Go North East: Service Suggestions v2
Go North East: Service Suggestions v2
(16 Sep 2020, 1:02 pm)ifm001 It's even better when there is no 21 to the business park at all and it is the 22 that they would have needed.There's also the 12 to the Business Park which is a GNE service. Same numbers, just the wrong way round!
(16 Sep 2020, 1:11 pm)tcts24 I kinda get the point about the 10A going off the beaten track a tiny bit. But it is a 10A, i.e. not a 10 or 10B. It goes vaguely the same direction and has a slightly different service number, which differnentiates it enough to figure out that like the 10B, it wont go anywhere near Hexam!
The same goes for the X10. It's different, as in it's not a 10 and it's pretty simply to comprehend that may not go to Coulby Newham from Middlesbrough Bus Station - like the 10 does! Expecting anything with a X prefix to take the same route as a similarly numbered non prefixed service is bodering distictly on the anal side.
The 55 and Stagecoach North East service 1's (both of them) present a bigger issue. Does it go to Buddle Road or Slatyford? Seaton Carew or Middlesbrough? Peterlee or Wingate? Where it goes, nobody knows! I have known instances of customers stopping the bus and asking the driver where it's going because they've established it's a 1, but haven't (or couldn't) read the actual destination. If these type of routes were split into a 1 and 2 or 1 and 1A or 55 and 155 or whatever.
(16 Sep 2020, 1:11 pm)tcts24 I kinda get the point about the 10A going off the beaten track a tiny bit. But it is a 10A, i.e. not a 10 or 10B. It goes vaguely the same direction and has a slightly different service number, which differnentiates it enough to figure out that like the 10B, it wont go anywhere near Hexam!
The same goes for the X10. It's different, as in it's not a 10 and it's pretty simply to comprehend that may not go to Coulby Newham from Middlesbrough Bus Station - like the 10 does! Expecting anything with a X prefix to take the same route as a similarly numbered non prefixed service is bodering distictly on the anal side.
The 55 and Stagecoach North East service 1's (both of them) present a bigger issue. Does it go to Buddle Road or Slatyford? Seaton Carew or Middlesbrough? Peterlee or Wingate? Where it goes, nobody knows! I have known instances of customers stopping the bus and asking the driver where it's going because they've established it's a 1, but haven't (or couldn't) read the actual destination. If these type of routes were split into a 1 and 2 or 1 and 1A or 55 and 155 or whatever.
(16 Sep 2020, 5:24 pm)Storx In terms of GNE, Arriva and Stagecoach is there any services which have the same number running from the same bus stop / station in Tyne and Wear, can't think of any tbh.
(16 Sep 2020, 5:33 pm)S813 FVK X47 at Eldon Square is the one that jumps out at me straight away.
(16 Sep 2020, 5:33 pm)S813 FVK X47 at Eldon Square is the one that jumps out at me straight away.
(16 Sep 2020, 5:24 pm)Storx I disagree with this personally I don't think any bus company in their own company shouldn't have duplicate numbers with an express and a non express service. It's not a bad assumption to assume an X1 is an express version of their 1, or the X10 is an express version of their 10 (ignoring common sense). Between other operators then fair enough but there's 99 numbers GNE could use (if you want to keep it 2 digits) without having an X1 and 1 and X10 and 10 running from the same bus stations (or nearby).
In terms of the 10, I quite like the way Trent Barton have done it for their 'nines' routes where it's 9.1 and 9.3 (used to be a 9.2 which got scrapped - don't have the gap). Could work well for the 10's 10.1 to Hexham, 10.2 for the 10A and 10.3 for the 10B
In terms of GNE, Arriva and Stagecoach is there any services which have the same number running from the same bus stop / station in Tyne and Wear, can't think of any tbh.
