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Arriva North East: Latest News & Discussion - February 2020

Arriva North East: Latest News & Discussion - February 2020

 
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Dan

Site Administrator

18,099
23 Feb 2020, 6:49 pm #201
(23 Feb 2020, 6:41 pm)scanialover The X9/10 has rarely had vehicles that are suited to the demands of the route, the predominance of which, as we know, is on the A19. I've experienced at all levels; back in the day when Tees ran it as a joint operation with a collection of elderly vehicles being literally hammered between Middlesbrough and Newcastle right through to now with these B5's which look the part but aren't suited to the route. I never got to ride on the Panther, only saw it at M'bro Bus Station when it was on trial; it sure looked the part and would be a great advert to promote the service, whether these could cope with the non-motorway sections of the route I don't know.

In terms of a bus, I don't think there's anything out there on the market that's suitable for the X9/X10 that won't require replacement after a few years. In recent years, Go North East have had 5-litre, 7-litre and 9-litre engined buses running on these routes, and all after a few years have started facing reliability issues.

It's not too bad a business model to have - run buses for a few years on the X9/X10 then replace them once they start having issues (cascading onto less demanding routes). Ensures X9/X10 always stay at the forefront of innovation and other services reap the benefits too.

The only thing that could feasibly operate the X9/X10 services without issue would be interdeck coaches, which are a) very expensive, and b) unsuitable for the 'local' sections of the route.

Realistically I don't think Go North East would be considering replacement of these buses this year if it wasn't for the Newcastle CAZ coming into effect from January 2021. It's unusual to see more than one of these buses off the road, and now there's two dedicated spare buses (6334 & 6335), one would presume the allocation of single-deck buses will be a lot less frequent.
Dan
23 Feb 2020, 6:49 pm #201

(23 Feb 2020, 6:41 pm)scanialover The X9/10 has rarely had vehicles that are suited to the demands of the route, the predominance of which, as we know, is on the A19. I've experienced at all levels; back in the day when Tees ran it as a joint operation with a collection of elderly vehicles being literally hammered between Middlesbrough and Newcastle right through to now with these B5's which look the part but aren't suited to the route. I never got to ride on the Panther, only saw it at M'bro Bus Station when it was on trial; it sure looked the part and would be a great advert to promote the service, whether these could cope with the non-motorway sections of the route I don't know.

In terms of a bus, I don't think there's anything out there on the market that's suitable for the X9/X10 that won't require replacement after a few years. In recent years, Go North East have had 5-litre, 7-litre and 9-litre engined buses running on these routes, and all after a few years have started facing reliability issues.

It's not too bad a business model to have - run buses for a few years on the X9/X10 then replace them once they start having issues (cascading onto less demanding routes). Ensures X9/X10 always stay at the forefront of innovation and other services reap the benefits too.

The only thing that could feasibly operate the X9/X10 services without issue would be interdeck coaches, which are a) very expensive, and b) unsuitable for the 'local' sections of the route.

Realistically I don't think Go North East would be considering replacement of these buses this year if it wasn't for the Newcastle CAZ coming into effect from January 2021. It's unusual to see more than one of these buses off the road, and now there's two dedicated spare buses (6334 & 6335), one would presume the allocation of single-deck buses will be a lot less frequent.

mb134



4,131
23 Feb 2020, 6:57 pm #202
(23 Feb 2020, 6:41 pm)scanialover The X9/10 has rarely had vehicles that are suited to the demands of the route, the predominance of which, as we know, is on the A19. I've experienced at all levels; back in the day when Tees ran it as a joint operation with a collection of elderly vehicles being literally hammered between Middlesbrough and Newcastle right through to now with these B5's which look the part but aren't suited to the route. I never got to ride on the Panther, only saw it at M'bro Bus Station when it was on trial; it sure looked the part and would be a great advert to promote the service, whether these could cope with the non-motorway sections of the route I don't know.

Mechanically they'd be very capable, but they simply don't have the capacity without either increasing the frequency or ordering Panoramas - which would be even more expensive and then you struggle with what to do with them afterwards. I guess another issue with Panoramas is that you then have an 11 litre engine, further increasing costs. 

Standard E400MMCs have the 6.7L Cummins engine - a 34% increase in engine size on the B5TL, and are likely capable enough and would also be easier to displace onto other services afterwards. Scania MMCs obviously have the 9 litre engine but then are there many other routes in the GNE network which would need them over a standard MMC in the future? 

