(14 Nov 2025, 12:33 pm)Arriva7446 wrote [ -> ]Hearing on Facebook that some vehicles have failed emissions standards for Newcastle CAZ, and as such have moved from Blyth to Ashington and are doing the local services 1 and 2 and 57. 7636 is one, 7502, 7506. Not sure if this is true.
If that is the case it may explain why 7578-80 are at Blyth (and not just to cover for vehicles away for repainting). Again, if they have failed the emission tests, is it likely they will get fixed - i.e. replacing/cleaning their particulate filters considering their age? Or will they be kept at Ashington for the 1/2/57/57a?
(14 Nov 2025, 5:53 pm)solsburian wrote [ -> ]If that is the case it may explain why 7578-80 are at Blyth (and not just to cover for vehicles away for repainting). Again, if they have failed the emission tests, is it likely they will get fixed - i.e. replacing/cleaning their particulate filters considering their age? Or will they be kept at Ashington for the 1/2/57/57a?
7502/4/6 are all at Ashington and likely won't be fixed as they're first due for the scrap heap when the new buses arrive, 7636 is a slightly different case as believe the 61-plate batch is due to stick around a little longer - so may be more likely that it receives some attention but in the short-term might as well use it at Ashington.
(14 Nov 2025, 6:27 pm)peter wrote [ -> ]7502/4/6 are all at Ashington and likely won't be fixed as they're first due for the scrap heap when the new buses arrive, 7636 is a slightly different case as believe the 61-plate batch is due to stick around a little longer - so may be more likely that it receives some attention but in the short-term might as well use it at Ashington.
That does not surprise me TBH. Back in the day I was surprised the 57 plate E400s received the mods at all given their reputation (as a layman) - but they have soldiered on since they received them.
The issue is with the supplier, Eminox.
The kits they used for retrofitment are failing and due to the volume across the country of retrofit issues, parts are on backorder, with lead times of months, not weeks.
Rumours are that some of Durham MMCs will move north to help provide cover too.
(14 Nov 2025, 8:31 pm)Superman wrote [ -> ]The issue is with the supplier, Eminox.
The kits they used for retrofitment are failing and due to the volume across the country of retrofit issues, parts are on backorder, with lead times of months, not weeks.
Rumours are that some of Durham MMCs will move north to help provide cover too.
Guess this explains the allocations being all over the place at GoNorthEast and some of the random moves at Stagecoach aswell.
(14 Nov 2025, 8:31 pm)Superman wrote [ -> ]Rumours are that some of Durham MMCs will move north to help provide cover too.
Should they not have ended up in Northumbria in the first place given Northumbria is way more profitable than Durham & Tees?
(14 Nov 2025, 8:31 pm)Superman wrote [ -> ]The issue is with the supplier, Eminox.
The kits they used for retrofitment are failing and due to the volume across the country of retrofit issues, parts are on backorder, with lead times of months, not weeks.
Rumours are that some of Durham MMCs will move north to help provide cover too.
If it's that big an issue, I suspect some councils are going to have to make some hard decisions as to whether to (temporarily) relax their emissions requirements, or risk losing huge chunks of bus services as the vehicles cannot be used.
Alternatively, is there a case for the operators to use non-compliant vehicles, pick up the financial penalty, and then pass that on to Eminox in a compensation claim?
(15 Nov 2025, 8:00 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Should they not have ended up in Northumbria in the first place given Northumbria is way more profitable than Durham & Tees?
Sorry, but who told you that? Seriously, for years, Durham County was the most profitable side of the division - indeed there was years about a decade ago where due to various long-standing payments on sites etc, Northumbria was actually a loss-making division. Northumbria have only had a significant amount of investment in recent years due to the CAZ in Newcastle.
(15 Nov 2025, 8:00 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Should they not have ended up in Northumbria in the first place given Northumbria is way more profitable than Durham & Tees?
