+- North East Buses (https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forums)
+-- Forum: Local Bus Scene (https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Go North East (https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=54)
+--- Thread: Paper Timetables (/showthread.php?tid=3155)
RE: Paper Timetables - Rob44 - 19 Apr 2022
I dont often give go north east praise but i picked up a timetable on the 94 today and its clear and concise. it also includes the 91, 92 and 937, one of which isnt a GNE service. It also has a icon to tell u the service wont be ran but a " loop bus". Very good
RE: Paper Timetables - Andreos1 - 19 Apr 2022
(19 Apr 2022, 12:51 pm)Rob44 I dont often give go north east praise but i picked up a timetable on the 94 today and its clear and concise. it also includes the 91, 92 and 937, one of which isnt a GNE service. It also has a icon to tell u the service wont be ran but a " loop bus". Very goodDitto.
Praised it on here in the past and I think it's something which should be a standard bearer not just for GNE, but other operators too - particularly when there's a shared route, operated by different companies at different times of the day.
RE: Paper Timetables - stagecoachbusdepot - 02 Jan 2023
Resurrecting an old thread here but wondering if anyone knows whether GNE or SNE produced printed Christmas timetables this year? I know Arriva did and all three did last year, but didn't see any GNE or SNE offerings this time around?
Paper Timetables - Dan - 03 Jan 2023
(02 Jan 2023, 11:19 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Resurrecting an old thread here but wondering if anyone knows whether GNE or SNE produced printed Christmas timetables this year? I know Arriva did and all three did last year, but didn't see any GNE or SNE offerings this time around?
A guide was produced (and is available to download from the website) for Go North East, but was not printed.
GNE do not produce paper timetables anymore.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Paper Timetables - cbma06 - 03 Jan 2023
(03 Jan 2023, 5:11 am)Dan A guide was produced (and is available to download from the website) for Go North East, but was not printed.
GNE do not produce paper timetables anymore.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dan, are GNE starting to have online pdf timetables again, so timetables can be downloaded from the website?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RE: Paper Timetables - streetdeckfan - 03 Jan 2023
(03 Jan 2023, 5:11 am)Dan A guide was produced (and is available to download from the website) for Go North East, but was not printed.
GNE do not produce paper timetables anymore.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Surprised they're even wasting money on the formatted timetables.
What's the point if they're not going to be printed!
RE: Paper Timetables - Adrian - 03 Jan 2023
(03 Jan 2023, 12:53 pm)streetdeckfan Surprised they're even wasting money on the formatted timetables.
What's the point if they're not going to be printed!
Yeah, I can't see the point either. Plus, from the Enhanced Partnership papers that went to the November JTC, it included this about passenger information.
"Ensuring services run as a cohesive network, including branding and enhanced passenger information. This will be in the form of a new website and app as well as additional staffing and offline information."
It gives the impression that there'll be centralised information going forward, perhaps even in paper format, instead of the usual multitude of colours in the leaflet racks of time gone by.
Looks like it's not all bad news for the eBay bandits after all
RE: Paper Timetables - DeltaMan - 03 Jan 2023
At the risk of sounding like a sycophant, I quite like the new pdf format. It's a lot clearer and it looks print friendly too!
Shame about the paper timetables though. They would be a marginal cost, although I can imagine three versions of the Stanley and Consett guide in one year recently would punch quite a hole....
Hopefully, they'll make a return in some form like elsewhere in the UK with other local bus companies and local authorities.
RE: Paper Timetables - streetdeckfan - 03 Jan 2023
(03 Jan 2023, 2:34 pm)DeltaMan At the risk of sounding like a sycophant, I quite like the new pdf format. It's a lot clearer and it looks print friendly too!
Shame about the paper timetables though. They would be a marginal cost, although I can imagine three versions of the Stanley and Consett guide in one year recently would punch quite a hole....
Hopefully, they'll make a return in some form like elsewhere in the UK with other local bus companies and local authorities.
You mean like they did under MG?
RE: Paper Timetables - Adrian - 03 Jan 2023
(03 Jan 2023, 2:34 pm)DeltaMan At the risk of sounding like a sycophant, I quite like the new pdf format. It's a lot clearer and it looks print friendly too!
Shame about the paper timetables though. They would be a marginal cost, although I can imagine three versions of the Stanley and Consett guide in one year recently would punch quite a hole....
