So we have a lot of posts on here, including many from me bemoaning GNEs performance and management. Some from current employees, others from observers and the rest extremely frustrated passengers.
So with limited resources, an apparent inability to recruit, how would you turn the tide or all least stem the blood loss.
This isn’t aimed as slanging match, I’d hope we get constructive ideas and not resort to individual attacks as such..football Manager 22…for buses sort of
I’ll go first with some basics and I’m sure I’ll build based on whatever gems you come up with.
Improve customer service away from buses. The current crisis has brought out the best in many drivers but the social media side is at an all time low. Then disconnect in tone between the marketing voice and the customer service voice is a chasm, have the customer service team had any training? It’s an easy in house fix.
Stabilise the network, let it breathe. Look towards Stagecoach for tickin along.
Implement immediate emergency timetables to give passengers confidence a bus will arrive.
Keep it simple, don’t over egg the marketing pudding. USBs are great but not a deciding factor for passengers. Lower fares, reliable routes are. Cut the bullshit essentially. You’re not Innocent Drinks or Greggs…you run a bus network.
Clear the decks. The current management and commercial team have presided over the failure over the recent past and pre covid. Whether it’s over promotion, a lack of at the coal face understanding, too many graduates in for lip service or just no fresh ideas, I just don’t have faith in the current line up or their senior leaders. It speaks volumes the new CEO isn’t an internal promotion and shows the total lack of faith in local level.
Take the blinkers off, mainly. The one thing they need is competition, which they don't have in many areas.
For me I feel like more research must be done especially in the Sunderland/Washington/Peterlee/Consett areas, no one wants to get on the 84, then X1. Obviously people need to change buses, but the X1 should be split into about 4-5 service and goes through all parts of washington while keeping it low.
Same with the 2/2/39/39A/39B, no one needs a bus every 7 mins from Sunderland to Hospital they should go into the estaes I wrote massive suggestion lists which would just improve the network imo it would add connections to areas in Sunderland / Washington / peterlee to Newcastle, Sunderland, Washington etc
(04 Aug 2022, 9:42 pm)F114TML wrote [ -> ]Take the blinkers off, mainly. The one thing they need is competition, which they don't have in many areas.
Pretty sure GNE don't care about losing areas. I just can't wait 20 year a Angel 21 hourly between CLS-Newcastle
Get everything into fleet livery, keep the Xlines brand but do it properly, actual decent fast services. Promote good fairs, better links and integration and don’t be silly with the constant timetable changes, the lack of stability in the network over the last 10 years has to have an effect on passenger numbers
I learnt to drive because of GNE changes initially!
(04 Aug 2022, 9:42 pm)F114TML wrote [ -> ]Take the blinkers off, mainly. The one thing they need is competition, which they don't have in many areas.
So wrong imo.
We need the complete opposite, you should be able to buy a ticket which enables you to get any bus, any local train and any Metro, in zones similar to Arriva's Triple Tickets and/or GNE Buzzfare without it costing an absolute fortune like Network One does, especially outside of T&W.
Who runs the bus should be irrelevant.
This forum is completely riddled by it but it should be Public Transport (of any kind) with walking and cycling facilities vs Car not GNE vs Arriva vs Stagecoach vs Metro vs Train vs Cycling vs Walking vs Car.
The car will always win in the second scenario.
(04 Aug 2022, 9:44 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]Pretty sure GNE don't care about losing areas. I just can't wait 20 year a Angel 21 hourly between CLS-Newcastle
https://twitter.com/Camwoj145/status/155...8235490304
Worst part is I'm not even joking. They're more expensive but if Stagecoach started running into Murton, I'd switch in a heartbeat because you can actually rely on the bus turning up.
(04 Aug 2022, 9:51 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]So wrong imo.
We need the complete opposite, you should be able to buy a ticket which enables you to get any bus, any local train and any Metro, in zones similar to Arriva's Triple Tickets and/or GNE Buzzfare without it costing an absolute fortune like Network One does, especially outside of T&W.
Who runs the bus should be irrelevant.
This forum is completely riddled by it but it should be Public Transport (of any kind) with walking and cycling facilities vs Car not GNE vs Arriva vs Stagecoach vs Metro vs Train vs Cycling vs Walking vs Car.
The car will always win in the second scenario.
Yep the main issue is not being able to use multi-operator tickets without it costing an absolute fortune especially if you're with 3+ people. However I feel like people get Standards for buses, for instance if I go on GNE I except USB's where buses should have USB's working plug sockets, wifi etc, however If I get on SC I just expect the bus to turn up, and even GNE atm I would much rather have GNE running my service than Arriva or SC.
First off offer improve offers and listen to the drivers see what they want and see if a compromise can be reached.
