Reversing the decline in passenger numbers
Reversing the decline in passenger numbers
I feel greater use should be made of the legislation that allows taxi firms to run bus services. This is used in Tyne & Wear by Nexus in parts of the county.
It would be ideal for rural areas of Northumberland and County Durham. Let's say for example you use a taxi firm from Morpeth on a route to Wallington Hall. Chances are you'll be employing someone with good local knowledge. You'll be using say an eight seater minibus that can also be used for school contracts and general taxi work. You'll be able to negotiate narrow country lanes and pick/up drop off in isolated locations. All that would be needed is training the operator in ticketing options and customer service requirements. With good publicity you could make a success of it never mind encouraging local bus use.
It could also work in areas such as Hartlepool on evenings and Sundays. There are two private hire operators in Hartlepool (23 and Blue line). Use a wheelchair accessible 8 seater after conducting a survey to find out where people wish to travel the most. Then get some publicity in place.
Charles
(14 Sep 2021, 5:53 am)Charles41 I feel greater use should be made of the legislation that allows taxi firms to run bus services. This is used in Tyne & Wear by Nexus in parts of the county.
It would be ideal for rural areas of Northumberland and County Durham. Let's say for example you use a taxi firm from Morpeth on a route to Wallington Hall. Chances are you'll be employing someone with good local knowledge. You'll be using say an eight seater minibus that can also be used for school contracts and general taxi work. You'll be able to negotiate narrow country lanes and pick/up drop off in isolated locations. All that would be needed is training the operator in ticketing options and customer service requirements. With good publicity you could make a success of it never mind encouraging local bus use.
It could also work in areas such as Hartlepool on evenings and Sundays. There are two private hire operators in Hartlepool (23 and Blue line). Use a wheelchair accessible 8 seater after conducting a survey to find out where people wish to travel the most. Then get some publicity in place.
Charles
(14 Sep 2021, 5:53 am)Charles41 I feel greater use should be made of the legislation that allows taxi firms to run bus services. This is used in Tyne & Wear by Nexus in parts of the county.
It would be ideal for rural areas of Northumberland and County Durham. Let's say for example you use a taxi firm from Morpeth on a route to Wallington Hall. Chances are you'll be employing someone with good local knowledge. You'll be using say an eight seater minibus that can also be used for school contracts and general taxi work. You'll be able to negotiate narrow country lanes and pick/up drop off in isolated locations. All that would be needed is training the operator in ticketing options and customer service requirements. With good publicity you could make a success of it never mind encouraging local bus use.
It could also work in areas such as Hartlepool on evenings and Sundays. There are two private hire operators in Hartlepool (23 and Blue line). Use a wheelchair accessible 8 seater after conducting a survey to find out where people wish to travel the most. Then get some publicity in place.
Charles
(14 Sep 2021, 5:53 am)Charles41 I feel greater use should be made of the legislation that allows taxi firms to run bus services. This is used in Tyne & Wear by Nexus in parts of the county.
It would be ideal for rural areas of Northumberland and County Durham. Let's say for example you use a taxi firm from Morpeth on a route to Wallington Hall. Chances are you'll be employing someone with good local knowledge. You'll be using say an eight seater minibus that can also be used for school contracts and general taxi work. You'll be able to negotiate narrow country lanes and pick/up drop off in isolated locations. All that would be needed is training the operator in ticketing options and customer service requirements. With good publicity you could make a success of it never mind encouraging local bus use.
It could also work in areas such as Hartlepool on evenings and Sundays. There are two private hire operators in Hartlepool (23 and Blue line). Use a wheelchair accessible 8 seater after conducting a survey to find out where people wish to travel the most. Then get some publicity in place.
Charles
(14 Sep 2021, 5:53 am)Charles41 I feel greater use should be made of the legislation that allows taxi firms to run bus services. This is used in Tyne & Wear by Nexus in parts of the county.
It would be ideal for rural areas of Northumberland and County Durham. Let's say for example you use a taxi firm from Morpeth on a route to Wallington Hall. Chances are you'll be employing someone with good local knowledge. You'll be using say an eight seater minibus that can also be used for school contracts and general taxi work. You'll be able to negotiate narrow country lanes and pick/up drop off in isolated locations. All that would be needed is training the operator in ticketing options and customer service requirements. With good publicity you could make a success of it never mind encouraging local bus use.
