Arriva North East: Planned Industrial Action
#21
(04/12/2018, 22:59)Adrian Wrote: However theoretical the question, I've moved it to the ANE thread, as I feel it is better placed here than in the GNE thread.

I think you'd see bigger buses (deckers) where possible or available, but beyond that, I don't think they'd have the capacity.

Well in theory, I think the following would happen if a strike was to hit during term time in the Northumbria area:

- 42/42A allocated full size single decks.

- Q3 split in Newcastle. Northern section of route duplicated.

- 57 allocated double deckers.

- 19 no changes but a new bus sent out in North Shields for all Ashington runs (similar to how the Hexham 10's / X21 work with a layover).

- X39 not worked of the 309/310 and instead, sending out a separate vehicle / driver for all runs (bar the scheduled 1605 existing misc working).

- 309/ 310 not interworked with an extended layover in Newcastle.

- 309 duplicated between Blyth and Cobalt South at peak times. Full services to Newcastle at peak times would be pick up only at the Cobalt in the mornings towards Newcastle (with duplicate run dropping off at the Cobalt) and drop off only at the Cobalt (with duplicate run picking up at the Cobalt) in the afternoon / early evening towards Blyth. 2245 309 maybe extended to Blyth on a goodwill basis past Whitley Bay (can't legally charge fares for that part of route unless extended journey is registered with DVSA), could operate drop off only for any passengers boarding between Newcastle and Hillheads.

- Duplicate 309s and 310s between Station Road and Newcastle at peak times.

- 309 would use stand L at Haymarket with 310 remaining at stand M.

- Quietest boards on the X1/56/1/10/10A/10B that don't warrant a full decker load (but could be fully seated on a single decker with minimal or no standees) converted to single deckers with any spare deckers transferred to Riverside / Percy Main for the Q3/57/309/310.
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#22
(04/12/2018, 23:29)L469 YVK Wrote: Well in theory, I think the following would happen if a strike was to hit during term time in the Northumbria area:

Maybe, in theory, people could just support the strike? Most of us won't be able to remember the last one, and I don't think it is a great line of discussion to be talking about how another operator could help with strike breaking.. they're a unionised workforce too!
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#23
(04/12/2018, 23:36)Adrian Wrote: Maybe, in theory, people could just support the strike? Most of us won't be able to remember the last one, and I don't think it is a great line of discussion to be talking about how another operator could help with strike breaking.. they're a unionised workforce too!

I also imagine GNE customers would have something to say if their buses were all taken away and replaced with single deckers!

In all honesty I think ANE need a shake down from top to bottom, and have done for a number of years. The appearance of vehicles is shoddy at the best of times, as is the attitude towards ensuring that services that promise x, y and z have vehicles allocated with x, y and z actually working. The Boxing Day offering is a joke, in comparison to what GNE offer, and they seem to rarely listen to customer complaints. There's no forward thinking, what they brand as "Sapphire" is no longer worth shouting about (especially if half of the features don't work), and there's a huge gap in pay between depots. Poor timetabling has been an issue for as long as I can remember as well, especially on the express routes, and despite constant "reviews" is never actually addressed.
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#24
There will be no strike, Arriva management know how to play the game. A few days before the first strike day they will offer a tiny extra increase which the union will have to put to the members for a vote, which will automatically put on hold any impending strike action for the forseeable future. Don't forget that the Unite union and its reps are historically spineless and self serving interested only in backhanders from Arriva in return for towing the line.

Thanks to Unite allowing Arriva to bring in a new pay structure without a vote from the members in 2017, all new starters at Jes/Ash/Blyth get 20% less for driving a big bus in service than they would have if they started prior to the new "agreement". Oh and just to add the Unite union rep at Jesmond was forced to leave recently after being caught fiddling his union expenses....
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#25
(04/12/2018, 23:36)Adrian Wrote: Maybe, in theory, people could just support the strike? Most of us won't be able to remember the last one, and I don't think it is a great line of discussion to be talking about how another operator could help with strike breaking.. they're a unionised workforce too!

True, just talking in general though and I'm sure that despite GNE / Arriva being separate companies, the Unions wouldn't want to break a strike and would most likely just accept the prospect of needing to regulate services or leave passengers behind. 