Next joke please x4 x93 are the most profitable runs in Redcar whitby area
(15 Nov 2025, 9:46 am)Bob5666 wrote [ -> ]Next joke please x4 x93 are the most profitable runs in Redcar whitby area
The 63 is surely the most profitable bus route down there? It has Linthorpe Road and James Cook Hospital in Middlesbrough which are the sort of things which make them a gold mine.
It's one of the most frequent bus routes in the North East, assuming the 10 minute frequence not temporary 15 minute service.
(15 Nov 2025, 9:57 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]The 63 is surely the most profitable bus route down there? It has Linthorpe Road and James Cook Hospital in Middlesbrough which are the sort of things which make them a gold mine.
It's one of the most frequent bus routes in the North East, assuming the 10 minute frequence not temporary 15 minute service.
Excluding any of the legacy Stagecooach / Busways' routes (i.e 39/40, 62/63) - Arriva's 308 was likely the second most profifable behind GNE's 21 in the North East before covid.
If you look at Arriva Northumbria, their likely most profitable routes (or sections for longer journeys) are:
- 306/308
- X10/X11
- X21/X22
- 43/44/45
- X14/X15/X16/X18 - Ncl > Morpeth
- X15/X18 - Ncl > Alnwick
(15 Nov 2025, 10:23 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Excluding any of the legacy Stagecooach / Busways' routes (i.e 39/40, 62/63) - Arriva's 308 was likely the second most profifable behind GNE's 21 in the North East before covid.
If you look at Arriva Northumbria, their likely most profitable routes (or sections for longer journeys) are:
- 306/308
- X10/X11
- X21/X22
- 43/44/45
- X14/X15/X16/X18 - Ncl > Morpeth
- X15/X18 - Ncl > Alnwick
Oh I don't know on the 308, you know.
I have a feeling there might be some hidden ones in there which are less obvious. These ones in particular:
2: Red Hall to Cockerton
8: Middlesbrough to Netherfields
15: North Tees Hospital to Ingleby Barwick
64: Arnison to Sherburn
They're all so short in length or have the major destination mid route so you effectively have 2 lots of passengers ie. the 64 has an Arnison to Durham load, then it picks a whole new load up from Durham to Sherburn.
They might not have the most people on the bus, but they're doing more trips in an hour. The 15 on paper has 3 different core bits (Hospital to Stockton / Stockton to Thornaby and Thornaby to Ingleby Barwick) and Stockton and Thornaby are both busy places.
The GNE 56 is another one, as there won't be many people going end to end but they're busy at both ends so people are very likely swapping somewhere. The 308 on the other hand from Newcastle to North Tyneside Hospital isn't really picking anyone up.
(15 Nov 2025, 8:00 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Should they not have ended up in Northumbria in the first place given Northumbria is way more profitable than Durham & Tees?
I won’t go into specifics, but since the closure of Newcastle, the Northumbria business has become one of the most profitable areas in all of UKB on a fully loaded margin basis, second only to Merseyside.
Durham County still has its challenges, but there are some significant changes coming next year to address that.
Confirmed this week also is the first part of the 2026 diesel order.
31 x E400MMC (Ashington, Blyth and Redcar to benefit)
18 x E200MMC (Currently planned all to go to Stockton, but this might change)
Blyth, Darlington and Durham also still due their electrics (total of 49) and a second diesel order is expected for more Evoras (hence the split in approval due to manufacturer).
That's 98 new vehicles already approved with further to come. Almost a third of the fleet to be renewed in 2026.
(15 Nov 2025, 9:57 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]The 63 is surely the most profitable bus route down there? It has Linthorpe Road and James Cook Hospital in Middlesbrough which are the sort of things which make them a gold mine.
It's one of the most frequent bus routes in the North East, assuming the 10 minute frequence not temporary 15 minute service.
X4s x93s full standing loads tho i have actually seen it and been on
Cool, new buses for Blyth. First time I will be riding on a new bus on my local routes since I first got into buses in 2016 (apart from the 2 month spell in 2022 where the 57 had new buses)
Regarding the emissions, I wonder if there is more buses being affected by this, but so far they have only been able to do a few swaps, so there might be others which are receiving fines daily. I guess we will see if they bring in the 16 plate MMC's to cover.
