Reversing the decline in passenger numbers
Reversing the decline in passenger numbers
(10 Oct 2021, 8:41 pm)Andreos1 It needs to be imo, otherwise any growth from lower fares would only be temporary.
The changes to fares and the network could make numbers sustainable longer term, reversing the trends seen for decades.
(10 Oct 2021, 8:41 pm)Andreos1 It needs to be imo, otherwise any growth from lower fares would only be temporary.
The changes to fares and the network could make numbers sustainable longer term, reversing the trends seen for decades.
(11 Oct 2021, 7:48 am)Rob44 I hate to disagree with you Andreos and this is only from a personal perspective but if i could get to and from work.... about a 3-4 mile journey for say £10 a week i would actually put up with the waiting around, dirty buses, noisy kids and bad weather. Its the fact that if i were to buy singles it would cost me almost £10 per day and if i got a day ticket it would cost me £25 + per week. Especially with the cost of petrol! Obviuosly a direct bus to where i work would make it even more enticing but for me, and a quick poll in my office suggests the current cost of bus travel even when you purchase weekly and 4 weekly tickets puts people offIt really depends on where you live and work, if you travel in one 'zone', the prices are reasonable, if you travel from the end of one zone to the end of another, it's also reasonable. It's when you're in the middle that it gets pricey.
(11 Oct 2021, 7:48 am)Rob44 I hate to disagree with you Andreos and this is only from a personal perspective but if i could get to and from work.... about a 3-4 mile journey for say £10 a week i would actually put up with the waiting around, dirty buses, noisy kids and bad weather. Its the fact that if i were to buy singles it would cost me almost £10 per day and if i got a day ticket it would cost me £25 + per week. Especially with the cost of petrol! Obviuosly a direct bus to where i work would make it even more enticing but for me, and a quick poll in my office suggests the current cost of bus travel even when you purchase weekly and 4 weekly tickets puts people offIt really depends on where you live and work, if you travel in one 'zone', the prices are reasonable, if you travel from the end of one zone to the end of another, it's also reasonable. It's when you're in the middle that it gets pricey.
(11 Oct 2021, 7:48 am)Rob44 I hate to disagree with you Andreos and this is only from a personal perspective but if i could get to and from work.... about a 3-4 mile journey for say £10 a week i would actually put up with the waiting around, dirty buses, noisy kids and bad weather. Its the fact that if i were to buy singles it would cost me almost £10 per day and if i got a day ticket it would cost me £25 + per week. Especially with the cost of petrol! Obviuosly a direct bus to where i work would make it even more enticing but for me, and a quick poll in my office suggests the current cost of bus travel even when you purchase weekly and 4 weekly tickets puts people off
(11 Oct 2021, 7:48 am)Rob44 I hate to disagree with you Andreos and this is only from a personal perspective but if i could get to and from work.... about a 3-4 mile journey for say £10 a week i would actually put up with the waiting around, dirty buses, noisy kids and bad weather. Its the fact that if i were to buy singles it would cost me almost £10 per day and if i got a day ticket it would cost me £25 + per week. Especially with the cost of petrol! Obviuosly a direct bus to where i work would make it even more enticing but for me, and a quick poll in my office suggests the current cost of bus travel even when you purchase weekly and 4 weekly tickets puts people off
(11 Oct 2021, 9:29 am)Andreos1 That's the thing. For some who live 3-4miles and there is a direct route, it may be a viable alternative. For those needing 2/3 buses to get to work and the same back, it's not going to be an alternative - particularly if the car is not only quicker/direct, but the journey significantly shorter too.
I don't believe the vast majority of people live and work within a 3/4 mile radius and for the majority of those commuting to/from work, I reckon the lack of public transport impacts on their mode of transport. Just look at the major employment sites and the transport connectivity in those areas.
I agree pricing is a major factor. That goes without saying. I do think it is just part of the fix though.
(11 Oct 2021, 9:29 am)Andreos1 That's the thing. For some who live 3-4miles and there is a direct route, it may be a viable alternative. For those needing 2/3 buses to get to work and the same back, it's not going to be an alternative - particularly if the car is not only quicker/direct, but the journey significantly shorter too.
