Stockton-on-Tees Public Transport Forum
Stockton-on-Tees Public Transport Forum
(23 Nov 2014, 10:14 am)Adrian It seems a really good forum actually. Structured and organised, with minutes being published. It's a shame no one else (to my knowledge!) do this.
(23 Nov 2014, 10:14 am)Adrian It seems a really good forum actually. Structured and organised, with minutes being published. It's a shame no one else (to my knowledge!) do this.
(11 Jun 2016, 12:38 pm)Cock Robin Exactly. Just noticed this thread and seen the negative comments. At least Stockton Council bother organizing one which is more than the other Tees Valley districts do. And always gets a good attendance. Having said that they can't do much constructive regarding the bus services as they just say they've got no money.
Today's was a bit of a farce however, with the operators sat in one room and the public in another, and the Stockton Council bloke attempting to type questions onto Twitter in less than so many digits. Seemed a bit of a cop out for the operators who weren't put on the spot as at previous forums.
(11 Jun 2016, 12:38 pm)Cock Robin Exactly. Just noticed this thread and seen the negative comments. At least Stockton Council bother organizing one which is more than the other Tees Valley districts do. And always gets a good attendance. Having said that they can't do much constructive regarding the bus services as they just say they've got no money.
Today's was a bit of a farce however, with the operators sat in one room and the public in another, and the Stockton Council bloke attempting to type questions onto Twitter in less than so many digits. Seemed a bit of a cop out for the operators who weren't put on the spot as at previous forums.
I don't think there's any issue with gender, plenty of women there. Think that was the idea of the Twitter to try to get the younger element in, but they said it was an experiment, and looks like however successful it was the idea was to have alternate meetings at least of the traditional format.
(11 Jun 2016, 12:45 pm)Adrian That seems a bit of a strange 'layout', if you like? I've not known many public meetings where the 'top table' are segregated from the public. I hope it reverts for the next meeting.
I agree. I was sceptical when I'd first heard of the forum (see above), but it does appear to be a good setup. I can't see why more councils aren't doing it, especially when they have the operator buy-in at Stockton.
My only criticism is the age demographic that Tony mentioned for today's meeting. I'd hope that it's a one off, and that most meetings are representative of public transport users. Not just by age, but by gender as well.
(11 Jun 2016, 12:45 pm)Adrian That seems a bit of a strange 'layout', if you like? I've not known many public meetings where the 'top table' are segregated from the public. I hope it reverts for the next meeting.
I agree. I was sceptical when I'd first heard of the forum (see above), but it does appear to be a good setup. I can't see why more councils aren't doing it, especially when they have the operator buy-in at Stockton.
My only criticism is the age demographic that Tony mentioned for today's meeting. I'd hope that it's a one off, and that most meetings are representative of public transport users. Not just by age, but by gender as well.
Rather than create a new thread, I thought it worthwhile adding to this existing one
https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/consultations/
Details of the TVCA draft strategic transport plan and dates of consultation events.
Rather than create a new thread, I thought it worthwhile adding to this existing one
https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/consultations/
Details of the TVCA draft strategic transport plan and dates of consultation events.
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teess...t-17520167
Will operators listen and do anything about it though?
(11 Jan 2020, 5:02 pm)Andreos1 https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teess...t-17520167
Will operators listen and do anything about it though?
(11 Jan 2020, 5:02 pm)Andreos1 https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teess...t-17520167
Will operators listen and do anything about it though?
(25 Jan 2020, 5:10 pm)RobinHood It's not new though. You ask anyone and you will always get the same answers. High frequency, low fares etc.
What they don't tell you though, the people who answer the surveys probably use the bus very infrequently and still expect a 10 minute service just incase they need it a week on Tuesday.
Unfortunately a business model like that wouldn't exist very long. Large parts of Teesside have very frequent services.
The TVCA need to focus on reducing congestion, making towns less car friendly and only then will the bus actually be a reasonable option for those who can afford to run a car.
Material increases in passengers will be default create higher frequency as bus operators take advantage of the demand. It's not rocket science, just basic business.
Imagine if the TVCA actually pump primed bus improvement, using some of Ben Houchens war chest? That would break the 'chicken and egg' cycle.
Labour are unrealistic as well. Moving buses back to local authority ownership won't improve things. The same number of cars will still be on the road - the same congestion will still be there.
(25 Jan 2020, 5:10 pm)RobinHood It's not new though. You ask anyone and you will always get the same answers. High frequency, low fares etc.
What they don't tell you though, the people who answer the surveys probably use the bus very infrequently and still expect a 10 minute service just incase they need it a week on Tuesday.
Unfortunately a business model like that wouldn't exist very long. Large parts of Teesside have very frequent services.
The TVCA need to focus on reducing congestion, making towns less car friendly and only then will the bus actually be a reasonable option for those who can afford to run a car.
Material increases in passengers will be default create higher frequency as bus operators take advantage of the demand. It's not rocket science, just basic business.