Hopefully, they'll make a return in some form like elsewhere in the UK with other local bus companies and local authorities.
You're probably looking at £500 per 10,000 timetables, not only for the printing but the folding process. Multiply that by the number of services, and again by the number of changes (even tweaks) every year, and it becomes a small fortune.
The area guides that they produced won't have been cheap either. Probably looking at £2000-£3000 per 5000, for the print and post-processing.
Of course none of this includes the cost of design or any studio work.
Whilst I think paper timetables are nice to have, they don't really serve any purpose when an operator is not disciplined enough to avoid frequent timetable (or price) changes. You might have just spent £3000 on an area guide for Consett for example, and it's immediately out of date because they've needed to tweak a couple journeys on the 47.
RE: Paper Timetables - Andreos1 - 03 Jan 2023
(03 Jan 2023, 2:55 pm)Adrian You're probably looking at £500 per 10,000 timetables, not only for the printing but the folding process. Multiply that by the number of services, and again by the number of changes (even tweaks) every year, and it becomes a small fortune.
The area guides that they produced won't have been cheap either. Probably looking at £2000-£3000 per 5000, for the print and post-processing.
Of course none of this includes the cost of design or any studio work.
Whilst I think paper timetables are nice to have, they don't really serve any purpose when an operator is not disciplined enough to avoid frequent timetable (or price) changes. You might have just spent £3000 on an area guide for Consett for example, and it's immediately out of date because they've needed to tweak a couple journeys on the 47.
Or branding or vehicle changes.
I get that business needs change, but there's that balance between instant reactions (which inevitably fall out of reliability and a subsequent renumbering and seems to happen too often - see Consett again) and adapting to suit passenger needs (which doesn't seem to happen that often or at all).
Subsequently, those timetables or guides that have had thousands allocated for in the latest budget, are obsolete. The business case for the next lot suddenly becomes a lot weaker too.
Was it September 2021 when they produced that huge guide, distributed them to homes across the region and then became obsolete within weeks due to changes they hadn't factored in or planned just a few weeks prior?
RE: Paper Timetables - DeltaMan - 03 Jan 2023
(03 Jan 2023, 2:55 pm)Adrian You're probably looking at £500 per 10,000 timetables, not only for the printing but the folding process. Multiply that by the number of services, and again by the number of changes (even tweaks) every year, and it becomes a small fortune.See, I don't agree. At the risk of sounding like Roger French, I think they are essential as part of a package.
The area guides that they produced won't have been cheap either. Probably looking at £2000-£3000 per 5000, for the print and post-processing.
Of course none of this includes the cost of design or any studio work.
Whilst I think paper timetables are nice to have, they don't really serve any purpose when an operator is not disciplined enough to avoid frequent timetable (or price) changes. You might have just spent £3000 on an area guide for Consett for example, and it's immediately out of date because they've needed to tweak a couple journeys on the 47.
I know of two companies than went to a uni open day. One took a proper timetable and the other took a piece of paper with a QR code to a link (which didn't work). I can tell you the bin was full of the QR codes and the timetable booklet were exhausted (and not binned).
It is also a drop in the ocean compared to the overall turnover of a medium to large bus companny. It's certainly not the timetable leaflets fault if an operator can't schedule it's services properly.
Of course, they are the first thing a bean counter looks at when trying to save some money when said service changes are a disaster.
RE: Paper Timetables - Adrian - 03 Jan 2023
(03 Jan 2023, 5:07 pm)DeltaMan See, I don't agree. At the risk of sounding like Roger French, I think they are essential as part of a package.
I know of two companies than went to a uni open day. One took a proper timetable and the other took a piece of paper with a QR code to a link (which didn't work). I can tell you the bin was full of the QR codes and the timetable booklet were exhausted (and not binned).
It is also a drop in the ocean compared to the overall turnover of a medium to large bus companny. It's certainly not the timetable leaflets fault if an operator can't schedule it's services properly.
Of course, they are the first thing a bean counter looks at when trying to save some money when said service changes are a disaster.
What makes them essential though? A commercial operator's primary objective is to get passengers from A to B, whilst at least breaking even in doing so. As far as a business is concerned, it's non-essential expenditure, because it's absence doesn't impact it's ability to meet the primary objective.