I would expect they would fix the issue on the 61 plate Gemini though. They still have a few years in them I think. 57 plates probably be gone in 6 months though.
(15 Nov 2025, 1:24 pm)Bob5666 wrote [ -> ]X4s x93s full standing loads tho i have actually seen it and been on
Very seasonal though.
The 63 has loads of swapping loads though, so you might have 25 people on at Redcar and then 25 people on at Middlesbrough but it's pretty guaranteed it's not the same 25 people unless people are lost as it doesn't make sense to do that journey.
Add the people doing trips to the hospital or whatever in between you could be looking at like 60 people on each hourly'ish run.
The same number of people on the X4 is roughly 100 people because it's twice the length, obviously ignoring ticket prices and things here and some assumptions on the numbers but I'd be surprised the X4 is more profitable.
Truthfully I always seen the 63 as the flagship route in all of Teesside with the 15 and SNE 36/37/38
(15 Nov 2025, 10:39 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]The 308 on the other hand from Newcastle to North Tyneside Hospital isn't really picking anyone up.
It's wild to say that the 308 isn't picking up from Newcastle to North Tyneside Hospital.
Almost every time I've used it, it's picked up at Corner House, most slip road stops (including Silverlink), and then through Billy Mill. Even if they weren't picking huge amounts up at those stops, they leave Newcastle Haymarket with decent loads on almost every trip and also pick up again at St. Mary's Place, Sandyford, and Cradlewell.
(15 Nov 2025, 10:49 am)Superman wrote [ -> ]I won’t go into specifics, but since the closure of Newcastle, the Northumbria business has become one of the most profitable areas in all of UKB on a fully loaded margin basis, second only to Merseyside.
Durham County still has its challenges, but there are some significant changes coming next year to address that.
Confirmed this week also is the first part of the 2026 diesel order.
31 x E400MMC (Ashington, Blyth and Redcar to benefit)
18 x E200MMC (Currently planned all to go to Stockton, but this might change)
Blyth, Darlington and Durham also still due their electrics (total of 49) and a second diesel order is expected for more Evoras (hence the split in approval due to manufacturer).
That's 98 new vehicles already approved with further to come. Almost a third of the fleet to be renewed in 2026.
100+ buses within one financial year is exceptionally good going.
Rough maths:
19x E400s (57/58/09-plates)
15x DB300s (59-plates)
14x E200s (72-plates)
81x Pulsars (09/59/10-plates)
Seem to be the most likely candidates (or have been confirmed as) for replacement (E200s to another division?). Given the 61-plate Pulsars are in a hell of a state (particularly the MX61 batch), I wonder if some of the repainted/refurbished ex-Merseyside 09/59/10-plates may stay longer in place of the interurban examples.
Out of interest, are the Evoras only for Tees Valley or is there a large number of those due also?
(15 Nov 2025, 11:52 pm)PH - BQA wrote [ -> ]It's wild to say that the 308 isn't picking up from Newcastle to North Tyneside Hospital.
Almost every time I've used it, it's picked up at Corner House, most slip road stops (including Silverlink), and then through Billy Mill. Even if they weren't picking huge amounts up at those stops, they leave Newcastle Haymarket with decent loads on almost every trip and also pick up again at St. Mary's Place, Sandyford, and Cradlewell.
You missed the really there, it's nowhere near the numbers of something like the 64 does, especially at Christmas time, which could leave the Arnison with a full load, then pick another massive load up at Durham, and pick another healthy load heading back to the Arnison if it's the case of the short runs in the time of a 308 board.
If it was as profitable as some people think it is, why would you give up the corridor to GoNorthEast and enter a partnership with a 25% frequency reduction at the same time? Not to mention the fares are nearly half the price (literally) of something like the X10/X11/X21/X22 which have similar loads.
