Politics (and other political stuff)
Politics (and other political stuff)
(02 May 2021, 6:14 pm)Andreos1 https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_f...1077302185&id=102727174969910
Turns out buses are a hot topic in local politics.
(02 May 2021, 6:14 pm)Andreos1 https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_f...1077302185&id=102727174969910
Turns out buses are a hot topic in local politics.
(04 May 2021, 12:21 pm)Andreos1 Not just locally it seems.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-56827739.amp
I really wish the 'I'm alright Jack' mentality would stop and people stood back, realising what goes on and not just in rural areas.
It happens in suburban areas too and it needs addressing. Quickly.
(04 May 2021, 12:21 pm)Andreos1 Not just locally it seems.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-56827739.amp
I really wish the 'I'm alright Jack' mentality would stop and people stood back, realising what goes on and not just in rural areas.
It happens in suburban areas too and it needs addressing. Quickly.
(04 May 2021, 4:47 pm)busmanT They always use some very odd examples to make their case!
Bishop's Castle has a population of less than 2,000 and is never going to receive frequent bus services - it never has.
Burton Green is a commuter village in Warwickshire. The village consists of about 263 homes and has a resident population of 643 - it will never have frequent bus services either.
(04 May 2021, 4:47 pm)busmanT They always use some very odd examples to make their case!
Bishop's Castle has a population of less than 2,000 and is never going to receive frequent bus services - it never has.
Burton Green is a commuter village in Warwickshire. The village consists of about 263 homes and has a resident population of 643 - it will never have frequent bus services either.
(04 May 2021, 9:31 pm)Andreos1 Interesting comments.
A shame you feel that these people and their communities don't deserve a frequent bus service.
What are your thoughts on an in-frequent service?
Do they deserve one of those?
(04 May 2021, 9:31 pm)Andreos1 Interesting comments.
A shame you feel that these people and their communities don't deserve a frequent bus service.
What are your thoughts on an in-frequent service?
Do they deserve one of those?
(05 May 2021, 3:45 pm)busmanT There is clearly never going to be a 15 minute headway daytime, and evening and Sunday, service in these areas - apart from the cost, there simply won't be the demand. It's not a question of feeling or deserving.
One hopes that under Bus Back Better Local Authorities will have to maintain a minimum level of bus service in each town/village etc. based on set criteria - population might be one criteria, access to health facilities might be another, car ownership levels perhaps included.
(05 May 2021, 3:45 pm)busmanT There is clearly never going to be a 15 minute headway daytime, and evening and Sunday, service in these areas - apart from the cost, there simply won't be the demand. It's not a question of feeling or deserving.
One hopes that under Bus Back Better Local Authorities will have to maintain a minimum level of bus service in each town/village etc. based on set criteria - population might be one criteria, access to health facilities might be another, car ownership levels perhaps included.
(07 May 2021, 9:32 am)Rob44 Bad day for Labour in Hartlepool. I do have to chuckle at the reason some people give for voting tory. Not enough police cells. Reducing the NHS . Cant get gp or dentist. HMMM you'd think it was labour who had been in power for the last 10 years!
(07 May 2021, 9:32 am)Rob44 Bad day for Labour in Hartlepool. I do have to chuckle at the reason some people give for voting tory. Not enough police cells. Reducing the NHS . Cant get gp or dentist. HMMM you'd think it was labour who had been in power for the last 10 years!
(07 May 2021, 10:41 am)Andreos1 Bonkers isn't it?
Like turkeys voting for Christmas.
(07 May 2021, 10:41 am)Andreos1 Bonkers isn't it?
Like turkeys voting for Christmas.
(07 May 2021, 10:41 am)Andreos1 Bonkers isn't it?
Like turkeys voting for Christmas.
(07 May 2021, 10:41 am)Andreos1 Bonkers isn't it?
Like turkeys voting for Christmas.
Although Labour have lost the Hartlepool seat and missed out on the Tees Valley Mayor, they have held Tyne & Wear councils and the North Tyneside Mayor.
As well as the Conservatives, the Greens have made gains. The SNP could gain 1 or 2 seats, the 2nd net gain would give them an outright majority in the Scottish Parliament.
(08 May 2021, 12:12 am)mb134 No sympathy for any of them. Any sort of independent thinking or reading would tell folk that voting for this current Conservative party is a mistake - yet here we are.
Equally, the very left of the Labour party need to get some perspective. Hartlepool would have been Tory in 2019 if not for UKIP splitting the vote. Corbyn was never going to be accepted by the general population in a third GE given his performance in the previous two against *shocking* opposition, and its about time people realised that.
