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Northern (Arriva Rail North)

Northern (Arriva Rail North)

 
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8222



312
03 Jan 2020, 9:02 am #761
(02 Jan 2020, 5:42 pm)Jimmi From a regular user on the Bishop Line, whilst some cancellations occur at times (especially on weekends), the North East side of the network isn't too bad although could be better, the bulk of the issues have come from Yorkshire and the North West where services are being cancelled mostly due to members of train crew being unavailable and sometimes lack of serviceable trains being available.

I'm not quite sure what stripping them of the franchise is going to achieve as it's unlikely the current issues can magically be resolved. The increase of services and the need for more trains in this franchise was always going to be a struggle but delayed delivery of new trains and cascades certainly haven't helped them.

Trying to get a train from Seaham/Sunderland to Newcastle on a weekend is almost impossible. Various times the trains have stopped with the conductor saying no one is to get on because it's too full. No replacement coach, nothing. Just stranded. But this was going on before the days of Arriva Rail North. Sunderland is alright because you can still hop on a Metro - Seaham, however, is a nightmare

Aircraft flown on:

744, 77W, 772, E145, E190, E170, E175, E195, A319, A320, A320NEO, A321, A321NEO, A330-200, A330-300, A340-600 763, 752, 733, 737, 738, CRJ900, CRJ1000
Favourite aircraft: G-STBL/G-ZBKL

8222
03 Jan 2020, 9:02 am #761

(02 Jan 2020, 5:42 pm)Jimmi From a regular user on the Bishop Line, whilst some cancellations occur at times (especially on weekends), the North East side of the network isn't too bad although could be better, the bulk of the issues have come from Yorkshire and the North West where services are being cancelled mostly due to members of train crew being unavailable and sometimes lack of serviceable trains being available.

I'm not quite sure what stripping them of the franchise is going to achieve as it's unlikely the current issues can magically be resolved. The increase of services and the need for more trains in this franchise was always going to be a struggle but delayed delivery of new trains and cascades certainly haven't helped them.

Trying to get a train from Seaham/Sunderland to Newcastle on a weekend is almost impossible. Various times the trains have stopped with the conductor saying no one is to get on because it's too full. No replacement coach, nothing. Just stranded. But this was going on before the days of Arriva Rail North. Sunderland is alright because you can still hop on a Metro - Seaham, however, is a nightmare


Aircraft flown on:

744, 77W, 772, E145, E190, E170, E175, E195, A319, A320, A320NEO, A321, A321NEO, A330-200, A330-300, A340-600 763, 752, 733, 737, 738, CRJ900, CRJ1000
Favourite aircraft: G-STBL/G-ZBKL

Ryland



453
03 Jan 2020, 10:58 pm #762
However the amount of services from both transpennie and northern that end up being withdrawn is a ridiculous. Sure one of northern goals was to improve reliabily and effiecency of these services and so far it's ended up leaving passengers feeling annoyed and confused and squashed on short formed services
Ryland
03 Jan 2020, 10:58 pm #762

However the amount of services from both transpennie and northern that end up being withdrawn is a ridiculous. Sure one of northern goals was to improve reliabily and effiecency of these services and so far it's ended up leaving passengers feeling annoyed and confused and squashed on short formed services

29 Jan 2020, 2:31 pm #763
Government will take over Northern train services from March 1 as private operator stripped of franchise

Wonder if they'll keep the Northern branding, I don't think they can ever gain public confidence again unless they change it. People have too many bad experiences with them

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...n-17651745
streetdeckfan
29 Jan 2020, 2:31 pm #763

Government will take over Northern train services from March 1 as private operator stripped of franchise

Wonder if they'll keep the Northern branding, I don't think they can ever gain public confidence again unless they change it. People have too many bad experiences with them

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...n-17651745

29 Jan 2020, 5:44 pm #764
Northern branding will be retained for now, with efforts centralised on recovering and improving the service.

In the future, a new brand(/s) will be announced.
omnicity4659
29 Jan 2020, 5:44 pm #764

Northern branding will be retained for now, with efforts centralised on recovering and improving the service.

