(04 Jan 2020, 10:02 pm)ne14ne1 Couldn’t you say Go North East are too dominant in Gateshead and Arriva too dominant in Northumberland then?
(04 Jan 2020, 10:02 pm)ne14ne1 Couldn’t you say Go North East are too dominant in Gateshead and Arriva too dominant in Northumberland then?
(04 Jan 2020, 9:24 pm)OrangeArrow49 I would like to see GNE introduce more new services in the West End, and Stagecoach withdraw some, like the 6/7/8 and 32/32A. GNE could introduce new services between Airport/Kingston Park and Metrocentre, Etal Lane to Newcastle via Westerhope. and Blakelaw and Denton Burn services to Central Station at peak times.
Stagecoach is too dominant in the West End.
(04 Jan 2020, 10:16 pm)S830OFT Arriva's network doesn't get much investment, hence if GNE started a new commercial service say Newcastle - Morpeth they may get a good number of Arriva passengers, as the amount of times I've seen the X15/X18 run late, with either a X14 or X16 behind is on a regular basis it seems now...
(04 Jan 2020, 9:24 pm)OrangeArrow49 I would like to see GNE introduce more new services in the West End, and Stagecoach withdraw some, like the 6/7/8 and 32/32A. GNE could introduce new services between Airport/Kingston Park and Metrocentre, Etal Lane to Newcastle via Westerhope. and Blakelaw and Denton Burn services to Central Station at peak times.
Stagecoach is too dominant in the West End.
(04 Jan 2020, 10:16 pm)S830OFT Arriva's network doesn't get much investment, hence if GNE started a new commercial service say Newcastle - Morpeth they may get a good number of Arriva passengers, as the amount of times I've seen the X15/X18 run late, with either a X14 or X16 behind is on a regular basis it seems now...
(05 Jan 2020, 10:04 pm)Storx There's a reason why Stagecoach is dominant in the West End, Arriva is dominant in SE Northumberland and GNE is dominant in Gateshead. No-one with a brain in the big 3 would change that. There's no benefit to any of them from a business point of view.
Do you really think Stagecoach is going to react by just sitting there and doing nothing...
Same as above, plus it's already happened circa 2007 with both of them nearly getting into serious trouble for secret deals about them not doing it again and who runs what. I'm sure GNE won't want to resurrect 'Sword, Spear and Shield' for the sake of it.
(05 Jan 2020, 10:04 pm)Storx There's a reason why Stagecoach is dominant in the West End, Arriva is dominant in SE Northumberland and GNE is dominant in Gateshead. No-one with a brain in the big 3 would change that. There's no benefit to any of them from a business point of view.
Do you really think Stagecoach is going to react by just sitting there and doing nothing...
Same as above, plus it's already happened circa 2007 with both of them nearly getting into serious trouble for secret deals about them not doing it again and who runs what. I'm sure GNE won't want to resurrect 'Sword, Spear and Shield' for the sake of it.
Bus operators competing against each other is futile in today's climate. What needs to be happening is more innovation and competition against the car and app-based services such as Uber and Blueline.
Customer service and "tone of voice" towards customers needs to change too. I bank with Monzo and they have some of the best public relations I've ever seen. Companies such as Arriva, GNE and Stagecoach should take some lessons. And I can't count how many times good PR is drilled into my head at the company I'm involved with - and our customers are some of the most satisfied in the industry (89% of customers are happy with us!). I cringe when I see some of Arriva's responses to Twitter and Facebook queries and complaints!
Routes, vehicles and staff need to be invested heavily in, they're the three things that run a bus company in the eyes of the public. A hard-to-understand bus network, complicated ticketing options, pitiful cross-boundary multi-modal ticket options, tatty and dirty buses and rude staff drive people away. A shiny paint job does nothing.
(06 Jan 2020, 12:29 am)omnicity4659 Bus operators competing against each other is futile in today's climate. What needs to be happening is more innovation and competition against the car and app-based services such as Uber and Blueline.