Aware this is verging into GNE discussion though so I'll stop there.
mb134
23 Feb 2020, 6:57 pm #202

(23 Feb 2020, 6:41 pm)scanialover The X9/10 has rarely had vehicles that are suited to the demands of the route, the predominance of which, as we know, is on the A19. I've experienced at all levels; back in the day when Tees ran it as a joint operation with a collection of elderly vehicles being literally hammered between Middlesbrough and Newcastle right through to now with these B5's which look the part but aren't suited to the route. I never got to ride on the Panther, only saw it at M'bro Bus Station when it was on trial; it sure looked the part and would be a great advert to promote the service, whether these could cope with the non-motorway sections of the route I don't know.

Mechanically they'd be very capable, but they simply don't have the capacity without either increasing the frequency or ordering Panoramas - which would be even more expensive and then you struggle with what to do with them afterwards. I guess another issue with Panoramas is that you then have an 11 litre engine, further increasing costs. 

Standard E400MMCs have the 6.7L Cummins engine - a 34% increase in engine size on the B5TL, and are likely capable enough and would also be easier to displace onto other services afterwards. Scania MMCs obviously have the 9 litre engine but then are there many other routes in the GNE network which would need them over a standard MMC in the future? 

Aware this is verging into GNE discussion though so I'll stop there.

23 Feb 2020, 7:02 pm #203
Whoops! My fault I think for not remembering bf where we are. It's been a long day !!
scanialover
23 Feb 2020, 7:02 pm #203

Whoops! My fault I think for not remembering bf where we are. It's been a long day !!

23 Feb 2020, 8:45 pm #204
Whoops! My fault I think for not remembering bf where we are. It's been a long day !!
scanialover
23 Feb 2020, 8:45 pm #204

Whoops! My fault I think for not remembering bf where we are. It's been a long day !!

BusLoverMum



5,276
24 Feb 2020, 7:58 am #205
Now here's an improvement: arriva are actually communicating on social media about places they're unable to serve due to the snow.
BusLoverMum
24 Feb 2020, 7:58 am #205

Now here's an improvement: arriva are actually communicating on social media about places they're unable to serve due to the snow.

mb134



4,131
25 Feb 2020, 7:01 pm #206
(23 Feb 2020, 12:23 pm)Storx I don't understand your obsession with decreasing the frequency of the 306 and 308. There have been no changes anywhere in the area which would result in passengers in using other services so if the numbers are down then they have more than likely moved to driving not to mention they've been every 15 minutes since forever.

See I think this is something that is hugely overlooked when it comes to Arriva, at least the Northumbria operations. Since the huge service changes at the start of the last decade, virtually everything has remained the same in terms of routes and frequencies. 

While there have been some alterations, such as the X20 up to Alnwick, the Blyth X30, 43 to Morpeth, by and large the (main) routes are the same. 

Then with frequencies, people know that if you're wanting to get from Morpeth to Newcastle there's a bus every 15 minutes, Bedlington to Newcastle every 10, Blyth to Morpeth/Ashington every 20 etc. While passenger numbers are falling across the country, this network stability is something that they need to take advantage of. If people know where the buses go and how often they are, improving vehicle quality on more of them may be the final push to get more people out of cars.
mb134
25 Feb 2020, 7:01 pm #206

(23 Feb 2020, 12:23 pm)Storx I don't understand your obsession with decreasing the frequency of the 306 and 308. There have been no changes anywhere in the area which would result in passengers in using other services so if the numbers are down then they have more than likely moved to driving not to mention they've been every 15 minutes since forever.

See I think this is something that is hugely overlooked when it comes to Arriva, at least the Northumbria operations. Since the huge service changes at the start of the last decade, virtually everything has remained the same in terms of routes and frequencies. 

While there have been some alterations, such as the X20 up to Alnwick, the Blyth X30, 43 to Morpeth, by and large the (main) routes are the same. 

Then with frequencies, people know that if you're wanting to get from Morpeth to Newcastle there's a bus every 15 minutes, Bedlington to Newcastle every 10, Blyth to Morpeth/Ashington every 20 etc. While passenger numbers are falling across the country, this network stability is something that they need to take advantage of. If people know where the buses go and how often they are, improving vehicle quality on more of them may be the final push to get more people out of cars.

L469 YVK



3,544
25 Feb 2020, 8:38 pm #207
(25 Feb 2020, 7:01 pm)mb134 See I think this is something that is hugely overlooked when it comes to Arriva, at least the Northumbria operations. Since the huge service changes at the start of the last decade, virtually everything has remained the same in terms of routes and frequencies. 

While there have been some alterations, such as the X20 up to Alnwick, the Blyth X30, 43 to Morpeth, by and large the (main) routes are the same. 