In the future, a new brand(/s) will be announced.

30 Jan 2020, 9:56 am #765
(29 Jan 2020, 2:31 pm)streetdeckfan Wonder if they'll keep the Northern branding, I don't think they can ever gain public confidence again unless they change it. People have too many bad experiences with them

I would argue the vast majority of the public couldn't care less what its called. Public confidence will only come back when the service is reliable. 

If the service gets them from A to B on time in a semi comfortable state, they will gain confidence regardless of brand. A rebrand at this point without dramatic service improvement will just be seen as a wolf in sheeps clothing.
WheelBus1986
30 Jan 2020, 9:56 am #765

(29 Jan 2020, 2:31 pm)streetdeckfan Wonder if they'll keep the Northern branding, I don't think they can ever gain public confidence again unless they change it. People have too many bad experiences with them

I would argue the vast majority of the public couldn't care less what its called. Public confidence will only come back when the service is reliable. 

If the service gets them from A to B on time in a semi comfortable state, they will gain confidence regardless of brand. A rebrand at this point without dramatic service improvement will just be seen as a wolf in sheeps clothing.

30 Jan 2020, 10:00 am #766
(30 Jan 2020, 9:56 am)WheelBus1986 I would argue the vast majority of the public couldn't care less what its called. Public confidence will only come back when the service is reliable. 

If the service gets them from A to B on time in a semi comfortable state, they will gain confidence regardless of brand. A rebrand at this point without dramatic service improvement will just be seen as a wolf in sheeps clothing.

I agree to some extent, but I also believe that starting fresh like they did with LNER (although in that case they obviously couldn't keep using Virgin branding!)

I obviously don't think just changing the name would instantly make it better, improvement to the service would be needed as well!

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
streetdeckfan
30 Jan 2020, 10:00 am #766

(30 Jan 2020, 9:56 am)WheelBus1986 I would argue the vast majority of the public couldn't care less what its called. Public confidence will only come back when the service is reliable. 

If the service gets them from A to B on time in a semi comfortable state, they will gain confidence regardless of brand. A rebrand at this point without dramatic service improvement will just be seen as a wolf in sheeps clothing.

I agree to some extent, but I also believe that starting fresh like they did with LNER (although in that case they obviously couldn't keep using Virgin branding!)

I obviously don't think just changing the name would instantly make it better, improvement to the service would be needed as well!

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

30 Jan 2020, 10:07 am #767
My biggest issue with a re brand is the cost to do it all. I do not dare think how many millions of pounds of public money will be wasted changing everything over to a new brand.

It may be a moot point, like Virgin/LNER, they will probably have no choice but to re brand, i cant see Arriva wanting to allow there name to remain on the service when its been taken away from them. They may even own the "Northern" logo so would prompt a full rebrand.
WheelBus1986
30 Jan 2020, 10:07 am #767

My biggest issue with a re brand is the cost to do it all. I do not dare think how many millions of pounds of public money will be wasted changing everything over to a new brand.

It may be a moot point, like Virgin/LNER, they will probably have no choice but to re brand, i cant see Arriva wanting to allow there name to remain on the service when its been taken away from them. They may even own the "Northern" logo so would prompt a full rebrand.

Jimmi



10,966
30 Jan 2020, 10:08 am #768
(30 Jan 2020, 10:00 am)streetdeckfan I agree to some extent, but I also believe that starting fresh like they did with LNER (although in that case they obviously couldn't keep using Virgin branding!)

I obviously don't think just changing the name would instantly make it better, improvement to the service would be needed as well!

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
Improvements need to be prioritized over the name more than owt else in my eyes, wouldn't look good immediately giving it a new name and still having the same issues although at the same time it's well known that Arriva has been stripped of the franchise so to some extents may as well ditch the name immediately to at least assume it's instantly a better service being provided.

Unsure if trains will continue to be refurbished or not which is annoying as some of the 158s going around are in a shocking state, seats battered to hell and well worn down, not a pleasant experience at all.
Jimmi
30 Jan 2020, 10:08 am #768

(30 Jan 2020, 10:00 am)streetdeckfan I agree to some extent, but I also believe that starting fresh like they did with LNER (although in that case they obviously couldn't keep using Virgin branding!)