The current political landscape of those on the far left/right constantly shouting the loudest is getting rather tiresome, to the point I - and many people I know - are getting more disinterested in politics by the day. The lack of any sort of nuance, critical thinking, or educated opinion makes any sort of discourse beyond laborious.
(08 May 2021, 12:12 am)mb134 No sympathy for any of them. Any sort of independent thinking or reading would tell folk that voting for this current Conservative party is a mistake - yet here we are.
Equally, the very left of the Labour party need to get some perspective. Hartlepool would have been Tory in 2019 if not for UKIP splitting the vote. Corbyn was never going to be accepted by the general population in a third GE given his performance in the previous two against *shocking* opposition, and its about time people realised that.
The current political landscape of those on the far left/right constantly shouting the loudest is getting rather tiresome, to the point I - and many people I know - are getting more disinterested in politics by the day. The lack of any sort of nuance, critical thinking, or educated opinion makes any sort of discourse beyond laborious.
(08 May 2021, 12:12 am)mb134 No sympathy for any of them. Any sort of independent thinking or reading would tell folk that voting for this current Conservative party is a mistake - yet here we are.
Equally, the very left of the Labour party need to get some perspective. Hartlepool would have been Tory in 2019 if not for UKIP splitting the vote. Corbyn was never going to be accepted by the general population in a third GE given his performance in the previous two against *shocking* opposition, and its about time people realised that.
The current political landscape of those on the far left/right constantly shouting the loudest is getting rather tiresome, to the point I - and many people I know - are getting more disinterested in politics by the day. The lack of any sort of nuance, critical thinking, or educated opinion makes any sort of discourse beyond laborious.
(08 May 2021, 12:12 am)mb134 No sympathy for any of them. Any sort of independent thinking or reading would tell folk that voting for this current Conservative party is a mistake - yet here we are.
Equally, the very left of the Labour party need to get some perspective. Hartlepool would have been Tory in 2019 if not for UKIP splitting the vote. Corbyn was never going to be accepted by the general population in a third GE given his performance in the previous two against *shocking* opposition, and its about time people realised that.
The current political landscape of those on the far left/right constantly shouting the loudest is getting rather tiresome, to the point I - and many people I know - are getting more disinterested in politics by the day. The lack of any sort of nuance, critical thinking, or educated opinion makes any sort of discourse beyond laborious.
(08 May 2021, 2:08 pm)Metroline1511 Although Labour have lost the Hartlepool seat and missed out on the Tees Valley Mayor, they have held Tyne & Wear councils and the North Tyneside Mayor.
As well as the Conservatives, the Greens have made gains. The SNP could gain 1 or 2 seats, the 2nd net gain would give them an outright majority in the Scottish Parliament.
(08 May 2021, 2:08 pm)Metroline1511 Although Labour have lost the Hartlepool seat and missed out on the Tees Valley Mayor, they have held Tyne & Wear councils and the North Tyneside Mayor.
As well as the Conservatives, the Greens have made gains. The SNP could gain 1 or 2 seats, the 2nd net gain would give them an outright majority in the Scottish Parliament.
I can't see most of the Durham City libdems siding with Labour.
(08 May 2021, 11:55 pm)BusLoverMum I can't see most of the Durham City libdems siding with Labour.No, I can't either, but I'd give the other option 18 months before it implodes... and that is being generous.
(08 May 2021, 11:58 pm)Adrian No, I can't either, but I'd give the other option 18 months before it implodes... and that is being generous.Interesting times.
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(08 May 2021, 11:58 pm)Adrian No, I can't either, but I'd give the other option 18 months before it implodes... and that is being generous.Interesting times.
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
(08 May 2021, 10:22 pm)Adrian Its quite easy to play the blame game with Corbyn, but the Labour results since 1997 follow a downward trend. 2017 was the exception, where the Party gained a vote share similar to that which resulted in a comfortable majority in 2001.
To blame the 'very left' of the Labour Party is quite naïve. Labour started to lose the Midlands, Wales, Scotland and the North East again from 2005. Further losses in 2010, followed by 40 seats lost in Scotland in 2015 (thanks largely to the decision to side with the Tories in the indyref vote), although others picked up due to the Liberal Democrat vote collapsing.
In the North East in particular, and in working class people’s minds, Labour is associated with either facilitating it or not fighting the deindustrialisation and almost abandonment of the region. Its why Ben Houchen for example has faired so well in the Tees Valley; because people feel that he is delivering things that they want and that they deserve. Labour had the opportunity to do that since 1997, but largely failed to deliver. It's also why the Labour Party's opposition to (or stance on) Brexit was disastrous, with the 2019 results reflecting that. People felt that something they wanted (and needed) was being taken away against their will.