Imagine if the TVCA actually pump primed bus improvement, using some of Ben Houchens war chest? That would break the 'chicken and egg' cycle.
Labour are unrealistic as well. Moving buses back to local authority ownership won't improve things. The same number of cars will still be on the road - the same congestion will still be there.
(27 Jan 2020, 9:41 am)Andreos1 Buses have to be attractive, affordable, frequent and reliable.
Making a town centre 'less car friendly' doesn't determine whether or not people will use the bus. Particularly when it's a lot easier to do shopping online.
There's no natural order which determines a modal shift, based on a town centre being 'less car friendly'.
Town centres across the UK are slowly dying. Alienating car owners isn't going to save them.
(27 Jan 2020, 9:41 am)Andreos1 Buses have to be attractive, affordable, frequent and reliable.
Making a town centre 'less car friendly' doesn't determine whether or not people will use the bus. Particularly when it's a lot easier to do shopping online.
There's no natural order which determines a modal shift, based on a town centre being 'less car friendly'.
Town centres across the UK are slowly dying. Alienating car owners isn't going to save them.
(28 Jan 2020, 8:54 pm)RobinHood You are correct, they are dying - but offering free parking isn't going to change that.
It will simply move a proportion of existing bus passengers, who already go to the town, to the car (of which there probably are a fair few who luckily have a choice). In turn, makes the bus service less viable and the resulting frequency hit or ultimate withdrawal affects many, many more people.
Alienating car owners is the way forward in my view (and I own a car). Climate change will ensure that and hopefully towns and cities will follow York's plans. Buses, trains, trams etc are much more sustainable, they just need room to grow. Only then, will they be attractive, affordable, frequent and reliable (simply because demand exists at a level to sustain it all and congestion is reduced by removing cars from city and town centres).
(28 Jan 2020, 8:54 pm)RobinHood You are correct, they are dying - but offering free parking isn't going to change that.
It will simply move a proportion of existing bus passengers, who already go to the town, to the car (of which there probably are a fair few who luckily have a choice). In turn, makes the bus service less viable and the resulting frequency hit or ultimate withdrawal affects many, many more people.
Alienating car owners is the way forward in my view (and I own a car). Climate change will ensure that and hopefully towns and cities will follow York's plans. Buses, trains, trams etc are much more sustainable, they just need room to grow. Only then, will they be attractive, affordable, frequent and reliable (simply because demand exists at a level to sustain it all and congestion is reduced by removing cars from city and town centres).
Coming down hard on the car driver is never going to work. The carrot and stick approach is the way forward.
I've mention this loads of times before but I'd rather run a car then pay 68 quid a month on the "appt" for unlimited travel. It seems like a good deal at just over £2.50 per day but its no good if the bus your hoping to travel on doesn't turn up. Make buses more reliable, and ALOT cheaper than my car and this will cancel out the negatives i've got about getting bus to work ( noisy passengers, dirty buses, waiting around for a connection etc etc)
(02 Feb 2020, 10:19 am)Rob44 Coming down hard on the car driver is never going to work. The carrot and stick approach is the way forward.
I've mention this loads of times before but I'd rather run a car then pay 68 quid a month on the "appt" for unlimited travel. It seems like a good deal at just over £2.50 per day but its no good if the bus your hoping to travel on doesn't turn up. Make buses more reliable, and ALOT cheaper than my car and this will cancel out the negatives i've got about getting bus to work ( noisy passengers, dirty buses, waiting around for a connection etc etc)
(02 Feb 2020, 10:19 am)Rob44 Coming down hard on the car driver is never going to work. The carrot and stick approach is the way forward.
I've mention this loads of times before but I'd rather run a car then pay 68 quid a month on the "appt" for unlimited travel. It seems like a good deal at just over £2.50 per day but its no good if the bus your hoping to travel on doesn't turn up. Make buses more reliable, and ALOT cheaper than my car and this will cancel out the negatives i've got about getting bus to work ( noisy passengers, dirty buses, waiting around for a connection etc etc)
(02 Feb 2020, 10:19 am)Rob44 Coming down hard on the car driver is never going to work. The carrot and stick approach is the way forward.
I've mention this loads of times before but I'd rather run a car then pay 68 quid a month on the "appt" for unlimited travel. It seems like a good deal at just over £2.50 per day but its no good if the bus your hoping to travel on doesn't turn up. Make buses more reliable, and ALOT cheaper than my car and this will cancel out the negatives i've got about getting bus to work ( noisy passengers, dirty buses, waiting around for a connection etc etc)
(02 Feb 2020, 10:19 am)Rob44 Coming down hard on the car driver is never going to work. The carrot and stick approach is the way forward.
I've mention this loads of times before but I'd rather run a car then pay 68 quid a month on the "appt" for unlimited travel. It seems like a good deal at just over £2.50 per day but its no good if the bus your hoping to travel on doesn't turn up. Make buses more reliable, and ALOT cheaper than my car and this will cancel out the negatives i've got about getting bus to work ( noisy passengers, dirty buses, waiting around for a connection etc etc)