I obviously don't think just changing the name would instantly make it better, improvement to the service would be needed as well!

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
Improvements need to be prioritized over the name more than owt else in my eyes, wouldn't look good immediately giving it a new name and still having the same issues although at the same time it's well known that Arriva has been stripped of the franchise so to some extents may as well ditch the name immediately to at least assume it's instantly a better service being provided.

Unsure if trains will continue to be refurbished or not which is annoying as some of the 158s going around are in a shocking state, seats battered to hell and well worn down, not a pleasant experience at all.

30 Jan 2020, 10:10 am #769
(30 Jan 2020, 10:08 am)Jimmi Improvements need to be prioritized over the name more than owt else in my eyes, wouldn't look good immediately giving it a new name and still having the same issues although at the same time it's well known that Arriva has been stripped of the franchise so to some extents may as well ditch the name immediately to at least assume it's instantly a better service being provided.

Unsure if trains will continue to be refurbished or not which is annoying as some of the 158s going around are in a shocking state, seats battered to hell and well worn down, not a pleasant experience at all.
Fully agree. Improvements need to at least start before they think of spending money on a rebrand

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
streetdeckfan
30 Jan 2020, 10:10 am #769

(30 Jan 2020, 10:08 am)Jimmi Improvements need to be prioritized over the name more than owt else in my eyes, wouldn't look good immediately giving it a new name and still having the same issues although at the same time it's well known that Arriva has been stripped of the franchise so to some extents may as well ditch the name immediately to at least assume it's instantly a better service being provided.

Unsure if trains will continue to be refurbished or not which is annoying as some of the 158s going around are in a shocking state, seats battered to hell and well worn down, not a pleasant experience at all.
Fully agree. Improvements need to at least start before they think of spending money on a rebrand

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

Andreos1



14,155
03 Feb 2020, 8:12 pm #770
I had professional dealings with them circa 2016/17 (not long after they won the franchise) and it appeared that they were wanting to change and improve things.

It looked like things were slowly starting to unravel and key members of staff brought in to support the changes, appeared to up sticks and leave quite quickly. 
Quite why that happened, I'm not 100% sure. Although it's not too hard to look at a time line of events and get a good idea of when things started to go wrong. 
* Strikes on Saturdays. 
* Customer Panel ceasing to function. 
* DOO issues. 
* Old stock. 
* Refurbs and associated stock pressures. 
* New stock not being delivered on time. 
* Timetable issues. 
* Issues with pathing for local connect services. 
* plus a boat load of other issues, including the arrival of interim members of staff within key management roles. 

When my professional dealings ended, I saw quite a poor level of performance from a passenger perspective. 
Complaints were ignored initially and refunds not granted. I was in the fortunate position to have the names of a few people internally and they pushed my complaints forward. 
Quite where others stood in the same situation, I am not sure. 

A rebrand has appeared to work for LNER, although they have the luxury of being able to offer more 'on board' and had the basics to help them on their way. 
I'm not sure whether a rebrand would work in this case.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
03 Feb 2020, 8:12 pm #770

I had professional dealings with them circa 2016/17 (not long after they won the franchise) and it appeared that they were wanting to change and improve things.

It looked like things were slowly starting to unravel and key members of staff brought in to support the changes, appeared to up sticks and leave quite quickly. 
Quite why that happened, I'm not 100% sure. Although it's not too hard to look at a time line of events and get a good idea of when things started to go wrong. 
* Strikes on Saturdays. 
* Customer Panel ceasing to function. 
* DOO issues. 
* Old stock. 
* Refurbs and associated stock pressures. 
* New stock not being delivered on time. 
* Timetable issues. 
* Issues with pathing for local connect services. 
* plus a boat load of other issues, including the arrival of interim members of staff within key management roles. 

When my professional dealings ended, I saw quite a poor level of performance from a passenger perspective. 
Complaints were ignored initially and refunds not granted. I was in the fortunate position to have the names of a few people internally and they pushed my complaints forward. 
Quite where others stood in the same situation, I am not sure. 