Then with frequencies, people know that if you're wanting to get from Morpeth to Newcastle there's a bus every 15 minutes, Bedlington to Newcastle every 10, Blyth to Morpeth/Ashington every 20 etc. While passenger numbers are falling across the country, this network stability is something that they need to take advantage of. If people know where the buses go and how often they are, improving vehicle quality on more of them may be the final push to get more people out of cars.
Well technically, it's every 20 mins if you take into account the 5/15 gaps as most passengers will end up using the X22 as that comes first. 

To be fair, Arriva ran a pretty stable network over the recent years. However, they do need serious fleet investment though. It would make sense now that the E400 comes with a 'ZF' stop-start option to replace the E400s on the X21 / X22 with 7541-50 to Blyth for the 308 (with 7551/52 as spares). X10 /X11 would also be another prime candidate for new vehicles too.

Going back to the Coast Road argument, it would be 6 and 2 3's either the 306 & 308 remaining at a 15 minute frequency or, reducing to a 20 minute frequency but both remaining on the Coast Road no longer serving Battle Hill Drive. However, with the news that GNE are dropping the 19, many passengers will be relying upon the X6 connection in Newcastle, which of course would either have to be withdrawn or worked using scholars / split shifts if the 306 & 308 was reduced to every 20 minutes. I think given the circumstances surrounding the 19, ANE will most likely stick with a 15 minute frequency on both services for the time being.
L469 YVK
25 Feb 2020, 8:38 pm #207

(25 Feb 2020, 7:01 pm)mb134 See I think this is something that is hugely overlooked when it comes to Arriva, at least the Northumbria operations. Since the huge service changes at the start of the last decade, virtually everything has remained the same in terms of routes and frequencies. 

While there have been some alterations, such as the X20 up to Alnwick, the Blyth X30, 43 to Morpeth, by and large the (main) routes are the same. 

Then with frequencies, people know that if you're wanting to get from Morpeth to Newcastle there's a bus every 15 minutes, Bedlington to Newcastle every 10, Blyth to Morpeth/Ashington every 20 etc. While passenger numbers are falling across the country, this network stability is something that they need to take advantage of. If people know where the buses go and how often they are, improving vehicle quality on more of them may be the final push to get more people out of cars.
Well technically, it's every 20 mins if you take into account the 5/15 gaps as most passengers will end up using the X22 as that comes first. 

To be fair, Arriva ran a pretty stable network over the recent years. However, they do need serious fleet investment though. It would make sense now that the E400 comes with a 'ZF' stop-start option to replace the E400s on the X21 / X22 with 7541-50 to Blyth for the 308 (with 7551/52 as spares). X10 /X11 would also be another prime candidate for new vehicles too.

Going back to the Coast Road argument, it would be 6 and 2 3's either the 306 & 308 remaining at a 15 minute frequency or, reducing to a 20 minute frequency but both remaining on the Coast Road no longer serving Battle Hill Drive. However, with the news that GNE are dropping the 19, many passengers will be relying upon the X6 connection in Newcastle, which of course would either have to be withdrawn or worked using scholars / split shifts if the 306 & 308 was reduced to every 20 minutes. I think given the circumstances surrounding the 19, ANE will most likely stick with a 15 minute frequency on both services for the time being.

dom crilley

Unregistered

 
28 Feb 2020, 5:08 pm #208
anyone know when arriva durhams fleet is set to have the new logo
dom crilley
28 Feb 2020, 5:08 pm #208

anyone know when arriva durhams fleet is set to have the new logo

28 Feb 2020, 6:31 pm #209
Nick Knox and his shoddy company in the local news again? Dormanstown operated service 81 making the headlines. If, as Mr Knox claims "he takes pride in the network of services his company" what does losing a couple of quid matter?

And then being to Newcastle today and isn't the operation by GNE just so much better than what we have down here on Teesside. New buses, branding everything about it.
Edited 28 Feb 2020, 6:33 pm by scanialover.
scanialover
28 Feb 2020, 6:31 pm #209

Nick Knox and his shoddy company in the local news again? Dormanstown operated service 81 making the headlines. If, as Mr Knox claims "he takes pride in the network of services his company" what does losing a couple of quid matter?


And then being to Newcastle today and isn't the operation by GNE just so much better than what we have down here on Teesside. New buses, branding everything about it.

mb134



4,131
28 Feb 2020, 7:41 pm #210
(28 Feb 2020, 6:31 pm)scanialover Nick Knox and his shoddy company in the local news again? Dormanstown operated service 81 making the headlines. If, as Mr Knox claims "he takes pride in the network of services his company" what does losing a couple of quid matter?