Even if GNE put extra measures in place, they'd still struggle to some extent.
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#26
(05/12/2018, 00:03)mb134 Wrote: I also imagine GNE customers would have something to say if their buses were all taken away and replaced with single deckers!

In all honesty I think ANE need a shake down from top to bottom, and have done for a number of years. The appearance of vehicles is shoddy at the best of times, as is the attitude towards ensuring that services that promise x, y and z have vehicles allocated with x, y and z actually working. The Boxing Day offering is a joke, in comparison to what GNE offer, and they seem to rarely listen to customer complaints. There's no forward thinking, what they brand as "Sapphire" is no longer worth shouting about (especially if half of the features don't work), and there's a huge gap in pay between depots. Poor timetabling has been an issue for as long as I can remember as well, especially on the express routes, and despite constant "reviews" is never actually addressed.

The problem is that things won't change due to Arriva holding a monopoly  And the 'express' routes will always make money regardless of how poor or unreliable they are. 'Pack 'em in and run 'em late' has always been the approach.

And one of the annoying gripes was the withdrawal of the late evening Newcastle - Blyth services (308/X10) without good reason or even only limiting them to a Fri & Sat evening or making a route variation (didn't consider tye 23.40 X10 serving 43 route to Cramlington yet introduced a late evening 44/45).

ANE needs a similar approach to what the late Peter Huntley took with GNE. He wasn't perfect by any means but he turned things around and stabilised the business. That's what ANE needs.

- Gold standard (or Sapphire MEANS Sapphire)
- Two-way Radios
- No running early for fag breaks (well most timetables don't allow that anyways)
- Good driving standards (no doing 40 on a clear 60/70 without good reason when the bus is already 10 mins late)
- Strict branding
- Service delivery managers for a group of routes
- Meaningful live chats / consultations
- Simple ticketing
- Better pay for drivers
- Dedicated control rooms / customer services for Northumbria and Durham County
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#27
(05/12/2018, 01:46)L469 YVK Wrote: The problem is that things won't change due to Arriva holding a monopoly  And the 'express' routes will always make money regardless of how poor or unreliable they are. 'Pack 'em in and run 'em late' has always been the approach.

And one of the annoying gripes was the withdrawal of the late evening Newcastle - Blyth services (308/X10) without good reason or even only limiting them to a Fri & Sat evening or making a route variation (didn't consider tye 23.40 X10 serving 43 route to Cramlington yet introduced a late evening 44/45).

ANE needs a similar approach to what the late Peter Huntley took with GNE. He wasn't perfect by any means but he turned things around and stabilised the business. That's what ANE needs.

- Gold standard (or Sapphire MEANS Sapphire)
- Two-way Radios
- No running early for fag breaks (well most timetables don't allow that anyways)
- Good driving standards (no doing 40 on a clear 60/70 without good reason when the bus is already 10 mins late)
- Strict branding
- Service delivery managers for a group of routes
- Meaningful live chats / consultations
- Simple ticketing
- Better pay for drivers
- Dedicated control rooms / customer services for Northumbria and Durham County

The downgrade of Sapphire has come as no suprise, it worked on the 7 when it first came out as the staff were committed and even had a dedicated Sapphire uniform, sadly the standards have dropped and most Sapphire routes are just not what they should be.

If Arriva engaged more, and invested more into Staff and the Fleet, Arriva would be more well known for good reasons. Go North East got rid of their Cadets (which were newer) and yet Arriva seem to cling on to stuff until the last second.
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#28
(03/12/2018, 18:10)S830OFT Wrote: God help passenger's if a strike occured on Saturday as Arriva Buses are already accepting tickets off Northern.

That's what happens when you allow the same company to operate buses and trains in an area,. Monopoly.

(03/12/2018, 23:40)S830OFT Wrote: As the article suggests only a 'token' of services will operate here is my suggestion:
Durham, Belmont:
6: Every 30 minutes, both buses per hour will operate Durham to Cockfield.
7: Every 30 Minutes.
22: Every 60 Minutes, this service will operate via Easington Collirey.
23: Not Operating, Covered by 22/24.
24: Every 60 Minutes.
43: Every 60 Minutes.
X46: Every 60 Minutes.
48: Every 60 Minutes.
49: Every 60 Minutes.
56/86: Every 60 Minutes.
57: Not Operating.
57A: Every 60 Minutes.
61/62: Normal Service.
64: Every 30 Minutes.
X12: Every 60 Minutes.

