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+--- Thread: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes (/showthread.php?tid=1032)
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RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - markydh - 09 Feb 2017
No is the short answer to that one. Not a single change could be deemed as positive. The peripheral routes are having a sythe taken to them and the truck routes are seeing reductions or nonsensical route changes. M
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - HarryCowans4041 - 09 Feb 2017
(09 Feb 2017, 8:10 pm)Michael Had a proper look through the changes and i don't really know Newcastle so that's why i'm not giving feedback.
Is there any positive proposed changes?
These changes when you look closely are actually incredible in terms of the scale of the cuts. Here is my very rough calculation of PVRs before and after the changes. To describe this as a major cull would be an understatement.
Service 1: 15 to 14
Service 6/7/8: 9 to 8 (despite the extension)
Service 15: 4 to 2
Service 18: 4 to 3
Service 32: 7 to 4
Service 39/40: 11 to 10
Service 62/63: No change or possibly minus 1
Service 71: 3 to 3 (n/c)
Service 72: 2 to 1
Service 87: 1 to 1 (n/c)
Service 88: 1 to 0
Service 100: 4 to 3
Service X47: 5 to 3
Service X82: 3 to 2
So looks like at the very least, minus 15 PVR - making Sunderland's recent cuts seem like a drop in the ocean.
Some of the above make sense - for example the 1 between Coach Lane and FLE is not well used, and the eastern section of the 32 tends to be less well used than the western section. Nevertheless, regulars on the X47/X82 and 71/72/87/88 will notice the difference. Quite staggering that Benton Park Road between South Gosforth and FLE (past DWP Benton Park View) will be unserved by any Stagecoach service. At one time in the early 1990s this section had 2bph on the 7, 2bph on the 16 and 6bph on the 38.
If Stagecoach are determined to make such a radical cull, I would suggest that putting it out to public consultation will have very little effect on the eventual outcome.
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - Michael - 09 Feb 2017
(09 Feb 2017, 8:50 pm)markydh No is the short answer to that one. Not a single change could be deemed as positive. The peripheral routes are having a sythe taken to them and the truck routes are seeing reductions or nonsensical route changes. M
, not good then.Hopefully they all don't go ahead but that seems unlikely because all of the Sunderland ones went ahead.
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - Andreos1 - 09 Feb 2017
(09 Feb 2017, 8:57 pm)HarryCowans4041 These changes when you look closely are actually incredible in terms of the scale of the cuts. Here is my very rough calculation of PVRs before and after the changes. To describe this as a major cull would be an understatement.
Service 1: 15 to 14
Service 6/7/8: 9 to 8 (despite the extension)
Service 15: 4 to 2
Service 18: 4 to 3
Service 32: 7 to 4
Service 39/40: 11 to 10
Service 62/63: No change or possibly minus 1
Service 71: 3 to 3 (n/c)
Service 72: 2 to 1
Service 87: 1 to 1 (n/c)
Service 88: 1 to 0
Service 100: 4 to 3
Service X47: 5 to 3
Service X82: 3 to 2
So looks like at the very least, minus 15 PVR - making Sunderland's recent cuts seem like a drop in the ocean.
Some of the above make sense - for example the 1 between Coach Lane and FLE is not well used, and the eastern section of the 32 tends to be less well used than the western section. Nevertheless, regulars on the X47/X82 and 71/72/87/88 will notice the difference. Quite staggering that Benton Park Road between South Gosforth and FLE (past DWP Benton Park View) will be unserved by any Stagecoach service. At one time in the early 1990s this section had 2bph on the 7, 2bph on the 16 and 6bph on the 38.
If Stagecoach are determined to make such a radical cull, I would suggest that putting it out to public consultation will have very little effect on the eventual outcome.
I can't remember the depot allocation for these routes off the top of my head.
What is the depot split like? Is one losing more than the other?
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - HarryCowans4041 - 09 Feb 2017
(09 Feb 2017, 9:09 pm)Andreos1 I can't remember the depot allocation for these routes off the top of my head.
What is the depot split like? Is one losing more than the other?
I don't have the exact figures either but my rough calculation based on my earlier figures are Slatyford minus 10 and Walkergate minus 5.
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - Kuyoyo - 09 Feb 2017
(09 Feb 2017, 9:09 pm)Andreos1 I can't remember the depot allocation for these routes off the top of my head.
What is the depot split like? Is one losing more than the other?
1/15/15A/18/39/40 are solely operated by Walkergate
6/7/8/32/32A/35/71/72/87/88/100/X47/X82/X87/X88 are solely operated by Slatyford.
62/63 are jointly operated by both depots with Walkergate having 7 workings and Slatyford the remaining 14.
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - LVK 404L - 09 Feb 2017
Guessing South Shields will be next in pipeline where there has been no real major changes to local service since the late 80s.
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - Ds1197 - 09 Feb 2017
(09 Feb 2017, 9:48 pm)ifm001 Guessing South Shields will be next in pipeline where there has been no real major changes to local service since the late 80s.
I can't really see what they could do to change the South Shields network.
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - tyresmoke - 09 Feb 2017
I reckon the Teesside / Hartlepool area will be next in the firing line. Seems to be a current trend across the Stagecoach network nationwide though
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - citaro5284 - 09 Feb 2017
(09 Feb 2017, 10:19 pm)Ds1197 I can't really see what they could do to change the South Shields network.
People were saying that about the Newcastle network
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - Mark1 - 09 Feb 2017
(09 Feb 2017, 10:19 pm)Ds1197 I can't really see what they could do to change the South Shields network.