A rebrand has appeared to work for LNER, although they have the luxury of being able to offer more 'on board' and had the basics to help them on their way. 
I'm not sure whether a rebrand would work in this case.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

GNE6312



1,091
05 Feb 2020, 6:03 am #771
The main issue with Northern in the north east is the Durham coastal line which won't be fixed unless northern finds a way to make the Service more frequent on that line which can't be done with them sharing tracks between Sunderland and pelaw Junction. The only way I would see that working is some sort of agreement between Northern & Nexus to withdraw the metro on this section or make it less frequent on this section as well as Northern running extra carrridges.
GNE6312
05 Feb 2020, 6:03 am #771

The main issue with Northern in the north east is the Durham coastal line which won't be fixed unless northern finds a way to make the Service more frequent on that line which can't be done with them sharing tracks between Sunderland and pelaw Junction. The only way I would see that working is some sort of agreement between Northern & Nexus to withdraw the metro on this section or make it less frequent on this section as well as Northern running extra carrridges.

06 Feb 2020, 1:27 pm #772
(05 Feb 2020, 6:03 am)GNE6312 The main issue with Northern in the north east is the Durham coastal line which won't be fixed unless northern finds a way to make the Service more frequent on that line which can't be done with them sharing tracks between Sunderland and pelaw Junction. The only way I would see that working is some sort of agreement between Northern & Nexus to withdraw the metro on this section or make it less frequent on this section as well as Northern running extra carrridges.

Plenty of paths available between Pelaw and Sunderland. Withdrawing the Metro is a silly suggestion and would be catastrophic for passengers and the local economy.
omnicity4659
06 Feb 2020, 1:27 pm #772

(05 Feb 2020, 6:03 am)GNE6312 The main issue with Northern in the north east is the Durham coastal line which won't be fixed unless northern finds a way to make the Service more frequent on that line which can't be done with them sharing tracks between Sunderland and pelaw Junction. The only way I would see that working is some sort of agreement between Northern & Nexus to withdraw the metro on this section or make it less frequent on this section as well as Northern running extra carrridges.

Plenty of paths available between Pelaw and Sunderland. Withdrawing the Metro is a silly suggestion and would be catastrophic for passengers and the local economy.

GNE6312



1,091
13 Feb 2020, 3:08 pm #773
A case to keep the pacers?
https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/18227...new-fleet/
GNE6312
13 Feb 2020, 3:08 pm #773

A case to keep the pacers?
https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/18227...new-fleet/

13 Feb 2020, 3:18 pm #774
(13 Feb 2020, 3:08 pm)GNE6312 A case to keep the pacers?
https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/18227...new-fleet/

Is it any surprise though when you think how much there is to go wrong on just about anything modern!
streetdeckfan
13 Feb 2020, 3:18 pm #774

(13 Feb 2020, 3:08 pm)GNE6312 A case to keep the pacers?
https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/18227...new-fleet/

Is it any surprise though when you think how much there is to go wrong on just about anything modern!

Jimmi



10,966
13 Feb 2020, 5:57 pm #775
(13 Feb 2020, 3:18 pm)streetdeckfan Is it any surprise though when you think how much there is to go wrong on just about anything modern!
Even discounting the technological aspects of new trains they still manage to pick up issues, had one of them last week and the cab door wouldn't securely shut and went to the toilet towards the end of my journey and had water drip down onto my head from the roof. For some bizarre reason the 195s when I've had them keep announcing that not all of the train doors can be opened as the platform is too short at certain stations, Halifax being one of them when it is not the case.

It's not just Northern that has had issues with their new stock either, virtually every new fleet introduced in the last two years has been plagued with faults. Like you say, same applies to pretty much anything these days.
Jimmi
13 Feb 2020, 5:57 pm #775

(13 Feb 2020, 3:18 pm)streetdeckfan Is it any surprise though when you think how much there is to go wrong on just about anything modern!
Even discounting the technological aspects of new trains they still manage to pick up issues, had one of them last week and the cab door wouldn't securely shut and went to the toilet towards the end of my journey and had water drip down onto my head from the roof. For some bizarre reason the 195s when I've had them keep announcing that not all of the train doors can be opened as the platform is too short at certain stations, Halifax being one of them when it is not the case.

