North East Buses

(07 Nov 2023, 11:22 am)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]Think we need to give the new owners an opportunity before we cast them into the abyss.

Hopefully they'll make a few better local decisions than GNE's new owners have so far

Bearing in mind capacity at Ashington & Blyth will be available to take on extra work once the ABTRL goes live and PVR reductions happen as a result

(07 Nov 2023, 11:28 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Bearing in mind capacity at Ashington & Blyth will be available to take on extra work once the ABTRL goes live and PVR reductions happen as a result

You keep posting about this like it's a certainty, realistically how much would PVR actually reduce by? 

The Blyth express services are already half hourly, and for the most part serve other purposes than the train. 

Maybe the X21/22, but even if they're reduced to every 30 mins you're only reducing PVR by about 4? 

The following services will have zero impact at all:

1, 2, 35, 43, 44, 45, 47, 57/A, 306, 308, 434, 553, X14, X15, X16, X18. 

You'd argue minimal impact on: 
X7, X8, X20, X22. 

So there's only really the X9, X10/11, and X21 where there is potential for a noticeable impact? Even that's very debatable given how strong those currently are, and the new fares that have been introduced.

(07 Nov 2023, 11:47 am)mb134 wrote [ -> ]You keep posting about this like it's a certainty, realistically how much would PVR actually reduce by? 

The Blyth express services are already half hourly, and for the most part serve other purposes than the train. 

Maybe the X21/22, but even if they're reduced to every 30 mins you're only reducing PVR by about 4? 

The following services will have zero impact at all:

1, 2, 35, 43, 44, 45, 47, 57/A, 306, 308, 434, 553, X14, X15, X16, X18. 

You'd argue minimal impact on: 
X7, X8, X20, X22. 

So there's only really the X9, X10/11, and X21 where there is potential for a noticeable impact? Even that's very debatable given how strong those currently are, and the new fares that have been introduced.

It's funny I see the impacts totally different to what you see. Personally I'd say

2, 35, 43, 44, 45, 47, 57A, 306, 308, 434, 553, X14, X15, X16, X18 - No Impact

1 - Small impact, Bedlington Station to Ashington
57 - Small impact, Seaton Delaval connecting to Metro (I do this and so do others)
X22 - Small impact, North Ashington, down to 2 BPH
X9 - Small impact, around Bebside Station, too far to walk for most - no changes, new housing at West Cramlington will help it, potential to increase to 3 BPH?

X10/X11 - Medium impact, Blyth to Newcastle traffic but Cramlington traffic will still exist, merged as a superroute and dropped to 3 BPH. Combined with X9, 6 BPH Cramlington to Newcastle? Unsure what to do with Druridge Drive.

X7 - Big impact, unsustainable Seaton Delaval to Blyth, it's quiet as it is and very slow especially at peaks, 1 BPH Blyth to Newcastle, 1 BPH Holywell (loop Tillmouth) to Newcastle?
X8 - Big impact, unsustainable Cramlington to Blyth, no Newcastle traffic and no need for 4 BPH combined with above, 1 BPH Blyth to Newcastle, 1 BPH Cramlington to Newcastle, combined with X7 to give 2 BPH Newcastle to South Beach?
X21 - Big impact, Bedlington station area in both directions, dropped to 2 BPH, combined 4 BPH with 1/2 in shared sections.

(07 Nov 2023, 11:02 am)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Yeah Arriva, the same Arriva that scrapped most of the network in North Tyneside?, if they're not that bothered about the customers, then i dont see them being that bothered about the drivers, only one i have faith in now (barely) is Stagecoach, btw GNE,9 quid it just cost me in Taxis, adding that to the 16 it cost the other week, thats 25 now

Scrapped a loss making part of their network you mean, partly knowing that they needed to downsize due to the imminent loss of a depot in Newcastle and lack of space to move everything into Ashington and Blyth.

The same Arriva that provided full passenger and revenue data to Go North East and Stagecoach in advance of their cancellations, so to allow them both to decide if it was a viable option for them in order to maintain the network that they couldn't physically operate any longer?

That Arriva?

From the outside, it may appear to be wholly negative, but when you understand why, and what, it makes a lot of sense and all operators involved worked together to ensure something was maintained.

Dispute it as much as you want, but Arriva is probably the most financially stable operation in the region.

(07 Nov 2023, 6:00 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Scrapped a loss making part of their network you mean, partly knowing that they needed to downsize due to the imminent loss of a depot in Newcastle and lack of space to move everything into Ashington and Blyth.

The same Arriva that provided full passenger and revenue data to Go North East and Stagecoach in advance of their cancellations, so to allow them both to decide if it was a viable option for them in order to maintain the network that they couldn't physically operate any longer?

That Arriva?