Customer service and "tone of voice" towards customers needs to change too. I bank with Monzo and they have some of the best public relations I've ever seen. Companies such as Arriva, GNE and Stagecoach should take some lessons. And I can't count how many times good PR is drilled into my head at the company I'm involved with - and our customers are some of the most satisfied in the industry (89% of customers are happy with us!). I cringe when I see some of Arriva's responses to Twitter and Facebook queries and complaints!
Routes, vehicles and staff need to be invested heavily in, they're the three things that run a bus company in the eyes of the public. A hard-to-understand bus network, complicated ticketing options, pitiful cross-boundary multi-modal ticket options, tatty and dirty buses and rude staff drive people away. A shiny paint job does nothing.
(06 Jan 2020, 12:29 am)omnicity4659 Bus operators competing against each other is futile in today's climate. What needs to be happening is more innovation and competition against the car and app-based services such as Uber and Blueline.
Customer service and "tone of voice" towards customers needs to change too. I bank with Monzo and they have some of the best public relations I've ever seen. Companies such as Arriva, GNE and Stagecoach should take some lessons. And I can't count how many times good PR is drilled into my head at the company I'm involved with - and our customers are some of the most satisfied in the industry (89% of customers are happy with us!). I cringe when I see some of Arriva's responses to Twitter and Facebook queries and complaints!
Routes, vehicles and staff need to be invested heavily in, they're the three things that run a bus company in the eyes of the public. A hard-to-understand bus network, complicated ticketing options, pitiful cross-boundary multi-modal ticket options, tatty and dirty buses and rude staff drive people away. A shiny paint job does nothing.
(06 Jan 2020, 12:44 am)OrangeArrow49 The bus will never compete with the car, a taxi or app-based service like Uber. Buses have their place, but are not true competition, and they never will be.
Customer service is poor on Stagecoach and outstanding on GNE in my experience, broadly speaking. However there has been good customer service on Stagecoach and poor customer service on GNE. GNE customer service is good on social media and live chat as far I know. Arriva has a reputation for poor customer service, but I never use Arriva so won't comment too much. Gateshead Central Taxis has terrible customer service and Stanley Travel has outstanding customer service. Customer service is clearly inconsistent within the companies, and the industry. There is work to be done for certain. Buses will never be perfect, and will never be the best way to commute.
(06 Jan 2020, 12:44 am)OrangeArrow49 The bus will never compete with the car, a taxi or app-based service like Uber. Buses have their place, but are not true competition, and they never will be.
Customer service is poor on Stagecoach and outstanding on GNE in my experience, broadly speaking. However there has been good customer service on Stagecoach and poor customer service on GNE. GNE customer service is good on social media and live chat as far I know. Arriva has a reputation for poor customer service, but I never use Arriva so won't comment too much. Gateshead Central Taxis has terrible customer service and Stanley Travel has outstanding customer service. Customer service is clearly inconsistent within the companies, and the industry. There is work to be done for certain. Buses will never be perfect, and will never be the best way to commute.
(06 Jan 2020, 12:44 am)OrangeArrow49 The bus will never compete with the car, a taxi or app-based service like Uber. Buses have their place, but are not true competition, and they never will be.
Customer service is poor on Stagecoach and outstanding on GNE in my experience, broadly speaking. However there has been good customer service on Stagecoach and poor customer service on GNE. GNE customer service is good on social media and live chat as far I know. Arriva has a reputation for poor customer service, but I never use Arriva so won't comment too much. Gateshead Central Taxis has terrible customer service and Stanley Travel has outstanding customer service. Customer service is clearly inconsistent within the companies, and the industry. There is work to be done for certain. Buses will never be perfect, and will never be the best way to commute.
(06 Jan 2020, 12:44 am)OrangeArrow49 The bus will never compete with the car, a taxi or app-based service like Uber. Buses have their place, but are not true competition, and they never will be.
Customer service is poor on Stagecoach and outstanding on GNE in my experience, broadly speaking. However there has been good customer service on Stagecoach and poor customer service on GNE. GNE customer service is good on social media and live chat as far I know. Arriva has a reputation for poor customer service, but I never use Arriva so won't comment too much. Gateshead Central Taxis has terrible customer service and Stanley Travel has outstanding customer service. Customer service is clearly inconsistent within the companies, and the industry. There is work to be done for certain. Buses will never be perfect, and will never be the best way to commute.
