North East Buses

Full Version: Branding - Stay or go?
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Here's a debate. Clearly arguments for and against both.

Should GNE retain branding as now? Or go down the following route:

- TyneTeesXpress (X10)
- XLines Generic - All applicable main 'X' routes
- GNE Electric (basically below but adapted for EV's)
- GNE Silver Service (but not called that) key 'Non X' routes
- GNE Corporate - For all other routes including secondary routes & minibus routes
(30 Mar 2022, 4:04 pm)L469 YVK Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a debate. Clearly arguments for and against both.

Should GNE retain branding as now? Or go down the following route:

- TyneTeesXpress (X10)
- XLines Generic - All applicable main 'X' routes
- GNE Electric (basically below but adapted for EV's)
- GNE Silver Service (but not called that) key 'Non X' routes
- GNE Corporate - For all other routes including secondary routes & minibus routes

Where are your arguments for and against both?
(30 Mar 2022, 4:04 pm)L469 YVK Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a debate. Clearly arguments for and against both.

Should GNE retain branding as now? Or go down the following route:

- TyneTeesXpress (X10)
- XLines Generic - All applicable main 'X' routes
- GNE Electric (basically below but adapted for EV's)
- GNE Silver Service (but not called that) key 'Non X' routes
- GNE Corporate - For all other routes including secondary routes & minibus routes
So Silver Service, 21/56/58/X6/78/. So really any branded route. 

No, cos that is boring.
Branding buses and route branded does not work as in a whole, GNE are losing or lost there mojo and image to the fare paying passenger, who or what is GNE these days, only a very small section of bus services should keep there brands only, the rest of the fleet should be in corporate livery.

Who can remember when printed timetables used to be just timetables and a fare table which is the only thing a passenger needed, now it’s like a tourist information map or a ordnance survey map which takes up a lot of space, does local councils have shares in bus companies or something.


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Rather see a generic livery across all operators in the North East under the following brands but I'll only do GNE routes.

Express - Fast routes connecting longer distance customers (X1, X6, X10, X20, X21, X30, X31 only)
Connect - Journeys connecting one or more towns with small communities in between (1, 2, 6, 9, 10, 309, 310, X5, X15, 21, 25, 56, X45, X46, 47, 60, 61, X70, X71, X72 and so on)
Local - Local journeys connecting one main town and small communities (5, 12, 39, 35, 51, 52, 55, 57, 58, 82, V1 and so on)
Electric - Different colour but still in their respective brand (53, 54)

Make the brands say on the tin what they actually do rather than some buses being XLines/MAX which aren't express and so on.

I'd also go further and brand each of the local with their respective name where it's based so SunderlandCity, Washington Locals, Consett Locals, North Tyneside Locals, NewcastleCity, Tynedale Locals and so on.
(30 Mar 2022, 4:55 pm)Storx Wrote: [ -> ]Rather see a generic livery across all operators in the North East under the following brands but I'll only do GNE routes.

Express - Fast routes connecting longer distance customers (X1, X6, X10, X20, X21, X30, X31 only)
Connect - Journeys connecting one or more towns with small communities in between (1, 2, 6, 9, 10, 309, 310, X5, X15, 21, 25, 56, X45, X46, 47, 60, 61, X70, X71, X72 and so on)
Local - Local journeys connecting one main town and small communities (5, 12, 39, 35, 51, 52, 55, 57, 58, 82, V1 and so on)
Electric - Different colour but still in their respective brand (53, 54)

Make the brands say on the tin what they actually do rather than some buses being XLines/MAX which aren't express and so on.

I'd also go further and brand each of the local with their respective name where it's based so SunderlandCity, Washington Locals, Consett Locals, North Tyneside Locals, NewcastleCity, Tynedale Locals and so on.


Can’t see a generic livery brand across all operators in the north east, it’s like saying a generic brand for all the supermarkets into one livery, the companies have to have there own identity (in which GNE lost there’s years ago )


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(30 Mar 2022, 4:55 pm)Storx Wrote: [ -> ]Rather see a generic livery across all operators in the North East under the following brands but I'll only do GNE routes.

Express - Fast routes connecting longer distance customers (X1, X6, X10, X20, X21, X30, X31 only)
Connect - Journeys connecting one or more towns with small communities in between (1, 2, 6, 9, 10, 309, 310, X5, X15, 21, 25, 56, X45, X46, 47, 60, 61, X70, X71, X72 and so on)
Local - Local journeys connecting one main town and small communities (5, 12, 39, 35, 51, 52, 55, 57, 58, 82, V1 and so on)
Electric - Different colour but still in their respective brand (53, 54)

Make the brands say on the tin what they actually do rather than some buses being XLines/MAX which aren't express and so on.

