You said it not us! All Customer Service team, they're great!

No, no - customer services are shite too.

Supervisors in the control room, duty detailers allocating shifts, leading drivers, as well as a whole host of other staff sitting behind the scenes - useless. Sack the lot of ‘em.

None of them will be working hard, working tirelessly to reduce the inconvenience to customers that the current service delivery is causing, stopping back late beyond their hours to get the job done. Nah.[emoji57]


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No, no - customer services are shite too.

Supervisors in the control room, duty detailers allocating shifts, leading drivers, as well as a whole host of other staff sitting behind the scenes - useless. Sack the lot of ‘em.

None of them will be working hard, working tirelessly to reduce the inconvenience to customers that the current service delivery is causing, stopping back late beyond their hours to get the job done. Nah.[emoji57]


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This new Commercial Development Manager, whoever he is, seems like a load of crap as well! Been in the job 3 days and everything's already gone to pot!

This new Commercial Development Manager, whoever he is, seems like a load of crap as well! Been in the job 3 days and everything's already gone to pot!

Oh hell aye, get him sacked.


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No, no - customer services are shite too.

Supervisors in the control room, duty detailers allocating shifts, leading drivers, as well as a whole host of other staff sitting behind the scenes - useless. Sack the lot of ‘em.

None of them will be working hard, working tirelessly to reduce the inconvenience to customers that the current service delivery is causing, stopping back late beyond their hours to get the job done. Nah.[emoji57]


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Whoever allocates vehicles need to go I can tell you that!

Whoever allocates vehicles need to go I can tell you that!

Nah, Ambassador has cleared engineers and said they’re sound.


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Aye, everyone’s shite apart from drivers and engineers.


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you’re part of the problem Dan, sorry you can’t see it 

you can’t defend today.

I mean, at least GNE's customer service isn't just a team of, like, 4 people somewhere in London that know literally nothing about the North East, since that's essentially what Arriva's customer service is like.

you’re part of the problem Dan, sorry you can’t see it 

you can’t defend today.

You clearly don’t realise that people are employed to do specific jobs. Just because service delivery is poor doesn’t mean to say that people in other roles are doing a bad job, or aren’t trying. You’re criticising people who aren’t of a position to change things to combat the issues with service delivery.

I normally agree with most of your comments, but you’re just making yourself look like an even bigger cock by having a vendetta against everyone who isn’t a driver or engineer. Feel free to carry on though - sorry you can’t see it.


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I mean, at least GNE's customer service isn't just a team of, like, 4 people somewhere in London  that know literally nothing about the North East, since that's essentially what Arriva's customer service is like.

Isn't it just a team of 2 for GNE these days?

And isn't Arriva's CS based in Sunderland? I'm sure last time I spoke to them I got someone with a funny accent

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You clearly don’t realise that people are employed to do specific jobs. Just because service delivery is poor doesn’t mean to say that people in other roles are doing a bad job, or aren’t trying. You’re criticising people who aren’t of a position to change things to combat the issues with service delivery.

I normally agree with most of your comments, but you’re just making yourself look like an even bigger cock by having a vendetta against everyone who isn’t a driver or engineer. Feel free to carry on though - sorry you can’t see it.


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He's probably the type of guy that shouts at the staff in Tesco because they've ran out of Corn Flakes

You clearly don’t realise that people are employed to do specific jobs. Just because service delivery is poor doesn’t mean to say that people in other roles are doing a bad job, or aren’t trying. You’re criticising people who aren’t of a position to change things to combat the issues with service delivery.

I normally agree with most of your comments, but you’re just making yourself look like an even bigger cock by having a vendetta against everyone who isn’t a driver or engineer. Feel free to carry on though - sorry you can’t see it.


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nice deflection Dan. You knew exactly what I meant, that was targeted at management and not Barbara in customer service but still….

Isn't it just a team of 2 for GNE these days?

And isn't Arriva's CS based in Sunderland? I'm sure last time I spoke to them I got someone with a funny accent

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He's probably the type of guy that shouts at the staff in Tesco because they've ran out of Corn Flakes

oh dear Streetdeckfan…what a sellout, expected more.

oh dear Streetdeckfan…what a sellout, expected more.

Did you really though? You should know by now that I love nothing more than stirring the pot!

Isn't it just a team of 2 for GNE these days?

And isn't Arriva's CS based in Sunderland? I'm sure last time I spoke to them I got someone with a funny accent

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He's probably the type of guy that shouts at the staff in Tesco because they've ran out of Corn Flakes

No, Arriva CS is based in Luton


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No, Arriva CS is based in Luton


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So what's the office at Doxford Park for?