And then being to Newcastle today and isn't the operation by GNE just so much better than what we have down here on Teesside. New buses, branding everything about it.

See that you're conveniently leaving out the cuts to some of the Tyneside GNE services. 

Putting a bus in service for a few hours extra per day also doesn't just cost "a couple of quid". 

Again, I'm aware Arriva are far from a shining example of an operator, but majority of buses on Teesside are nowhere near retirement age, and Arriva's policy is (and has always been) to invest in large bulks rather than a smaller batch every year.
mb134
28 Feb 2020, 7:41 pm #210

(28 Feb 2020, 6:31 pm)scanialover Nick Knox and his shoddy company in the local news again? Dormanstown operated service 81 making the headlines. If, as Mr Knox claims "he takes pride in the network of services his company" what does losing a couple of quid matter?

And then being to Newcastle today and isn't the operation by GNE just so much better than what we have down here on Teesside. New buses, branding everything about it.

See that you're conveniently leaving out the cuts to some of the Tyneside GNE services. 

Putting a bus in service for a few hours extra per day also doesn't just cost "a couple of quid". 

Again, I'm aware Arriva are far from a shining example of an operator, but majority of buses on Teesside are nowhere near retirement age, and Arriva's policy is (and has always been) to invest in large bulks rather than a smaller batch every year.

Storx



4,481
28 Feb 2020, 7:46 pm #211
(25 Feb 2020, 7:01 pm)mb134 See I think this is something that is hugely overlooked when it comes to Arriva, at least the Northumbria operations. Since the huge service changes at the start of the last decade, virtually everything has remained the same in terms of routes and frequencies. 

While there have been some alterations, such as the X20 up to Alnwick, the Blyth X30, 43 to Morpeth, by and large the (main) routes are the same. 

Then with frequencies, people know that if you're wanting to get from Morpeth to Newcastle there's a bus every 15 minutes, Bedlington to Newcastle every 10, Blyth to Morpeth/Ashington every 20 etc. While passenger numbers are falling across the country, this network stability is something that they need to take advantage of. If people know where the buses go and how often they are, improving vehicle quality on more of them may be the final push to get more people out of cars.

This exactly, it's just stupid to chop and change things when you don't need too. If it doesn't work then you ending up with starting to butcher it which has happened with GNE in North Tyneside and Sunderland and also Stagecoach in Sunderland. Every time there's service changes lately it's reducting in services renumbering things, extending it here then reversing it. Extending another service then that not working and all the time numbers are going down.

You just have to look at the 11 for the prime example of it.

317 for years doing the same route.
Renumbered 17.
Extended to Cramlington to replace something 319? (that route is as bad if not worse).
Changed to 11 and removed from Holy Cross and extended to Newcastle.
Cut back to Wallsend again.
Now supposedly going back into Holy Cross (again) so full circle back to square one.

But in the same time it's been a 20 minute service at times down to 30 minutes and gone from full size singles which used to be busy to minibuses.

It's a similar story in Sunderland in the Silksworth area, every change there's an extension here, a cut there then another extension here. People get sick of it and just what's the point if the bus might not run again in a few weeks.

(25 Feb 2020, 8:38 pm)L469 YVK Well technically, it's every 20 mins if you take into account the 5/15 gaps as most passengers will end up using the X22 as that comes first. 

To be fair, Arriva ran a pretty stable network over the recent years. However, they do need serious fleet investment though. It would make sense now that the E400 comes with a 'ZF' stop-start option to replace the E400s on the X21 / X22 with 7541-50 to Blyth for the 308 (with 7551/52 as spares). X10 /X11 would also be another prime candidate for new vehicles too.

Going back to the Coast Road argument, it would be 6 and 2 3's either the 306 & 308 remaining at a 15 minute frequency or, reducing to a 20 minute frequency but both remaining on the Coast Road no longer serving Battle Hill Drive. However, with the news that GNE are dropping the 19, many passengers will be relying upon the X6 connection in Newcastle, which of course would either have to be withdrawn or worked using scholars / split shifts if the 306 & 308 was reduced to every 20 minutes. I think given the circumstances surrounding the 19, ANE will most likely stick with a 15 minute frequency on both services for the time being.

The next new buses for the X21/22 will be 2025 at least and the 308 around 2023 imo. Neither routes need new buses atm. If you buy new buses for those where do the Gemini's go? Get sold? There only full size buses are the 3 commanders, the few ex London buses dotted around and the Scanias (not urgent) that really need replacing and something like the X66/X67 in Darlington deserve investment over any Northumbria routes or the Yarm buses which haven't had new buses in years. The minibus fleet is where the investment is needed more to get arid of the darts and start getting the solos off (12 years).