(06 Jan 2020, 11:09 am)Storx Personally for me the biggest problem as Omnicity has mentioned is the lack of multi-operator tickets especially across boundaries. For me I don't and probably most people they don't care whether it's GNE, Arriva or Stagecoach unless they have to use more than one and then fork up multiple tickets or if buy an explorer at £10.90 that used to be £9.20 until recently.
I know this is a bus forum but I always think rail is one of the areas that's majorly underutilised up here for example we have approx 10 buses an hour between Cramlington and Newcastle yet no-one uses the railway since it's in the middle of nowhere (I know they want to change this) and it's way to expensive if you have to use another service. It's similar with most the ECML stations or ever worse at Pegswood and Widdrington they have a token service. Why not have buses running north from these to Amble etc then get them into Newcastle in half the time and much quicker than actually driving but we're more bothered about having 4 express trains an hour running to Edinburgh carrying fresh air most the day.
It's the same along the Hexham line and the Metro Centre which are both massively underused. I bet most people don't even realise there's a train from Newcastle to the Metro Centre why not let metro tickets use it where it's an easy'ish change at Central rather than having at least 8 buses an hour from Gateshead and Blackett Street doing express journeys. That's how you realistically get buses off the road.
(06 Jan 2020, 11:09 am)Storx Personally for me the biggest problem as Omnicity has mentioned is the lack of multi-operator tickets especially across boundaries. For me I don't and probably most people they don't care whether it's GNE, Arriva or Stagecoach unless they have to use more than one and then fork up multiple tickets or if buy an explorer at £10.90 that used to be £9.20 until recently.
I know this is a bus forum but I always think rail is one of the areas that's majorly underutilised up here for example we have approx 10 buses an hour between Cramlington and Newcastle yet no-one uses the railway since it's in the middle of nowhere (I know they want to change this) and it's way to expensive if you have to use another service. It's similar with most the ECML stations or ever worse at Pegswood and Widdrington they have a token service. Why not have buses running north from these to Amble etc then get them into Newcastle in half the time and much quicker than actually driving but we're more bothered about having 4 express trains an hour running to Edinburgh carrying fresh air most the day.
It's the same along the Hexham line and the Metro Centre which are both massively underused. I bet most people don't even realise there's a train from Newcastle to the Metro Centre why not let metro tickets use it where it's an easy'ish change at Central rather than having at least 8 buses an hour from Gateshead and Blackett Street doing express journeys. That's how you realistically get buses off the road.
(06 Jan 2020, 1:20 am)omnicity4659 And with that sort of attitude, they will never compete.
When you want to attract customers away from someone else, you have to look at what their current provider does right and then build on it. Not only that, but customers sometimes have the best suggestions too, and these shouldn't just be filed away by Customer Services, they should go straight to the top and get looked at by someone who can bring change.
Arriva, with a bit of work, could attract me out of my Audi and onto their X21. To do that, you look at what the car offers, it offers flexibility, convenience, consistency and a set price (diesel) which I can calculate my journey costs with. My car also has comfortable (fabric!) seats, ample legroom and charging points which work consistently.
Arriva, and fellow bus operators can take this and offer something better.
Fares
If I wanted to travel to the Metrocentre, I'd have to pay £10.90, and £20.60 for a family. That would be getting the Arriva bus to Newcastle, and then changing to GNE bus from there. In the car, it would cost me just over a fiver in fuel for a round trip. That £10.90/£20.60 ticket is extortion compared to the car, but if you lower the percentage of profit gained from that sale, then it starts to become more affordable.
Another thing, if someone who lived in Morpeth had to commute to Durham or Sunderland every day, they'd have to get a separate Arriva and Metro/GNE/Network One ticket to complete their journey, not only is this inconvenient, it's complicated for new customers and it's unnecessary.