There are many ways to improve buy in and loyalty beyond pay.
If pay is a motivating factor, then look at it and do something about it.
Ditto rotas, planning, routes, management, rewards, incentives, on-board driver monitoring, micro-management and many other things beyond fancy slogans and depot meetings that promise lots, but deliver little.
Ultimately, they need to value the people that keep the company alive.
Without them, it sinks.

I don't think there's an all singing, all dancing solution which will fix this problem overnight.
It's far too gone for that.

There are, and I'm sure a couple of us could give them and other bus operators a shopping list of how to improve things and get things right, but we both know they don't come without a cost. 

Without sounding like a broken record, but buses in England are completely broken. The sooner operators admit this instead of continuing on with life support, the better. At least then it forces the Government's hand, similar to what they've had to do with some rail franchises. For me there's very little money left in the vast majority of routes. We've already seen massive axe swinging from Go North East and it's inevitably coming from the other two, because the Govt are tightening the purse-strings on the central handouts. 

That said, regulation through franchising isn't an easy win here. It still involves people working for a private operator, and like they have done for decades and since national bargaining went out the window, they'll continue to drive down pay and conditions. For me, it's key that if franchising does come in, there's a standard rate of pay and terms across the board, proper workplace pensions are reinstated and the local authorities start to work with the Trade Unions immediately on how to dramatically improve the working conditions for all workers. Maybe then we'll be heading in the right direction of fixing the retention problems.

From an ex drivers point of view, I left just over 6 months ago, opting for life as an HGV driver. 10 years I spent at GNE, Crook, CLS and finally Stanley/Consett. I loved the job but the politics of it were ridiculous, the final push to get out came after being "awarded" with a 6 month personal coaching plan (PCP) for hitting the trigger points. These trigger points being off more than 1 week more than once over a year long period. Harsh I thought seeing as those periods of absence were for 1, catching covid 2, Death of a family member and finally 3 a heart condition, but hey trigger points. Add to that the daily abuse recieved from those not happy about the bus infront not running, over 18s not getting the child fare, it all added up. Stressed coming in from work every day/Night.

Since leaving the buses, stress is no more, work/life balance is so much better. Still friends with those on the buses and it's the same talk of " the jobs sh@@ ", pay needs to go up massively but years of " we can't afford x% " are now paying off and drivers like me that have left and others that are waiting to go through their class 2 or 1 and get away.

In 16 years as a union rep, I've never heard of such an archaic way of managing sickness. If anything like this exists elsewhere in the industry, then no wonder we've got the problems we have.

If it wasn't bad enough punishing you for catching COVID; something that most reasonable employers took a stance of not counting as sickness, and something that would have been RIDDOR reportable if the Tories hadn't quickly added an exclusion, then it's beyond reproach that an employer would think it's reasonable to target someone for suffering a bereavement. I'm actually lost for words.

I'm pleased you've managed to find a role outside of the bus industry that you get a better work/life balance and job satisfaction from.

Tbh, it's no different from when they closed Crook and all the CLS drivers were constantly going the wrong way because of the lack of route learning. Although in this case I would think they'd just allocate CLS drivers to the X21 who know the route!

I'm not usually one to blindly defend GNE, but I think it may be wise to give them a few days to get things sorted
If you're expecting them to transfer an entire depot 10-15 miles overnight and there not to be issues the next day, then you're completely deluded!

I don't always agree with you, but I think in terms of route learning, you can only teach someone a route a limited amount of time in advance of them doing it. There's no point in doing it 3 months prior to the move, because most drivers will have forgotten it having not driven it for the 3 months that follow.

You can only lead a horse to water too. I know if I'm working on something I'm unfamiliar with, I make it my business to work out what I need to be doing. As above though, when you have the morale issues that exist in the bus industry, you're not going to get that same level of buy-in of people wanting to go over and above... after all, it's the operator's responsibility to roster a service with drivers that know the route.

I think we all knew today had the potential of being a disaster but today has been spectacular! We knew the switch was coming but there’s been apparent zero prep to absolute chaos

Maybe GNE need to stop playing with marketing and gimmicks and let some professionals come in and run the business because the current lot have failed beyond belief. The Durham Road corridor and kibblesworth has been abandoned today.

For all the failings of Arriva and Stagecoach, at their worst day they are a million times better than GNE and aside drivers and engineers I’d be utterly embarrassed to claim to be a employee

Excuse after excuse.,perhaps GNE can look inward and work out the problem is perhaps them

I got back to Eldon Square about 20 to 7 tonight and I couldn't believe how busy it was. Match day traffic has usually died down a bit by then, but it was absolute chaos. 

