(25 Jul 2022, 4:39 pm)TEN 6083 That’s mine, go ahead and use it


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JH not tracking still, hopefully they’ll sort it out as soon as they can especially with gaining extra services from GNE.


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(28 Jul 2022, 1:34 pm)OrangeArrow49 Could there be scope for the 82 to be extended to Newcastle? Perhaps uplift the service to half-hourly, extending to Newcastle once per hour? Maybe this could make the service commercially viable and JH Coaches would be able to compete with Go North East?

(28 Jul 2022, 1:44 pm)Adrian Wouldn't that be Nexus competing with Go North East?

I can't see it being an effective use of what limited money there is for secured services, not least when you have the Metro from Gateshead to the 3 points in Newcastle that people are most likely wanting to travel to.

(28 Jul 2022, 2:20 pm)OrangeArrow49 Just to clarify, I was saying JH Coaches, rather than Nexus, could possibly compete with North East, if there was sufficient demand and other services could be established to connect with.

The Metro costs money, likewise it costs more if you need multiple operators (there is ticket acceptance in place for now, but there is no guarantee it will continue). Nexus already compete anyway, there is a day ticket for Gateshead Central Taxis and Phoenix services (not sure if this is accepted on JH & Weardale).
Besides, not everyone likes the Metro, and direct links are better, so they should be an option. 

We don't need more buses crossing the river, definitely not, but if ticket acceptance was removed, or it was cheaper to use just Nexus services (which it already is) the 82 being extended to Newcastle would make it a good option for passengers to use.

Someone could argue we don't need Eldon Square, buses could terminate at High Level Bridge and passengers could use the Metro to reach Eldon Square from Central Station. 

If the 82 is popular between Gateshead and Birtley, I assume some passengers would use it to and from Newcastle.

(28 Jul 2022, 5:09 pm)MurdnunoC I doubt the management team at JH Coaches will have much of an appetite to compete with GNE after what transpired when they last did tried around 30 years ago. Everything comes down to resource. While the prospect of competition, leading to cheap fares and more choice for passengers, might encapsulate the spirit of deregulation, the reality is that whomever has the most resource, usually the incumbent operator, wins the battle. Sure, there might be a brief period of competitive fares, but things aren't always what they seem. The attractive fares on offer are usually loss-leaders designed to persuade passengers to use their service, and again, it is usually the operator with the most resource and financial backing who is able to offer the lowest fares and absorb the costs. Once the competition is eliminated, all those loses which the winner has absorbed have to be recouped somehow, which means higher fares for passengers in the long run.

Unless the service is offering something truly original or tapping into a market which no-one has exploited, competition on existing routes is probably not a commercially viable prospect. 


BTW, if anyone wants to read about bus competition in the North East, there is a fantastic report commissioned by the, then Monopolies and Mergers Commission (Now the Competitions Commission), available in the reference section of Gateshead Central Library. See link below:

https://prism.librarymanagementcloud.co.uk/gateshead/items/66988?query=the+supply+of+bus+services&resultsUri=items%3Fquery%3Dthe%2Bsupply%2Bof%2Bbus%2Bservices

(28 Jul 2022, 5:24 pm)OrangeArrow49 JH Coaches are competing with GNE, via Nexus. Apparently the 82 is cheaper than equivalent GNE services. I'm not sure what the fares are from Gateshead. Nonetheless it's nice to see independent operators around the region, even if on secured routes only. Perhaps the wrong thread here, but Gateshead Central Taxis seem to be disappearing from much of the region, I'm curious to see if they keep the 84/84A, 335, 342, 516 etc come March. Personally I'd like to see the 84/84A/342 merged and coordinated with the 335. Arriva would be a good operator for these.

(28 Jul 2022, 5:41 pm)MurdnunoC How are JH Coaches competing with GNE via Nexus?

They are being paid to provide a service which Nexus have deemed socially necessary through a tendered bidding process. JH Coaches may have registered the lowest price for that contract, but I suspect they were bidding against a range of operators, not just GNE. As we've seen with other operators in the region recently, the lowest bid isn't always the most sustainable bid, which is why the contract sometimes put back out to tender. Now I'm not suggesting that this is the case with JH Coaches, but I guess we'll soon find out whether their bid was too low if the service is re-tendered and they don't win it.

(28 Jul 2022, 5:43 pm)Dan They’re exploiting gaps in the market in Washington. Just like Stagecoach with the 939.


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(28 Jul 2022, 5:41 pm)MurdnunoC How are JH Coaches competing with GNE via Nexus?

They are being paid to provide a service which Nexus have deemed socially necessary through a tendered bidding process. JH Coaches may have registered the lowest price for that contract, but I suspect they were bidding against a range of operators, not just GNE. As we've seen with other operators in the region recently, the lowest bid isn't always the most sustainable bid, which is why the contract sometimes put back out to tender. Now I'm not suggesting that this is the case with JH Coaches, but I guess we'll soon find out whether their bid was too low if the service is re-tendered and they don't win it.

(28 Jul 2022, 6:21 pm)OrangeArrow49 Competing in the sense it exists alongside GNE alternatives. To go from Gateshead to QE Hospital, Wrekenton and Washington, GNE services exist or passengers can instead use the, apparently cheaper, 82. Options are competition, even if they cost more, someone might prefer them. GNE are probably a better option than JH Coaches, but a return is apparently cheaper and the Nexus day ticket might be valid for travel, I'm not sure, therefore it's competing in a sense.

(28 Jul 2022, 6:31 pm)MurdnunoC So, let's say the service comes up for tender again, and GNE win the contract. Are GNE competing with GNE, via Nexus? The fares structure for that contract is stipulated by Nexus, I believe, so will GNE be a better option than GNE in that scenario?

(25 Jul 2022, 6:46 pm)Jimmi The offerings on the 82 today were E200's:
LK58CPY: https://flic.kr/p/2nAkNEc
LK09EOD: https://flic.kr/p/2nAgPT4

LK09EOD however was later replaced by StreetLite MX61BBU: https://flic.kr/p/2nAogKY

82A had E200 LX13CZG: https://flic.kr/p/2nAkNRj

Meanwhile the 30/31 was allocated StreetLite MX60BXD: https://flic.kr/p/2nAkNG1

(28 Jul 2022, 5:43 pm)Dan They’re exploiting gaps in the market in Washington. Just like Stagecoach with the 939.


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(28 Jul 2022, 6:31 pm)MurdnunoC So, let's say the service comes up for tender again, and GNE win the contract. Are GNE competing with GNE, via Nexus? The fares structure for that contract is stipulated by Nexus, I believe, so will GNE be a better option than GNE in that scenario?

(31 Jul 2022, 6:53 am)Rob44 Is this the case though? I read on intenet the 2.50 is the max fare on a secured service but its still 3.40 to town on the 29?  Or id this cause DCC are subbing it?

(31 Jul 2022, 6:53 am)Rob44 Is this the case though? I read on intenet the 2.50 is the max fare on a secured service but its still 3.40 to town on the 29?  Or id this cause DCC are subbing it?

(31 Jul 2022, 7:01 am)Dan Yes, the 28/29 are Durham County Council contracts and they adopted GNE’s fares.

Nexus minimum cost contracts have fares set by them.


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