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Railways in General

Railways in General

 
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Adrian



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17 Jan 2022, 8:30 pm #108
(17 Jan 2022, 6:25 pm)Andreos1 http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2022...ntractors/

An interesting article, bearing in mind what is going on at Southeastern.

The link is broken in that article to the Go Ahead Report, it appears to relate to: https://gog-11615-s3.s3.eu-west-2.amazon...igital.pdf

It's probably the kind of presentation I'd have expected to see, but there's a few bits that raise an eyebrow for sure:

Page 4 - "With leisure travel gaining an increasing share of the market, rail can also support vital local economic growth by facilitating domestic tourism. A good example of this is the Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) ‘Discover More’ programme which created close regional collaborations by bringing together local MPs, councils, business groups, tourism organisations and specific sector representatives from locations across their network. Designed to spark ideas, collaboration and solutions to boost local economic priorities, the programme established strong, creative working partnerships to attract visitors to key destinations along the route."

I'm pleased to see the recognition of leisure gaining an increasing share of the market, but it makes you wonder why there isn't more put into areas where operators have 100% control, such as their bus operations? Sure, we've seen things like the introduction of the £1 evening fare up here and the X11 that was axed before the advertised season end-date, but largely speaking, its still incredibly difficult to get around post-6pm by public transport, and you might as well not bother on a Sunday. Why aren't those "close regional collaborations" happening in the bus market, and if they are, when do we start seeing some evidence of it? 

Page 5 - "There is little doubt that one of the reasons for the huge passenger growth of recent decades is that train operators have had a degree of freedom to come up with new products and services to attract customers. The new industry structures need to retain an incentive regime that encourages operators to continue to do that. Station retail, for example, has changed significantly in recent years with a much more varied choice of products and services available. You want order a coffee on an app and collect as you jump on the train at Brighton?"

This is complete nonsense and it almost sounds like it's come verbatim out of the mouth of a design consultant. More people aren't travelling on the train because they can order a coffee on an app, that there's a new menu on LNER or to visit a craft beer shop at Brighton station. Its out of necessity. Although a couple of years out of date, this article is a good read: https://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2018/11/...-rail.html

I do agree with the move away from generic shops in rail stations, at least to a mix of independent and national retailers, but I just cannot see anything to support the claim that it is growing patronage on the railways. I'd suggest people use those shops because they're there (and we've all been there!); not because they're going there specifically for them. 

Page 8 talks about Train operations in a net-zero world, and I agree with a lot of it, but I'd argue this isn't an area that the private sector can ever lead in. It needs decisive Government policy and can't be allowed to become another opportunity for operators to make a quick buck. Going back to bus operations, where some of these transport operators do have 100% control, we've already seen a reluctance to invest in zero-emissions unless there's a Government hand-out on the table. 

I found this quote on page 9 to be a bit interesting to say the least - "The private sector provides high-level professional challenge to train operators to help them drive down costs. Private sector owners set exacting targets, and challenge management on a daily basis. They are able, at times, to make tough decisions that can pose political challenges if taken directly by Government." Is this an offer to become private, unaccountable, asset strippers for the Government? Whilst I don't think any of us are daft enough to pretend they don't happen, its surprising to see it suggested that they'll take unaccountable decisions on the Government's behalf.

Of course, we could also talk about the success of 'driving down costs' on the Intercity East Coast Franchise...

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Adrian
17 Jan 2022, 8:30 pm #108

(17 Jan 2022, 6:25 pm)Andreos1 http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2022...ntractors/

An interesting article, bearing in mind what is going on at Southeastern.

The link is broken in that article to the Go Ahead Report, it appears to relate to: https://gog-11615-s3.s3.eu-west-2.amazon...igital.pdf

It's probably the kind of presentation I'd have expected to see, but there's a few bits that raise an eyebrow for sure:

Page 4 - "With leisure travel gaining an increasing share of the market, rail can also support vital local economic growth by facilitating domestic tourism. A good example of this is the Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) ‘Discover More’ programme which created close regional collaborations by bringing together local MPs, councils, business groups, tourism organisations and specific sector representatives from locations across their network. Designed to spark ideas, collaboration and solutions to boost local economic priorities, the programme established strong, creative working partnerships to attract visitors to key destinations along the route."

I'm pleased to see the recognition of leisure gaining an increasing share of the market, but it makes you wonder why there isn't more put into areas where operators have 100% control, such as their bus operations? Sure, we've seen things like the introduction of the £1 evening fare up here and the X11 that was axed before the advertised season end-date, but largely speaking, its still incredibly difficult to get around post-6pm by public transport, and you might as well not bother on a Sunday. Why aren't those "close regional collaborations" happening in the bus market, and if they are, when do we start seeing some evidence of it? 