(16 Sep 2020, 5:53 pm)V514DFT Dont both the 10s stop at Central Station
(16 Sep 2020, 5:24 pm)Storx I disagree with this personally I don't think any bus company in their own company shouldn't have duplicate numbers with an express and a non express service. It's not a bad assumption to assume an X1 is an express version of their 1, or the X10 is an express version of their 10 (ignoring common sense). Between other operators then fair enough but there's 99 numbers GNE could use (if you want to keep it 2 digits) without having an X1 and 1 and X10 and 10 running from the same bus stations (or nearby).
In terms of the 10, I quite like the way Trent Barton have done it for their 'nines' routes where it's 9.1 and 9.3 (used to be a 9.2 which got scrapped - don't have the gap). Could work well for the 10's 10.1 to Hexham, 10.2 for the 10A and 10.3 for the 10B
In terms of GNE, Arriva and Stagecoach is there any services which have the same number running from the same bus stop / station in Tyne and Wear, can't think of any tbh.
(16 Sep 2020, 5:53 pm)V514DFT Dont both the 10s stop at Central Station
(16 Sep 2020, 5:33 pm)S813 FVK X47 at Eldon Square is the one that jumps out at me straight away.
(16 Sep 2020, 5:55 pm)OrangeArrow49 There used to be the Stagecoach 40 and GNE 40 from Wallsend Interchange. Different stops, but same interchange!
Yes, different stops, but you could argue Central Station is an interchange and served by a 10 from two companies.
Stagecoach 6 and GNE 6 at the Metrocentre, although different stands, could be confusing as they go from the same interchange!
I knew about the two 40's though it's what got me thinking about it. Noticable that it's all caused by GNE.
(16 Sep 2020, 5:33 pm)S813 FVK X47 at Eldon Square is the one that jumps out at me straight away.
(16 Sep 2020, 5:55 pm)OrangeArrow49 There used to be the Stagecoach 40 and GNE 40 from Wallsend Interchange. Different stops, but same interchange!
Yes, different stops, but you could argue Central Station is an interchange and served by a 10 from two companies.
Stagecoach 6 and GNE 6 at the Metrocentre, although different stands, could be confusing as they go from the same interchange!
I knew about the two 40's though it's what got me thinking about it. Noticable that it's all caused by GNE.
(16 Sep 2020, 6:36 pm)Storx Ah yeah forgot about that one, very recent though.Probably because Stagecoach have hardly changed any service numbers in decades and GNE change them pretty much every week.
Okay maybe there is a few thenI knew about the two 40's though it's what got me thinking about it. Noticable that it's all caused by GNE.
(16 Sep 2020, 6:36 pm)Storx Ah yeah forgot about that one, very recent though.Probably because Stagecoach have hardly changed any service numbers in decades and GNE change them pretty much every week.
Okay maybe there is a few then
A few service suggestions which I think could work some of which I have posted before.
Tyne and Wear
The Angel split into two services, the 21 as it is to Durham but reduced to every 20 minutes with new service 22 running to Chester le Street but running via what I think is called Harlow Green and Wrekenton. Both would combine to give a 10 minute frequency between Newcastle the Angel and Chester Le Street.
Some X22 journeys to extend to Bishop Auckland on a trail basis. Would combine with X21 to give Go North East more services in the Bishop Auckland area.
Service X55
Newcastle to Hartlepool
A new service bringing Go North East back into Hartlepool. Service would be hourly until 7PM. Would operate via Hart Village the A19 Washington and Metro centre.
Service X56
Would operate hourly as an express version of the Fab 56 but will also serve Washington Galleries. Both the X55 and X56 combine to bring an additional half hourly service between Washington and Newcastle. X55 also restores a service between Washington and the metro centre.
Tees Valley and Country Durham.
Service X6 restored to once again serve Hartlepool. This would once again give passengers a service between Hartlepool and Seaham.
Service X7. The X7 will also be restored to operate once again to Middlesbrough. To improve journey times this will no longer serve Seaham and will instead operate direct to Sunderland from Peterlee via Dalton Park.
Passengers can instead use the improved X6 or local indigo services.
