(24 Dec 2021, 2:20 pm)busmanT The rail service from Hexham to Newcastle has increased in frequency since GNE started the X85 (from 2 trains per hour to 3 trains per hour) and the rolling stock has improved from the class 142s - so the train is bound to have hit passenger numbers on the X85 (as well as X84 and 685)>

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First time I've heard the late Peter Huntley called a failure !
Peter brought route branding in, vehicle refurbishment, reinvigorated printed timetables and, like MG, was high profile.

Peter H and MG have both spent a very large amount of money on fleet upgrades and vehicle presentation - but GNE continued pre pandemic to be the least profitable of the 3 large North East operators.

(24 Dec 2021, 2:20 pm)busmanT The rail service from Hexham to Newcastle has increased in frequency since GNE started the X85 (from 2 trains per hour to 3 trains per hour) and the rolling stock has improved from the class 142s - so the train is bound to have hit passenger numbers on the X85 (as well as X84 and 685) 

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First time I've heard the late Peter Huntley called a failure !
Peter brought route branding in, vehicle refurbishment, reinvigorated printed timetables and, like MG, was high profile.

Peter H and MG have both spent a very large amount of money on fleet upgrades and vehicle presentation - but GNE continued pre pandemic to be the least profitable of the 3 large North East operators.

(24 Dec 2021, 8:15 pm)Andreos1 So is the X85 evidence that a Stenning copy & paste livery, tables and some WiFi isn't the solution operators thought it was?
If punters are choosing a 35 year old train (that misses town centres along its entire Tyne Valley route) over a brand new bus, then there's obviously issues somewhere that those features mentioned above can't (and won't) fix.

(24 Dec 2021, 8:22 pm)Dan You seem to be forgetting that the X85 has also seen a huge marketing drive (digital and print both targeted), faster journey times offered (more direct route via A69 than pre-Covid), and much later evening journeys introduced as well as Sunday. This is in addition to the investment into brand new buses with all the bells and whistles.

Aside from fundamentally changing the purpose of this route, what more do you think they could have done? I am really interested to hear.


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(24 Dec 2021, 8:29 pm)Andreos1 That's right it has. And did any of those strategies work? Has the advertising resulted in a service which has grown and developed to something which is sustainable and profitable? 

Or are we in a position where the operator sees it as disposable with the ROI lower than forecasted in its business case?

Regardless of me proposing X, Y and Z, the people who make these commercial decisions and being paid to see it succeed - have lost out to a 35 year old train. 
They've failed to capture the market and are seeing people travel to out of town railway stations before commuting to their places of work or leisure (presumably places the X85 doesn't go to).

(24 Dec 2021, 8:34 pm)Dan Don’t dodge the question, Andreos!

You have been very vocal in your opinions recently regarding the X9/X10 and X84/X85. You are very clear in your view about the strategies employed by GNE’s commercial team not working. What would you do differently in these cases, to save these hugely loss-making routes (which have been for almost two years)?


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(24 Dec 2021, 8:38 pm)Andreos1 Pulling me up for dodging a question (look closely, you might see my response), whilst not answering questions yourself #theirony #hashtagsonNEB

(24 Dec 2021, 8:29 pm)Andreos1 That's right it has. And did any of those strategies work? Has the advertising resulted in a service which has grown and developed to something which is sustainable and profitable? 

Or are we in a position where the operator sees it as disposable with the ROI lower than forecasted in its business case?

Regardless of me proposing X, Y and Z, the people who make these commercial decisions and being paid to see it succeed - have lost out to a 35 year old train. 
They've failed to capture the market and are seeing people travel to out of town railway stations before commuting to their places of work or leisure (presumably places the X85 doesn't go to).

I'm all for commercial operators taking commercial risk. However when the same old doesn't work, it makes sense to try something else.

(24 Dec 2021, 8:35 pm)Rapidsnap To be fair, rerouting the X85 to go direct along the A69 has more likely killed the service more than help it, as it only really serves Hexham Bus Station and Corbridge petrol station before galloping along to Denton Burn. They should at least kept it serving Horsley and Heddon on the Wall, and if they wanted to attract people in Hexham, it would have been better off extending the service to loop around Priestlands and Causey Hill. Because if people need to be given a lift to somewhere, they probably be given a lift to the train station as it's easier to drive there and drop people off compared to dropping people off at Hexham Bus Station, plus easier for cars to wait to pick people up too.