(16 Nov 2025, 12:20 am)PH - BQA wrote [ -> ]100+ buses within one financial year is exceptionally good going.
Rough maths:
19x E400s (57/58/09-plates)
15x DB300s (59-plates)
14x E200s (72-plates)
81x Pulsars (09/59/10-plates)
Seem to be the most likely candidates (or have been confirmed as) for replacement (E200s to another division?). Given the 61-plate Pulsars are in a hell of a state (particularly the MX61 batch), I wonder if some of the repainted/refurbished ex-Merseyside 09/59/10-plates may stay longer in place of the interurban examples.
Out of interest, are the Evoras only for Tees Valley or is there a large number of those due also?
6x B9TL's I wouldn't be surprised to go either, with them heading to Kent or wherever to join their sister vehicles. They're going to be an awkward microfleet otherwise. Also remember that the Temsa's need to be replaced still aswell as they've been withdrawn by temporary cuts to the 63.
(16 Nov 2025, 8:14 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]You missed the really there, it's nowhere near the numbers of something like the 64 does, especially at Christmas time, which could leave the Arnison with a full load, then pick another massive load up at Durham, and pick another healthy load heading back to the Arnison if it's the case of the short runs in the time of a 308 board.
If it was as profitable as some people think it is, why would you give up the corridor to GoNorthEast and enter a partnership with a 25% frequency reduction at the same time? Not to mention the fares are nearly half the price (literally) of something like the X10/X11/X21/X22 which have similar loads.
6x B9TL's I wouldn't be surprised to go either, with them heading to Kent or wherever to join their sister vehicles. They're going to be an awkward microfleet otherwise. Also remember that the Temsa's need to be replaced still aswell as they've been withdrawn by temporary cuts to the 63.
Temsa have been replaced by pulsars 1370 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 86 are the replacements
(16 Nov 2025, 8:14 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]You missed the really there, it's nowhere near the numbers of something like the 64 does, especially at Christmas time, which could leave the Arnison with a full load, then pick another massive load up at Durham, and pick another healthy load heading back to the Arnison if it's the case of the short runs in the time of a 308 board.
If it was as profitable as some people think it is, why would you give up the corridor to GoNorthEast and enter a partnership with a 25% frequency reduction at the same time? Not to mention the fares are nearly half the price (literally) of something like the X10/X11/X21/X22 which have similar loads.
6x B9TL's I wouldn't be surprised to go either, with them heading to Kent or wherever to join their sister vehicles. They're going to be an awkward microfleet otherwise. Also remember that the Temsa's need to be replaced still aswell as they've been withdrawn by temporary cuts to the 63.
Temsa have been replaced by pulsars 1370 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 86 are the replacements
4709 19 are with 4718 at Telford
4701 is declcated to x3a schoolars
This is what I'm getting for the decker order & possible allocations although could be wrong or could all change. Only Northumbria including Redcar is taken into account and not the rest of the North East (Tees/Durham) ops:
E400 Classic:
- 11x 14/64 plate E400
- 3x 15 plate E400
E400MMC:
- 12x 17 plate E400MMC
- 19x 72 plate E400MMC
- 31x NEW 26/76 plate E400MMC
TOT: 62
Ashington/Redcar PVR's
- X14/X15/X16(777)/X18 - 16x (Winter)
- X20/X30 - 6x
- X21/35 - 14x
- X22 - 7x
- X93 - 6x (Winter)
TOT: 49 - Leaving 13x for Blyth
Blyth PVR's (excl 43/44/45)
- X7/X8/X10/X11 - 18x
- X9 - 5x
- 306/308 - 14x
Redcar (PVR 6):
- 6x new E400MMC
* Unsure about summer extras??
Ashington (PVR 43 + 3x spare):
- 25x new E400MMC
- 19x 72 plate E400MMC
- 2x 17 plate E400MMC
Blyth (PVR 37):
- 10x 17 plate E400MMC
- 14x E400 Classic
- 13x 61 plate DB300
- 5x spare 61 plate DB300
However.......if there was to be some standardisation so that Northumbria was all MMC's..........there could be straight swap with 7522, 7524-33, 7553, 7554, 7556 going to Belmont in exchange for 7582-95.
