North East Buses

83A to be withdrawn & TB14 to have Saturday service withdrawn 

New nexus consultations

(21 Dec 2024, 11:37 am)Aaron21 wrote [ -> ]83A to be withdrawn & TB14 to have Saturday service withdrawn 

New nexus consultations

2 of the most pointless services................

Just wasting money

(21 Dec 2024, 12:22 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]2 of the most pointless services................

Just wasting money

See this is what I hate about people these days

The 83A i can understand 

But not the TB14. These services are for elderly or bus companies that withdraw a service round that part. If these services are cut then the elderly have to walk or taxi it instead. I don't understand why this is such a problem for people who don't use the services and see it as pointless. This is what the consultations says

Why are we considering changes to this service?

The number of passengers using the service on Saturday is extremely low, with an average of 1 passenger per trip. The cost of running the Saturday service is approximately £20.00 per passenger. This is unviable as things stand today and we need to make changes to keep the service viable for most of those that use it. 

What changes are we proposing?

To lower costs with the aim of improving overall viability, we propose to cancel the Saturday service. The TB14 would therefore operate on a Monday to Friday basis with no change to the current timetable.

How would customers be affected by our proposed changes?

The service will run on weekdays to maintain links to healthcare and shopping facilities. There will be no direct link between Kibblesworth and Birtley on Saturday daytimes. Parts of the Northfields Estate in Birtley will also lose its Saturday service.

(21 Dec 2024, 8:30 pm)Aaron21 wrote [ -> ]See this is what I hate about people these days

The 83A i can understand 

But not the TB14. These services are for elderly or bus companies that withdraw a service round that part. If these services are cut then the elderly have to walk or taxi it instead. I don't understand why this is such a problem for people who don't use the services and see it as pointless. This is what the consultations says

Why are we considering changes to this service?

The number of passengers using the service on Saturday is extremely low, with an average of 1 passenger per trip. The cost of running the Saturday service is approximately £20.00 per passenger. This is unviable as things stand today and we need to make changes to keep the service viable for most of those that use it. 

What changes are we proposing?

To lower costs with the aim of improving overall viability, we propose to cancel the Saturday service. The TB14 would therefore operate on a Monday to Friday basis with no change to the current timetable.

How would customers be affected by our proposed changes?

The service will run on weekdays to maintain links to healthcare and shopping facilities. There will be no direct link between Kibblesworth and Birtley on Saturday daytimes. Parts of the Northfields Estate in Birtley will also lose its Saturday service.

You’re contradicting yourself there. Most people would argue a service carrying 1 passenger per trip is a pointless service…

(21 Dec 2024, 9:09 pm)Thomas12 wrote [ -> ]You’re contradicting yourself there. Most people would argue a service carrying 1 passenger per trip is a pointless service…

And at £20 per head, it would probably work out cheaper for Nexus to provide a taxi for the affected person using that service to Birtley (or Kibby) and back.

(21 Dec 2024, 10:45 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]And at £20 per head, it would probably work out cheaper for Nexus to provide a taxi for the affected person using that service to Birtley (or Kibby) and back.

This is where some version of that Tees Valley Flex this would come in handy.

(21 Dec 2024, 8:30 pm)Aaron21 wrote [ -> ]But not the TB14. These services are for elderly or bus companies that withdraw a service round that part. If these services are cut then the elderly have to walk or taxi it instead. I don't understand why this is such a problem for people who don't use the services and see it as pointless. 

Many areas nowadays have a reduced (or no service at all) on Saturdays now when passenger numbers are lower, Durham County Council only provide funding to run the following M-F: Aycliffe 17, Barney 70/71/72, & Shildon-Spennymoor 99 - whilst the 81/89 in Bishop & 700/1/2/3 in CLS didn't run on Saturdays until a few year back.

Unfortunately for that cost and average passenger number, it is just not worth value in funding and costs saved would be better utilised elsewhere.

(22 Dec 2024, 7:20 am)nova347 wrote [ -> ]This is where some version of that Tees Valley Flex this would come in handy.

They arguably waste just as much, if not more money than just running a scheduled service.

(22 Dec 2024, 5:57 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Many areas nowadays have a reduced (or no service at all) on Saturdays now when passenger numbers are lower, Durham County Council only provide funding to run the following M-F: Aycliffe 17, Barney 70/71/72, & Shildon-Spennymoor 99 - whilst the 81/89 in Bishop & 700/1/2/3 in CLS didn't run on Saturdays until a few year back.

Unfortunately for that cost and average passenger number, it is just not worth value in funding and costs saved would be better utilised elsewhere.

 


They arguably waste just as much, if not more money than just running a scheduled service.

It would be interesting to see the circular economic benefits of keeping them vs withdrawing them. 