The X1 on Stand E was queued all the way back to the doors at the top of the Bus Station (near Stand A) when I got there. There were well over 100 queued waiting. In addition to that, you had long queues forming on the 21/X21 stands down the bottom.

I had a bit scout on bustimes at the time, and I could see there was nothing at the Newcastle end heading South. It looks like the 17.34 went out late at 17.42, the 17.49 went out slightly late, but then absolutely nothing until the 18.45 - on a 15 minute frequency, which we were told was cut to 'improve reliability'.

The 18.45 pulled in slightly late and went out full to standing, leaving myself and around 30 others standing. You then had the domino effect, because by the time the 19.05 had pulled in, there were about 50-60 waiting. We were full to standing by the time we left Gateshead Interchange.

I'm actually pleased I got on the 19.05, because looking at bustimes, there was another 50 minute gap after that until the 19.55.
 
Another Saturday/match day. Another shambles. I wonder if this is the desire that everyone's favourite designer constantly refers to creating?

I don't always agree with you, but I think in terms of route learning, you can only teach someone a route a limited amount of time in advance of them doing it. There's no point in doing it 3 months prior to the move, because most drivers will have forgotten it having not driven it for the 3 months that follow.

You can only lead a horse to water too. I know if I'm working on something I'm unfamiliar with, I make it my business to work out what I need to be doing. As above though, when you have the morale issues that exist in the bus industry, you're not going to get that same level of buy-in of people wanting to go over and above... after all, it's the operator's responsibility to roster a service with drivers that know the route.

I know when Crook was closed and the X21 was transferred to CLS, I did see drivers a few times sitting upstairs at the front taking notes. Not sure whether this was a thing they were doing in their own time as they were wearing their uniform, or whether it was a part of the route learning by GNE, but it seemed like a pretty good idea to me.

I often wonder, when drivers are learning the route, are they told alternative ways like if a road is closed, or if they make a wrong turn how to get back on to the route?

I know when Crook was closed and the X21 was transferred to CLS, I did see drivers a few times sitting upstairs at the front taking notes. Not sure whether this was a thing they were doing in their own time as they were wearing their uniform, or whether it was a part of the route learning by GNE, but it seemed like a pretty good idea to me.

I often wonder, when drivers are learning the route, are they told alternative ways like if a road is closed, or if they make a wrong turn how to get back on to the route?

Also running dead I noticed the X20 drivers some go via Durham whereas some go via washington.

Do they learn these dead runs or do they need to learn them in their private time.

Isn't it just a team of 2 for GNE these days?

And isn't Arriva's CS based in Sunderland? I'm sure last time I spoke to them I got someone with a funny accent

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He's probably the type of guy that shouts at the staff in Tesco because they've ran out of Corn Flakes 

Nah, thats what a certain insider does at Sainsburys.


The irony being, the same insider also complains about cancelled trains.
Guessing they don't complain about those cancelled buses of theirs though.

Also running dead I noticed the X20 drivers some go via Durham whereas some go via washington.

Do they learn these dead runs or do they need to learn them in their private time.

I don't think there's a set route for dead runs is there? 
I know with the X21 some drivers would go via the A167 while others would go down the A1.

Do they learn these dead runs or do they need to learn them in their private time.

Think some companies provide routes to follow, others give them a time to do it in. 

Realistically though, the driver can have a look on Google beforehand if they're struggling - and if they get lost on the way it's not as if they have passengers on, can just pull over and check Google.

I don't think there's a set route for dead runs is there? 
I know with the X21 some drivers would go via the A167 while others would go down the A1.

no, however how do drivers learn Dead runs, if there are dead runs from such places as South Sheilds & Hexham going via 27/10 would take ages

So do they just need to know where to join and turn off of the A69 and Leam lane etc

no, however how do drivers learn Dead runs, if there are dead runs from such places as South Sheilds & Hexham going via 27/10 would take ages

So do they just need to know where to join and turn off of the A69 and Leam lane etc

If you had to drive somewhere, how would you know which route to take?

If you had to drive somewhere, how would you know which route to take?

I need to consult with management before getting in my car to drive to the shops.

I may get lost on my trip to Tesco and then what would I do? I'd have no option but to blame management for their lack of babysitting on my journey. I certainly couldn't just check Google.

I need to consult with management before getting in my car to drive to the shops.

