(26 Jul 2019, 5:53 pm)RobinHood </p><p>
</p><p><br></p><p>I think you've explained it really there.</p><p><br></p><p>Lack of investment isn't Arrivas fault, it's DB.</p><p>Every since Brexit was a thing, the value of the pound against the Euro has fallen, so their expected profit margin has decreased organically.</p><p><br></p><p>Hence the now lack of investment and sale.</p><p><br></p><p>The sooner Arriva get DB off of their back, the better for everyone - Arriva employees included.</p><p>

(26 Jul 2019, 6:04 pm)streetdeckfan </p><p>
</p><p><br></p><p>But why would Arriva 'waste' money improving services in areas that already have a high proportion of bus users. The lack of competition means that Arriva can get away with not investing anything as passengers have no choice but to use their service</p><p></p><p>

(26 Jul 2019, 8:16 pm)S830OFT </p><p>
</p><p>If that was the case, why did Arriva launch Brand New Buses onto the Sapphire X21/X22, when there is very little competition...</p><p><br></p><p>The likes of the 22/23/24 services are similar to the 56/57/57A, although only the first set of services have been upgraded to a premium standard.</p><p><br></p><p>Let's not forget that the 57A is the key direct service linking&nbsp;Hartlepool with Durham, yet has no features available compared to service 24, which takes longer to reach Durham.</p><p><br></p><p>I think with service investment it is based on a pick &amp; choose basis, as soms services that are in their 'premium brands' don't warrant them.</p><p>

(26 Jul 2019, 6:53 pm)Andreos1 </p><p>
</p><p><br></p><p>Hasn't the investment model been the same prior to DB? United, Tees&nbsp;and Northumbria never really saw huge investment.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p>The Oly's in early 80's,&nbsp;Lynxes/Volvo Oly's etc in mid/late 90's and a boat&nbsp;load of cascades either side.&nbsp;</p><p>

(26 Jul 2019, 8:16 pm)S830OFT If that was the case, why did Arriva launch Brand New Buses onto the Sapphire X21/X22, when there is very little competition... The likes of the 22/23/24 services are similar to the 56/57/57A, although only the first set of services have been upgraded to a premium standard. Let's not forget that the 57A is the key direct service linking Hartlepool with Durham, yet has no features available compared to service 24, which takes longer to reach Durham. I think with service investment it is based on a pick & choose basis, as soms services that are in their 'premium brands' don't warrant them.

(26 Jul 2019, 8:26 pm)BusLoverMum Competition. 22/23/24 all have stiff competition from gne on significant stretches of their routes. On short hops and,&nbsp;at least until recently, for season tickets,&nbsp;they compete in price hut they also need to compete in comfort and features. 56/57/57a don't really have any competition & save the SB 58, which is hardly a luxury service and seem to carry a high proportion of bus pass users.

(26 Jul 2019, 8:47 pm)L469 YVK </p><p>
</p><p><br></p><p>Trying to think of NMS' key orders:</p><p>- 1986/87 Leyland Olympians</p><p>- 1989 Optare Deltas</p><p>- 1994 Volvo Olympian Palatine II (Cummins L10)</p><p>- 1995/96 Scania N113 East Lancs Cityzens</p><p>- 1995/96 Scania L113 East Lancs Europeans</p><p>- 1996/97 Scania L113 East Lancs Europeans</p><p>- 1996/97 Volvo Olympian Palatine II (Volvo D10)</p><p>- 1997/98&nbsp;DAF SB3000 Plaxton Prima</p><p>

(26 Jul 2019, 9:14 pm)Jimmi BusLoverMum summed it up but I feel there is more to add...

Obviously the services chosen to be upgraded are done on a pick and choose basis, you would pick a service that has a potential to benefit from an upgrade, many of the services under Sapphire brand run in urban areas that has the likelihood of gaining passengers from and sure enough numbers shot right up on many of these services after being upgraded.

The Durham to Hartlepool thing, the number seemingly making this full journey ain't a massive amount (really, I have to say this again! ) and with the 22/23/24 &amp; 56/57/57A it's a fair lot of passing from a village to a town/city centre or another village for shopping and whatever else like people in Wheatley Hill going to Durham, Peterlee or Sunderland.

The 22/23/24 run later in some form than the 56/57/57A do with the 57/57A winding down between 6 &amp; 7pm wheras the 22 &amp; 24 run later, granted the 56 runs into the night now (in place of X12) but it is allocated buses off other services due to interworking patterns so what would the point be in insisting in 'premium buses' on a service that only runs like 07:00 - 19:00 Monday to Saturday over a service that runs most of the day, would only make sense if these buses were allocated elsewhere in the evenings.

