(06 Oct 2019, 10:51 pm)streetdeckfan Is it just me that thinks it's a bit hypocritical that GNE can go on about how they're investing all this money in new buses that are better for the environment, and still acquire 15 year old examples for scholars services?
Sure, they're better than what they're replacing, but not by that much.
Would it not make more sense to invest in some newer vehicles (they don't even have to be brand new) than keep buying vehicles that are on their last legs?

(06 Oct 2019, 10:51 pm)streetdeckfan Is it just me that thinks it's a bit hypocritical that GNE can go on about how they're investing all this money in new buses that are better for the environment, and still acquire 15 year old examples for scholars services?
Sure, they're better than what they're replacing, but not by that much.
Would it not make more sense to invest in some newer vehicles (they don't even have to be brand new) than keep buying vehicles that are on their last legs?

In my opinion you’ve answered your point. Scholars services (1 run in & 1 run out), not being bought for front line services. 33 brand new buses (if the streetdecks come) don’t come cheap removing some of the oldest buses from front line services, not forgetting in most cases adding WiFi and usb charging in the process.

(07 Oct 2019, 4:40 am)Dan I mean, the alternative is to not invest at all, like other operators in the region!

Putting any bias to one side; in the current economic climate, the level of investment Go North East is putting into new Euro 6 vehicles, newer pre-owned bus acquisitions and Euro 6 exhaust modifications is commendable.

These are the only suitable double-decks available within the group at the moment. It isn't too long ago when much newer Volvo B9s were acquired from Go-Ahead London (and repainted/refurbished/converted to single door before entering service).

Other factors, such as cost, also have to come into consideration when newer buses are available (how has the company priced its scholars contract tenders this year, will a profit still be delivered if newer buses are acquired for the operation of said contracts, etc).

The five buses acquired yesterday really aren't on their last legs and I'm not sure where this misconception has come from. To run at 60mph all the way from Brighton to Consett is a pretty hard job for a bus, but all five managed it without difficulty (just like every single one of those OmniDekkas has over the last few years, bar one or two!)

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It would be interesting to see the fixed costs of operating a scholars service vs the variable costs i.e fuel economy savings in using different vehicle types and their Euro rating.

I appreciate the scholars services have that element of inelasticity in them, in that a bigger proportion of passengers will not have an alternative transport offer, compared to punters on the X30 say.

By virtue of this, the operator will want to put the shiny, appealing option in to service work at a similar time of day, in the hope of retaining and growing the market share.

To balance that, you then have those scholars moving on and their opinion of public transport will be based on previous experiences - such as their scholars bus, which was potentially older than they are and wasn't at all shiny or appealing internally.

(07 Oct 2019, 8:06 am)Andreos1

It would be interesting to see the fixed costs of operating a scholars service vs the variable costs i.e fuel economy savings in using different vehicle types and their Euro rating.

I appreciate the scholars services have that element of inelasticity in them, in that a bigger proportion of passengers will not have an alternative transport offer, compared to punters on the X30 say.

By virtue of this, the operator will want to put the shiny, appealing option in to service work at a similar time of day, in the hope of retaining and growing the market share.

To balance that, you then have those scholars moving on and their opinion of public transport will be based on previous experiences - such as their scholars bus, which was potentially older than they are and wasn't at all shiny or appealing internally.

The vehicle type will have little effect on their use in the future. It depends on previous exposure to public transport.

Any children who have always been driven round by mammy and daddy will probably never step on a bus unless they have no other option.

Anyway I think a big point that everyone is missing. Prior to 2011 there was almost a decade long gap in the order of new DD (excluding the original Geminis 05/06 reg). Since 2011 new or ex-dealer DD have been acquired every financial year. However a handful have gone to upgrading single deck services to DD (10, 56, 309/310), which has lead to the generally younger single deck age as opposed to DD. No doubt with continued DD investment, it wont be too far in the future where the B9s go into scholars work.

Lets not forget also, a few years ago when GNE had very little school contracts, great swaithes of older DD were withdrawn. Obviously they have had to build up their DD for the new scholars work. But even if GNE were as rich as a Russian Oligarch and could afford to buy new DD for scholars every year, do you think that the short timescale from tenders being awarded to start of new school year is a bit short notice? From order to delivery, do you think they would manage to have them for service at start of new term?

I think if the contracts weren't awarded on a yearly basis then, there may be definite scope for improving scholars, however we have seen how things can change year to year. However surely anything to reduce fleet age should be welcome? Or would we much rather the Vykings to still be kicking round in another 5 years?

(07 Oct 2019, 9:42 am)JP6004

The vehicle type will have little effect on their use in the future. It depends on previous exposure to public transport.

Any children who have always been driven round by mammy and daddy will probably never step on a bus unless they have no other option.