New Service X11 Middlesbrough - Bishop Auckland
New Service X11 will once again see a direct service between Middlesbrough and Bishop Auckland.
The service will operate via Teesside Park, Stockton High Street, Norton , North Tees Hospital, Stillington Sedgefield and Ferryhill. The service will operate hourly.
(16 Sep 2020, 5:24 pm)Storx I disagree with this personally I don't think any bus company in their own company shouldn't have duplicate numbers with an express and a non express service. It's not a bad assumption to assume an X1 is an express version of their 1, or the X10 is an express version of their 10 (ignoring common sense). Between other operators then fair enough but there's 99 numbers GNE could use (if you want to keep it 2 digits) without having an X1 and 1 and X10 and 10 running from the same bus stations (or nearby).I think the worst one that was around until recently was in Sunderland with the Stagecoach 8 and the GNE 8 both operating and then for a while GNE had the contract for the evening and Sunday Stagecoach service but still operated the normal GNE 8. So there was 2 GNE 8s in Sunderland going to different locations. Least that's rectified now
In terms of the 10, I quite like the way Trent Barton have done it for their 'nines' routes where it's 9.1 and 9.3 (used to be a 9.2 which got scrapped - don't have the gap). Could work well for the 10's 10.1 to Hexham, 10.2 for the 10A and 10.3 for the 10B
In terms of GNE, Arriva and Stagecoach is there any services which have the same number running from the same bus stop / station in Tyne and Wear, can't think of any tbh.
(16 Sep 2020, 5:24 pm)Storx I disagree with this personally I don't think any bus company in their own company shouldn't have duplicate numbers with an express and a non express service. It's not a bad assumption to assume an X1 is an express version of their 1, or the X10 is an express version of their 10 (ignoring common sense). Between other operators then fair enough but there's 99 numbers GNE could use (if you want to keep it 2 digits) without having an X1 and 1 and X10 and 10 running from the same bus stations (or nearby).I think the worst one that was around until recently was in Sunderland with the Stagecoach 8 and the GNE 8 both operating and then for a while GNE had the contract for the evening and Sunday Stagecoach service but still operated the normal GNE 8. So there was 2 GNE 8s in Sunderland going to different locations. Least that's rectified now
In terms of the 10, I quite like the way Trent Barton have done it for their 'nines' routes where it's 9.1 and 9.3 (used to be a 9.2 which got scrapped - don't have the gap). Could work well for the 10's 10.1 to Hexham, 10.2 for the 10A and 10.3 for the 10B
In terms of GNE, Arriva and Stagecoach is there any services which have the same number running from the same bus stop / station in Tyne and Wear, can't think of any tbh.
(16 Sep 2020, 8:01 pm)col87 A few service suggestions which I think could work some of which I have posted before.21 should be fun, busy enough through low fell. Also there was a reason why the 55 was cut from hartlepool.
Tyne and Wear
The Angel split into two services, the 21 as it is to Durham but reduced to every 20 minutes with new service 22 running to Chester le Street but running via what I think is called Harlow Green and Wrekenton. Both would combine to give a 10 minute frequency between Newcastle the Angel and Chester Le Street.
Some X22 journeys to extend to Bishop Auckland on a trail basis. Would combine with X21 to give Go North East more services in the Bishop Auckland area.
Service X55
Newcastle to Hartlepool
A new service bringing Go North East back into Hartlepool. Service would be hourly until 7PM. Would operate via Hart Village the A19 Washington and Metro centre.
Service X56
Would operate hourly as an express version of the Fab 56 but will also serve Washington Galleries. Both the X55 and X56 combine to bring an additional half hourly service between Washington and Newcastle. X55 also restores a service between Washington and the metro centre.
Tees Valley and Country Durham.
Service X6 restored to once again serve Hartlepool. This would once again give passengers a service between Hartlepool and Seaham.