I'd also go further and brand each of the local with their respective name where it's based so SunderlandCity, Washington Locals, Consett Locals, North Tyneside Locals, NewcastleCity, Tynedale Locals and so on.
I would put the X45, X46 in the top bracket. 
But surely that defeats the point of XLines.
(30 Mar 2022, 5:36 pm)cbma06 Wrote: [ -> ]Can’t see a generic livery brand across all operators in the north east, it’s like saying a generic brand for all the supermarkets into one livery, the companies have to have there own identity (in which GNE lost there’s years ago )


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That’s exactly what was proposed under the (unfortunately) failed Quality Contracts(?) scheme some years back.

Now that Manchester is going down a London style scheme it’s starting to look a little more promising for other areas such as the North East.
(30 Mar 2022, 6:07 pm)ne14ne1 Wrote: [ -> ]That’s exactly what was proposed under the (unfortunately) failed Quality Contracts(?) scheme some years back.

Now that Manchester is going down a London style scheme it’s starting to look a little more promising for other areas such as the North East.


The north east won’t get the same as Manchester, as the councils up in the north east can’t decide on elect a mayor to be appointed which was one of the conditions from the government


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(30 Mar 2022, 5:36 pm)cbma06 Wrote: [ -> ]Can’t see a generic livery brand across all operators in the north east, it’s like saying a generic brand for all the supermarkets into one livery, the companies have to have there own identity (in which GNE lost there’s years ago )


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Yeah same sadly and tbh they'd probably all do better moneywise if they did aswell so people are confused as tbh no-one really cares if it's Stagecoach, GNE, Arriva, GCT and so on as long tickets worked across them all.

(30 Mar 2022, 5:38 pm)Unber43 Wrote: [ -> ]I would put the X45, X46 in the top bracket. 
But surely that defeats the point of XLines.

They're not express routes though so it just dilutes the point of an express service. My idea is based purely on the route type rather than putting letters on numbers and which ones you like more etc. Same applies with Arriva with the 306, 308, X7, X8 and X9 which aren't really express either.

The express network really is the
Arriva: 685, X10, X11, X12, X14, X15, X18, X20, X21, X22
GNE: X1, X6, X10, X20, X21, X30, X31, X66
SNE: 100, X24, X34, X63, X77, X78, X79, X82

I'm undecided on the SNE X47, X87, X88 as even known they're express they'd be better branded under the NewcastleCity brand imo.
(30 Mar 2022, 7:05 pm)Storx Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah same sadly and tbh they'd probably all do better moneywise if they did aswell so people are confused as tbh no-one really cares if it's Stagecoach, GNE, Arriva, GCT and so on as long tickets worked across them all.


They're not express routes though so it just dilutes the point of an express service. My idea is based purely on the route type rather than putting letters on numbers and which ones you like more etc. Same applies with Arriva with the 306, 308, X7, X8 and X9 which aren't really express either.

The express network really is the
Arriva: 685, X10, X11, X12, X14, X15, X18, X20, X21, X22 
GNE: X1, X6, X10, X20, X21, X30, X31, X66 
SNE: 100, X24, X34, X63, X77, X78, X79, X82

I'm undecided on the SNE X47, X87, X88 as even known they're express they'd be better branded under the NewcastleCity brand imo.
X45/X46, are express version of the slower version the 47.
(30 Mar 2022, 7:10 pm)Unber43 Wrote: [ -> ]X45/X46, are express version of the slower version the 47.

X45/46 replaced the 45/46 initially with the intention that the service would operate non-stop between Central Station and Metrocentre thus cutting one whole minute from the journey. 

During the pandemic both services started to, once again, serve all stops between Metrocentre and Central Station and continue to do so to this day. The X45/46 are certainly not express services and, as the current 47/47a did not continue to Consett until recently, you cannot argue that those services are the 'express' version of the 47/47a as the route of the X45/46 existed beforehand
(30 Mar 2022, 7:45 pm)MurdnunoC Wrote: [ -> ]X45/46 replaced the 45/46 initially with the intention that the service would operate non-stop between Central Station and Metrocentre thus cutting one whole minute from the journey. 