It could also work in areas such as Hartlepool on evenings and Sundays. There are two private hire operators in Hartlepool (23 and Blue line). Use a wheelchair accessible 8 seater after conducting a survey to find out where people wish to travel the most. Then get some publicity in place.
Charles
(14 Sep 2021, 9:37 am)Adrian Why would taxi firms want to do that though? If the bus service doesn't exist in the first place, then the taxi companies have the monopoly.
A better solution would be to allow local authorities to run their own municipal bus companies again, which would allow the commercial gap to be plugged without giving more work to the private sector.
(14 Sep 2021, 9:37 am)Adrian Why would taxi firms want to do that though? If the bus service doesn't exist in the first place, then the taxi companies have the monopoly.
A better solution would be to allow local authorities to run their own municipal bus companies again, which would allow the commercial gap to be plugged without giving more work to the private sector.
(14 Sep 2021, 9:37 am)Adrian Why would taxi firms want to do that though? If the bus service doesn't exist in the first place, then the taxi companies have the monopoly.Redcar and Cleveland Council does already, so there's nothing seemingly stopping another council doing that.
A better solution would be to allow local authorities to run their own municipal bus companies again, which would allow the commercial gap to be plugged without giving more work to the private sector.
(14 Sep 2021, 9:37 am)Adrian Why would taxi firms want to do that though? If the bus service doesn't exist in the first place, then the taxi companies have the monopoly.Redcar and Cleveland Council does already, so there's nothing seemingly stopping another council doing that.
A better solution would be to allow local authorities to run their own municipal bus companies again, which would allow the commercial gap to be plugged without giving more work to the private sector.
"seen Uttoxeter a town of 19k doesn't have a single evening or Sunday service at all"
It never did, even 40 years ago, (when it was, admittedly, half the size) well before de-regulation. The town was also served by a hotch-potch of services, mostly Stevo's, which ran a town circular and a couple of different routes to Burton, but also PMT, which ran to Hanley and whatever it was ran to Stafford. There was a infrequent service to Derby but people tended to catch the train, instead.
A lot of people did a lot of walking, back then!
Maybe the question should be asked are local authorities the best organisations to run local bus services. I would argue in their present state they are not. Many councils are bureaucratic, risk averse and dominated by political factions.
You need an element of private enterprise to take risks and build new markets. I'd argue the late Spirit Buses of Rothbury made a valiant attempt at this. Things took a turn for the worse when the local council awarded the service to the lowest bidder, PCL Travel.
Charles
(13 Sep 2021, 10:42 am)tcts24 I never said it was moraly right. Capitalism is simply the system inplemented by consecutive govermenments voted in by the masses or some crap like that.
From what I'm told by a friend that works within the social sector of Hartlepool Council, one of the biggest funding problems is the lack of high value housing, meaning they have a higher proportion of band A properties than most other local authority areas, this coupled with over a decade of funding cuts = less funding for what's deemed as less important sectors, such as transport.
Other areas wich may affect the bus industry in the town are the exeptionally cheap taxi's - which again, I'm told make remarkably little profit. Whether this is because of cheap fares, cometition, or maybe a lack of social travel because of the low income much of the local population has due to high unemployment.
Whatever the solution is, it won't be solved overnight by a bus company resurecting long forgotten routes that few if anybody is going to patronise.
(14 Sep 2021, 7:18 pm)Charles41 Maybe the question should be asked are local authorities the best organisations to run local bus services. I would argue in their present state they are not. Many councils are bureaucratic, risk averse and dominated by political factions.
You need an element of private enterprise to take risks and build new markets. I'd argue the late Spirit Buses of Rothbury made a valiant attempt at this. Things took a turn for the worse when the local council awarded the service to the lowest bidder, PCL Travel.
Charles
(13 Sep 2021, 10:42 am)tcts24 I never said it was moraly right. Capitalism is simply the system inplemented by consecutive govermenments voted in by the masses or some crap like that.
From what I'm told by a friend that works within the social sector of Hartlepool Council, one of the biggest funding problems is the lack of high value housing, meaning they have a higher proportion of band A properties than most other local authority areas, this coupled with over a decade of funding cuts = less funding for what's deemed as less important sectors, such as transport.
Other areas wich may affect the bus industry in the town are the exeptionally cheap taxi's - which again, I'm told make remarkably little profit. Whether this is because of cheap fares, cometition, or maybe a lack of social travel because of the low income much of the local population has due to high unemployment.
