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+--- Thread: Stagecoach North East: Latest News & Discussion - February 2014 (/showthread.php?tid=1353)
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Michael - 17 Feb 2014
(17 Feb 2014, 1:32 pm)Dan I think it's roughly £185k - £200k per vehicle - depending on how many vehicles are being ordered at that time, any extras being fitted (Wi-Fi etc)...
So the GNE equivalent would be between a Euro 5 standard Merc to a Euro 5 B9TL with power sockets etc fitted (inc. VAT).
That's quite lot for a bus - like you said, if your order a certain amount you might get a little discount
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Chris - 17 Feb 2014
I think it's previously been commented that Stagecoach enjoy healthy discounts from ADL for their producs. In theory, as the technology evolves and units are produced in quantity, the cost should come down.
I'm sure I read somewhere that for all the Scania engine in these was designed specifically as a gas engine (as opposed to a converted diesel engine), over the whole bus there are only something like 40 unique parts that you wouldn't find on a conventinoal E300.
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Andreos1 - 17 Feb 2014
(17 Feb 2014, 2:29 pm)ADLEnviro When Sir Brian invested in ADL it was to keep the plant open and guarantee healthy orders from the group, as with all operators a discount is offered for volume but with Stagecoach this isn't really a discount, its more of a loyalty thing were vehicles are offered at a cost price plus a percentage for future development to keep ADL in a healthy position. This equates to just over £156,000 for the current Gas buses entering the fleet.
So its win win as far as the gas buses go.
Stagecoach get Government money to purchase them, but purchase them from the manufacturer that their owner has a massive stake in.
Stagecoach get new buses for nowt, ADL get guaranteed orders and Souter gets a return twice - once from both investments!
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Dan - 17 Feb 2014
(17 Feb 2014, 2:29 pm)ADLEnviro When Sir Brian invested in ADL it was to keep the plant open and guarantee healthy orders from the group, as with all operators a discount is offered for volume but with Stagecoach this isn't really a discount, its more of a loyalty thing were vehicles are offered at a cost price plus a percentage for future development to keep ADL in a healthy position. This equates to just over £156,000 for the current Gas buses entering the fleet.
Crikey! I knew Stagecoach got a discount (or the loyalty alternative, as you put it) on what they would usually cost, but I definitely didn't imagine it would be such a heavy reduction in cost.
Re: RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Adrian - 17 Feb 2014
(17 Feb 2014, 1:32 pm)Dan I think it's roughly £185k - £200k per vehicle - depending on how many vehicles are being ordered at that time, any extras being fitted (Wi-Fi etc)...
So the GNE equivalent would be between a Euro 5 standard Merc to a Euro 5 B9TL with power sockets etc fitted (inc. VAT).
Although you'd expect the ongoing operating costs to be significantly lower than that of a Euro 5 Citaro? I'd suggest that would certainly influence any business case to spend more on this vehicle type.
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Dan - 17 Feb 2014
(17 Feb 2014, 2:55 pm)aureolin Although you'd expect the ongoing operating costs to be significantly lower than that of a Euro 5 Citaro? I'd suggest that would certainly influence any business case to spend more on this vehicle type.
Even more so when you look at the figure quoted above. I believe Reading had to pay around £185k per vehicle though.
Only difference to look at is the ride quality - which is better for passengers? The gas bus may be quiet now, but how many rattles will develop 5 years down the line?
Also the cost of the infrastructure etc for first time buyers.
The cost of both will increase now what with Euro 6 legislations and all.
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - ... - 17 Feb 2014
Sunderland MANs 22666 and 22735 have both just had full size rear adverts applied- havent managed to see what there advertising yet though.
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Michael - 17 Feb 2014
Temporary eastbound closure of Durham Road (at Ettrick Grove), affecting Services 3, 4 and 23 Service Update
During Sunday 2 March 2014, Sunderland City Council will need to temporarily close the eastbound carriageway of Durham Road (at Ettrick Grove) to allow for roadworks.
Last Updated : 17 February 2014 17:1
It is anticipated the road closure will be in place between approximately 0800 - 1800 on Sunday 2 March 2014, during which period buses will not be able to serve their normal eastbound stops along this section of Durham Road (including those at the Prospect).
Service 3 will also be unable to observe its bus stops along Premier Road, west of Pearl Road.
During the works period, eastbound Services 3, 4 and 23 will be diverted via Premier Road and Silksworth Lane, observing all bus stops along the line of the diversionary route.
Westbound journeys on Services 3, 4 and 23 should be unaffected by these works.
Clearly, whilst we will be endeavouring to operate these services in accordance with their published timetables, as well as continuing to liaise with our colleagues at Sunderland City Council to mitigate any problems, due to the additional mileage which is required by this diversion there is the potential that bus services in the area may be subject to delays and disruption.
Stagecoach would like to apologise for any inconvenience these highways works by Sunderland City Council may cause, and we remain grateful for customers’ patience and understanding.
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Adrian - 17 Feb 2014
(17 Feb 2014, 2:58 pm)Dan Even more so when you look at the figure quoted above. I believe Reading had to pay around £185k per vehicle though.
Only difference to look at is the ride quality - which is better for passengers? The gas bus may be quiet now, but how many rattles will develop 5 years down the line?
Also the cost of the infrastructure etc for first time buyers.
The cost of both will increase now what with Euro 6 legislations and all.
The Citaro is going to win hands down on ride quality any day of the week, purely for the fact it's a Mercedes. To the average customer though? I don't think many would say the 300NGs are of a poor ride quality. I was really impressed with them myself. I do think it'll be interesting 5 years down the line, as the Mercedes quality really stands out here. The first GNE batch of Citaros (5275 for example) are still as good as they were on day 1 in service. Of course that proven track record isn't there with the 300NGs yet.