Scrap the branding it might have worked in 2006 but it gone to far now. Pick a livery and put all the buses in it that way it might help stabilise the network and buses can be moved between depots without more repaints first.
Be honest with the public. If they is problems don’t start long distance express services only to then scrap them when people will actually be wanting to use it. Go to emergency timetables if things are so bad and make it clear it due to driver shortages. In the meantime see if drivers can be loaned from elsewhere.
Stop messing about with services and give them a chance to work by promoting them. Don’t start a service then end it a few month later.
(04 Aug 2022, 9:51 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]So wrong imo.
We need the complete opposite, you should be able to buy a ticket which enables you to get any bus, any local train and any Metro, in zones similar to Arriva's Triple Tickets and/or GNE Buzzfare without it costing an absolute fortune like Network One does, especially outside of T&W.
Who runs the bus should be irrelevant.
This forum is completely riddled by it but it should be Public Transport (of any kind) with walking and cycling facilities vs Car not GNE vs Arriva vs Stagecoach vs Metro vs Train vs Cycling vs Walking vs Car.
The car will always win in the second scenario.
What I mean is someone coming along and bringing new ideas to the table. Rather than a route along Dalton Park > Sunderland corridor; maybe they go Seaham > Doxford > Hospital > Sunderland. It'd give gne a bit of a kick up the backside hopefully. Anyway, most people I see using buses are using singles and returns.
(04 Aug 2022, 9:54 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]Yep the main issue is not being able to use multi-operator tickets without it costing an absolute fortune especially if you're with 3+ people. However I feel like people get Standards for buses, for instance if I go on GNE I except USB's where buses should have USB's working plug sockets, wifi etc, however If I get on SC I just expect the bus to turn up, and even GNE atm I would much rather have GNE running my service than Arriva or SC.
Fair point that tbf, see I'd love all the big 3 to come up together and come up with some form of minimum standard that all refits are standard going forward so you don't have the issue with that.
Mind I believe they're all NSA / USB / Wifi (Not Stagecoach) now if I'm right now anyway.
I'd love to see something like iBus developed up here for the NSA's though so it's consistent across all 3 and the Metro aswell (as their system is a heap of junk) so there's consistency with every single bus route rather than the numerous variations floating around which doesn't help people.
(04 Aug 2022, 10:11 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Fair point that tbf, see I'd love all the big 3 to come up together and come up with some form of minimum standard that all refits are standard going forward so you don't have the issue with that.
Mind I believe they're all NSA / USB / Wifi (Not Stagecoach) now if I'm right now anyway.
I'd love to see something like iBus developed up here for the NSA's though so it's consistent across all 3 and the Metro aswell (as their system is a heap of junk) so there's consistency with every single bus route rather than the numerous variations floating around which doesn't help people.
For buses I think the Green Arrows, Xlines buses are what minimum standards should be. While Tables/USB/Wirless Chargers are seens as things not needed I think they're, and I like what GNE is doing replicating what a car has, I can go out in the car, i will have a comfy seat, place to charge my phone and use it if Im not driving, and I do like on the buses with tables if you are going out with your friends and you can all sit together I think its nice, but with tables I do hate when one person sits at a table.
(04 Aug 2022, 10:01 pm)F114TML wrote [ -> ]What I mean is someone coming along and bringing new ideas to the table. Rather than a route along Dalton Park > Sunderland corridor; maybe they go Seaham > Doxford > Hospital > Sunderland. It'd give gne a bit of a kick up the backside hopefully. Anyway, most people I see using buses are using singles and returns.
I know what your saying tbf, but it just causes prices wars and it turns a mess.
Mind for that I wish we had something like Oyster developed, where you can just tap in and out across everything (not just Quaylink and Voltra) and it just calculates everything. Would make it so much easier for people who don't use public transport.
Talking of the thread ticketing needs sorting out as it's still a mess (just not as bad as it way); singles, returns, local day tickets, little bit bigger local day tickets, bigger zone day tickets, network one, no doubt missed stuff there. Confusing as hell.
(04 Aug 2022, 10:13 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]For buses I think the Green Arrows, Xlines buses are what minimum standards should be. While Tables/USB/Wirless Chargers are seens as things not needed I think they're, and I like what GNE is doing replicating what a car has, I can go out in the car, i will have a comfy seat, place to charge my phone and use it if Im not driving, and I do like on the buses with tables if you are going out with your friends and you can all sit together I think its nice, but with tables I do hate when one person sits at a table.
Can't really argue with that if I had to be honest; tables meh maybe on some routes.
I do believe the new Arriva buses are pretty much the same spec as the Green Arrows though omitting tables and head rests (let's not start that again).
(04 Aug 2022, 10:16 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Talking of the thread ticketing needs sorting out as it's still a mess (just not as bad as it way); singles, returns, local day tickets, little bit bigger local day tickets, bigger zone day tickets, network one, no doubt missed stuff there. Confusing as hell.