(16 Nov 2025, 11:02 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]This is what I'm getting for the decker order & possible allocations although could be wrong or could all change. Only Northumbria including Redcar is taken into account and not the rest of the North East (Tees/Durham) ops:
E400 Classic:
- 11x 14/64 plate E400
- 3x 15 plate E400
E400MMC:
- 12x 17 plate E400MMC
- 19x 72 plate E400MMC
- 31x NEW 26/76 plate E400MMC
TOT: 62
Ashington/Redcar PVR's
- X14/X15/X16(777)/X18 - 16x (Winter)
- X20/X30 - 6x
- X21/35 - 14x
- X22 - 7x
- X93 - 6x (Winter)
TOT: 49 - Leaving 13x for Blyth
Blyth PVR's (excl 43/44/45)
- X7/X8/X10/X11 - 18x
- X9 - 5x
- 306/308 - 14x
Redcar (PVR 6):
- 6x new E400MMC
* Unsure about summer extras??
Ashington (PVR 43 + 3x spare):
- 25x new E400MMC
- 19x 72 plate E400MMC
- 2x 17 plate E400MMC
Blyth (PVR 37):
- 10x 17 plate E400MMC
- 14x E400 Classic
- 13x 61 plate DB300
- 5x spare 61 plate DB300
However.......if there was to be some standardisation so that Northumbria was all MMC's..........there could be straight swap with 7522, 7524-33, 7553, 7554, 7556 going to Belmont in exchange for 7582-95.
I personally can't see that at all.
I'd go for
Blyth:
X7/X8/X10/X11: 18x 72 Plate E400MMC + 1 Spare
306/308: 14x DB300
X9/553: 6x Pulsar (1499-1504)
43/44/45: 14x Electrics
Spares: 5x DB300/1505
Out: 1389/1463/80/93/95/96/7501-7/9/7522/24/25/56-58/60/62/7601-8/11-15
Ashington:
X14/X15/X16/X18/X20/X30/777: 22x New E400MMC + 3 Spare
X21/X22/35: 12x 17 Plate E400MMC + 9x E400 Classics
Spares: E400 Classics
Out: 1390-4/1404/62/79/97/1512/13/7563-7577
Whitby:
X93: 6x New E400MMC, unsure on the Summer extras - maybe keep the B9TL's clinging on until the E400MMC's are released from Durham?
Out: 7578-81
The fact that there's currently 3 E400MMC's at Blyth isn't an accident, and depending when these new buses come - might never leave either. Blyth never use the E400's on a Sunday, I'll highly doubt they'll want more of them in frontline work there.
Also, given that this is quite a substantial order / investment being made on the 30th anniversary year of Cowie's acquiring United Automobile Services & British Bus (Northumbria), it would be great to see a few examples going back into the UAS & NMS colours similar to what Stagecoach did for Busways & Cleveland and Transit.
NMS also marking 40 years since Northumbria was formed too!
Could even hoy the Arriva nearside passenger windows sticker in like what both operators did in the interim until repainted between 1998 & 2001/02.
(16 Nov 2025, 11:02 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]However.......if there was to be some standardisation so that Northumbria was all MMC's..........there could be straight swap with 7522, 7524-33, 7553, 7554, 7556 going to Belmont in exchange for 7582-95.
7594/5 are earmarked for Whitby for the Park & Ride next summer.
Likewise, I understand when Durham get their electric deckers next year, the remaining MMCs will likely be cascaded to Darlington to replace 7516/8-21 as well as displacing Pulsars to allow additional working to move to Decker operation (or allow the current crop of Decker-allocated boards to be always Decker operated).
(16 Nov 2025, 11:49 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]The fact that there's currently 3 E400MMC's at Blyth isn't an accident, and depending when these new buses come - might never leave either. Blyth never use the E400's on a Sunday, I'll highly doubt they'll want more of them in frontline work there.