From the outside, it may appear to be wholly negative, but when you understand why, and what, it makes a lot of sense and all operators involved worked together to ensure something was maintained.

Dispute it as much as you want, but Arriva is probably the most financially stable operation in the region.

They must be making a fortune on the 306/308 at the minute - every single bus I've seen has been packed.

(07 Nov 2023, 12:41 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]It's funny I see the impacts totally different to what you see. Personally I'd say

2, 35, 43, 44, 45, 47, 57A, 306, 308, 434, 553, X14, X15, X16, X18 - No Impact

1 - Small impact, Bedlington Station to Ashington
57 - Small impact, Seaton Delaval connecting to Metro (I do this and so do others)
X22 - Small impact, North Ashington, down to 2 BPH
X9 - Small impact, around Bebside Station, too far to walk for most - no changes, new housing at West Cramlington will help it, potential to increase to 3 BPH?

X10/X11 - Medium impact, Blyth to Newcastle traffic but Cramlington traffic will still exist, merged as a superroute and dropped to 3 BPH. Combined with X9, 6 BPH Cramlington to Newcastle? Unsure what to do with Druridge Drive.

X7 - Big impact, unsustainable Seaton Delaval to Blyth, it's quiet as it is and very slow especially at peaks, 1 BPH Blyth to Newcastle, 1 BPH Holywell (loop Tillmouth) to Newcastle?
X8 - Big impact, unsustainable Cramlington to Blyth, no Newcastle traffic and no need for 4 BPH combined with above, 1 BPH Blyth to Newcastle, 1 BPH Cramlington to Newcastle, combined with X7 to give 2 BPH Newcastle to South Beach?
X21 - Big impact, Bedlington station area in both directions, dropped to 2 BPH, combined 4 BPH with 1/2 in shared sections.

Won't reply to each service, but:

• I don't understand how the X8 is unsustainable between Blyth and Cramlington? It's not a section of the route that is at all impacted by the train, so it's surely just as sustainable as it is now? It's the only service between South Beach and Cramlington, as well as several other unique passenger flows. 
  
• Similar with the X7. It doesn't serve areas that are anywhere near the train stations in Blyth, and is the unique service along Amersham Road. Even with Seaton Delaval, a walk from Earsdon Avenue to the site of the station is 20 minutes while you'd already be passing Quorum on the X7. There will almost certainly be some impact, but the route is only served by one station on the line, and isn't this reportedly being delayed?
  
• On the X21, and to an extent the 1, I think there's a misunderstanding of the passenger numbers and flows on those services. There are lots of little hops, and lots of people who realistically aren't going to splash out on a train ticket when the bus is free. It's all well and good saying there's a station at Bedlington Station and one at Ashington, but if the train + walking time is more than the bus, then nobody is going to use it. Northumberland College, Wansbeck Hospital, Jubilee Industrial Estate, and the Welwyn are nowhere near the train station, yet the bus stops directly outside all of them (small walk for Jubilee), and will likely stop closer to their house too. There are also other huge passenger flows for the X21 in particular. Newbiggin to Ashington, Ashington to Bedlington, Ashington (Wansbeck Hospital, Milburn Road, The Elephant), Stakeford, Bedlington (Rothesay Terrace, Allgood Terrace, Front Street, Red House Farm/Meadowdale estates), and Nedderton to Newcastle, and all points on the route to Cramlington Industrial Estate where you often see crowds waiting/alighting in both directions at peak times. 
  

(07 Nov 2023, 10:58 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Won't reply to each service, but:

• I don't understand how the X8 is unsustainable between Blyth and Cramlington? It's not a section of the route that is at all impacted by the train, so it's surely just as sustainable as it is now? It's the only service between South Beach and Cramlington, as well as several other unique passenger flows. 
  
• Similar with the X7. It doesn't serve areas that are anywhere near the train stations in Blyth, and is the unique service along Amersham Road. Even with Seaton Delaval, a walk from Earsdon Avenue to the site of the station is 20 minutes while you'd already be passing Quorum on the X7. There will almost certainly be some impact, but the route is only served by one station on the line, and isn't this reportedly being delayed?
  
• On the X21, and to an extent the 1, I think there's a misunderstanding of the passenger numbers and flows on those services. There are lots of little hops, and lots of people who realistically aren't going to splash out on a train ticket when the bus is free. It's all well and good saying there's a station at Bedlington Station and one at Ashington, but if the train + walking time is more than the bus, then nobody is going to use it. Northumberland College, Wansbeck Hospital, Jubilee Industrial Estate, and the Welwyn are nowhere near the train station, yet the bus stops directly outside all of them (small walk for Jubilee), and will likely stop closer to their house too. There are also other huge passenger flows for the X21 in particular. Newbiggin to Ashington, Ashington to Bedlington, Ashington (Wansbeck Hospital, Milburn Road, The Elephant), Stakeford, Bedlington (Rothesay Terrace, Allgood Terrace, Front Street, Red House Farm/Meadowdale estates), and Nedderton to Newcastle, and all points on the route to Cramlington Industrial Estate where you often see crowds waiting/alighting in both directions at peak times. 
  