I don't believe the vast majority of people live and work within a 3/4 mile radius and for the majority of those commuting to/from work, I reckon the lack of public transport impacts on their mode of transport. Just look at the major employment sites and the transport connectivity in those areas.
I agree pricing is a major factor. That goes without saying. I do think it is just part of the fix though.
(11 Oct 2021, 10:14 am)Rob44 I've long said that people just use buses out of necessity. no access to car use the bus. Getting drunk use the bus. Streetdeck fan often says he prefers the bus to car but i believe he is learning to drive. Once hes done this and gets himself a motor he'll think why was i making 2 hour journeys when i can sit here in elegance and do the journey in less then half the time"! I know that was me before I got a car!!
(11 Oct 2021, 10:14 am)Rob44 I've long said that people just use buses out of necessity. no access to car use the bus. Getting drunk use the bus. Streetdeck fan often says he prefers the bus to car but i believe he is learning to drive. Once hes done this and gets himself a motor he'll think why was i making 2 hour journeys when i can sit here in elegance and do the journey in less then half the time"! I know that was me before I got a car!!
It’s been said many times that you can’t force people to use the bus. But one thing being missed is human nature itself.
When it comes down to it, would you rather drive yourself somewhere or share that space with other people you don’t know at a time not of your choosing?
I’ve personally been fortunate that I’ve lived in a relatively good area for public transport with frequent bus services that I can use. They obviously take longer than I’d like, but as I walk to work and use the bus for leisure, time is not important to me. However, it is to others.
I have a friend that lives just outside a semi- rural market town in a new build estate. He works from home and travels to the office 2/3 days a week. He has driven all his life. At the very end of his back garden he has a gate with a bus stop less than 2 minutes away. The buses from that stop operate four times an hour to within 5 minutes walk of his place of work. Two buses an hour via a quick route and two an hour via a slightly longer route.
He can buy a ticket valid on any 5 days in a month for just £19, perfect for his scenario. He can keep his car for the random trips he makes to play football or snooker. But he won’t use the bus for work, despite it being a viable option. Why? He told me he’d have to get out of bed 30 minutes earlier as he “knows what the traffic is like”. He and other like him are causing that traffic he is complaining about!
He isn’t the only one. I have family member that works from home 5 days a week. She lives on a bus route operating every 15 minutes to the place she does her shopping and makes use of the local services. £1.70 each way that would cost her and it would take around 20 minutes, but she uses the car instead! This is because she does her weekly shop there, so she can’t drag an ALDI trolley laden with goods on to the bus!
Two non-scientific real world examples of where a bus is clearly a genuinely viable option for the actual main journey being made, but for different reasons the people involved would rather drive.
If that sort of thing is happening where bus services are comparatively decent and at an affordable price, what hope is there of persuading long term car users travelling to and from areas where the bus service is not so good at present?
(11 Oct 2021, 6:01 pm)DeltaMan It’s been said many times that you can’t force people to use the bus. But one thing being missed is human nature itself.
When it comes down to it, would you rather drive yourself somewhere or share that space with other people you don’t know at a time not of your choosing?
I’ve personally been fortunate that I’ve lived in a relatively good area for public transport with frequent bus services that I can use. They obviously take longer than I’d like, but as I walk to work and use the bus for leisure, time is not important to me. However, it is to others.
I have a friend that lives just outside a semi- rural market town in a new build estate. He works from home and travels to the office 2/3 days a week. He has driven all his life. At the very end of his back garden he has a gate with a bus stop less than 2 minutes away. The buses from that stop operate four times an hour to within 5 minutes walk of his place of work. Two buses an hour via a quick route and two an hour via a slightly longer route.
He can buy a ticket valid on any 5 days in a month for just £19, perfect for his scenario. He can keep his car for the random trips he makes to play football or snooker. But he won’t use the bus for work, despite it being a viable option. Why? He told me he’d have to get out of bed 30 minutes earlier as he “knows what the traffic is like”. He and other like him are causing that traffic he is complaining about!
He isn’t the only one. I have family member that works from home 5 days a week. She lives on a bus route operating every 15 minutes to the place she does her shopping and makes use of the local services. £1.70 each way that would cost her and it would take around 20 minutes, but she uses the car instead! This is because she does her weekly shop there, so she can’t drag an ALDI trolley laden with goods on to the bus!