(08 May 2021, 10:22 pm)Adrian Its quite easy to play the blame game with Corbyn, but the Labour results since 1997 follow a downward trend. 2017 was the exception, where the Party gained a vote share similar to that which resulted in a comfortable majority in 2001.
To blame the 'very left' of the Labour Party is quite naïve. Labour started to lose the Midlands, Wales, Scotland and the North East again from 2005. Further losses in 2010, followed by 40 seats lost in Scotland in 2015 (thanks largely to the decision to side with the Tories in the indyref vote), although others picked up due to the Liberal Democrat vote collapsing.
In the North East in particular, and in working class people’s minds, Labour is associated with either facilitating it or not fighting the deindustrialisation and almost abandonment of the region. Its why Ben Houchen for example has faired so well in the Tees Valley; because people feel that he is delivering things that they want and that they deserve. Labour had the opportunity to do that since 1997, but largely failed to deliver. It's also why the Labour Party's opposition to (or stance on) Brexit was disastrous, with the 2019 results reflecting that. People felt that something they wanted (and needed) was being taken away against their will.
(08 May 2021, 10:22 pm)Adrian Its quite easy to play the blame game with Corbyn, but the Labour results since 1997 follow a downward trend. 2017 was the exception, where the Party gained a vote share similar to that which resulted in a comfortable majority in 2001.Where Tony Blair did Labour a dis-service was that, although he said he would never be complacent, in practice he assumed safe Labour areas were already won and all he had to do was appeal to his target areas, mainly then Tory marginals. This started to show during his 1st term with low turnouts in the European elections of 1999 and Tottenham by-election of 2000. His belief that Labour voters in apparently safe Labour areas had nowhere else to go bred a lot of voter apathy and disillusion. So much so, that in his 2001 landslide Labour got fewer votes than in 1992 when Neil Kinnock did not win for Labour. Furthermore, in marginal seats they often got more votes than in "safe" Labour seats. So for example they got more votes in Harrow seats than Liverpool ones.
To blame the 'very left' of the Labour Party is quite naïve. Labour started to lose the Midlands, Wales, Scotland and the North East again from 2005. Further losses in 2010, followed by 40 seats lost in Scotland in 2015 (thanks largely to the decision to side with the Tories in the indyref vote), although others picked up due to the Liberal Democrat vote collapsing.
In the North East in particular, and in working class people’s minds, Labour is associated with either facilitating it or not fighting the deindustrialisation and almost abandonment of the region. Its why Ben Houchen for example has faired so well in the Tees Valley; because people feel that he is delivering things that they want and that they deserve. Labour had the opportunity to do that since 1997, but largely failed to deliver. It's also why the Labour Party's opposition to (or stance on) Brexit was disastrous, with the 2019 results reflecting that. People felt that something they wanted (and needed) was being taken away against their will.
(08 May 2021, 10:28 pm)Adrian Though they have lost control of Durham County Council.Yes, County Durham has been a high-profile loss, being the first time since 1925. Mind you, Labour had more of a drubbing than average in the area in 2019, where they lost Durham North West, Sedgefield and Bishop Auckland. Labour also lost Darlington in 2019, which admittedly is now a Unitary authority so not part of Durham County Council.
53 LAB, 23 CON, 17 LD, 5 DI, 23 IND, 1 GRN, 4 NEP, with 64 required for a majority.
So you're looking at either:
a) LAB/LD majority of 7 (potentially 8 with the Green)
b) CON/LD/IND/DI majority of 5
c) CON/LD/IND/DI/NEP majority of 9
It's going to be an interesting couple of days, as the 'independents' are an extremely diverse range of councillors. You might end up with something like a CON/LD/DI minority including a couple of the independents, but also with a confidence and supply arrangement with the others.
Another big question for Durham is the new County Hall HQ development in Durham City. All previous opposition parties were vehemently opposed to the redevelopment and move 'in the current climate'. Its already well under construction, but I think their electorate would expect them to pull the plug on it now and lease the building to a 3rd Party instead.
(08 May 2021, 10:22 pm)Adrian Its quite easy to play the blame game with Corbyn, but the Labour results since 1997 follow a downward trend. 2017 was the exception, where the Party gained a vote share similar to that which resulted in a comfortable majority in 2001.Where Tony Blair did Labour a dis-service was that, although he said he would never be complacent, in practice he assumed safe Labour areas were already won and all he had to do was appeal to his target areas, mainly then Tory marginals. This started to show during his 1st term with low turnouts in the European elections of 1999 and Tottenham by-election of 2000. His belief that Labour voters in apparently safe Labour areas had nowhere else to go bred a lot of voter apathy and disillusion. So much so, that in his 2001 landslide Labour got fewer votes than in 1992 when Neil Kinnock did not win for Labour. Furthermore, in marginal seats they often got more votes than in "safe" Labour seats. So for example they got more votes in Harrow seats than Liverpool ones.