[attachment=10599]

Going to use the map above, South Beach is quite well covered really, arguably anyone in Orange Zone is walking distance of the X11, which is a hell of a lot more reliable, as it is (reason I kind of think that corridor should be back up to 3 BPH). The pink zone is covered by the 309 towards Newcastle, and again is a hell of a lot more reliable at peak times and more frequent with the combination of the red zone doing the rail. Combine that with the fact it's a car usage area anyway, not sure there's going to be enough demand there to keep it going.

Arguably some areas are going to use the X11 anyway for Cramlington as it's much closer to Amersham Drive than walking down to the A1061.

Obviously I'm not saying there's no demand, not sure how much there will be if you take a chunk of the Newcastle traffic away then I could see that part becoming a bit unsustainable.

The X7 is the same, the buses are exceptionally quiet beyond Elsdon Avenue as it is - I do think they'll do well to that point, there could even be a case for upping the frequency upto 3 BPH tbh upto there so it ran something like the below with 1 or 2 BPH terminating short and then the other 1 continuing to Blyth. Seaton Delaval, Seghill, Burradon where the people are and away from the rail line are all pretty much served. It's only really New Hartley which would be affected.

[attachment=10598]

Btw for the X21, technically you'd increase the frequency if you ran a clockwork timetable with the 1/2 to 4 BPH clean rather than jumping around but maybe there could be scope to up the 1 and 2 in frequency instead? Why bother sending buses to Newcastle if that's not where people want to be.

(07 Nov 2023, 6:00 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Scrapped a loss making part of their network you mean, partly knowing that they needed to downsize due to the imminent loss of a depot in Newcastle and lack of space to move everything into Ashington and Blyth.

The same Arriva that provided full passenger and revenue data to Go North East and Stagecoach in advance of their cancellations, so to allow them both to decide if it was a viable option for them in order to maintain the network that they couldn't physically operate any longer?

That Arriva?

From the outside, it may appear to be wholly negative, but when you understand why, and what, it makes a lot of sense and all operators involved worked together to ensure something was maintained.

Dispute it as much as you want, but Arriva is probably the most financially stable operation in the region.

Whatever, im not gonna sit here and blow smoke up your arse and tell you Arriva is good when they happily waited til 2023 to effectively leave people stranded after their services remained the same for quite some time, and dont throw covid at me as an excuse,cus that isnt going to fly with me, fine for several years, then all of a sudden theyre making a loss, load of bollocks pal

The 353 technically could be taken back by Arriva if they got space in Ashington and in situ, extended to Morpeth (worked using drivers out of Morpeth) in place of the 43 which wouldn't have enough Electric Deckers for the 43/44/45 boards unless extras were ordered.

(08 Nov 2023, 1:33 am)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Whatever, im not gonna sit here and blow smoke up your arse and tell you Arriva is good when they happily waited til 2023 to effectively leave people  stranded after their services remained the same for quite some time, and dont throw covid at me as an excuse,cus that isnt going to fly with me, fine for several years, then all of a sudden theyre making a loss, load of bollocks pal

Not expecting you to blow smoke up anyone's arse, but the content of this reply shows you have zero understanding, hence I see no point in responding any further detail.

(08 Nov 2023, 12:15 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Not expecting you to blow smoke up anyone's arse, but the content of this reply shows you have zero understanding, hence I see no point in responding any further detail.

[post removed]

(08 Nov 2023, 1:33 am)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Whatever, im not gonna sit here and blow smoke up your arse and tell you Arriva is good when they happily waited til 2023 to effectively leave people  stranded after their services remained the same for quite some time, and dont throw covid at me as an excuse,cus that isnt going to fly with me, fine for several years, then all of a sudden theyre making a loss, load of bollocks pal

Arriva network in SE Northuberland/North Tyneside was wrecked in 2010 and has never recovered since

Really wish there was a suitable express alternative to using Arriva to get from Cramlington to Newcastle, yesterday was a mess. I know it was a Saturday and a matchday but me and a lot of others had to let three X10/11's run past without stopping on Dudley Lane due to running late and at full capacity (1 of them being a single decker!).

It got to the point where we had to bite the bullet and get the no.43 for a near 50 minute tour of Dudley, Wideopen and the rest.

There was a couple of X8s cancelled as well just for good measure.

At least the sun was shining!