(24 Dec 2021, 8:39 pm)Dan Hehe!! You’re making me chuckle this evening, Andreos! I’ll consider that your Christmas present to the community.


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(24 Dec 2021, 8:49 pm)Storx Surely the bus should compliment the train rather than compete against it... 

It's one of the biggest reason why public transport sucks in the UK whereas in European countries the bus would take you to the local train station to get in a more modern train to Newcastle with the bus times linking with the train and so on. 

It's one of the reasons why transport works in London as it links up whereas the rest of the UK it doesn't.

Train will always beat bus regardless because the bus takes longer and does the exact same route as the car.

(24 Dec 2021, 2:20 pm)busmanT The rail service from Hexham to Newcastle has increased in frequency since GNE started the X85 (from 2 trains per hour to 3 trains per hour) and the rolling stock has improved from the class 142s - so the train is bound to have hit passenger numbers on the X85 (as well as X84 and 685)>

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First time I've heard the late Peter Huntley called a failure !
Peter brought route branding in, vehicle refurbishment, reinvigorated printed timetables and, like MG, was high profile.

Peter H and MG have both spent a very large amount of money on fleet upgrades and vehicle presentation - but GNE continued pre pandemic to be the least profitable of the 3 large North East operators.

(24 Dec 2021, 8:15 pm)Andreos1 So is the X85 evidence that a Stenning copy & paste livery, tables and some WiFi isn't the solution operators thought it was?
If punters are choosing a 35 year old train (that misses town centres along its entire Tyne Valley route) over a brand new bus, then there's obviously issues somewhere that those features mentioned above can't (and won't) fix.

(24 Dec 2021, 4:29 pm)L469 YVK I think the late Mr Huntley certainly had good intentions and actually turned the business around to some extent.

My main criticisms of his decisions would be:

- Ultra high spec vehicles - would something like a Volvo B7RLE with Civic V3's or Coach Seating not sufficed over Mercs & Omnicities?

- Pricing & ticketing complicated and expensive - To give credit to Martijn, he's actually trying to turn that around.

(25 Dec 2021, 12:15 am)busmanT I don't think that there is any doubt that "a Stenning copy & paste livery, tables and some WiFi" doesn't work everywhere.

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The big question is "can Go North East afford to offer the bargain fares it currently is doing"? or are some of them just ludicrously cheap. Fares that were nearly £5 now only £1.70. How long will these offers be extended?
£1.70 flat fare in Gateshead is too cheap - Nottingham City for example have a flat fare of £2.40.

(25 Dec 2021, 12:15 am)busmanT I don't think that there is any doubt that "a Stenning copy & paste livery, tables and some WiFi" doesn't work everywhere. 

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The big question is "can Go North East afford to offer the bargain fares it currently is doing"? or are some of them just ludicrously cheap. Fares that were nearly £5 now only £1.70. How long will these offers be extended?
£1.70 flat fare in Gateshead is too cheap - Nottingham City for example have a flat fare of £2.40.

(25 Dec 2021, 12:58 am)Keeiajs But honestly how many people know about these fares.

£1 after 7pm the amount of buses I have been on where people don't know that is a bit of a joke. No one knows about the cheaper fares.

(25 Dec 2021, 12:15 am)busmanT The big question is "can Go North East afford to offer the bargain fares it currently is doing"? or are some of them just ludicrously cheap. Fares that were nearly £5 now only £1.70. How long will these offers be extended?
£1.70 flat fare in Gateshead is too cheap - Nottingham City for example have a flat fare of £2.40.

(24 Dec 2021, 8:34 pm)Dan Don’t dodge the question, Andreos!

You have been very vocal in your opinions recently regarding the X9/X10 and X84/X85. You are very clear in your view about the strategies employed by GNE’s commercial team not working. What would you do differently in these cases, to save these hugely loss-making routes (which have been for almost two years)?


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(27 Dec 2021, 6:08 pm)KingSlayerRBLX Anyways, the X84 & X85 can get canny tight in some area. Its best to use older buses and not risk larger posher ones like the 400MMC's to be damaged. sure they will perform better on the X10!
Cant wait to see how the 400MMC's will look in its Purple X-Lines Attire