I think GNE ticketing is good, Singles, Returns, Local Tickets, Bigger Area ticket, zone day/week etc tickets, thats not confusing if anything I think its very accommodating to people however one thing I would suggest is being able to maybe if you buy a 2 zone ticket yearly that for a day/week/month you can pay a bit extra to get it to three zones, same for weekly ticket etc in certain areas obviously this would be app only.
Wonder if GNE commercial team thought of that?
Go North East is simply too big to manage centrally as one company.
Split it up in to Go Wear (Sunderland, Washington), Go Northern (Consett, Hexham), Go Tyneside (Riverside, Percy Main)
Employ General Managers with full budget responsibility for the groups of depots assigned with them directly reporting to directors.
Carry out a route and branch review of how current members of the middle management team have performed.
Have meaningful regular dialogue with drivers. Be that a canteen session at lunchtime or a "you said, we did" for a newsletter. Even the smallest quick win shows that things are different.
In terms of service provision, I'd carry out a full audit of all services. profit and loss, route costing for each part of each route to see where there could be growth and where is completely dead.
Once a review of the current netowrk had been done I'd task somebody to Identify high employment areas and areas with high deprivation which are relatively undeserved (Hello Murton) and come up with realisitic proposals for better serving them within a budget to be defined after the network review.
Expand the commercial team. Give them the time to make informed decisions. Not seemingly going from one fire to the next at the whim of the senior management team, as seems to be the case.
Reduce the number of service changes, so that drivers aren't having shifts changed every few weeks and so that service changes can be properly thought out. Some might say that is scheduling to suit the company. Well, without drivers you don't have a bus service. Chopping and changing shifts every few weeks 100% contributes to drivers leaving.
Shifts should only fundamentally change when the schools are out and on predefined service change dates.
Expand customer service hours back to pre covid levels, with a basic 9 to 5 weekend service and a 7 til 7 weekday service. They are effectively a customer retention team, so give them time to retain customers when things go wrong.
Get rid of all route branding. Return to area based liveries.
Look to expand Tap on Tap Off as soon as possible.
Get rid of all cash fares and introduce a 7 day cap with no geographical boundary. With Tap in tap out, nobody is going to notice the price unless they forensically look at a bank statement. Instantly removes the plethora of tickets.
So heres what I think...
You need a clear strategy with a good marketing campaign and a unique selling point.
Independent Example:
Strategy: To Introduce New Service 80 (Posted in Suggestions Thread).
Marketing: Post Flyers to Residents/Businesses on Route, Advertise on Social Media.
Resources: 4x Streelite WF (Converted to EV), 4-5 Drivers, 2-3 Admin Staff, Washington Based Outstation.
USP: Fully Electric Bus Fleet.
Other: Simple Branding, Minimal Service Alterations & On Board Features (Wi-Fi, NSA, USB, Wireless Changing).
(04 Aug 2022, 10:01 pm)F114TML wrote [ -> ]What I mean is someone coming along and bringing new ideas to the table. Rather than a route along Dalton Park > Sunderland corridor; maybe they go Seaham > Doxford > Hospital > Sunderland. It'd give gne a bit of a kick up the backside hopefully. Anyway, most people I see using buses are using singles and returns.
Seaham to Sunderland via Doxford and the Hospital? Not via direct if you live in Seaham. It’s set up
to fail straightaway. I can run (as I do) direct via Coast Rd / Ryhope road faster than the bus meanders around Sunderland.
(04 Aug 2022, 10:01 pm)F114TML wrote [ -> ]What I mean is someone coming along and bringing new ideas to the table. Rather than a route along Dalton Park > Sunderland corridor; maybe they go Seaham > Doxford > Hospital > Sunderland. It'd give gne a bit of a kick up the backside hopefully. Anyway, most people I see using buses are using singles and returns.
(04 Aug 2022, 11:57 pm)Economic505 wrote [ -> ]Seaham to Sunderland via Doxford and the Hospital? Not via direct if you live in Seaham. It’s set up
to fail straightaway. I can run (as I do) direct via Coast Rd / Ryhope road faster than the bus meanders around Sunderland.
But I do feel like there hast to be a link from Murton, Seaham, Doxford Park, A690 (while going into areas).
I think GNE especially in Sunderland should add services which stop in places such as South Hylton, Thorney, hasting I feel like that is something they can do to expand,
(04 Aug 2022, 10:13 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]For buses I think the Green Arrows, Xlines buses are what minimum standards should be. While Tables/USB/Wirless Chargers are seens as things not needed I think they're, and I like what GNE is doing replicating what a car has, I can go out in the car, i will have a comfy seat, place to charge my phone and use it if Im not driving, and I do like on the buses with tables if you are going out with your friends and you can all sit together I think its nice, but with tables I do hate when one person sits at a table.