Service X7. The X7 will also be restored to operate once again to Middlesbrough. To improve journey times this will no longer serve Seaham and will instead operate direct to Sunderland from Peterlee via Dalton Park.
Passengers can instead use the improved X6 or local indigo services.
New Service X11 Middlesbrough - Bishop Auckland
New Service X11 will once again see a direct service between Middlesbrough and Bishop Auckland.
The service will operate via Teesside Park, Stockton High Street, Norton , North Tees Hospital, Stillington Sedgefield and Ferryhill. The service will operate hourly.
(16 Sep 2020, 8:01 pm)col87 A few service suggestions which I think could work some of which I have posted before.21 should be fun, busy enough through low fell. Also there was a reason why the 55 was cut from hartlepool.
Tyne and Wear
The Angel split into two services, the 21 as it is to Durham but reduced to every 20 minutes with new service 22 running to Chester le Street but running via what I think is called Harlow Green and Wrekenton. Both would combine to give a 10 minute frequency between Newcastle the Angel and Chester Le Street.
Some X22 journeys to extend to Bishop Auckland on a trail basis. Would combine with X21 to give Go North East more services in the Bishop Auckland area.
Service X55
Newcastle to Hartlepool
A new service bringing Go North East back into Hartlepool. Service would be hourly until 7PM. Would operate via Hart Village the A19 Washington and Metro centre.
Service X56
Would operate hourly as an express version of the Fab 56 but will also serve Washington Galleries. Both the X55 and X56 combine to bring an additional half hourly service between Washington and Newcastle. X55 also restores a service between Washington and the metro centre.
Tees Valley and Country Durham.
Service X6 restored to once again serve Hartlepool. This would once again give passengers a service between Hartlepool and Seaham.
Service X7. The X7 will also be restored to operate once again to Middlesbrough. To improve journey times this will no longer serve Seaham and will instead operate direct to Sunderland from Peterlee via Dalton Park.
Passengers can instead use the improved X6 or local indigo services.
New Service X11 Middlesbrough - Bishop Auckland
New Service X11 will once again see a direct service between Middlesbrough and Bishop Auckland.
The service will operate via Teesside Park, Stockton High Street, Norton , North Tees Hospital, Stillington Sedgefield and Ferryhill. The service will operate hourly.
GNE’s route planners have been on acid for a good 30 years. Their network had chopped and changed , and for much of the time , for little benefit. No wonder their service numbers are all over the place. I’ll give you a local Sunderland example - how long will it take for the 33 to be scrapped again (again) !!!!
(16 Sep 2020, 6:36 pm)Storx Ah yeah forgot about that one, very recent though.That was right up until March, now theres just the Stagecoach 40, but were very close,think GNE 40 stipped at Stand B and Stagecoach 40 was Stand C
Okay maybe there is a few then
(16 Sep 2020, 6:36 pm)Storx Ah yeah forgot about that one, very recent though.That was right up until March, now theres just the Stagecoach 40, but were very close,think GNE 40 stipped at Stand B and Stagecoach 40 was Stand C
Okay maybe there is a few then
Wish they'd do something about metrocentre no direct services from south tyneside, east durham, sunderland or washington & houghton
New Services X2/X2A Sunderland - Southwick - Enterprise Park - Castletown - Waterview Park - Sulgrave - Concord - Washington Galleries - Team Valley (X2A) - Metrocentre - Newcastle
These Services will replace nexus 73, 939 & 939A
(16 Sep 2020, 5:24 pm)Storx I disagree with this personally I don't think any bus company in their own company shouldn't have duplicate numbers with an express and a non express service. It's not a bad assumption to assume an X1 is an express version of their 1, or the X10 is an express version of their 10 (ignoring common sense). Between other operators then fair enough but there's 99 numbers GNE could use (if you want to keep it 2 digits) without having an X1 and 1 and X10 and 10 running from the same bus stations (or nearby).