Something better would be a smartcard, or maybe a contactless PAYG set-up (similar to London) where you hop on a bus or Metro, regardless of the operator and it'll charge you a cheap rate. No having to buy multi-modal tickets, no worrying about who operates what. Just simplified easy transfers between operators.
The current ticketing set-up would have potential customers grabbing their car keys and not downloading a bus company's app.
Lower, easier-to-understand fares = more customers, more profit long term.
On-board service levels
Comfortable seating (as tested by real customers for long durations of time), a clean hygienic bus, fast reliable Wi-Fi and phone charging, real-time disruption information and places to socialise. As standard.
Then we move to customer service, the driver will be polite and knowledgeable, invested in consistently by the company - which in itself makes them actually cared for in work, in turn, they will treat the customers with the same level of care. Having loads of buses painted in special liveries wanting outsiders to "join the team" shows that there is a serious retention problem and that the money being spent on combating the high turnover should actually be spent on existing staff.
Customer Service teams should be locally based and knowledgeable about the service they provide. I mentioned Monzo earlier, I had a problem with the app when signing up, I used the in-app chat service and they fixed it in 5 seconds. Throughout the conversation, the advisor responded to messages instantly, called me by my preferred name and was courteous and polite. This should be a feature within bus company apps, if I have a question about fares or services, or I encountered a problem, I should be able to go into the app, and talk to someone there and then. Not crawl through websites, contact forms, posting it publicly on Facebook or Twitter or having to pick up a phone.
And those are just a few examples about how bus operators could take my (as well as other people's!) custom away from Audi and Shell.
(06 Jan 2020, 11:09 am)Storx Personally for me the biggest problem as Omnicity has mentioned is the lack of multi-operator tickets especially across boundaries. For me I don't and probably most people they don't care whether it's GNE, Arriva or Stagecoach unless they have to use more than one and then fork up multiple tickets or if buy an explorer at £10.90 that used to be £9.20 until recently.
I know this is a bus forum but I always think rail is one of the areas that's majorly underutilised up here for example we have approx 10 buses an hour between Cramlington and Newcastle yet no-one uses the railway since it's in the middle of nowhere (I know they want to change this) and it's way to expensive if you have to use another service. It's similar with most the ECML stations or ever worse at Pegswood and Widdrington they have a token service. Why not have buses running north from these to Amble etc then get them into Newcastle in half the time and much quicker than actually driving but we're more bothered about having 4 express trains an hour running to Edinburgh carrying fresh air most the day.
It's the same along the Hexham line and the Metro Centre which are both massively underused. I bet most people don't even realise there's a train from Newcastle to the Metro Centre why not let metro tickets use it where it's an easy'ish change at Central rather than having at least 8 buses an hour from Gateshead and Blackett Street doing express journeys. That's how you realistically get buses off the road.
(06 Jan 2020, 11:55 am)Ds1197 The rail services in the North East is pretty Crap that's why most people use the bus and large areas of the North East are no where near a train station. Take Hexham for example I'd rather get the bus so I don't need to walk up a steep hill. If cites are really serious about clean air they should think about banning cars all together Newcastle and Durham already have a park and ride sites and some metro station offer parking
(06 Jan 2020, 1:20 am)omnicity4659 And with that sort of attitude, they will never compete.
When you want to attract customers away from someone else, you have to look at what their current provider does right and then build on it. Not only that, but customers sometimes have the best suggestions too, and these shouldn't just be filed away by Customer Services, they should go straight to the top and get looked at by someone who can bring change.
Arriva, with a bit of work, could attract me out of my Audi and onto their X21. To do that, you look at what the car offers, it offers flexibility, convenience, consistency and a set price (diesel) which I can calculate my journey costs with. My car also has comfortable (fabric!) seats, ample legroom and charging points which work consistently.
Arriva, and fellow bus operators can take this and offer something better.
Fares
If I wanted to travel to the Metrocentre, I'd have to pay £10.90, and £20.60 for a family. That would be getting the Arriva bus to Newcastle, and then changing to GNE bus from there. In the car, it would cost me just over a fiver in fuel for a round trip. That £10.90/£20.60 ticket is extortion compared to the car, but if you lower the percentage of profit gained from that sale, then it starts to become more affordable.