It's not just Northern that has had issues with their new stock either, virtually every new fleet introduced in the last two years has been plagued with faults. Like you say, same applies to pretty much anything these days.

15 Feb 2020, 2:26 pm #776
(13 Feb 2020, 5:57 pm)Jimmi Even discounting the technological aspects of new trains they still manage to pick up issues, had one of them last week and the cab door wouldn't securely shut and went to the toilet towards the end of my journey and had water drip down onto my head from the roof. For some bizarre reason the 195s when I've had them keep announcing that not all of the train doors can be opened as the platform is too short at certain stations, Halifax being one of them when it is not the case.

It's not just Northern that has had issues with their new stock either, virtually every new fleet introduced in the last two years has been plagued with faults. Like you say, same applies to pretty much anything these days.

That's the issue with new things, theres always going to be issues. It's part of the reason I prefer staying a generation behind with all my technology and why we have never bought a 'new car' (and by that I mean at the beginning of the model life, we've bought several new cars that were towards the end of their life cycle). By waiting, all the issues are likely to be ironed out, or at least been seen before so the fix is known!

The Pacers aren't necessarily reliable, they've just been around so long that the maintenance team can see the issues before they get too bad and costly! With the new trains, they don't know what to look for yet. Plus, I bet they're like Trigger's Broom, there's nowt original left!
streetdeckfan
15 Feb 2020, 2:26 pm #776

(13 Feb 2020, 5:57 pm)Jimmi Even discounting the technological aspects of new trains they still manage to pick up issues, had one of them last week and the cab door wouldn't securely shut and went to the toilet towards the end of my journey and had water drip down onto my head from the roof. For some bizarre reason the 195s when I've had them keep announcing that not all of the train doors can be opened as the platform is too short at certain stations, Halifax being one of them when it is not the case.

It's not just Northern that has had issues with their new stock either, virtually every new fleet introduced in the last two years has been plagued with faults. Like you say, same applies to pretty much anything these days.

That's the issue with new things, theres always going to be issues. It's part of the reason I prefer staying a generation behind with all my technology and why we have never bought a 'new car' (and by that I mean at the beginning of the model life, we've bought several new cars that were towards the end of their life cycle). By waiting, all the issues are likely to be ironed out, or at least been seen before so the fix is known!

The Pacers aren't necessarily reliable, they've just been around so long that the maintenance team can see the issues before they get too bad and costly! With the new trains, they don't know what to look for yet. Plus, I bet they're like Trigger's Broom, there's nowt original left!

Robin57

Banned

67
03 May 2020, 11:49 pm #777
Have just got new icrs combine book and have found that all the class 144’s are now at Heaton depot is this true or a mistake! Robin57
Robin57
03 May 2020, 11:49 pm #777

Have just got new icrs combine book and have found that all the class 144’s are now at Heaton depot is this true or a mistake! Robin57

peter



993
04 May 2020, 12:31 am #778
(03 May 2020, 11:49 pm)Robin57 Have just got new icrs combine book and have found that all the class 144’s are now at Heaton depot is this true or a mistake! Robin57

Due to the introduction of the new fleet of 331's etc and limited space available at Neville Hill, the 144's were officially transferred to Heaton for maintenance purposes only following the withdrawal of the 142's. They did not officially 'operate out of' Heaton as it were i.e. they were not allocated to Heaton running boards. Due to COVID-19 the 144's have been parked up out of use at the Keighley & Worth Valley Railway, it's unknown whether they will be used by Northern again.
peter
04 May 2020, 12:31 am #778

(03 May 2020, 11:49 pm)Robin57 Have just got new icrs combine book and have found that all the class 144’s are now at Heaton depot is this true or a mistake! Robin57

Due to the introduction of the new fleet of 331's etc and limited space available at Neville Hill, the 144's were officially transferred to Heaton for maintenance purposes only following the withdrawal of the 142's. They did not officially 'operate out of' Heaton as it were i.e. they were not allocated to Heaton running boards. Due to COVID-19 the 144's have been parked up out of use at the Keighley & Worth Valley Railway, it's unknown whether they will be used by Northern again.

markydh



258
04 May 2020, 2:10 am #779
It’s impossible to link to, these days, but Northern’s December timetable application is open for consultation. Major changes afoot in all of the North East. Essentially, longer distance links will be severed to assist with punctuality.