See I think this is where it goes wrong. These things are lovely and I am sure some people notice/care (and I'd wager a lot more don't) however they come at a premium. We have services that apparently make too little money to turn a profit yet the company tries to match "luxury" standards, and turn a profit, and try not to discourage people with higher fares, so can't afford decent wages/conditions, so can't recruit/retain staff, so fundamentally fail as a reliable operator. It isn't rocket science. The more money spent on the deluxe options on the vehicle, or the umpteenth paint job, increases the costs to run the service and reduces ability to respond to challenges (whether fare offers, wage bills etc).
Trying to promote the standard A to B service bus as being "as posh as your car" is nonsense - you can have the poshest of seats and mood lighting and broken USB chargers... but if a load of chavs get on and make the journey miserable, or the bus is rammed because they want them full to the rafters to maximise profit to pay for said luxuries, or if you've visibly aged waiting for the bus to even turn up as they are now so infrequent and unreliable...this "car replica" suddenly isn't so convincing.
I'm hopeful we will see a clear change in direction from the new MD (with a hopefully new back office team, getting rid of the rot that have presided over the ever spiralling decline of the company and importantly it's reputation in the local communities over the last 12-18 months). The model MG has pursued of throwing money, paint and ridiculously OTT marketing (overpromising and woefully under delivering - #betterthannever #gamechanging #fitforthefuture - ok the last one may not have been a #) very clearly doesn't work given services being slashed include those which are/were "posh". I think this is where the likes of Stagecoach get it right in terms of a pretty basic offering, which - at least outside looking in over the last however many decades - delivers a much more stable network, presumably at least partly becuase they ensure their expenditure doesnt outstrip what they can hope to bring in through revenue, so they don't have to cut and rejig services every few months. To be fair to the current team, the latter point on instability of the network has been a feature of Northern for decades though and does appear to be a deliberate strategy - if such a thing is possible!?
(05 Aug 2022, 12:17 am)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]But I do feel like there hast to be a link from Murton, Seaham, Doxford Park, A690 (while going into areas).
I think GNE especially in Sunderland should add services which stop in places such as South Hylton, Thorney, hasting I feel like that is something they can do to expand,
There's been a lot of talk of it before and this is not just GNE, but isnt the issue here that all of the traditional local mini/midi services were withdrawn in favour of turn up and go (now turn up and we might too eventually) high frequency routs for the convenience of marketing rather than customers? So now, the services that would have run direct along trunk routes are having to divert into places to maintain "a service" (which may or may not go somewhere useful for that particular community, but that's not important, box ticked that there is " a service").
I'd encourage them to engage Clifton Hignett III in some commercial capacity. There's a man who seems to know the score.
(04 Aug 2022, 10:20 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]Go North East is simply too big to manage centrally as one company.
Split it up in to Go Wear (Sunderland, Washington), Go Northern (Consett, Hexham), Go Tyneside (Riverside, Percy Main)
Employ General Managers with full budget responsibility for the groups of depots assigned with them directly reporting to directors.
Carry out a route and branch review of how current members of the middle management team have performed.
Have meaningful regular dialogue with drivers. Be that a canteen session at lunchtime or a "you said, we did" for a newsletter. Even the smallest quick win shows that things are different.
In terms of service provision, I'd carry out a full audit of all services. profit and loss, route costing for each part of each route to see where there could be growth and where is completely dead.
Once a review of the current netowrk had been done I'd task somebody to Identify high employment areas and areas with high deprivation which are relatively undeserved (Hello Murton) and come up with realisitic proposals for better serving them within a budget to be defined after the network review.
Expand the commercial team. Give them the time to make informed decisions. Not seemingly going from one fire to the next at the whim of the senior management team, as seems to be the case.
Reduce the number of service changes, so that drivers aren't having shifts changed every few weeks and so that service changes can be properly thought out. Some might say that is scheduling to suit the company. Well, without drivers you don't have a bus service. Chopping and changing shifts every few weeks 100% contributes to drivers leaving.
Shifts should only fundamentally change when the schools are out and on predefined service change dates.
Expand customer service hours back to pre covid levels, with a basic 9 to 5 weekend service and a 7 til 7 weekday service. They are effectively a customer retention team, so give them time to retain customers when things go wrong.
Get rid of all route branding. Return to area based liveries.
Look to expand Tap on Tap Off as soon as possible.
Get rid of all cash fares and introduce a 7 day cap with no geographical boundary. With Tap in tap out, nobody is going to notice the price unless they forensically look at a bank statement. Instantly removes the plethora of tickets.
Is that really the best idea with the COL situation? What about older people who might still rely on cash? Children who get pocket money? I know it works in places like London but they also have an intergrated transport and smartcard system. We on the other hand do not.