During the pandemic both services started to, once again, serve all stops between Metrocentre and Central Station and continue to do so to this day. The X45/46 are certainly not express services and, as the current 47/47a did not continue to Consett until recently, you cannot argue that those services are the 'express' version of the 47/47a as the route of the X45/46 existed beforehand
X45/46 do operate Non-Stop between Central Station and Metro.
Whenever I have been on it it has driven past people. I sometimes get off the 47 when I get on it at the Metrocentre if the X45/46 is behind and I normally pass the 47/ get into Eldon Square before it
For me i'd rather see local based branding come back such Northern, Wear Buses, Coastline, Sunderland & District, Gateshead & District etc as I still here the odd passenger use these names to identify Go North East as an operator as these are identities that up until 2006 were a major part of the companies historic branding image.

I think the only good branding we have had in recent years is the X-Lines the rest have been repetitive templated tosh which is easily identified and associated with other operators across the country who use the same designer for there respective operations, i'd like to see the North East brake that mold and go back to basics as I think while some of these brands do look smart, they are just amendments on what was initially introduced 16 years ago and for me branding has stood still in that time, the adage I can think of is the promotional aspect of promoting features the bus provides such as wifi/nsa and slogans for fare promotion, that's it and you can do that without the need of having these ridiculous brand names we have on some of our services.
(30 Mar 2022, 7:51 pm)Unber43 Wrote: [ -> ]X45/46 do operate Non-Stop between Central Station and Metro.
Whenever I have been on it it has driven past people. I sometimes get off the 47 when I get on it at the Metrocentre if the X45/46 is behind and I normally pass the 47/ get into Eldon Square before it

They don't.

They also stop at Kingfisher Court and on Team Street just before the traffic lights.
(30 Mar 2022, 8:24 pm)MurdnunoC Wrote: [ -> ]They don't.

They also stop at Kingfisher Court and on Team Street just before the traffic lights.
Well it may not be non-stop, but is like 14 less stops than the 47
(30 Mar 2022, 8:34 pm)Unber43 Wrote: [ -> ]Well it may not be non-stop, but is like 14 less stops than the 47

14 stops between Metrocentre and Central Station? There are only nine as far as I can see, and that's including Handy Drive. So that's only six stops less than the 47.

Handy Drive (X45/46)
St Omers Road
Kingfisher Court (X45/46)
Teemers Drive
Gas Works (X45/46)
Askew Road (Bottom)
Askew Road (Middle)
Askew Road (Top)
Redheugh Bridge
Keep the branding as it is useful

Many people and elderly with disabilities may not be able to read but recognise say a Quaylink bus they will associate that as the Yellow Bus

Or

Say Prince Bishops as the Purple Bus

It's like word association but brand association

Think the Cobalt route you want the silver and blue Bus

Yeah 95pc of buses are on branded routes but it does promote routes in other ways too

Who remembers seeing branded 685 branded service it can spark a debate to make a day out for people

Branding is useful

Think about if you see the Beamish advert Bus the association thinking I can get the bus to Beamish its a good thing branded buses as its self advertisement

You could be like Stagecoach who don't branded the buses ish

Look at X24 and X34 providing a visual advertisement when they were branded buses

You forget its enthuiasts on this page to the Joe public a bus is a bus and that is why branding and marketing is essential

If you work in Cobalt or Silverlink and see the branded bus going past you notice it and recognise it in other places and the colours associate where you have seen it so when in Cobalt people see the bus and read the side to associate where it goes

I say keep the branding and continue with it
(30 Mar 2022, 8:49 pm)MurdnunoC Wrote: [ -> ]14 stops between Metrocentre and Central Station? There are only nine as far as I can see, and that's including Handy Drive. So that's only six stops less than the 47.

Handy Drive (X45/46)
St Omers Road
Kingfisher Court (X45/46)
Teemers Drive
Gas Works (X45/46)
Askew Road (Bottom)
Askew Road (Middle)
Askew Road (Top)
Redheugh Bridge
Yeah sorry my mistake, I counted both wyas.
(30 Mar 2022, 7:10 pm)Unber43 Wrote: [ -> ]X45/X46, are express version of the slower version the 47.

As said later, there's barely any difference though.

Personally I'd just merge them all back as one and market it as 5 buses an hour between Rowlands Gill and Newcastle / Metro Centre rather than every 20 minutes and there's another 30 minute service aswell.

It's confusing having two similar routes for people not knowing where to go and you'll end up having people waiting longer than they need to, not to mention on a Sunday evening only the 47 runs to add even more confusion.
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