Another thing, if someone who lived in Morpeth had to commute to Durham or Sunderland every day, they'd have to get a separate Arriva and Metro/GNE/Network One ticket to complete their journey, not only is this inconvenient, it's complicated for new customers and it's unnecessary.
Something better would be a smartcard, or maybe a contactless PAYG set-up (similar to London) where you hop on a bus or Metro, regardless of the operator and it'll charge you a cheap rate. No having to buy multi-modal tickets, no worrying about who operates what. Just simplified easy transfers between operators.
The current ticketing set-up would have potential customers grabbing their car keys and not downloading a bus company's app.
Lower, easier-to-understand fares = more customers, more profit long term.
On-board service levels
Comfortable seating (as tested by real customers for long durations of time), a clean hygienic bus, fast reliable Wi-Fi and phone charging, real-time disruption information and places to socialise. As standard.
Then we move to customer service, the driver will be polite and knowledgeable, invested in consistently by the company - which in itself makes them actually cared for in work, in turn, they will treat the customers with the same level of care. Having loads of buses painted in special liveries wanting outsiders to "join the team" shows that there is a serious retention problem and that the money being spent on combating the high turnover should actually be spent on existing staff.
Customer Service teams should be locally based and knowledgeable about the service they provide. I mentioned Monzo earlier, I had a problem with the app when signing up, I used the in-app chat service and they fixed it in 5 seconds. Throughout the conversation, the advisor responded to messages instantly, called me by my preferred name and was courteous and polite. This should be a feature within bus company apps, if I have a question about fares or services, or I encountered a problem, I should be able to go into the app, and talk to someone there and then. Not crawl through websites, contact forms, posting it publicly on Facebook or Twitter or having to pick up a phone.
And those are just a few examples about how bus operators could take my (as well as other people's!) custom away from Audi and Shell.
(06 Jan 2020, 11:09 am)Storx Personally for me the biggest problem as Omnicity has mentioned is the lack of multi-operator tickets especially across boundaries. For me I don't and probably most people they don't care whether it's GNE, Arriva or Stagecoach unless they have to use more than one and then fork up multiple tickets or if buy an explorer at £10.90 that used to be £9.20 until recently.
I know this is a bus forum but I always think rail is one of the areas that's majorly underutilised up here for example we have approx 10 buses an hour between Cramlington and Newcastle yet no-one uses the railway since it's in the middle of nowhere (I know they want to change this) and it's way to expensive if you have to use another service. It's similar with most the ECML stations or ever worse at Pegswood and Widdrington they have a token service. Why not have buses running north from these to Amble etc then get them into Newcastle in half the time and much quicker than actually driving but we're more bothered about having 4 express trains an hour running to Edinburgh carrying fresh air most the day.
It's the same along the Hexham line and the Metro Centre which are both massively underused. I bet most people don't even realise there's a train from Newcastle to the Metro Centre why not let metro tickets use it where it's an easy'ish change at Central rather than having at least 8 buses an hour from Gateshead and Blackett Street doing express journeys. That's how you realistically get buses off the road.
(06 Jan 2020, 11:55 am)Ds1197 The rail services in the North East is pretty Crap that's why most people use the bus and large areas of the North East are no where near a train station. Take Hexham for example I'd rather get the bus so I don't need to walk up a steep hill. If cites are really serious about clean air they should think about banning cars all together Newcastle and Durham already have a park and ride sites and some metro station offer parking
6332 is tracking as 5395, from Bus Times it looks like it had the ticket machine swapped over yesterday evening
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I think bus services are unfair, some places are 'territories' exclusively operated by a single operator, other places are dominated by an operator but have some rival operator services, and then we have places with lots of buses from lots of different operators, possibly too many buses in some cases. In the West End of Newcastle, I always found Stagecoach to be the exclusive operator, but Gosforth is actually dominated by Arriva and Denton Burn has all the big three and other services, despite being dominated by Stagecoach. Thankfully, I am therefore able to access services from all of the big three if required, although Stagecoach is the main player across the West End. Territories are ridiculous, they limit where passengers can travel without being 'disloyal' and having to pay more. Dominant is fine, if slightly inconvenient, but exclusive operations I don't like. Ideally passengers should be able to choose from the big three, not be forced to use any of them in particular.