The likes of Roger will bang on about them as essential, but it's not like the information is being completely removed from those without Internet or smartphone access. There's timetables displayed at every stop (and the local authority will replace it if missing) and there's the Traveline service by phone. I'm sure even GNE customer services would do something on an individual basis, if there's a particular need from a customer.
Longer term, with Enhanced Partnerships, we'll hopefully see a better progression of real-time info at more stops too, similar to what Brighton have managed to oll out.
On the Uni example; I'd expect pieces of paper with QR code to end up in the bin, because once someone has accessed it with a smart phone, then they have the app download or website it's linking them to. It serves no purpose to that person beyond that single use. Instead of using a couple trees worth of paper though, they could have considered something large format (such as a pull-up banner) with the same information on - and a QR code large enough to scan.
RE: Paper Timetables - DeltaMan - 03 Jan 2023
(03 Jan 2023, 6:11 pm)Adrian What makes them essential though? A commercial operator's primary objective is to get passengers from A to B, whilst at least breaking even in doing so. As far as a business is concerned, it's non-essential expenditure, because it's absence doesn't impact it's ability to meet the primary objective.Why does LIDL and ALDI print weekly magazines despite the very same information being in the app?
RE: Paper Timetables - Unber43 - 03 Jan 2023
(03 Jan 2023, 8:13 pm)DeltaMan Why does LIDL and ALDI print weekly magazines despite the very same information being in the app?In fairness you can do nice things like that when you're making millions.
RE: Paper Timetables - streetdeckfan - 03 Jan 2023
(03 Jan 2023, 8:13 pm)DeltaMan Why does LIDL and ALDI print weekly magazines despite the very same information being in the app?
Same with Screwfix and Toolstation.
90% of the time I will reach for the catalogue over trying to use their websites, especially Toolstation!
RE: Paper Timetables - Adrian - 03 Jan 2023
(03 Jan 2023, 8:13 pm)DeltaMan Why does LIDL and ALDI print weekly magazines despite the very same information being in the app?Those weekly magazines serve a different purpose to a bus timetable. They're full of products that they want to make big sales on, whereas a bus timetable is full of times a bus is scheduled to arrive?
If you're trying to market and sell products, then their research likely tells them that its worthwhile to provide paper copies of their magazine.
Does a bus timetable market a bus service? Those who are most unlikely to have access to the information electronically, are those who by their age demographic, don't pay for their travel anyway; and are likely to be using buses out of necessity.
I'm not saying bus operators shouldn't print anything ever again, but paper timetables are a relic of the past now.
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
RE: Paper Timetables - Andreos1 - 04 Jan 2023
(03 Jan 2023, 5:07 pm)DeltaMan See, I don't agree. At the risk of sounding like Roger French, I think they are essential as part of a package.
I know of two companies than went to a uni open day. One took a proper timetable and the other took a piece of paper with a QR code to a link (which didn't work). I can tell you the bin was full of the QR codes and the timetable booklet were exhausted (and not binned).
It is also a drop in the ocean compared to the overall turnover of a medium to large bus companny. It's certainly not the timetable leaflets fault if an operator can't schedule it's services properly.
Of course, they are the first thing a bean counter looks at when trying to save some money when said service changes are a disaster.
I like them. I think they're a good idea when the network is stable.
Opening up public transport and making it easy for people to find information is something I think should be a given.
However (there's always one of them), surely the best way to find out if timetables are worth printing is to ask the public?
Forcing them on the public or withdrawing without consultation due to the dogma of the MD or decision maker of the time isn't always going to be the best course of action.
For the bean counters, you're probably going to identify the ROI and clarify whether they do make a difference or not.
RE: Paper Timetables - Adtrainsam - 04 Jan 2023
(03 Jan 2023, 12:53 pm)streetdeckfan Surprised they're even wasting money on the formatted timetables.I think the formatted timetables are much better than the online ones, a PDF is much easier to read and less clunky to use. The formatted timetables allow people to simply print them off at home, at their own cost. Maybe places such as Libraries or Travel Centres (long gone!) could be able to print them on request in standard A4 for those that really need a paper version.
What's the point if they're not going to be printed!
That would be the best solution with all the constant service changes IMO.
RE: Paper Timetables - streetdeckfan - 04 Jan 2023
Can I just ask, what exactly is everyone's problem with the timetables on the GNE website?
I've literally never had a problem using or understanding them, even on mobile.
The fact you can scroll the times while keeping the stops visible on the left makes it infinitely more readable than a PDF!