I may get lost on my trip to Tesco and then what would I do? I'd have no option but to blame management for their lack of babysitting on my journey. I certainly couldn't just check Google.

I just don't see how you should rely on drivers to do after work research on running buses dead to and from places. 

Especially with roads with weight/road restrictions I know the usual 10A dead run avoids a road which I assume is deemed to be usafe for buses however would Riverside Depot inform them of this..

I just don't see how you should rely on drivers to do after work research on running buses dead to and from places. 

Especially with roads with weight/road restrictions I know the usual 10A dead run avoids a road which I assume is deemed to be usafe for buses however would Riverside Depot inform them of this..

Sorry, but isn't that their job?

I just don't see how you should rely on drivers to do after work research on running buses dead to and from places. 

Especially with roads with weight/road restrictions I know the usual 10A dead run avoids a road which I assume is deemed to be usafe for buses however would Riverside Depot inform them of this..

Research? It takes all of a couple of minutes to work out the easiest way from A to B using Google Maps, as others have mentioned, or even an A to Z.

If you can't plan to get from A to B or read road signs as a professional driver, you're really in the wrong job.

I wonder how many CLS drivers actually like the X21, X21 & 21 moving to gateshead will definitely add some life into the rota

Some of them will have spent periods of years driving just the 21, so with jadedness to account for, it probably doesn't make much difference to them. The 21 is a straightforward route which gets heavy footfall, so a duty of 21s, while appearing repetitive, might feel busy enough to pass quickly. The X21 is more of a run out in comparison. Prior to the rotas being amalgamated in 2014, there were two driving units which covered the work at Chester. I recall most depots had the same principle in their allocation of work; at Stanley, for example, in the same sort of time period, the services which passed through Stanley (8/78, 43/44, X30/X31) formed unit 1, while those which passed through Consett (15/15A, 45/46, X70/X71) were unit 2, with the Venture minibus network being its own thing based at Consett. An easy way to learn find out driving unit covered a route back in the day was to check the duty number on the ticket - if the duty was 1xx, it was unit 1; if it was 2xx, it was unit 2. With rotas being mostly amalgamated at all depots, duty numbers in today's money do not mean the same thing; 1xx is typically an early, 2xx a middle and 3xx a late.

Although some routes changed rotas over the years, by the time the rotas were combined, unit 1 consisted of the 21, the X25 and the 71, while unit 2 was the 8/78 (then with a combined PVR of thirteen, seven of which were at Chester and six of which were at Stanley), 28/28A, 34/34A, the 50 and the 13/14, which was facilitated with remote changeovers (at Sacriston, if I recall). When the X22 still went around the world through Lumley, Rainton and Carrville between Durham and Chester, this had its own rota (mostly old timers) which was mixed with duties which consisted otherwise of solely 21s. When the X22 was later altered in October 2013 so that it essentially followed the 21/X21 route between Chester and Durham, it became part of unit 2 and interworked with the Langley Parks at Durham to remove the need for remote changeovers. I know that, at least at one point, the 4-day rota on unit 1 consisted of only 21s.

When they still had the two separate units, there was little correlation between length of service and driving unit allocation; although newly qualified drivers would always go onto unit 2, an experienced licence-holder might have been asked to go onto unit 1. I suspect, especially with tenured drivers, it was a matter of personal preference. Of the long-serving drivers at Chester who remained at closure, I recall most of them being on unit 1 in the time I am recollecting, but a good few were on unit 2. It must be strange for those who have moved to anywhere but Riverside to think that they might never drive the 21 again after years of driving it and its predecessors.

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I don't think there's a set route for dead runs is there? 
I know with the X21 some drivers would go via the A167 while others would go down the A1.

no, however how do drivers learn Dead runs, if there are dead runs from such places as South Sheilds & Hexham going via 27/10 would take ages

So do they just need to know where to join and turn off of the A69 and Leam lane etc

Duty boards which involve a period of dead running (the majority of which do) detail the most efficient route to be taken for running light as well as the time in which dead runs are expected to be completed.

Anyone know the email address for the equivalent of nexus in Durham? Was just getting warmed up on the jd before I realise my last bus of the day was leaving at 720pm. I know I shouldnt moan but I'm am paying twice for this "service"

Anyone know the email address for the equivalent of nexus in Durham? Was just getting warmed up on the jd before I realise my last bus of the day was leaving at 720pm. I know I shouldnt moan but I'm am paying twice for this "service"

https://www.durham.gov.uk/complaints - There's no transport body in Durham.

https://www.durham.gov.uk/complaints - There's no transport body in Durham.

Many thanks