(06 Jan 2020, 5:14 pm)OrangeArrow49 I think bus services are unfair, some places are 'territories' exclusively operated by a single operator, other places are dominated by an operator but have some rival operator services, and then we have places with lots of buses from lots of different operators, possibly too many buses in some cases. In the West End of Newcastle, I always found Stagecoach to be the exclusive operator, but Gosforth is actually dominated by Arriva and Denton Burn has all the big three and other services, despite being dominated by Stagecoach. Thankfully, I am therefore able to access services from all of the big three if required, although Stagecoach is the main player across the West End. Territories are ridiculous, they limit where passengers can travel without being 'disloyal' and having to pay more. Dominant is fine, if slightly inconvenient, but exclusive operations I don't like. Ideally passengers should be able to choose from the big three, not be forced to use any of them in particular.
Redcar is dominated by Arriva, both buses and trains...
It would be nice to see the X9 or X10 extended to Redcar to compete with the X3/4, and offer new direct links to Dalton Park and Newcastle...
(06 Jan 2020, 5:14 pm)OrangeArrow49 I think bus services are unfair, some places are 'territories' exclusively operated by a single operator, other places are dominated by an operator but have some rival operator services, and then we have places with lots of buses from lots of different operators, possibly too many buses in some cases. In the West End of Newcastle, I always found Stagecoach to be the exclusive operator, but Gosforth is actually dominated by Arriva and Denton Burn has all the big three and other services, despite being dominated by Stagecoach. Thankfully, I am therefore able to access services from all of the big three if required, although Stagecoach is the main player across the West End. Territories are ridiculous, they limit where passengers can travel without being 'disloyal' and having to pay more. Dominant is fine, if slightly inconvenient, but exclusive operations I don't like. Ideally passengers should be able to choose from the big three, not be forced to use any of them in particular.
Redcar is dominated by Arriva, both buses and trains...
It would be nice to see the X9 or X10 extended to Redcar to compete with the X3/4, and offer new direct links to Dalton Park and Newcastle...
(06 Jan 2020, 5:14 pm)OrangeArrow49 I think bus services are unfair, some places are 'territories' exclusively operated by a single operator, other places are dominated by an operator but have some rival operator services, and then we have places with lots of buses from lots of different operators, possibly too many buses in some cases. In the West End of Newcastle, I always found Stagecoach to be the exclusive operator, but Gosforth is actually dominated by Arriva and Denton Burn has all the big three and other services, despite being dominated by Stagecoach. Thankfully, I am therefore able to access services from all of the big three if required, although Stagecoach is the main player across the West End. Territories are ridiculous, they limit where passengers can travel without being 'disloyal' and having to pay more. Dominant is fine, if slightly inconvenient, but exclusive operations I don't like. Ideally passengers should be able to choose from the big three, not be forced to use any of them in particular.
(06 Jan 2020, 5:14 pm)OrangeArrow49 I think bus services are unfair, some places are 'territories' exclusively operated by a single operator, other places are dominated by an operator but have some rival operator services, and then we have places with lots of buses from lots of different operators, possibly too many buses in some cases. In the West End of Newcastle, I always found Stagecoach to be the exclusive operator, but Gosforth is actually dominated by Arriva and Denton Burn has all the big three and other services, despite being dominated by Stagecoach. Thankfully, I am therefore able to access services from all of the big three if required, although Stagecoach is the main player across the West End. Territories are ridiculous, they limit where passengers can travel without being 'disloyal' and having to pay more. Dominant is fine, if slightly inconvenient, but exclusive operations I don't like. Ideally passengers should be able to choose from the big three, not be forced to use any of them in particular.