Darlington:
1: Every 60 Minutes.
2: Every 30 Minutes.
3: Every 60 Minutes (Town to Skrene Park only).
4: Every 60 Minutes.
5: Every 60 Minutes.
5A: Not Operating.
8: Not Operating.
9/10: Every 30 Minutes.
12: Every 60 Minutes.
13A: Every 20 Minutes (Will Interwork With 3/4.
19: Not Operating.
X21: Every 2 Hours.
X26: Every 60 Minutes.
X66: Every 60 Minutes.
X67: Every 60 Minutes.

Stockton:
5: Every 30 Minutes.
5A: Not Operating.
7A: Every 60 Minutes.
8/9: Every 30 Minutes.
15: Every 20 Minutes.
17: Every 60 Minutes.
17A: Not Operating.
28/29: Combined to operate Every 30 minutes.
X22: Every 2 Hours (Will turn into X21 to Sunderland at Peterlee).

Redcar:
X3: Every 60 Minutes.
X3A: Not Operating.
X4: Every 60 Minutes.
62: Every 60 Minutes.
63: Every 20 Minutes.
64: Every 60 Minutes.
64A: Not Operating.
81: Every 2 Hours.

Whitby: 
X93: Split Route, Service will operate very infrequently.
95: Only Journeys to Grosmont will operate.

THIS IS JUST MY SUGGESTION, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY RESOURCES ARRIVA HAVE, THIS IS JUST MY SUGGESTION TO WHAT COULD POSSIBLY OPERATE.


Very much doubt they'd have drivers to run that lot. 63 every 20 minutes?!

(04/12/2018, 02:04)Adrian Wrote: That is the whole point of a strike. Maximum impact. They're hardly going to do it on a Sunday morning only, as to not inconvenience anybody!

Remember that it takes two to tango. I am only surprised it had taken this long for the Union to call out shocking levels of pay... what South division drivers start at will be less than minimum wage for 25+ (expected to rise to £9.00), within the next 18 months.


Depends what their contract states with regards to place of work. Yorkshire I'd suggest would have to be volunteers, based on the geography, but you'd have to be pretty low to voluntarily cover a colleague out on strike...  Undecided

Or be considerate of passengers who pay the wages.

(04/12/2018, 20:23)mb134 Wrote: Surprised it has taken this long for Durham County to organise strike action. Arriva paying Northumbria region drivers more from the start is unnacceptable. Bus drivers seem reasonably underpaid across the board to be honest, especially when compared to train drivers - I'd argue bus drivers have even more responsibility, yet are paid substantially less.

Would agree re train drivers but why is unacceptable for them to pay one region more than another? It is all down to supply and demand. No-one is forced to work for them. Everyne in London gets paid more.

(04/12/2018, 23:36)Adrian Wrote: Maybe, in theory, people could just support the strike? Most of us won't be able to remember the last one, and I don't think it is a great line of discussion to be talking about how another operator could help with strike breaking.. they're a unionised workforce too!

You sound like a Corbynite.
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#29
(05/12/2018, 00:03)mb134 Wrote: I also imagine GNE customers would have something to say if their buses were all taken away and replaced with single deckers!

In all honesty I think ANE need a shake down from top to bottom, and have done for a number of years. The appearance of vehicles is shoddy at the best of times, as is the attitude towards ensuring that services that promise x, y and z have vehicles allocated with x, y and z actually working. The Boxing Day offering is a joke, in comparison to what GNE offer, and they seem to rarely listen to customer complaints. There's no forward thinking, what they brand as "Sapphire" is no longer worth shouting about (especially if half of the features don't work), and there's a huge gap in pay between depots. Poor timetabling has been an issue for as long as I can remember as well, especially on the express routes, and despite constant "reviews" is never actually addressed.

Cant argue with that. Look at my list of 'unusual workings' in Teesside on Monday. Stagecoach (nor GNE on the X9/10) had none!