I found an interesting presentation based on Coca Cola using Biomethane vs Diesel as a trial. It was the best comparison I could find on fuel costings too. Here if anyone wants a look.
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Michael - 17 Feb 2014
(17 Feb 2014, 6:45 pm)aureolin The Citaro is going to win hands down on ride quality any day of the week, purely for the fact it's a Mercedes. To the average customer though? I don't think many would say the 300NGs are of a poor ride quality. I was really impressed with them myself. I do think it'll be interesting 5 years down the line, as the Mercedes quality really stands out here. The first GNE batch of Citaros (5275 for example) are still as good as they were on day 1 in service. Of course that proven track record isn't there with the 300NGs yet.
I found an interesting presentation based on Coca Cola using Biomethane vs Diesel as a trial. It was the best comparison I could find on fuel costings too. Here if anyone wants a look.
To this day, the Citaro is one of my favorite buses, i also agree with them being as good as they were when they first got them.
Of course how long can the Gas buses last?
Will Stagecoach make that risk and make Sunderland depot 100% Gas bus?
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Andreos1 - 17 Feb 2014
(17 Feb 2014, 6:51 pm)Michael To this day, the Citaro is one of my favorite buses, i also agree with them being as good as they were when they first got them.
Of course how long can the Gas buses last?
Will Stagecoach make that risk and make Sunderland depot 100% Gas bus?
The gas buses are using fairly new technology compared to the Citaro.
Stagecoach have got to err on the side of caution, but take into account any risks with reliability versus the investment made with fueling facilities.
You then have potential issues when selling them in the future, as an independent operator isn't likely to have gas fuelling facilities (or build any).
Another repeat of the Quaylink Designlines? I hope not!
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Adrian - 17 Feb 2014
(17 Feb 2014, 6:51 pm)Michael To this day, the Citaro is one of my favorite buses, i also agree with them being as good as they were when they first got them.
Of course how long can the Gas buses last?
Will Stagecoach make that risk and make Sunderland depot 100% Gas bus?
I guess it's a case of how long is a piece of string. If they do last without problems, then it's a very sound investment. If the potential operating costs are significantly lower than that of a Diesel vehicle, it's going to force competitors to go down a similar route.
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Michael - 17 Feb 2014
(17 Feb 2014, 7:06 pm)andreos1 Another repeat of the Quaylink Designlines? I hope not!
I hope not!
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So far (fingers crossed) they haven't had any issues when out on the road - i:e for road testing and the 2 which went to Seaburn on the opening didn't break down.
I hope this is a sign of the whole of SC NE getting some in the future to work along side the Enviro's.
If of course they work out.
Question from the opening day - did any one mention how long these take to re-fuel?
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Adrian - 17 Feb 2014
(17 Feb 2014, 7:15 pm)Michael I hope not!
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So far (fingers crossed) they haven't had any issues when out on the road - i:e for road testing and the 2 which went to Seaburn on the opening didn't break down.
I hope this is a sign of the whole of SC NE getting some in the future to work along side the Enviro's.
If of course they work out.
Question from the opening day - did any one mention how long these take to re-fuel?
Yep - I asked the question. Apparently they'll only take 5 minutes or so to refuel overnight, but once every so often it will take longer. Something to do with fuel tank maintenance iirc.
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Michael - 17 Feb 2014
(17 Feb 2014, 7:17 pm)aureolin Yep - I asked the question. Apparently they'll only take 5 minutes or so to refuel overnight, but once every so often it will take longer. Something to do with fuel tank maintenance iirc.
Bloody hell that's quick.
How often will they need to re-fueled during the day? - not sure on its engine size etc.
As theirs 3 spares in the depot - least theirs something to cover the re-fueling etc.
I just hope their not off the road alot
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - mattdw92 - 17 Feb 2014
(17 Feb 2014, 7:24 pm)Michael Bloody hell that's quick.
How often will they need to re-fueled during the day? - not sure on its engine size etc.
As theirs 3 spares in the depot - least theirs something to cover the re-fueling etc.
I just hope their not off the road alot
When they have been going to Darlo for refuel, they are only able to be filled up to about three quarters full due to the lower pressure that the Ecocities accept to refuel compared to the Scanias. Going there and back they are using a quarter of the fuel due to the distance and speeds covered.
In other news, the Wigan Transport Trust has acquired 21104 for preservation, which will be taking part in this years UK rally season.
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Dan - 18 Feb 2014
(17 Feb 2014, 5:29 pm)dans_bus_photos Sunderland MANs 22666 and 22735 have both just had full size rear adverts applied- havent managed to see what there advertising yet though.
Believe they're advertising Southmoor Sixth Form.
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Dan - 18 Feb 2014
Still think the decision to upgrade the 20 to gas buses was the wrong one. Currently sat on a packed ALX300 towards town. Most journeys are like this too, which makes you wonder why double deckers weren't considered to be the right choice.
E400Hs would have been ideal.
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Michael - 18 Feb 2014
(18 Feb 2014, 11:21 am)Dan Still think the decision to upgrade the 20 to gas buses was the wrong one. Currently sat on a packed ALX300 towards town. Most journeys are like this too, which makes you wonder why double deckers weren't considered to be the right choice.
E400Hs would have been ideal.
Thought i was the only person who thinks the 20 needs deckers.
Sure someone said ages ago that non of the Sunderland services requires deckers because the passenger numbers are low...
RE: Stagecoach North East - Latest - Dan - 18 Feb 2014
Sneaky shot attached of the loadings...not sure what it looks like as I tried to take it without looking like a prat!
We've left behind two pushchairs already...