I wouldn't be surprised if the recent changes to the 10/11 become permanent with Hill Park and Low Simonside only getting an hourly service
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - Ds1197 - 09 Feb 2017
(09 Feb 2017, 10:26 pm)Mark1 I wouldn't be surprised if the recent changes to the 10/11 become permanent with Hill Park and Low Simonside only getting an hourly service
The 17/18 might go down to every 12 or every 15 minutes
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - LVK 404L - 09 Feb 2017
(09 Feb 2017, 10:19 pm)Ds1197 I can't really see what they could do to change the South Shields network.
Most local services operate a 10 min frequency. That could easily change to 12 min frequency. T
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - Ambassador - 09 Feb 2017
The changes aren't a huge surprise. Newcastle has a fairly untouched and unchanged stale network in Stagecoach terms.
It's never really had a full change since the Busways takeover. A few cosmetic snips here and there.
The likes of the 22 and X63 being left alone probably says more for commercial partnership with Cobalt and Quorum more than anything.
The huge issue is the traffic around Newcastle that barring huge investment in infrastructure you aren't going to solve, Newcastle is a growing big city and it's beginning to show as commuters move out towards subabrbs to live and work in but still commute through the city centre. Sunderland just doesn't compare
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - markydh - 09 Feb 2017
(09 Feb 2017, 8:59 pm)Michael
Hopefully they all don't go ahead but that seems unlikely because all of the Sunderland ones went ahead.
The one proposal that may get binned is the plan to reroute the 63 via Cowgate. The wording in the consultation suggests even Stagecoach aren't totally sure about that one. We'll see. I've already spoken to a couple of councillors who are flabbergasted. Buses Bill can't come soon enough!
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - Ambassador - 09 Feb 2017
(09 Feb 2017, 11:49 pm)markydh The one proposal that may get binned is the plan to reroute the 63 via Cowgate. The wording in the consultation suggests even Stagecoach aren't totally sure about that one. We'll see. I've already spoken to a couple of councillors who are flabbergasted. Buses Bill can't come soon enough!
Councillors are professional flabbergasters to be fair
I honestly don't think the changes are all that out there. It's obvious the network has been left because it's the same revenue generating shell network that Busways and the PTE set up. Fast forward 20 odd years and it needs reviewing. More hub and spoke than direct link (GNE did this years ago and continue to do it. At least stagecoahchave far cheaper day tickets!)
The 62/63 chanages are a big big change but there's going to be alternatives, it's not like they are abandoning Fenham Hall Drive.
Buses bill isn't going to do anything differently aside massively increase pressure on taxpayers to continue funding unsustainable routes.
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - markydh - 10 Feb 2017
The reason the 63 is a strange one is because they are giving Fenham no direct link to the city centre. There are several schools and a uni hall of residence. The 63 is always packed at peak times and many do use it as a through service. It isn't saving any buses by rerouting so it's strange. Not only are they leaving parts of Fenham with no (fast) route to the centre, they are leaving Cowgate with no link to the station! There's no logic to it, really. These are the first major changes proposed since 2003. Incidentally, there's a difference between interregional hub and spoke of GNE and trying that concept within a relatively small city. We shall see what happens.
Oh, as a taxpayer and a bus user, I am more than happy to 'subsidise' routes that my council has full control over but that is a debate for the other thread ;-)
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - Michael - 10 Feb 2017
(09 Feb 2017, 11:36 pm)Ambassador The changes aren't a huge surprise. Newcastle has a fairly untouched and unchanged stale network in Stagecoach terms.
It's never really had a full change since the Busways takeover. A few cosmetic snips here and there.
The likes of the 22 and X63 being left alone probably says more for commercial partnership with Cobalt and Quorum more than anything.
The huge issue is the traffic around Newcastle that barring huge investment in infrastructure you aren't going to solve, Newcastle is a growing big city and it's beginning to show as commuters move out towards subabrbs to live and work in but still commute through the city centre. Sunderland just doesn't compare
It doesn't, Newcastle is the bigger city, so needs more services etc, Sunderland doesn't need 15+ services, where Newcastle does.
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - Dans_bus_photos - 10 Feb 2017
(10 Feb 2017, 12:14 am)markydh The reason the 63 is a strange one is because they are giving Fenham no direct link to the city centre. There are several schools and a uni hall of residence. The 63 is always packed at peak times and many do use it as a through service. It isn't saving any buses by rerouting so it's strange. Not only are they leaving parts of Fenham with no (fast) route to the centre, they are leaving Cowgate with no link to the station! There's no logic to it, really. These are the first major changes proposed since 2003. Incidentally, there's a difference between interregional hub and spoke of GNE and trying that concept within a relatively small city. We shall see what happens.
Oh, as a taxpayer and a bus user, I am more than happy to 'subsidise' routes that my council has full control over but that is a debate for the other thread ;-)
Isnt the 71/72/87 going to be re-routed through Fenham the same way the 63 currently goes on a combined 15 minute frequency?
RE: Stagecoach North East: Upcoming Service Changes - markydh - 10 Feb 2017
And then run the loop via Westgate Road, first, thereby increasing journey times to the city centre by at least 10 minutes. That's the issue. I don't see what is gained by swapping these services with the 63. I use the 62/63 services daily and it's the 62 that always runs late in the west of the city so the reasoning in 'speeding up' the 63 doesn't make sense on those grounds. I've fed this back, though.