As has been stated many times - 7578/9/80 are only 'on loan' to Blyth for the duration of their repaint program and will return to Redcar in time for the start of the Summer 2026 season.
(16 Nov 2025, 11:49 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Blyth never use the E400's on a Sunday, I'll highly doubt they'll want more of them in frontline work there.
That's quite simply not true.
This Sunday just gone 7556 and 7558 were out. Sunday 2nd November 7504, 7507, 7522, and 7524 were used.
They may be used less than the DB300s, but that's likely because they have 16 E400s vs 31 DB300s - and 12/16 of those E400s are older than all of the DB300s so you'd assume they would use them more sparingly.
(16 Nov 2025, 8:14 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]You missed the really there, it's nowhere near the numbers of something like the 64 does, especially at Christmas time, which could leave the Arnison with a full load, then pick another massive load up at Durham, and pick another healthy load heading back to the Arnison if it's the case of the short runs in the time of a 308 board.
If it was as profitable as some people think it is, why would you give up the corridor to GoNorthEast and enter a partnership with a 25% frequency reduction at the same time? Not to mention the fares are nearly half the price (literally) of something like the X10/X11/X21/X22 which have similar loads.
The 64 runs every 15 minutes, the 308 runs as part of a group which have a combined frequency of every 5 minutes. I'd say there's far more demand along the Coast Road than between the Arnison Centre and Sherburn.
The 306/308 frequency drop was just after Covid from memory, when ridership was down? That they'd reduced the frequency and loads are now likely back up to pre-2020 levels likely means it's even more profitable than it was beforehand in reality. Similar money in, less money out. The loads I see leaving in the peak would certainly suggest the frequency could be increased and they'd still be carrying healthy numbers.
(17 Nov 2025, 7:09 pm)PH - BQA wrote [ -> ]That's quite simply not true.
This Sunday just gone 7556 and 7558 were out. Sunday 2nd November 7504, 7507, 7522, and 7524 were used.
They may be used less than the DB300s, but that's likely because they have 16 E400s vs 31 DB300s - and 12/16 of those E400s are older than all of the DB300s so you'd assume they would use them more sparingly.
The 64 runs every 15 minutes, the 308 runs as part of a group which have a combined frequency of every 5 minutes. I'd say there's far more demand along the Coast Road than between the Arnison Centre and Sherburn.
The 306/308 frequency drop was just after Covid from memory, when ridership was down? That they'd reduced the frequency and loads are now likely back up to pre-2020 levels likely means it's even more profitable than it was beforehand in reality. Similar money in, less money out. The loads I see leaving in the peak would certainly suggest the frequency could be increased and they'd still be carrying healthy numbers.
The frequency drop was part of the qualifying agreement as Arriva did initially keep the 15 minute frequency - interworking the 306/308 when Jesmond temporarily moved to Walkergate.
GNE didn't change the 309/310/311 (merging the 310/311 into the 307) until they were certain Arriva were happy to enter the agreement.
Whilst GNE did give a bit of trouble between March 2019 and Jan 2020 flexing their muscles with the ability to have the 309 sitting minutes ahead of the 308 in both directions - it wasn't very cost effective for GNE given the driving hour limitations owing to remote reliefs in New York.
Whist GNE have the same issues now - they pick a lot more up in Battle Hill with fewer buses and both the 307/309 get a hammering in High Farm - which makes the 308 more attractive now from the Coast.
I'd say the 306 is not as strong as it once was - although does carry healthy weekend loads on nice days to Tynemouth.
(17 Nov 2025, 7:09 pm)PH - BQA wrote [ -> ]The 64 runs every 15 minutes, the 308 runs as part of a group which have a combined frequency of every 5 minutes. I'd say there's far more demand along the Coast Road than between the Arnison Centre and Sherburn.