Two non-scientific real world examples of where a bus is clearly a genuinely viable option for the actual main journey being made, but for different reasons the people involved would rather drive.
If that sort of thing is happening where bus services are comparatively decent and at an affordable price, what hope is there of persuading long term car users travelling to and from areas where the bus service is not so good at present?
(11 Oct 2021, 6:01 pm)DeltaMan It’s been said many times that you can’t force people to use the bus. But one thing being missed is human nature itself.
When it comes down to it, would you rather drive yourself somewhere or share that space with other people you don’t know at a time not of your choosing?
I’ve personally been fortunate that I’ve lived in a relatively good area for public transport with frequent bus services that I can use. They obviously take longer than I’d like, but as I walk to work and use the bus for leisure, time is not important to me. However, it is to others.
I have a friend that lives just outside a semi- rural market town in a new build estate. He works from home and travels to the office 2/3 days a week. He has driven all his life. At the very end of his back garden he has a gate with a bus stop less than 2 minutes away. The buses from that stop operate four times an hour to within 5 minutes walk of his place of work. Two buses an hour via a quick route and two an hour via a slightly longer route.
He can buy a ticket valid on any 5 days in a month for just £19, perfect for his scenario. He can keep his car for the random trips he makes to play football or snooker. But he won’t use the bus for work, despite it being a viable option. Why? He told me he’d have to get out of bed 30 minutes earlier as he “knows what the traffic is like”. He and other like him are causing that traffic he is complaining about!
He isn’t the only one. I have family member that works from home 5 days a week. She lives on a bus route operating every 15 minutes to the place she does her shopping and makes use of the local services. £1.70 each way that would cost her and it would take around 20 minutes, but she uses the car instead! This is because she does her weekly shop there, so she can’t drag an ALDI trolley laden with goods on to the bus!
Two non-scientific real world examples of where a bus is clearly a genuinely viable option for the actual main journey being made, but for different reasons the people involved would rather drive.
If that sort of thing is happening where bus services are comparatively decent and at an affordable price, what hope is there of persuading long term car users travelling to and from areas where the bus service is not so good at present?
The reduction in services was quite visible when we popped into Newcastle, this morning. Eldon square bus station was quite empty.
(11 Oct 2021, 9:32 pm)BusLoverMum The reduction in services was quite visible when we popped into Newcastle, this morning. Eldon square bus station was quite empty.
(11 Oct 2021, 9:32 pm)BusLoverMum The reduction in services was quite visible when we popped into Newcastle, this morning. Eldon square bus station was quite empty.
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/10/glasgow...und-london
An interesting article on transport integration in Glasgow and how it can apparently happen when there's a big conference going on.
(31 Oct 2021, 4:16 pm)Andreos1 https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/10/glasgow...und-london
An interesting article on transport integration in Glasgow and how it can apparently happen when there's a big conference going on.
(31 Oct 2021, 4:16 pm)Andreos1 https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/10/glasgow...und-london
An interesting article on transport integration in Glasgow and how it can apparently happen when there's a big conference going on.
(11 Oct 2021, 10:45 pm)streetdeckfan Speaking of buses dawdling, the same friend ended up being late for work a week or so back because the 10A managed turn up late at High Spen despite it leaving Blackhall Mill on time.Driver might well have had a legit excuse sush as a delivery vehicle, car etc blocking the road beetween Blackhall Mill & High Spen or even several cyclists etc. Or the bus was in limp mode and had a fault.
I can't remember the exact timings but when I looked at Bus Times at the time it took them nearly 10 minutes to get up Mill Road, which would normally take 3-4 minutes, then spent 10 minutes doing the loop around the river streets, which would once again should only take 5 minutes. By the time it got to High Spen it was running 10 minutes late, and she ended up getting to Metrocentre about 25 minutes late. She said there was very little traffic on the route, it was just the driver going slow.
(11 Oct 2021, 10:45 pm)streetdeckfan Speaking of buses dawdling, the same friend ended up being late for work a week or so back because the 10A managed turn up late at High Spen despite it leaving Blackhall Mill on time.Driver might well have had a legit excuse sush as a delivery vehicle, car etc blocking the road beetween Blackhall Mill & High Spen or even several cyclists etc. Or the bus was in limp mode and had a fault.