Page 5 - "There is little doubt that one of the reasons for the huge passenger growth of recent decades is that train operators have had a degree of freedom to come up with new products and services to attract customers. The new industry structures need to retain an incentive regime that encourages operators to continue to do that. Station retail, for example, has changed significantly in recent years with a much more varied choice of products and services available. You want order a coffee on an app and collect as you jump on the train at Brighton?"

This is complete nonsense and it almost sounds like it's come verbatim out of the mouth of a design consultant. More people aren't travelling on the train because they can order a coffee on an app, that there's a new menu on LNER or to visit a craft beer shop at Brighton station. Its out of necessity. Although a couple of years out of date, this article is a good read: https://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2018/11/...-rail.html

I do agree with the move away from generic shops in rail stations, at least to a mix of independent and national retailers, but I just cannot see anything to support the claim that it is growing patronage on the railways. I'd suggest people use those shops because they're there (and we've all been there!); not because they're going there specifically for them. 

Page 8 talks about Train operations in a net-zero world, and I agree with a lot of it, but I'd argue this isn't an area that the private sector can ever lead in. It needs decisive Government policy and can't be allowed to become another opportunity for operators to make a quick buck. Going back to bus operations, where some of these transport operators do have 100% control, we've already seen a reluctance to invest in zero-emissions unless there's a Government hand-out on the table. 

I found this quote on page 9 to be a bit interesting to say the least - "The private sector provides high-level professional challenge to train operators to help them drive down costs. Private sector owners set exacting targets, and challenge management on a daily basis. They are able, at times, to make tough decisions that can pose political challenges if taken directly by Government." Is this an offer to become private, unaccountable, asset strippers for the Government? Whilst I don't think any of us are daft enough to pretend they don't happen, its surprising to see it suggested that they'll take unaccountable decisions on the Government's behalf.

Of course, we could also talk about the success of 'driving down costs' on the Intercity East Coast Franchise...