What should the destination displays show on the evening X21 journeys that terminate at Chester-le-Street? I'm often seeing them in Durham just showing the standard daytime destinations for Newcastle which is a tad misleading.
(06 Jan 2020, 7:24 pm)Jimmi What should the destination displays show on the evening X21 journeys that terminate at Chester-le-Street? I'm often seeing them in Durham just showing the standard daytime destinations for Newcastle which is a tad misleading.
(06 Jan 2020, 7:24 pm)Jimmi What should the destination displays show on the evening X21 journeys that terminate at Chester-le-Street? I'm often seeing them in Durham just showing the standard daytime destinations for Newcastle which is a tad misleading.
(06 Jan 2020, 5:14 pm)OrangeArrow49 I think bus services are unfair, some places are 'territories' exclusively operated by a single operator, other places are dominated by an operator but have some rival operator services, and then we have places with lots of buses from lots of different operators, possibly too many buses in some cases. In the West End of Newcastle, I always found Stagecoach to be the exclusive operator, but Gosforth is actually dominated by Arriva and Denton Burn has all the big three and other services, despite being dominated by Stagecoach. Thankfully, I am therefore able to access services from all of the big three if required, although Stagecoach is the main player across the West End. Territories are ridiculous, they limit where passengers can travel without being 'disloyal' and having to pay more. Dominant is fine, if slightly inconvenient, but exclusive operations I don't like. Ideally passengers should be able to choose from the big three, not be forced to use any of them in particular.
(06 Jan 2020, 5:14 pm)OrangeArrow49 I think bus services are unfair, some places are 'territories' exclusively operated by a single operator, other places are dominated by an operator but have some rival operator services, and then we have places with lots of buses from lots of different operators, possibly too many buses in some cases. In the West End of Newcastle, I always found Stagecoach to be the exclusive operator, but Gosforth is actually dominated by Arriva and Denton Burn has all the big three and other services, despite being dominated by Stagecoach. Thankfully, I am therefore able to access services from all of the big three if required, although Stagecoach is the main player across the West End. Territories are ridiculous, they limit where passengers can travel without being 'disloyal' and having to pay more. Dominant is fine, if slightly inconvenient, but exclusive operations I don't like. Ideally passengers should be able to choose from the big three, not be forced to use any of them in particular.
(06 Jan 2020, 7:56 pm)Storx This is a problem with ticketing though blame the councils not the operators. If you have proper multi operator tickets you fix all the problems you explain there. All you'll end up with if you do what you want is 20 buses going along West Road competing against each other but the likes of the 6, 7 and 8 will be scrapped / run down to the ground as they'll be more focused on petty games. You just have to look at North Tyneside for that, you have 14 newish buses an hour running along the Coast Road - mostly carrying fresh air. Yet everything else is just second hat, there's no NSA's / USB's / WiFi etc. on any other service in the area. The 19 and Little Coasters arguably have some of the worst buses in the GNE fleet now. Similar with 57 (Arriva) with the battered darts. Competition won't improve things for the non core bus routes if anything it'll make them worse.
If you want people using buses the focus should be on being on time, good connectivity, easy to change between operators without hassle, ability to use bus, metro and rail on single tickets, regional smart cards / contactless with capping (like Oyster). Not who's the cheapest and has best customer service. The operator of the bus should be irrelevant.
(06 Jan 2020, 7:56 pm)Storx This is a problem with ticketing though blame the councils not the operators. If you have proper multi operator tickets you fix all the problems you explain there. All you'll end up with if you do what you want is 20 buses going along West Road competing against each other but the likes of the 6, 7 and 8 will be scrapped / run down to the ground as they'll be more focused on petty games. You just have to look at North Tyneside for that, you have 14 newish buses an hour running along the Coast Road - mostly carrying fresh air. Yet everything else is just second hat, there's no NSA's / USB's / WiFi etc. on any other service in the area. The 19 and Little Coasters arguably have some of the worst buses in the GNE fleet now. Similar with 57 (Arriva) with the battered darts. Competition won't improve things for the non core bus routes if anything it'll make them worse.