The 306/308 frequency drop was just after Covid from memory, when ridership was down? That they'd reduced the frequency and loads are now likely back up to pre-2020 levels likely means it's even more profitable than it was beforehand in reality. Similar money in, less money out. The loads I see leaving in the peak would certainly suggest the frequency could be increased and they'd still be carrying healthy numbers.
I don't think it's unprofitable let's make that clear, but just don't think they're the most profitable routes around.
If they were operated by one operator under normal fares then 100% they'd be up there but they're not.
In reality the fares are well below other routes and there's two operators with arguably way too many buses at the Western side carrying around pretty poor loadings really.
You need to carry awful lot more passengers in comparison to other similar routes to make the same revenue and they're very one directional aswell ie. in/out of Newcastle. Well the 306/308 at least anyway.
On the 64 I still think these are the hidden routes, just looking at departures between 4pm and 6pm which is arguably your core peak there's only 5 departures from Newcastle on the 308 (11 including the 306, for reference, but that's double the PVR), compared to 15 departures from Durham on the 64 (since it's on the middle and there's both way). The 64 might not be picking as many people up in Durham, but it doesn't need to since there's 3x the departures, not to mention the PVR is 1/2 buses less aswell which means there's less costs there aswell. Add a hospital, a college, 1 major retail destination and another quite big retail destination at the other side of town for passengers aswell.
It's why something like the 39/40 are miles above everything else. These combined have 36 departures from Newcastle instead and they'll be as busy as the 306/308. The profit on those must be insane compared to most other routes in the North East imo.
(18 Nov 2025, 12:33 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]I don't think it's unprofitable let's make that clear, but just don't think they're the most profitable routes around.
If they were operated by one operator under normal fares then 100% they'd be up there but they're not.
In reality the fares are well below other routes and there's two operators with arguably way too many buses at the Western side carrying around pretty poor loadings really.
You need to carry awful lot more passengers in comparison to other similar routes to make the same revenue and they're very one directional aswell ie. in/out of Newcastle. Well the 306/308 at least anyway.
On the 64 I still think these are the hidden routes, just looking at departures between 4pm and 6pm which is arguably your core peak there's only 5 departures from Newcastle on the 308, compared to 15 departures from Durham on the 64 (since it's on the middle and there's both way). The 64 might not be picking as many people up in Durham, but it doesn't need to since there's 3x the departures, not to mention the PVR is 1/2 buses less aswell which means there's less costs there aswell. Add a hospital, a college, 1 major retail destination and another quite big retail destination at the other side of town for passengers aswell.
It's why something like the 39/40 are miles above everything else. These combined have 36 departures from Newcastle instead and they'll be as busy as the 306/308 with a similar PVR aswell. The profit on those must be insane compared to most other routes in the North East imo.
Is the 39/40 now Stagecoach's national leader given the 192 in Manchester has been franchised?
(18 Nov 2025, 11:35 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Is the 39/40 now Stagecoach's national leader given the 192 in Manchester has been franchised?
Not too sure, wouldn't be surprised though - I can't think of anything off the top of my head which would beat it tbh.
(18 Nov 2025, 4:12 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Not too sure, wouldn't be surprised though - I can't think of anything off the top of my head which would beat it tbh.
I wouldn't be surprised either.
Maybe you're right about the 308 too.
Until 2019 when Martijn unleashed the reigns to try and shake the 'secondary image' off the 309 - GNE made money the following ways:
* Cobalt peak times - wouldn't be unusual to see fully loaded 309 & X39 deckers especially before Utilitywise collapsed
* High Farm on the 310
Everything else on both routes was a bonus. GNE weren't too bothered about making the 309 more attractive over the 308.
GNE did put a dent into the 308 in March 2019 - but wasn't sustainable long term as they couldn't maximise driving hours due to the remote reliefs. GNE eventually realised they could ditch the 57 and merge Hadrian Park (311) into the traditional Coast Road corridor.
This would've put Arriva at advantage with the 308 if covid didn't happen having the 15 minute service to Blyth & North Tyneside over GNE's 20 minute frequency.