In terms of the 10, I quite like the way Trent Barton have done it for their 'nines' routes where it's 9.1 and 9.3 (used to be a 9.2 which got scrapped - don't have the gap). Could work well for the 10's 10.1 to Hexham, 10.2 for the 10A and 10.3 for the 10B
In terms of GNE, Arriva and Stagecoach is there any services which have the same number running from the same bus stop / station in Tyne and Wear, can't think of any tbh.
(16 Sep 2020, 5:24 pm)Storx I disagree with this personally I don't think any bus company in their own company shouldn't have duplicate numbers with an express and a non express service. It's not a bad assumption to assume an X1 is an express version of their 1, or the X10 is an express version of their 10 (ignoring common sense). Between other operators then fair enough but there's 99 numbers GNE could use (if you want to keep it 2 digits) without having an X1 and 1 and X10 and 10 running from the same bus stations (or nearby).
In terms of the 10, I quite like the way Trent Barton have done it for their 'nines' routes where it's 9.1 and 9.3 (used to be a 9.2 which got scrapped - don't have the gap). Could work well for the 10's 10.1 to Hexham, 10.2 for the 10A and 10.3 for the 10B
In terms of GNE, Arriva and Stagecoach is there any services which have the same number running from the same bus stop / station in Tyne and Wear, can't think of any tbh.
(17 Sep 2020, 9:12 am)ASX_Terranova Wish they'd do something about metrocentre no direct services from south tyneside, east durham, sunderland or washington & houghton
New Services X2/X2A Sunderland - Southwick - Enterprise Park - Castletown - Waterview Park - Sulgrave - Concord - Washington Galleries - Team Valley (X2A) - Metrocentre - Newcastle
These Services will replace nexus 73, 939 & 939A
(17 Sep 2020, 9:12 am)ASX_Terranova Wish they'd do something about metrocentre no direct services from south tyneside, east durham, sunderland or washington & houghton
New Services X2/X2A Sunderland - Southwick - Enterprise Park - Castletown - Waterview Park - Sulgrave - Concord - Washington Galleries - Team Valley (X2A) - Metrocentre - Newcastle
These Services will replace nexus 73, 939 & 939A
(17 Sep 2020, 9:59 am)tcts24 In 38 years of being alive, at no point do I ever remember assuming 2 different services went to the same places because of similarities in route number. When I was a child, United service 10 from Middlesbrough went to Hartlepool, United and Northern joint service X10 went to Newcastle (as it still does), so it's nothing new.
Route numbers exist for customers to differentiate between what bus goes where. Stood in Sunderland and looking for a bus to Souter Lighthouse, having buses with only a destination of "South Shields" on it's and no number isn't too helpful as they all take seperate routes. As they're numbered either 20, E1, E2, or E6, then it's easy to identify that I'd need to be on the E1 to South Shields. Those four routes could respectively be numbered 974, 74G, EGY74 and D74J and it would would make no difference at all, because I'd still know which bus I'd need to catch to Souter Lighthouse, regardless of whatever route identifier it's displaying.
The use of dots and dashes is novel, but could potentially cause the confusion your trying to avoid between a 1.1 and 11. The use of alphanumeric indentifiers for route variations are more legible on a destination board.
And suggesting that it's "fair enough" for seperate operators to number their routes similarly is bizarre. From my experience of talking to people, the average person on the street can not identify one operator from another. This is especially relevant when dealing with Go-Ahead, who constantly swap and change routes, route numbers, bus colours (both inside and out) and bus types. While you and I can tell the difference, the only non bus spotters that'll care about the two service 8's in Sunderland are those that use them and they will already know whether they need to be on a 8 to Stanley or an 8 to South Hylton. On average, the colour of the bus or who's name is plastered across the side of it won't matter in the slightest and probably won't even get noticed.
(17 Sep 2020, 9:59 am)tcts24 In 38 years of being alive, at no point do I ever remember assuming 2 different services went to the same places because of similarities in route number. When I was a child, United service 10 from Middlesbrough went to Hartlepool, United and Northern joint service X10 went to Newcastle (as it still does), so it's nothing new.