If you want people using buses the focus should be on being on time, good connectivity, easy to change between operators without hassle, ability to use bus, metro and rail on single tickets, regional smart cards / contactless with capping (like Oyster). Not who's the cheapest and has best customer service. The operator of the bus should be irrelevant.
(06 Jan 2020, 8:30 pm)Rob44 I dont think GNE would dare to enter stagevoach territory - Remember MAGIC BUSES!!
(06 Jan 2020, 8:30 pm)Rob44 I dont think GNE would dare to enter stagevoach territory - Remember MAGIC BUSES!!
(05 Jan 2020, 11:23 pm)OrangeArrow49 I think we have a stupid bus network that discourages bus travel. We don't have competition, we have to get to wherever using whichever service is there. Always really annoys me in the West End having to buy a Stagecoach ticket just to get into town, or a Network 1 Day Rover to come home by Stagecoach later because I am going to GNE territory. Thankfully dominant is not exclusive and I can make use of the 74, X84/X85, 42A and Q3 as necessary (and preferred, because GNE is way better than Stagecoach overall). The main problem with Stagecoach being dominant in the West End is they are not really dominant anywhere else! I also don't like Stagecoach, and find the lack of competition makes them unreliable, and means they don't make an effort with anything. GNE are investing regularly to keep improving their network.On buses magazine it says X9/X10 will be receiving a newer upgrade but i think B5s will go on if they do. Big risk of putting 6308-6314 on X84/85.
The X84/X85 will be going X-lines in the future, will that be this year? Further improvement by GNE.
I don't particularly care who is dominant wherever, if Arriva territory I don't go there, if Stagecoach territory I deal with it, sometimes reluctantly, and if there is an infrequent service, like the 74, I use that instead. Stagecoach is not all bad, I just prefer the alternatives - GNE, GCT, Stanley Travel etc. I go to GNE territory, so it costs less to get a GNE service in the West End! Stagecoach dominance or not, if GNE is better, cheaper, and makes for a more pleasant journey I will happily use the very infrequent 74 or wait for the X84/X85, far less frequent than Stagecoach along that stretch, at times of day I can't make use of the 74.
If the 74 doesn't exist in the future, I will use the X84/X85 which hopefully will stick around! Stagecoach can run as many buses as they like, doesn't mean I have to use them!
(05 Jan 2020, 11:23 pm)OrangeArrow49 I think we have a stupid bus network that discourages bus travel. We don't have competition, we have to get to wherever using whichever service is there. Always really annoys me in the West End having to buy a Stagecoach ticket just to get into town, or a Network 1 Day Rover to come home by Stagecoach later because I am going to GNE territory. Thankfully dominant is not exclusive and I can make use of the 74, X84/X85, 42A and Q3 as necessary (and preferred, because GNE is way better than Stagecoach overall). The main problem with Stagecoach being dominant in the West End is they are not really dominant anywhere else! I also don't like Stagecoach, and find the lack of competition makes them unreliable, and means they don't make an effort with anything. GNE are investing regularly to keep improving their network.On buses magazine it says X9/X10 will be receiving a newer upgrade but i think B5s will go on if they do. Big risk of putting 6308-6314 on X84/85.
The X84/X85 will be going X-lines in the future, will that be this year? Further improvement by GNE.
I don't particularly care who is dominant wherever, if Arriva territory I don't go there, if Stagecoach territory I deal with it, sometimes reluctantly, and if there is an infrequent service, like the 74, I use that instead. Stagecoach is not all bad, I just prefer the alternatives - GNE, GCT, Stanley Travel etc. I go to GNE territory, so it costs less to get a GNE service in the West End! Stagecoach dominance or not, if GNE is better, cheaper, and makes for a more pleasant journey I will happily use the very infrequent 74 or wait for the X84/X85, far less frequent than Stagecoach along that stretch, at times of day I can't make use of the 74.
If the 74 doesn't exist in the future, I will use the X84/X85 which hopefully will stick around! Stagecoach can run as many buses as they like, doesn't mean I have to use them!