With all this in mind, I say all the services under the 'premium brands' are far more worthy of this treatment than the likes of the 57A which only really does anything between Durham and Bowburn, most times I see the 57A on the Trimdon Village to Hartlepool stretch the numbers are in single figures and doesn't operate in the evenings and Sundays. The only thing I can potentially see upgrading the stock on 56/57/57A is the fact GNE opted to pull out of Coundon which likely saw a slight rise in numbers from Coundon on the 56 but then again there's virtually no competition on the 56/57/57A routes now so that's less for Arriva to worry about.

(26 Jul 2019, 10:18 pm)streetdeckfan At risk of 'Arriva bashing' again, I feel like the Sapphire brand is a joke at this point. What is supposed to 'make my journey sparkle'? Because as far as I can tell, all they've done is stick a few stickers up that say 'Sapphire'. It's the same old buses that they run on any other route. And what is the difference between a MAX and Sapphire service other than the name? Not to be a GNE evangelist, but as I said previously, their 'standard' spec is equal to or higher than Arriva's Sapphire, even on the X21/X22. As much as I see people complain about them, I think the tables were a great idea, I'm always using them to work on the bus, plus it gives me a seat with legroom! I'm not surprised GNE dropped Coundon, I only ever saw a couple people stay on the 18. And if I'm being totally honest, I'm very surprised they actually extended the X21 to Tindale, people I speak to at the stop let the X21 go by and get the 6 as they say the X21 takes too long because of the route it takes through Woodhouse

(26 Jul 2019, 10:53 pm)V514DFT Werent metroriders in production from 1993-1997

(26 Jul 2019, 10:07 pm)Storx </p><p><br></p><p>I might be wrong here but if I'm right the first Arriva bus bought for their respective depot at Ashington would be the Centros in 2007 and Redcar the Temsa / Pulsars in 2009 not sure what they got first.</p><p><br></p><p>It's no where near that bad currently and you have to give credit to DB for sorting out the complete mess they got when they inheritied it regardless to how little they're putting in now.<br></p><p>

(26 Jul 2019, 11:22 pm)Jimmi When Sapphire was launched it seemed to be more of a big deal as Arriva North East hadn't really had any buses with WiFi, e-leather seats or charging ports of any form prior to the introduction of Sapphire on service 7 back in late 2013 (only X66 coaches and Durham Park &amp; Rides had WiFi pre Sapphire IIRC), over time more routes went Sapphire and then MAX came along with Sapphire still being the 'premium' offering for a while but later the MAX spec basically became the same minus the next stop announcements although Darlington MAX buses gained NSAs due to council requests or something. Now Sapphire and standard is more or less the same spec apart from being a different colour inside and out and no NSAs although Temsas haven't gained WiFi or USBs in their recent refurbs. I would say at this stage Sapphire, MAX &amp; Frequenta is just a brand in the same sense as 'Angel' or 'Castles Express' is to GNE to some extents although personally I feel it is somewhat better to have a pretty standard spec for all routes and brands like GNE are doing.&nbsp;

(26 Jul 2019, 11:41 pm)Multi21 </p><p>
</p><p><br></p><p>Anyone else screaming 4646 - 4659 2005 stock? 4660 - 4664 07 Plates</p><p>7501 - 7516? 57 plates</p><p>Lowlanders 57 plates..&nbsp;</p><p>Solos 08s..</p><p>Darts 05s</p><p>

(26 Jul 2019, 10:07 pm)Storx </p><p>
</p><p><br></p><p>Metroriders aswell, not sure on the date on them.</p><p><br></p><p>The pre DB Arriva wasn't particually the best neither but some people seem to forget&nbsp;the investment between 2001 and 2007 apart from Operation Overdrive was just as bad imo. In fact unless I missed some buses, Arriva Northumbria between 2001 and 2006 got the 3 commanders, and a few darts and that's the lot other than some rather questionable cascades such as the ex London Olympians on the 308, the Europeans branding for the Ashington Express buses when they were well past it, Metro Riders over 10 year old running flagship services often etc.</p><p><br></p><p>I might be wrong here but if I'm right the first Arriva bus bought for their respective depot at Ashington would be the Centros in 2007 and Redcar the Temsa / Pulsars in 2009 not sure what they got first.</p><p><br></p><p>It's no where near that bad currently and you have to give credit to DB for sorting out the complete mess they got when they inheritied it regardless to how little they're putting in now.<br></p><p>

(27 Jul 2019, 10:46 am)Storx <p>
</p><p><br></p><p>I know I mentioned them (Operation Overdrive)? I was talking specifically about the two depots Redcar and Ashington and the first bus which theygot after they were rebranded under Arriva. Overdrive was Durham / Darlington. Stockton had the cadets, Jesmond the Volvo's and Tridents then Blyth the Commanders and few darts.<br></p>

(26 Jul 2019, 8:07 pm)Citaro5338 Does anyone know why 1801 is off as every 57/57A board that should be 1801 is a Solo. Haven't seen it for 2 weeks at least.