Whatever the solution is, it won't be solved overnight by a bus company resurecting long forgotten routes that few if anybody is going to patronise.
(14 Sep 2021, 7:18 pm)Charles41 Maybe the question should be asked are local authorities the best organisations to run local bus services. I would argue in their present state they are not. Many councils are bureaucratic, risk averse and dominated by political factions.
You need an element of private enterprise to take risks and build new markets. I'd argue the late Spirit Buses of Rothbury made a valiant attempt at this. Things took a turn for the worse when the local council awarded the service to the lowest bidder, PCL Travel.
Charles
Having heard of a recent MG briefing in the 'Newcastle bus services that need upgrading' thread and the discussion around the lack of services in certain areas and apparent obsession with sending buses to town and city centres, but forcing councils to build bus lanes, it got me thinking about this twitter feed https://twitter.com/NELiveTraffic?s=09
I have a love/hate relationship with it. I see the benefits it brings, but some of the delays and driving annoy me (need to get out more).
Quite often, I see reports or live footage featuring certain pinch points and queues of cars, vans, waggons and the occasional bus.
I've no idea if these cameras and reports are focused on key pinch points and it is a deliberate decision to place the cameras there, but I really do notice the lack of public transport (or public transport that isn't focused around a wide area - see TVTE and 93/94) in the majority of those areas. A coincidence?
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...y-21804417
5 pound ticket for whole of north east? how much is an explorer currently? amd 1 pound for under 19's? oh to be young again!
(10 Oct 2021, 12:01 pm)Rob44 https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...y-21804417That's under half the price of an explorer, I think.
5 pound ticket for whole of north east? how much is an explorer currently? amd 1 pound for under 19's? oh to be young again!
(10 Oct 2021, 12:01 pm)Rob44 https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...y-21804417That's under half the price of an explorer, I think.
5 pound ticket for whole of north east? how much is an explorer currently? amd 1 pound for under 19's? oh to be young again!
(10 Oct 2021, 12:01 pm)Rob44 https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...y-21804417Day rover is currently £7.80 (Across Arriva,Go North East, Stagecoach, Metro, Ferry & Raill between Metrocentre and Sunderland)
5 pound ticket for whole of north east? how much is an explorer currently? amd 1 pound for under 19's? oh to be young again!
(10 Oct 2021, 12:01 pm)Rob44 https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...y-21804417Day rover is currently £7.80 (Across Arriva,Go North East, Stagecoach, Metro, Ferry & Raill between Metrocentre and Sunderland)
5 pound ticket for whole of north east? how much is an explorer currently? amd 1 pound for under 19's? oh to be young again!
(10 Oct 2021, 12:47 pm)Train8261 Day rover is currently £7.80 (Across Arriva,Go North East, Stagecoach, Metro, Ferry & Raill between Metrocentre and Sunderland)Isn't the Day Rover only within Tyne and Wear, so you can't cross into Northumberland or County Durham
Explore is £10.90
(10 Oct 2021, 12:47 pm)Train8261 Day rover is currently £7.80 (Across Arriva,Go North East, Stagecoach, Metro, Ferry & Raill between Metrocentre and Sunderland)Isn't the Day Rover only within Tyne and Wear, so you can't cross into Northumberland or County Durham
Explore is £10.90
(10 Oct 2021, 12:48 pm)streetdeckfan Isn't the Day Rover only within Tyne and Wear, so you can't cross into Northumberland or County DurhamUnfortunately. Seems a bit over kill. Your paying £7.80 to stay in T&W but you need £10.90 to cross the border. Still confused why the Explorer doesn't get you any futher on the Northern train than Blaydon or Sunderland since the ticket is valid all the way to Carlisle, Berwick & Scarborough (I think on the X93/X94) but it's probably been told before why it isn't
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(10 Oct 2021, 12:48 pm)streetdeckfan Isn't the Day Rover only within Tyne and Wear, so you can't cross into Northumberland or County DurhamUnfortunately. Seems a bit over kill. Your paying £7.80 to stay in T&W but you need £10.90 to cross the border. Still confused why the Explorer doesn't get you any futher on the Northern train than Blaydon or Sunderland since the ticket is valid all the way to Carlisle, Berwick & Scarborough (I think on the X93/X94) but it's probably been told before why it isn't
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(10 Oct 2021, 12:01 pm)Rob44 https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...y-21804417
5 pound ticket for whole of north east? how much is an explorer currently? amd 1 pound for under 19's? oh to be young again!