Remember the Northern strike, was it early 90s?? Private operators came in.
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#30
(05/12/2018, 16:39)Cock Robin Wrote: Cant argue with that. Look at my list of 'unusual workings' in Teesside on Monday. Stagecoach (nor GNE on the X9/10) had none!

Remember the Northern strike, was it early 90s?? Private operators came in. 

A number of them have gone out of business or taken over though. 
The perils of capitalism and the resultant monopolies!
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
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#31
(05/12/2018, 16:29)Cock Robin Wrote: You sound like a Corbynite.

That's a bit personal, Ian. Or is that your level of debate?  Dodgy
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#32
(05/12/2018, 17:11)Andreos1 Wrote: A number of them have gone out of business or taken over though. 
The perils of capitalism and the resultant monopolies!

Here Here!
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#33
(03/12/2018, 23:22)Dan Wrote: Obviously not...

I would hope that Arriva would cover the routes which have no competition with other operators first before considering a route like the X12 between Durham and Newcastle?!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

So would I, or else vast swathes of East Durham would end up cut off, leaving people with no means of getting to school, work or college.
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#34
(04/12/2018, 23:36)Adrian Wrote: Maybe, in theory, people could just support the strike? Most of us won't be able to remember the last one, and I don't think it is a great line of discussion to be talking about how another operator could help with strike breaking.. they're a unionised workforce too!

I don't think GNE would intend to break a strike if one ever happened in the Northumbria area. GNE would however put it's own and it's regular passengers interests first by ensuring there was enough capacity to cope with the extra loads and that services were running as close to time as possible. Wouldn't be very fair that somebody who travels to lets say Cobalt for work on a day in day out basis, couldn't get a seat or even get on for that matter due to GNE needing to take Arriva's own passengers from Blyth all the way to Newcastle and working that out, GNE would need seats for at least around an extra 80-120 passengers per hour during peak times based on 20-25% of the X10/X11 capacity being taken up by those who live in Blyth. And not only that, GNE would also need extra capacity to take passengers who would normally use the 308 too!

(05/12/2018, 00:03)mb134 Wrote: I also imagine GNE customers would have something to say if their buses were all taken away and replaced with single deckers!

It would only be a handful of boards across a few double deck routes where the extra capacity is handy but is not needed. Boards where 30-40 passengers would normally comfortably be seated on a double decker but would be ok on a typical Merc / Omnicity (although a bit tight).
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#35
Arriva's Facebook page:  https://www.facebook.com/arrivanortheast...=3&theater
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#36
(06/12/2018, 22:13)L469 YVK Wrote: I don't think GNE would intend to break a strike if one ever happened in the Northumbria area. GNE would however put it's own and it's regular passengers interests first by ensuring there was enough capacity to cope with the extra loads and that services were running as close to time as possible. Wouldn't be very fair that somebody who travels to lets say Cobalt for work on a day in day out basis, couldn't get a seat or even get on for that matter due to GNE needing to take Arriva's own passengers from Blyth all the way to Newcastle and working that out, GNE would need seats for at least around an extra 80-120 passengers per hour during peak times based on 20-25% of the X10/X11 capacity being taken up by those who live in Blyth. And not only that, GNE would also need extra capacity to take passengers who would normally use the 308 too!

This happens anyway? Every time there is an unplanned Metro closure... so every other week!
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#37
(07/12/2018, 20:53)Adrian Wrote: This happens anyway? Every time there is an unplanned Metro closure... so every other week!

Yes, but bearing in mind, most will use the 308 due to it being a more known route and 'cos it does up the Motorway' in passenger speak.
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#38
(08/12/2018, 13:17)L469 YVK Wrote: Yes, but bearing in mind, most will use the 308 due to it being a more known route and 'cos it does up the Motorway' in passenger speak.

I disagree. For ENCTS holders, there is absolutely no brand loyalty. For paying customers, they'll tend to go for the cheapest option. Hence why fares are more competitive in areas like North Tyneside, compared to say, Gateshead.
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#39
Does anybody know how many drivers Arriva Durham County employs? Just trying to do the maths on the pay demands.
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#40
(08/12/2018, 18:00)James101 Wrote: Does anybody know how many drivers Arriva Durham County employs? Just trying to do the maths on the pay demands.

Around 650 accoding to the newspapers.
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