For example, Morpeth trains will start / terminate in Newcastle, so will no longer connect with the Metrocentre. Similarly, most Hexham terminators / starters will only go as far as Newcastle.

It’s not totally clear what’s happening with the Durham Coast services, but there is mention of a second hourly path. It looks like they will also terminate in Newcastle, severing the link to the Metrocentre.

It looks like they are, once again, applying for a path connecting Middlesbrough to Durham and onwards to Newcastle and Carlisle via Stillington Branch. This has been rejected in the last few timetable periods due to the difficulty creating a reliable hourly path from the branch to the ECML without adversely affecting other long distance services.
markydh
04 May 2020, 2:10 am #779

It’s impossible to link to, these days, but Northern’s December timetable application is open for consultation. Major changes afoot in all of the North East. Essentially, longer distance links will be severed to assist with punctuality.

For example, Morpeth trains will start / terminate in Newcastle, so will no longer connect with the Metrocentre. Similarly, most Hexham terminators / starters will only go as far as Newcastle.

It’s not totally clear what’s happening with the Durham Coast services, but there is mention of a second hourly path. It looks like they will also terminate in Newcastle, severing the link to the Metrocentre.

It looks like they are, once again, applying for a path connecting Middlesbrough to Durham and onwards to Newcastle and Carlisle via Stillington Branch. This has been rejected in the last few timetable periods due to the difficulty creating a reliable hourly path from the branch to the ECML without adversely affecting other long distance services.

tyresmoke



5,299
04 May 2020, 9:53 am #780
(04 May 2020, 2:10 am)markydh It’s impossible to link to, these days, but Northern’s December timetable application is open for consultation. Major changes afoot in all of the North East. Essentially, longer distance links will be severed to assist with punctuality.

For example, Morpeth trains will start / terminate in Newcastle, so will no longer connect with the Metrocentre. Similarly, most Hexham terminators / starters will only go as far as Newcastle.

It’s not totally clear what’s happening with the Durham Coast services, but there is mention of a second hourly path. It looks like they will also terminate in Newcastle, severing the link to the Metrocentre.

It looks like they are, once again, applying for a path connecting Middlesbrough to Durham and onwards to Newcastle and Carlisle via Stillington Branch. This has been rejected in the last few timetable periods due to the difficulty creating a reliable hourly path from the branch to the ECML without adversely affecting other long distance services.
Out of interest where did you see this? I've looked through the track access applications on ORR site and can't see anything?

Forum Moderator   | Let us know if you have any issues

Service Manager, Coatham Connect

tyresmoke
04 May 2020, 9:53 am #780

(04 May 2020, 2:10 am)markydh It’s impossible to link to, these days, but Northern’s December timetable application is open for consultation. Major changes afoot in all of the North East. Essentially, longer distance links will be severed to assist with punctuality.

For example, Morpeth trains will start / terminate in Newcastle, so will no longer connect with the Metrocentre. Similarly, most Hexham terminators / starters will only go as far as Newcastle.

It’s not totally clear what’s happening with the Durham Coast services, but there is mention of a second hourly path. It looks like they will also terminate in Newcastle, severing the link to the Metrocentre.

It looks like they are, once again, applying for a path connecting Middlesbrough to Durham and onwards to Newcastle and Carlisle via Stillington Branch. This has been rejected in the last few timetable periods due to the difficulty creating a reliable hourly path from the branch to the ECML without adversely affecting other long distance services.
Out of interest where did you see this? I've looked through the track access applications on ORR site and can't see anything?


Forum Moderator   | Let us know if you have any issues

Service Manager, Coatham Connect

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