To blame the 'very left' of the Labour Party is quite naïve. Labour started to lose the Midlands, Wales, Scotland and the North East again from 2005. Further losses in 2010, followed by 40 seats lost in Scotland in 2015 (thanks largely to the decision to side with the Tories in the indyref vote), although others picked up due to the Liberal Democrat vote collapsing.
In the North East in particular, and in working class people’s minds, Labour is associated with either facilitating it or not fighting the deindustrialisation and almost abandonment of the region. Its why Ben Houchen for example has faired so well in the Tees Valley; because people feel that he is delivering things that they want and that they deserve. Labour had the opportunity to do that since 1997, but largely failed to deliver. It's also why the Labour Party's opposition to (or stance on) Brexit was disastrous, with the 2019 results reflecting that. People felt that something they wanted (and needed) was being taken away against their will.
(08 May 2021, 10:28 pm)Adrian Though they have lost control of Durham County Council.Yes, County Durham has been a high-profile loss, being the first time since 1925. Mind you, Labour had more of a drubbing than average in the area in 2019, where they lost Durham North West, Sedgefield and Bishop Auckland. Labour also lost Darlington in 2019, which admittedly is now a Unitary authority so not part of Durham County Council.
53 LAB, 23 CON, 17 LD, 5 DI, 23 IND, 1 GRN, 4 NEP, with 64 required for a majority.
So you're looking at either:
a) LAB/LD majority of 7 (potentially 8 with the Green)
b) CON/LD/IND/DI majority of 5
c) CON/LD/IND/DI/NEP majority of 9
It's going to be an interesting couple of days, as the 'independents' are an extremely diverse range of councillors. You might end up with something like a CON/LD/DI minority including a couple of the independents, but also with a confidence and supply arrangement with the others.
Another big question for Durham is the new County Hall HQ development in Durham City. All previous opposition parties were vehemently opposed to the redevelopment and move 'in the current climate'. Its already well under construction, but I think their electorate would expect them to pull the plug on it now and lease the building to a 3rd Party instead.
(09 May 2021, 1:39 am)mb134 In terms of capturing the youth, Corbyn was fine. In terms of capturing the general population, many of whom read the Daily Heil and the Scum on a regular basis, he was never going to have the platform to win. I don't believe the general public would vote for a very left wing set of policies straight from a hard right Tory regime, I think that would only work if you had a more centre-left government in place first (i.e I think it could have worked straight after Brown, if the financial crash hadn't happened, but it's a field day for the right-wing press when under a Tory government).
I'm not blaming them, simply stating that they need to have perspective. The Corbyn experiment, which may I add I supported for a few years, is over and the party needed to unite and move forward. On the 2005 point, the party had been in power for 7 years and had taken us to a war which many opposed - vote share was bound to drop. Ditto 2010 and the financial crash (not Labour's fault as we know, but the press will be the press).
The party as a whole need to figure out what they are, and actually convey that to the general public. This Tory government are a bunch of charlatans, I'd take Thatcher in a heartbeat over this lot, and I find it astounding that there's no clear strategy to combat it - just jumping from one thing to the next without any real structure which makes sense to anyone who doesn't religiously follow politics.
(09 May 2021, 1:39 am)mb134 In terms of capturing the youth, Corbyn was fine. In terms of capturing the general population, many of whom read the Daily Heil and the Scum on a regular basis, he was never going to have the platform to win. I don't believe the general public would vote for a very left wing set of policies straight from a hard right Tory regime, I think that would only work if you had a more centre-left government in place first (i.e I think it could have worked straight after Brown, if the financial crash hadn't happened, but it's a field day for the right-wing press when under a Tory government).
I'm not blaming them, simply stating that they need to have perspective. The Corbyn experiment, which may I add I supported for a few years, is over and the party needed to unite and move forward. On the 2005 point, the party had been in power for 7 years and had taken us to a war which many opposed - vote share was bound to drop. Ditto 2010 and the financial crash (not Labour's fault as we know, but the press will be the press).
The party as a whole need to figure out what they are, and actually convey that to the general public. This Tory government are a bunch of charlatans, I'd take Thatcher in a heartbeat over this lot, and I find it astounding that there's no clear strategy to combat it - just jumping from one thing to the next without any real structure which makes sense to anyone who doesn't religiously follow politics.