I can't remember the exact timings but when I looked at Bus Times at the time it took them nearly 10 minutes to get up Mill Road, which would normally take 3-4 minutes, then spent 10 minutes doing the loop around the river streets, which would once again should only take 5 minutes. By the time it got to High Spen it was running 10 minutes late, and she ended up getting to Metrocentre about 25 minutes late. She said there was very little traffic on the route, it was just the driver going slow.
(31 Oct 2021, 4:16 pm)Andreos1 https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/10/glasgow...und-london
An interesting article on transport integration in Glasgow and how it can apparently happen when there's a big conference going on.
(31 Oct 2021, 4:16 pm)Andreos1 https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/10/glasgow...und-london
An interesting article on transport integration in Glasgow and how it can apparently happen when there's a big conference going on.
https://twitter.com/NELiveTraffic/status...-U5v4N_KvA&s=19
Where are the cars going? Where are they coming from? What public transport allows them to make that same journey? If there is any - what are the time differences?
Or is it all about bus priority measures and forcing the car users on to public transport?
Even if those drivers were driving to and from a place on a frequent bus/Metro route, it's not as binary as saying "you should get the bus or Metro instead"... until a time when catching a train further than Chester-le-Street or Morpeth is cheaper than driving, when it doesn't take two bus journeys to travel three miles to a friend's house, or when it isn't awkward (for those not within 5 miles of each!) to get to the Silverlink, MetroCentre or Dalton Park for a bit of retail therapy then barely anyone will switch from car to bus.
When you get a car, you probably won't have enough money for the weekly or monthly ticket that can only be used in the areas you're commuting to and from. People can't afford both, and the car will always win because that's what gets them around after their commutes.
(02 Dec 2021, 4:14 pm)Andreos1 https://twitter.com/NELiveTraffic/status...-U5v4N_KvA&s=19
Where are the cars going? Where are they coming from? What public transport allows them to make that same journey? If there is any - what are the time differences?
Or is it all about bus priority measures and forcing the car users on to public transport?
(02 Dec 2021, 4:14 pm)Andreos1 https://twitter.com/NELiveTraffic/status...-U5v4N_KvA&s=19
Where are the cars going? Where are they coming from? What public transport allows them to make that same journey? If there is any - what are the time differences?
Or is it all about bus priority measures and forcing the car users on to public transport?
(03 Dec 2021, 6:59 am)streetdeckfan To be honest, even as an avid bus user, if I had to choose between sitting on a packed bus or sitting in traffic in a car, I probably would choose to sit in traffic.I've seen polling which states 62% of car users won't switch to public transport for this very reason.
If there's one thing I hate more than sitting in traffic, it's having someone sit next to me on the bus.
(03 Dec 2021, 6:59 am)streetdeckfan To be honest, even as an avid bus user, if I had to choose between sitting on a packed bus or sitting in traffic in a car, I probably would choose to sit in traffic.I've seen polling which states 62% of car users won't switch to public transport for this very reason.
If there's one thing I hate more than sitting in traffic, it's having someone sit next to me on the bus.
(03 Dec 2021, 7:32 am)DeltaMan I've seen polling which states 62% of car users won't switch to public transport for this very reason.
(03 Dec 2021, 7:32 am)DeltaMan I've seen polling which states 62% of car users won't switch to public transport for this very reason.
(03 Dec 2021, 6:59 am)streetdeckfan To be honest, even as an avid bus user, if I had to choose between sitting on a packed bus or sitting in traffic in a car, I probably would choose to sit in traffic.
If there's one thing I hate more than sitting in traffic, it's having someone sit next to me on the bus.
If I need to be somewhere at peak times, I'll usually just travel there early and sit in Spoons for an hour or two to avoid it. But I suppose those that only those who work from home have that luxury!
(03 Dec 2021, 6:59 am)streetdeckfan To be honest, even as an avid bus user, if I had to choose between sitting on a packed bus or sitting in traffic in a car, I probably would choose to sit in traffic.
If there's one thing I hate more than sitting in traffic, it's having someone sit next to me on the bus.
If I need to be somewhere at peak times, I'll usually just travel there early and sit in Spoons for an hour or two to avoid it. But I suppose those that only those who work from home have that luxury!