I'd love to see the breakdown of the £20 spend vs what is spent on a high street or local business and the impact on the local economy.

(22 Dec 2024, 9:10 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]It would be interesting to see the circular economic benefits of keeping them vs withdrawing them. 

I'd love to see the breakdown of the £20 spend vs what is spent on a high street or local business and the impact on the local economy.

Nothing I'd imagine, the whole Birtley network needs redone though bar the 21 everything is subsidised so it's not like they don't have opportunities to actually try and do something which might actually make money and linking places where people want to go which isn't Kibblesworth or a housing estate. That big retail park and industrial estate immediately north from there, nahhhh. Stanley... nahhh send the buses to Chester Le Street on a horse shoe route instead...

The network is a complete mess around there as an understatement. If GNE cries that it might take some of their passengers then tough luck, they're always welcome to run the service...

It's where NECA or whatever they're called needs to step in as having a 3 different councils with different self interests is what's leading to the mess imo.

So my thing with the TB14 I don’t have a problem with entirely scrapping it. Firstly it’s literally a ford van that rarely actually carries the branding. It’s a case of of you know…you know

The TB14 is a relic of the 80s. Part of it replaced the 23 which used to go Vigo bridge and back to malone gardens. In an age when the car didn’t exist and online wasn’t a thing. Those areas are full of 2 car families and most within a 3 to 5 minute stroll for Durham Road and the 21/28/X12.

The new estates it covers have no interest in using a bus, north side was not built with buses in mind. It has 2 car drives.

(22 Dec 2024, 11:03 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]So my thing with the TB14 I don’t have a problem with entirely scrapping it. Firstly it’s literally a ford van that rarely actually carries the branding. It’s a case of of you know…you know

The TB14 is a relic of the 80s. Part of it replaced the 23 which used to go Vigo bridge and back to malone gardens. In an age when the car didn’t exist and online wasn’t a thing. Those areas are full of 2 car families and most within a 3 to 5 minute stroll for Durham Road and the 21/28/X12.

The new estates it covers have no interest in using a bus, north side was not built with buses in mind. It has 2 car drives.

You'd need something to cover Kibblesworth to Birtley though, definitely need a link there imo.

Personally I wish they'd use the BSIP and restore the 24/X25/28/28A/29/82 pretty much back to the way they were pre COVID. They were all commercial services but ruined by GNE jumping the gun and cutting them to pieces or in the case of the 82 not bothering to run it at all.

With the cheaper fares etc then there's no reason why they couldn't be nearly commercial again. It's objectively better than a bunch of hourly services trying to cover everything with bizarre duplicates like the 28/82. I could understand at the time why they done it though as there wasn't any money to actually run anything and Nexus and Co. Durham were on different page lengths.

You could make similar arguments for the mess in East Durham, in the Murton area, in particular with the 55 and 62 restored.

The thing is a lot of people just think it's a waste of money. Yet look at half the suggestions that come up on here. This a route for the elderly and the fact nexus won't even make a change to a bus route or even make a new one using the BSIP is stupid imo. There cutting a vital link on a Saturday which people use. Yea it's not a lot but think about how many times nexus cut a service then it needs restored again. Let's go back to when the M6 was cut in Newcastle. Quite a few people were not happy it was being cut and nexus simple went "don't care" and cut it anyway. I'd rather they keep it for the elderly and let us just leave these services alone cause

1, we don't live on them or near them to care
2, thr fact we have people on here winge & moaning about a service that's used by the elderly is seen as a "waste of money". Yet we are bringing suggestions of the 22 to Hadrian Park or a more frequent bus service to Durham (when the X12/X21/21) already exist. Yea maybe improvements are needed but not a whole rework

(23 Dec 2024, 7:51 am)Aaron21 wrote [ -> ]The thing is a lot of people just think it's a waste of money. Yet look at half the suggestions that come up on here. This a route for the elderly and the fact nexus won't even make a change to a bus route or even make a new one using the BSIP is stupid imo. There cutting a vital link on a Saturday which people use. Yea it's not a lot but think about how many times nexus cut a service then it needs restored again. Let's go back to when the M6 was cut in Newcastle. Quite a few people were not happy it was being cut and nexus simple went "don't care" and cut it anyway. I'd rather they keep it for the elderly and let us just leave these services alone cause

1, we don't live on them or near them to care
2, thr fact we have people on here winge & moaning about a service that's used by the elderly is seen as a "waste of money". Yet we are bringing suggestions of the 22 to Hadrian Park or a more frequent bus service to Durham (when the X12/X21/21) already exist. Yea maybe improvements are needed but not a whole rework

How can you not understand that a service with an average of 1 passenger per trip is not viable?