Route numbers exist for customers to differentiate between what bus goes where. Stood in Sunderland and looking for a bus to Souter Lighthouse, having buses with only a destination of "South Shields" on it's and no number isn't too helpful as they all take seperate routes. As they're numbered either 20, E1, E2, or E6, then it's easy to identify that I'd need to be on the E1 to South Shields. Those four routes could respectively be numbered 974, 74G, EGY74 and D74J and it would would make no difference at all, because I'd still know which bus I'd need to catch to Souter Lighthouse, regardless of whatever route identifier it's displaying.
The use of dots and dashes is novel, but could potentially cause the confusion your trying to avoid between a 1.1 and 11. The use of alphanumeric indentifiers for route variations are more legible on a destination board.
And suggesting that it's "fair enough" for seperate operators to number their routes similarly is bizarre. From my experience of talking to people, the average person on the street can not identify one operator from another. This is especially relevant when dealing with Go-Ahead, who constantly swap and change routes, route numbers, bus colours (both inside and out) and bus types. While you and I can tell the difference, the only non bus spotters that'll care about the two service 8's in Sunderland are those that use them and they will already know whether they need to be on a 8 to Stanley or an 8 to South Hylton. On average, the colour of the bus or who's name is plastered across the side of it won't matter in the slightest and probably won't even get noticed.
(17 Sep 2020, 10:33 am)Storx Some people are extremely stupid though and don't bother to read destinations properly. That wasn't a comment directed at you, this was directed at the people who can't read a basic timetable and those who get on a 21 to Chester Le Street and ask if it goes to Durham for 2 examples. There will be some idiots who see X10 and think oh that must be the 10 and it doesn't help when GNE add X's to routes for no reason bar branding reasons (X5, X15, X45, X46, X47). There's enough numbers around there's no need for a 1 and X1, 10 and X10 when it's not needed.
That's a valid point with the 1 and one I didn't think of, maybe only use it where there is no service with the same number so with the 10's it could work.
You misinterpretated the comment on using the same numbers I meant in the sense that in the whole of GNE, numbers shouldn't duplicate anywhere so every route should be different, the same with Arriva Northumbria / North East (they're two different companies as they're not connected) and Stagecoach's each little area nor should there be an express of a bus route has a local service of the same number. There certainly should be no duplicates in the same bus station or town though but the fact GNE have a 57 in Gateshead and Arriva have a 57 in Whitley then there's no issue there as their far enough apart or even the example such as the GNE 47 and Stagecoach X47 in Eldon Square (the two X47's is stupid though). It wouldn't be sensible to ban the same number everywhere in the North East.
(17 Sep 2020, 10:33 am)Storx Some people are extremely stupid though and don't bother to read destinations properly. That wasn't a comment directed at you, this was directed at the people who can't read a basic timetable and those who get on a 21 to Chester Le Street and ask if it goes to Durham for 2 examples. There will be some idiots who see X10 and think oh that must be the 10 and it doesn't help when GNE add X's to routes for no reason bar branding reasons (X5, X15, X45, X46, X47). There's enough numbers around there's no need for a 1 and X1, 10 and X10 when it's not needed.
That's a valid point with the 1 and one I didn't think of, maybe only use it where there is no service with the same number so with the 10's it could work.
You misinterpretated the comment on using the same numbers I meant in the sense that in the whole of GNE, numbers shouldn't duplicate anywhere so every route should be different, the same with Arriva Northumbria / North East (they're two different companies as they're not connected) and Stagecoach's each little area nor should there be an express of a bus route has a local service of the same number. There certainly should be no duplicates in the same bus station or town though but the fact GNE have a 57 in Gateshead and Arriva have a 57 in Whitley then there's no issue there as their far enough apart or even the example such as the GNE 47 and Stagecoach X47 in Eldon Square (the two X47's is stupid though). It wouldn't be sensible to ban the same number everywhere in the North East.
