. No a union is not the same. Although similar - a colleague led forum, not directed by a wider national group and focuses on core issues impacting GNE regionally working in collaboration with a responsive and engaged management team (who would be an equally core part of this) is key
It’s blatant that management at GNE see it and have been inexplicably trained as an us v them mentality. They are drinking the kool aid as they say
(29 Oct 2023, 2:26 pm)Thomas12 wrote [ -> ]Are Gateshead Central Taxis not paying around £14 per hour, yet they seem to have a lot of contracts.
Let's be honest if GNE offered £25 an hour. Then Stagecoach and Arriva would be offering £25 not too long after as no way would they sit there while a depot down the road is paid more. It's a non starter discussion point, not to mention they've been using agency drivers for the contract work which are well above £14 an hour.
Be interesting to see Arriva Northumbria is having a play on this as Unite will know what's being bundled around with their talks there. If Arriva go upto £15.00 which is about the inflation increase of their current rate then the Manchester rates are now suddenly much closer to home and all the 'cost of living' and other shite that's been thrown around by the bus operator apologists will be running out of excuses.
I really don't know how they pulled it off but for all the penny pinching with Arriva they got a great deal there without striking at all.
(29 Oct 2023, 2:26 pm)Thomas12 wrote [ -> ]Are Gateshead Central Taxis not paying around £14 per hour, yet they seem to have a lot of contracts.
£12.90 according to thier own Facebook page
(29 Oct 2023, 9:54 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]£12.90 according to thier own Facebook page
Not sure how up to date that is, I thought I read that it’s either £14 an hour or so or about to go up to it.
(29 Oct 2023, 1:23 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Personally i see GNE being royaly screwed after this, running a loss, second hand tatty vehicles, even newer vehicles falling apart, its hardly going to give off the impression "please travel with us", Arriva wont want the 335, 351-355 , or 359 as it was them that got rid of them, which leaves Stagecoach
335 is a funny one so i'll leave this one upto you guys
351 may survive
352 withdrawn replaced with the 37 or 37 withdrawn and 352 kept increased to every 30
353 may survive if increased to every 30
354 will probably go back to the current 54 on Sundays, New York- North Shields withdrawn
355 withdrawn and replaced with the 38 in part 38A introduced full time to replace remainder of it (perhaps)
359 withdrawn
By no means a service suggestion (before anyone jumps to move it) but if GNE were to axe anything....
- PM Closed
- 307/309 & 327 move to Riverside
- 335, 351, 359 down to Nexus although tender can change.
1:
- Withdrawn.
- 97 possibly re-introduced.
- Stagecoach potentially introduce a 22A or 23 doing Throckley > Newcastle then 1 route to Whitley Bay every 20 mins.
352:
- Withdrawn, already covered by 37.
353:
- Withdrawn by GNE, possibly picked up every 30 mins by Stagecoach......or Arriva take it back if capacity freed up at Blyth/Ashington owing to ABTRL and possible PVR reductions as a result.
354:
- Withdrawn.
- Whitley Bay > Killingworth covered by 359.
- X63 effectively other than the Killingworth circle possibly mirrors the old 54/56/356 via Longbenton, South Gosforth and Gosforth.
355:
- Withdrawn.
- Covered by 38 as alternative.
- Matthew Bank possibly covered by Arriva making the X7/X8 serve all stops.
(31 Oct 2023, 9:16 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]By no means a service suggestion (before anyone jumps to move it) but if GNE were to axe anything....
- PM Closed
- 307/309 & 327 move to Riverside
- 335, 351, 359 down to Nexus although tender can change.
1:
- Withdrawn.
- 97 possibly re-introduced.
- Stagecoach potentially introduce a 22A or 23 doing Throckley > Newcastle then 1 route to Whitley Bay every 20 mins.
352:
- Withdrawn, already covered by 37.
353:
- Withdrawn by GNE, possibly picked up every 30 mins by Stagecoach......or Arriva take it back if capacity freed up at Blyth/Ashington owing to ABTRL and possible PVR reductions as a result.
354:
- Withdrawn.
- Whitley Bay > Killingworth covered by 359.
- X63 effectively other than the Killingworth circle possibly mirrors the old 54/56/356 via Longbenton, South Gosforth and Gosforth.
355:
- Withdrawn.
- Covered by 38 as alternative.
- Matthew Bank possibly covered by Arriva making the X7/X8 serve all stops.
Its fine, thats why i made this thread, so any suggestion is allowed in my book
Just thinking about this.....but Percy Main deppt I'd say is at big risk of closing for exactly the following reasons:
1.) Most routes other than the 307 & 309 (moved to Riverside) can easily be covered in parts or wholly by alternative services (352, 354, 355 vs 37, 38, 359 X7, X8, X63) or alternative operators (1, 41/41A, 335 (NEXUS), 351(NEXUS), 353, 359(NEXUS)).
2.) If a joint ZEBRA bid is submitted with the authorities, Arriva and GNE for the Coast Road corridor, that would effectively confirm Percy Main closing as I doubt the needed infrastructure could easily be implemented at Percy Main without a whole new depot. And even if GAG got offers if the new nearby housing development wanted to expand further down, I doubt GNE would re-invest in a new depot and instead, would pocket the money to pay down the COVID losses.
(02 Nov 2023, 1:39 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Just thinking about this.....but Percy Main deppt I'd say is at big risk of closing for exactly the following reasons:
1.) Most routes other than the 307 & 309 (moved to Riverside) can easily be covered in parts or wholly by alternative services (352, 354, 355 vs 37, 38, 359 X7, X8, X63) or alternative operators (1, 41/41A, 335 (NEXUS), 351(NEXUS), 353, 359(NEXUS)).
2.) If a joint ZEBRA bid is submitted with the authorities, Arriva and GNE for the Coast Road corridor, that would effectively confirm Percy Main closing as I doubt the needed infrastructure could easily be implemented at Percy Main without a whole new depot. And even if GAG got offers if the new nearby housing development wanted to expand further down, I doubt GNE would re-invest in a new depot and instead, would pocket the money to pay down the COVID losses.
The X7, X8 and X63 certainly cannot cover the 354 at all. None of them 3 are going via Gosforth. Arriva have already attempted this and it was one of the most unpopular changes ever and quickly reversed as it was a complete farce.
They're express services, focused on the outer areas, not going around the house routes. When there's a new railway line opening, the last thing they need to do is make them slower than they already are.
There's just simply no demand for the 354 between Newcastle and Four Lane Ends and it can be done by changing onto a Metro and changing onto another bus anyway. The corridor has been slowing dying ever since Northumberland Park Metro station opened pretty much as it's just much quicker and easier via Metro.
(02 Nov 2023, 2:29 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]The X7, X8 and X63 certainly cannot cover the 354 at all. None of them 3 are going via Gosforth. Arriva have already attempted this and it was one of the most unpopular changes ever and quickly reversed as it was a complete farce.
They're express services, focused on the outer areas, not going around the house routes. When there's a new railway line opening, the last thing they need to do is make them slower than they already are.
There's just simply no demand for the 354 between Newcastle and Four Lane Ends and it can be done by changing onto a Metro and changing onto another bus anyway. The corridor has been slowing dying ever since Northumberland Park Metro station opened pretty much as it's just much quicker and easier via Metro.
X7/X8 - only possible change would be to serve all stops on Matthew Bank to make up for the lack of 355.
As for the X63, does it get that busy outside of the peaks to justify a full fast service? Would still be quicker than the 62/63 even if it did the Killingworth loop then as per the 54/56/356 to Newcastle Haymarket. Could even run an hourly evening & Sunday service too.