(10 Oct 2021, 12:01 pm)Rob44 https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...y-21804417
5 pound ticket for whole of north east? how much is an explorer currently? amd 1 pound for under 19's? oh to be young again!
(10 Oct 2021, 3:37 pm)Andreos1 Ironically (?) on the same page, there is a link for this: https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...g-21794039
Whilst I agree that lower fares are definitely a positive, to counter it - the state of the regions transport network is holding people back.
I've said it before - if people can't get a bus to and from work, they ain't gonna use it. No matter how cheap it is.
(10 Oct 2021, 3:37 pm)Andreos1 Ironically (?) on the same page, there is a link for this: https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...g-21794039
Whilst I agree that lower fares are definitely a positive, to counter it - the state of the regions transport network is holding people back.
I've said it before - if people can't get a bus to and from work, they ain't gonna use it. No matter how cheap it is.
(10 Oct 2021, 1:06 pm)Train8261 Unfortunately. Seems a bit over kill. Your paying £7.80 to stay in T&W but you need £10.90 to cross the border. Still confused why the Explorer doesn't get you any futher on the Northern train than Blaydon or Sunderland since the ticket is valid all the way to Carlisle, Berwick & Scarborough (I think on the X93/X94) but it's probably been told before why it isn'tBecause the Northern line between Blaydon and Sunderland is the only bit that is included within the Network One ticketing system.
(10 Oct 2021, 1:06 pm)Train8261 Unfortunately. Seems a bit over kill. Your paying £7.80 to stay in T&W but you need £10.90 to cross the border. Still confused why the Explorer doesn't get you any futher on the Northern train than Blaydon or Sunderland since the ticket is valid all the way to Carlisle, Berwick & Scarborough (I think on the X93/X94) but it's probably been told before why it isn'tBecause the Northern line between Blaydon and Sunderland is the only bit that is included within the Network One ticketing system.
(10 Oct 2021, 6:36 pm)IRHardy Because the Northern line between Blaydon and Sunderland is the only bit that is included within the Network One ticketing system.For great value throughout the region, you can’t beat Network One Explorer North East! It’s one of the most extensive schemes in the country, from the Scottish Borders down to Richmond in the south and Carlisle in the west
If the Explorer ticket was valid on more of the Northern Rail network, the Explorer ticket would be a lot more expensive. For example Northern sell a Tyne & Tees Day Ranger which is valid on LNER; Northern; TransPennine Express; CrossCountry services on the following lines: Morpeth - Darlington, Hexham - Middlesbrough, Bishop Auckland - Saltburn, Middlesbrough - Whitby & Middlesbrough - Northallerton. It is not valid before 09:00 and in 2019 it was £23.40 for Adult ticket - so more than double the £10.90 for the Explorer Ticket and it does not get you to Berwick, Carlisle or Scarborough (although the Explorer ticket is not valid on the Yorkshire Coastliner buses between York and Scarborough which is the only way you can get there by train):
Tyne & Tees Day Ranger
(10 Oct 2021, 6:36 pm)IRHardy Because the Northern line between Blaydon and Sunderland is the only bit that is included within the Network One ticketing system.For great value throughout the region, you can’t beat Network One Explorer North East! It’s one of the most extensive schemes in the country, from the Scottish Borders down to Richmond in the south and Carlisle in the west
If the Explorer ticket was valid on more of the Northern Rail network, the Explorer ticket would be a lot more expensive. For example Northern sell a Tyne & Tees Day Ranger which is valid on LNER; Northern; TransPennine Express; CrossCountry services on the following lines: Morpeth - Darlington, Hexham - Middlesbrough, Bishop Auckland - Saltburn, Middlesbrough - Whitby & Middlesbrough - Northallerton. It is not valid before 09:00 and in 2019 it was £23.40 for Adult ticket - so more than double the £10.90 for the Explorer Ticket and it does not get you to Berwick, Carlisle or Scarborough (although the Explorer ticket is not valid on the Yorkshire Coastliner buses between York and Scarborough which is the only way you can get there by train):
Tyne & Tees Day Ranger
(10 Oct 2021, 3:41 pm)deanmachine Agreed, cheaper, cross operator fares is a good start, but better links should be something that this is paying for too for it to make a proper change.
(10 Oct 2021, 3:41 pm)deanmachine Agreed, cheaper, cross operator fares is a good start, but better links should be something that this is paying for too for it to make a proper change.