(22 Dec 2024, 9:40 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Nothing I'd imagine, the whole Birtley network needs redone though bar the 21 everything is subsidised so it's not like they don't have opportunities to actually try and do something which might actually make money and linking places where people want to go which isn't Kibblesworth or a housing estate. That big retail park and industrial estate immediately north from there, nahhhh. Stanley... nahhh send the buses to Chester Le Street on a horse shoe route instead...

The network is a complete mess around there as an understatement. If GNE cries that it might take some of their passengers then tough luck, they're always welcome to run the service...

It's where NECA or whatever they're called needs to step in as having a 3 different councils with different self interests is what's leading to the mess imo.

I agree, the entire network in Birtley is an utter shambles. 
The finger of blame can be pointed in the direction of GNE and Nexus. 

However, there must be some sort of economic benefit to the existing network. 
Doris gets the bus down from Portmeads in to Birtley. She can't walk it, so uses her twirly. 
She collects her pension from the Post Office and buys Mavis (the next door neighbour) a birthday card.
Pops across the road to Greggs, buys some bread and a little treat for later.

Then does some shopping in Morrisons (not too much, cos she can't carry what she used to) and then collects a few slices of bacon from the butchers because she prefers it to Morrisons bacon.
4 businesses directly benefit from the bus. 2 small independent and 2 bigger chains. 

The next time she goes down, she bumps in to Mavis and they have a cup of tea in the cafe, before Mavis goes to get her hair set. 
Doris needs to pop to the town, so jumps on the 21.
Coming back, with her stuff from Newcastle, she sees the 25. Wouldn't normally use it, but it saves waiting in Birtley for a bus back up the hill. 

I'm not saying these businesses or the main network wouldn't last without the TB14 or whatever, but there's clearly an impact to withdrawing them.

(23 Dec 2024, 11:49 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I agree, the entire network in Birtley is an utter shambles. 
The finger of blame can be pointed in the direction of GNE and Nexus. 

However, there must be some sort of economic benefit to the existing network. 
Doris gets the bus down from Portmeads in to Birtley. She can't walk it, so uses her twirly. 
She collects her pension from the Post Office and buys Mavis (the next door neighbour) a birthday card.
Pops across the road to Greggs, buys some bread and a little treat for later.

Then does some shopping in Morrisons (not too much, cos she can't carry what she used to) and then collects a few slices of bacon from the butchers because she prefers it to Morrisons bacon.
4 businesses directly benefit from the bus. 2 small independent and 2 bigger chains. 

The next time she goes down, she bumps in to Mavis and they have a cup of tea in the cafe, before Mavis goes to get her hair set. 
Doris needs to pop to the town, so jumps on the 21.
Coming back, with her stuff from Newcastle, she sees the 25. Wouldn't normally use it, but it saves waiting in Birtley for a bus back up the hill. 

I'm not saying these businesses or the main network wouldn't last without the TB14 or whatever, but there's clearly an impact to withdrawing them.

Tounge in cheek but the 82 does that

Don't disagree though, but personally I do think any route subsidised should have some worth to it and shouldn't be about serving an estate that has another bus route 5 minutes walk away which is the case for the TB14 in Birtley where there's the 21/25/82 nearby depending where you are.

(23 Dec 2024, 11:49 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I agree, the entire network in Birtley is an utter shambles. 
The finger of blame can be pointed in the direction of GNE and Nexus. 

However, there must be some sort of economic benefit to the existing network. 
Doris gets the bus down from Portmeads in to Birtley. She can't walk it, so uses her twirly. 
She collects her pension from the Post Office and buys Mavis (the next door neighbour) a birthday card.
Pops across the road to Greggs, buys some bread and a little treat for later.

Then does some shopping in Morrisons (not too much, cos she can't carry what she used to) and then collects a few slices of bacon from the butchers because she prefers it to Morrisons bacon.
4 businesses directly benefit from the bus. 2 small independent and 2 bigger chains. 

The next time she goes down, she bumps in to Mavis and they have a cup of tea in the cafe, before Mavis goes to get her hair set. 
Doris needs to pop to the town, so jumps on the 21.
Coming back, with her stuff from Newcastle, she sees the 25. Wouldn't normally use it, but it saves waiting in Birtley for a bus back up the hill. 

I'm not saying these businesses or the main network wouldn't last without the TB14 or whatever, but there's clearly an impact to withdrawing them.

Doris and Mavis bump into old friends Jack and Victor , and end up in the CIU club for a few gin and tonics. Benefits all around.

(23 Dec 2024, 1:10 pm)Economic505 wrote [ -> ]Doris and Mavis bump into old friends Jack and Victor , and end up in the CIU club for a few gin and tonics. Benefits all around.

Different sorts of benefits by the sounds of it!