Anyway I think a big point that everyone is missing. Prior to 2011 there was almost a decade long gap in the order of new DD (excluding the original Geminis 05/06 reg). Since 2011 new or ex-dealer DD have been acquired every financial year. However a handful have gone to upgrading single deck services to DD (10, 56, 309/310), which has lead to the generally younger single deck age as opposed to DD. No doubt with continued DD investment, it wont be too far in the future where the B9s go into scholars work.

Lets not forget also, a few years ago when GNE had very little school contracts, great swaithes of older DD were withdrawn. Obviously they have had to build up their DD for the new scholars work. But even if GNE were as rich as a Russian Oligarch and could afford to buy new DD for scholars every year, do you think that the short timescale from tenders being awarded to start of new school year is a bit short notice? From order to delivery, do you think they would manage to have them for service at start of new term?

I think if the contracts weren't awarded on a yearly basis then, there may be definite scope for improving scholars, however we have seen how things can change year to year. However surely anything to reduce fleet age should be welcome? Or would we much rather the Vykings to still be kicking round in another 5 years?

(07 Oct 2019, 10:03 am)Michael The B9's will likely be in a spare role by at least 2025, as there's still 38 Omnidekka's (that includes the 5 which have just arrived), 24 Presidents , 8 Vykings in the fleet, it would of been less in the next couple of months, but because Wrightbus collapsed, they'll probables won't be withdrawn now but hopefully Wrightbus is saved by end of this week, and that sets the motion for them to get withdrawn.

Yes there would be a few older DD due for withdrawal, however the B9s are being used to upgrade single deck allocations,  which will reduce the single deck fleet age from 18yrs to 13yrs. Id imagine once X1 DD arrive next year, this will lead to further older DD being withdrawn and further reduction of fleet age

To those saying about the older bus fleets compared to other areas I could imagine it's more to the way the North East is. Most bus routes are very one way at peak times ie. into town in the morning, out at the evening and carrying fresh air the other direction. There's not much you can do about that plus having the hospital and university in the centre aswell which doesn't help flow which isn't the same for Nottingham and Edinburgh - not to mention having the Metro aswell.

Blackpool and Lothian pretty much have a monopoly aswell.

All the flagshit routes pretty much in the north east have 2 directional flows for GNE;

309 / 310 - Cobalt / Newcastle

56 - Sunderland / Newcastle

21 / X21 - Durham / Newcastle

20 / X20 - Durham / Sunderland

X10 - Teeside / Newcastle

10 - Newcastle / Metro Centre

X66 - Gateshead / Metro Centre

Similar for Arriva

7 - Durham / Darlington

X66 - Darlington / Middlesbrough

308 - Silverlink / Newcastle

X7 / X8 - Newcastle / Quorum

64 - Durham / Arnison

The X10/X11/X21/X22 being the out ones out but the morning journeys out of town are dead and same the opposite way at peak times. It's the reason I guess why we have little bus routes in the evenings in some areas and only 2 night buses.

It's no wonder the North East in general don't make much money but it's just the layout the things are and there's not much you can do about it whereas places like Yorkshire have multiple cities / towns to connect inbetween Wakefield / Leeds, Leeds / Bradford for example so have 2 directional flows hence why we wont get as much investment as other areas.

(07 Oct 2019, 10:17 am)JP6004

Yes there would be a few older DD due for withdrawal, however the B9s are being used to upgrade single deck allocations,  which will reduce the single deck fleet age from 18yrs to 13yrs. Id imagine once X1 DD arrive next year, this will lead to further older DD being withdrawn and further reduction of fleet age

(07 Oct 2019, 10:26 am)Michael Hopefully the older deckers are withdrawn then, i'm not even sure whats withdrawing what, since Wrightbus collapsed, i would imagine they've waited to order the X1 deckers and gone back to the drawing board... but i have a feeling they've ordered E400MMC's for the X1.

We will just have to wait and see, its not collapsed yet and is still trading, just need to find a buyer then full steam ahead

(07 Oct 2019, 10:36 am)JP6004

We will just have to wait and see, its not collapsed yet and is still trading, just need to find a buyer then full steam ahead

(07 Oct 2019, 10:39 am)Michael So with it still trading, can GNE recieve the buses already built?

I believe so, there are 50 staff still working at wrightbus, however not sure on what positions they are holding. So yes the buses may be ready to be shipped over, however there may not be anyone to deliver them.....

(07 Oct 2019, 9:42 am)JP6004

The vehicle type will have little effect on their use in the future. It depends on previous exposure to public transport.

Any children who have always been driven round by mammy and daddy will probably never step on a bus unless they have no other option.

Anyway I think a big point that everyone is missing. Prior to 2011 there was almost a decade long gap in the order of new DD (excluding the original Geminis 05/06 reg). Since 2011 new or ex-dealer DD have been acquired every financial year. However a handful have gone to upgrading single deck services to DD (10, 56, 309/310), which has lead to the generally younger single deck age as opposed to DD. No doubt with continued DD investment, it wont be too far in the future where the B9s go into scholars work.