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Messages In This Thread
Railways in General - by R852 PRG - 24 Jul 2014, 5:21 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Adrian - 25 Jul 2014, 2:17 pm
RE: Railways in General - by R852 PRG - 25 Jul 2014, 2:42 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Tom - 25 Jul 2014, 3:04 pm
RE: Railways in General - by R852 PRG - 25 Jul 2014, 3:08 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Tom - 25 Jul 2014, 3:09 pm
RE: Railways in General - by R852 PRG - 25 Jul 2014, 3:14 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Tom - 25 Jul 2014, 3:16 pm
RE: Railways in General - by R852 PRG - 25 Jul 2014, 3:18 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Dan - 25 Jul 2014, 4:50 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 23 Aug 2014, 10:46 am
RE: Railways in General - by citaro5284 - 11 Sep 2014, 4:56 pm
RE: Railways in General - by BusLoverMum - 24 Sep 2015, 5:51 pm
RE: Railways in General - by northern156 - 24 Sep 2015, 6:43 pm
RE: Railways in General - by BusLoverMum - 24 Sep 2015, 6:45 pm
RE: Railways in General - by NK53 TKT - 24 Sep 2015, 6:48 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 24 Sep 2015, 6:51 pm
RE: Railways in General - by DanPicken - 26 Sep 2015, 9:10 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 16 Dec 2015, 8:26 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 02 Jan 2016, 12:56 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Adrian - 02 Jan 2016, 1:06 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 04 Jan 2016, 7:20 pm
RE: Railways in General - by S813 FVK - 08 Jan 2016, 9:37 pm
RE: Railways in General - by BusLoverMum - 24 Feb 2016, 9:05 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 18 Feb 2016, 8:05 am
RE: Railways in General - by omnicity4659 - 25 Feb 2016, 9:41 am
RE: Railways in General - by Jimmi - 25 Feb 2016, 9:28 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Adrian - 25 Feb 2016, 10:19 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 26 Feb 2016, 8:10 am
RE: Railways in General - by Jimmi - 26 Feb 2016, 11:41 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 03 Aug 2016, 8:37 am
RE: Railways in General - by S813 FVK - 07 Aug 2016, 7:39 pm
RE: Railways in General - by northern156 - 08 Aug 2016, 7:51 pm
RE: Railways in General - by 8222 - 09 Aug 2016, 8:19 am
RE: Railways in General - by northern156 - 09 Aug 2016, 8:39 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 10 Aug 2016, 6:49 am
RE: Railways in General - by NK53 TKT - 10 Aug 2016, 10:06 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 16 Aug 2016, 6:38 am
RE: Railways in General - by northern156 - 16 Aug 2016, 11:06 am
RE: Railways in General - by citaro5284 - 18 Aug 2016, 5:20 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 09 Sep 2016, 6:05 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 13 Oct 2016, 7:35 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 18 Oct 2016, 12:53 pm
RE: Railways in General - by 8222 - 07 Nov 2016, 8:45 pm
RE: Railways in General - by northern156 - 20 Nov 2016, 12:15 am
RE: Railways in General - by James101 - 20 Nov 2016, 12:48 am
RE: Railways in General - by northern156 - 20 Nov 2016, 8:58 am
RE: Railways in General - by James101 - 20 Nov 2016, 10:36 am
RE: Railways in General - by northern156 - 20 Nov 2016, 5:59 pm
RE: Railways in General - by James101 - 20 Nov 2016, 11:21 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 20 Nov 2016, 6:59 pm
RE: Railways in General - by James101 - 20 Nov 2016, 11:30 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Adrian - 20 Nov 2016, 9:31 am
Railways in General - by Jimmi - 12 Nov 2016, 9:29 am
RE: Railways in General - by James101 - 28 Nov 2016, 11:38 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 03 Jan 2017, 8:25 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 14 Jan 2017, 11:39 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 17 Jan 2017, 9:17 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 05 Feb 2017, 1:46 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 12 Jul 2017, 11:27 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 13 Jul 2017, 3:18 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 28 Jul 2017, 2:16 pm
RE: Railways in General - by 8222 - 31 Jul 2017, 9:41 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 14 Aug 2017, 9:47 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 16 Aug 2017, 11:18 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 24 Aug 2017, 8:09 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 25 Sep 2017, 3:07 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 09 Oct 2017, 2:00 pm
RE: Railways in General - by 8222 - 12 Oct 2017, 8:10 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 30 Oct 2017, 10:21 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 29 Nov 2017, 12:58 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 05 Dec 2017, 7:44 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 02 Mar 2018, 10:21 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 01 Apr 2018, 7:58 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 14 Jun 2018, 9:05 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 01 Jan 2019, 9:55 pm
RE: Railways in General - by NewcastleOne - 04 Jan 2019, 1:40 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 04 Jan 2019, 3:11 pm
RE: Railways in General - by NewcastleOne - 04 Jan 2019, 4:13 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 26 Feb 2019, 8:00 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 10 Apr 2019, 8:22 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 30 Apr 2019, 8:03 am
RE: Railways in General - by Michael - 01 May 2019, 6:42 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 23 Jul 2019, 5:09 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 29 Aug 2019, 7:05 pm
RE: Railways in General - by idiot - 29 Aug 2019, 10:47 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Michael - 12 Oct 2019, 10:27 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 12 Oct 2019, 12:07 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Michael - 12 Oct 2019, 12:19 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 16 Oct 2019, 2:51 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 21 Sep 2020, 10:06 am
RE: Railways in General - by Adrian - 21 Sep 2020, 10:38 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 21 Sep 2020, 12:20 pm
RE: Railways in General - by citaro5284 - 18 Oct 2020, 5:24 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 28 Jun 2021, 2:34 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Adrian - 28 Jun 2021, 2:57 pm
RE: Railways in General - by idiot - 02 Jul 2021, 8:40 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Storx - 02 Jul 2021, 11:34 pm
RE: Railways in General - by 54APhotography - 03 Jul 2021, 6:44 am
RE: Railways in General - by Malarkey - 02 Sep 2021, 8:32 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 02 Sep 2021, 8:44 pm
RE: Railways in General - by anvil1984 - 02 Sep 2021, 8:52 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 02 Sep 2021, 9:09 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Ianthegoon - 03 Sep 2021, 7:15 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 03 Sep 2021, 12:04 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Jimmi - 03 Sep 2021, 7:42 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 17 Jan 2022, 6:25 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Adrian - 17 Jan 2022, 8:30 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 03 Mar 2022, 8:02 am
RE: Railways in General - by omnicity4659 - 08 Apr 2022, 9:48 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 04 May 2022, 6:36 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Storx - 04 May 2022, 8:04 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 04 May 2022, 8:57 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Storx - 04 May 2022, 9:17 pm
RE: Railways in General - by 8222 - 04 May 2022, 6:55 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 04 Jul 2022, 1:54 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 27 Jul 2022, 8:23 am
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 29 Sep 2023, 9:10 pm
RE: Railways in General - by 54APhotography - 29 Sep 2023, 9:13 pm
RE: Railways in General - by Andreos1 - 17 Apr 2024, 6:10 pm
RE: Railways in General - by 54APhotography - 17 Apr 2024, 6:13 pm