(12 May 2024, 7:17 pm)thw1008 wrote [ -> ]Really wish there was a suitable express alternative to using Arriva to get from Cramlington to Newcastle, yesterday was a mess. I know it was a Saturday and a matchday but me and a lot of others had to let three X10/11's run past without stopping on Dudley Lane due to running late and at full capacity (1 of them being a single decker!).

It got to the point where we had to bite the bullet and get the no.43 for a near 50 minute tour of Dudley, Wideopen and the rest.

There was a couple of X8s cancelled as well just for good measure.

At least the sun was shining!

Isn't the 43 only an extra 15 minutes or so? I used the 43 to get to town yesterday around 1:30pm and it didn't seem to take too long at all. 

The express solution would probably be to have duplicates starting at Cramlington, but to be honest at that stage they'd probably just think that the 43 does the equivalent.

(12 May 2024, 7:17 pm)thw1008 wrote [ -> ]Really wish there was a suitable express alternative to using Arriva to get from Cramlington to Newcastle, yesterday was a mess. I know it was a Saturday and a matchday but me and a lot of others had to let three X10/11's run past without stopping on Dudley Lane due to running late and at full capacity (1 of them being a single decker!).

It got to the point where we had to bite the bullet and get the no.43 for a near 50 minute tour of Dudley, Wideopen and the rest.

There was a couple of X8s cancelled as well just for good measure.

At least the sun was shining!

Train? Most people forget it's there in Cramlington, only hourly though but seems like you waited longer than that anyway.

About a 40 minute walk from my house on a good day, which ironically would've been quicker than standing at the bus stop!

I tend to use the train if I can get a lift to the station, 15 minutes into town is bliss compared to the buses

(12 May 2024, 7:35 pm)thw1008 wrote [ -> ]About a 40 minute walk from my house on a good day, which ironically would've been quicker than standing at the bus stop! 

I tend to use the train if I can get a lift to the station, 15 minutes into town is bliss compared to the buses

Ah yeah bit of a problem then, the X7/X8/X9 have been a shambles for ages now though, can't wait for us to get the train line so I don't have to deal with them anymore. The 57/57A (our other bus) is just as bad since the 57A extension. Whole network is a complete mess, singles just seem to be allocated randomly now which doesn't help.

(12 May 2024, 7:17 pm)thw1008 wrote [ -> ]Really wish there was a suitable express alternative to using Arriva to get from Cramlington to Newcastle, yesterday was a mess. I know it was a Saturday and a matchday but me and a lot of others had to let three X10/11's run past without stopping on Dudley Lane due to running late and at full capacity (1 of them being a single decker!).

It got to the point where we had to bite the bullet and get the no.43 for a near 50 minute tour of Dudley, Wideopen and the rest.

There was a couple of X8s cancelled as well just for good measure.

At least the sun was shining!

Sorry u want a suitable express from Cramlington to Newcastle 

X10
X11
X9 

All run from Cramlington to Newcastle with the X9 going a slightly different way but all use the A1 to Gosforth. 

43 imo is used cause it's a straight line. It's not a tour of Dudley. The 43 between Newcastle & Cramlington is imo the best simple route for Arriva. Looking on a map its straight forward and easy. 

Why or how would you want a suitable express route. The X10/X11 are express between Newcastle & Gosforth then non stop to Cramlington with the stops at South Field Green. Idk how any more of an express you make it

(12 May 2024, 7:45 pm)Aaron21 wrote [ -> ]Sorry u want a suitable express from Cramlington to Newcastle 

X10
X11
X9 

All run from Cramlington to Newcastle with the X9 going a slightly different way but all use the A1 to Gosforth. 

43 imo is used cause it's a straight line. It's not a tour of Dudley. The 43 between Newcastle & Cramlington is imo the best simple route for Arriva. Looking on a map its straight forward and easy. 

Why or how would you want a suitable express route. The X10/X11 are express between Newcastle & Gosforth then non stop to Cramlington with the stops at South Field Green. Idk how any more of an express you make it

You missed the word alternative there, the non express alternatives being the 37 or 352 but you'd be mad to use them to go to Newcastle.

I only really use the buses on weekends and the occasional weekday so maybe my opinion isn't totally balanced, but in fairness the X10/11 used to be a decent service when it ran at a combined 10 mins per bus. Busy but could always get a seat. But like most things post covid it's just never recovered sufficiently to warrant the 10 minute service?

I've always thought a Newcastle-Cramlington express only would be a good idea (forming a sort of loop around the town i.e. avoiding Manor Walks) and it would maybe release the pressure on the existing 'X' buses.

Would running the X30 on weekends work, as well?

Some competition from another operator for the whole South East Northumberland area would be welcome. Hopefully the new train line will make a difference as well.