Lets not forget also, a few years ago when GNE had very little school contracts, great swaithes of older DD were withdrawn. Obviously they have had to build up their DD for the new scholars work. But even if GNE were as rich as a Russian Oligarch and could afford to buy new DD for scholars every year, do you think that the short timescale from tenders being awarded to start of new school year is a bit short notice? From order to delivery, do you think they would manage to have them for service at start of new term?

I think if the contracts weren't awarded on a yearly basis then, there may be definite scope for improving scholars, however we have seen how things can change year to year. However surely anything to reduce fleet age should be welcome? Or would we much rather the Vykings to still be kicking round in another 5 years?

Hence referring to the inflexibility of some scholars...

I'd hazard a guess that anyone spending 5/7 years on a school bus that has a tired interior and is prone to condensation, rattling and mildew will be put off public transport to some extent.

There's a reason GNE are increasingly adapting their pricing and marketing towards the younger generations and I would argue that the on-board WiFi, sockets etc are certainly something that is fitted with younger people in mind.

It goes without saying that younger people are the next generation of car drivers.

Surely you would want to give them a taste of something nicer than a 15 year old decker? I'm not sure anyone has said they need to buy a brand new vehicle for a short-term contract either. 

Time and time again we hear about 'workhorses' and 'reliability', 'not missing a beat' or being 'lovely to drive'. 

Thats brill. Lovely.

The drivers aren't the ones sitting paying the fares and being inconvenienced in dragging out a passport for the privilege. 

(07 Oct 2019, 11:09 am)Rapidsnap With regards to the latest Scanias from Brighton, these 5 have had engine modifications to bring them up to a higher Euro level, looking at the photos they have the same additional vents as the Solars that were done around here.

(07 Oct 2019, 4:40 am)Dan

I mean, the alternative is to not invest at all, like other operators in the region!

Putting any bias to one side; in the current economic climate, the level of investment Go North East is putting into new Euro 6 vehicles, newer pre-owned bus acquisitions and Euro 6 exhaust modifications is commendable.

Out of interest, did the exhaust modifications take advantage of the various grants on offer for such work?

FWIW though, can't fault GNE for the investment.

(07 Oct 2019, 11:06 am)Andreos1

Hence referring to the inflexibility of some scholars...

I'd hazard a guess that anyone spending 5/7 years on a school bus that has a tired interior and is prone to condensation, rattling and mildew will be put off public transport to some extent.

There's a reason GNE are increasingly adapting their pricing and marketing towards the younger generations and I would argue that the on-board WiFi, sockets etc are certainly something that is fitted with younger people in mind.

It goes without saying that younger people are the next generation of car drivers.

Surely you would want to give them a taste of something nicer than a 15 year old decker? I'm not sure anyone has said they need to buy a brand new vehicle for a short-term contract either. 

Time and time again we hear about 'workhorses' and 'reliability', 'not missing a beat' or being 'lovely to drive'. 

Thats brill. Lovely.

The drivers aren't the ones sitting paying the fares and being inconvenienced in dragging out a passport for the privilege. 

As more is invested and the company goes through the natural churn, higher spec vehicles will eventually end up on scholar services - with sockets and wifi. However, Im pretty sure they travel on more buses than just the scholars. Do they not goo to town/ metrocentre etc. Think they are well aware of the superiority of front line services.

(07 Oct 2019, 11:13 am)Michael Are they Euro 5 or 6?

I would assume Euro 5, they do have the same engine as the L94UBs.

(07 Oct 2019, 11:51 am)JP6004

As more is invested and the company goes through the natural churn, higher spec vehicles will eventually end up on scholar services - with sockets and wifi. However, Im pretty sure they travel on more buses than just the scholars. Do they not goo to town/ metrocentre etc. Think they are well aware of the superiority of front line services.

I'd hope higher spec vehicles were allocated through churn, but can't see it myself.

More money to be made selling a high spec decker than sticking it on a scholars.

As for being aware of higher spec vehicles, I reckon a proportion will use the bus to the Metrocentre or Newcastle on a weekend.

A proportion will get lifts off mammy and daddy, some will be playing football or some other sports and a proportion won't have a service - cos there's no money to be made on an evening or weekend.

I can purely base that assumption on eldest Constantopolous and his mates. I speak from experience.

Started driving lessons not long after his 17th birthday and passed his test a few months later.

He had been a bus user and had the benefit of his T&W Pop Card to mitigate costs.

Fancy interior or not; gaining independence, convenience and not being at the whims of GNE operational decisions were a priority.

He used a commercial service to/from school (with all the perks it had) until he left.

He's not the first of his group to do this and wasn't the last. I'd hazard a guess that his group aren't unique.