The only 3 routes in Northumbria which I would say should get investment are the 35, 57/A and the 685. 35 / 57 / 57A to see off some darts and fleet standardisation and 685 because the Scania's are past it.
Storx
28 Feb 2020, 7:46 pm #211

(25 Feb 2020, 7:01 pm)mb134 See I think this is something that is hugely overlooked when it comes to Arriva, at least the Northumbria operations. Since the huge service changes at the start of the last decade, virtually everything has remained the same in terms of routes and frequencies. 

While there have been some alterations, such as the X20 up to Alnwick, the Blyth X30, 43 to Morpeth, by and large the (main) routes are the same. 

Then with frequencies, people know that if you're wanting to get from Morpeth to Newcastle there's a bus every 15 minutes, Bedlington to Newcastle every 10, Blyth to Morpeth/Ashington every 20 etc. While passenger numbers are falling across the country, this network stability is something that they need to take advantage of. If people know where the buses go and how often they are, improving vehicle quality on more of them may be the final push to get more people out of cars.

This exactly, it's just stupid to chop and change things when you don't need too. If it doesn't work then you ending up with starting to butcher it which has happened with GNE in North Tyneside and Sunderland and also Stagecoach in Sunderland. Every time there's service changes lately it's reducting in services renumbering things, extending it here then reversing it. Extending another service then that not working and all the time numbers are going down.

You just have to look at the 11 for the prime example of it.

317 for years doing the same route.
Renumbered 17.
Extended to Cramlington to replace something 319? (that route is as bad if not worse).
Changed to 11 and removed from Holy Cross and extended to Newcastle.
Cut back to Wallsend again.
Now supposedly going back into Holy Cross (again) so full circle back to square one.

But in the same time it's been a 20 minute service at times down to 30 minutes and gone from full size singles which used to be busy to minibuses.

It's a similar story in Sunderland in the Silksworth area, every change there's an extension here, a cut there then another extension here. People get sick of it and just what's the point if the bus might not run again in a few weeks.

(25 Feb 2020, 8:38 pm)L469 YVK Well technically, it's every 20 mins if you take into account the 5/15 gaps as most passengers will end up using the X22 as that comes first. 

To be fair, Arriva ran a pretty stable network over the recent years. However, they do need serious fleet investment though. It would make sense now that the E400 comes with a 'ZF' stop-start option to replace the E400s on the X21 / X22 with 7541-50 to Blyth for the 308 (with 7551/52 as spares). X10 /X11 would also be another prime candidate for new vehicles too.

Going back to the Coast Road argument, it would be 6 and 2 3's either the 306 & 308 remaining at a 15 minute frequency or, reducing to a 20 minute frequency but both remaining on the Coast Road no longer serving Battle Hill Drive. However, with the news that GNE are dropping the 19, many passengers will be relying upon the X6 connection in Newcastle, which of course would either have to be withdrawn or worked using scholars / split shifts if the 306 & 308 was reduced to every 20 minutes. I think given the circumstances surrounding the 19, ANE will most likely stick with a 15 minute frequency on both services for the time being.

The next new buses for the X21/22 will be 2025 at least and the 308 around 2023 imo. Neither routes need new buses atm. If you buy new buses for those where do the Gemini's go? Get sold? There only full size buses are the 3 commanders, the few ex London buses dotted around and the Scanias (not urgent) that really need replacing and something like the X66/X67 in Darlington deserve investment over any Northumbria routes or the Yarm buses which haven't had new buses in years. The minibus fleet is where the investment is needed more to get arid of the darts and start getting the solos off (12 years).

The only 3 routes in Northumbria which I would say should get investment are the 35, 57/A and the 685. 35 / 57 / 57A to see off some darts and fleet standardisation and 685 because the Scania's are past it.

28 Feb 2020, 8:02 pm #212
Touched a nerve there with my "couple of quid" remark! To be honest I'm all for service rationalisation; little point in running buses just in case the odd individual decides to have a look out and aren't these just the very people who are up on their soapbox when the latest round of service revisions hits the press? Arriva will have crunched the numbers and undoubtedly listened to the requests; I believe that Service 81 did go out to local publicity and obviously it hasn't attracted enough feedback to warrant a change of the plans.

In comparing my day in Newcastle with GNE against a day here in Teesside with Arriva it was just a 'tounge in cheek' comment to be honest and I don't know enough about the operations on Tyneside to say more.
scanialover
28 Feb 2020, 8:02 pm #212

Touched a nerve there with my "couple of quid" remark! To be honest I'm all for service rationalisation; little point in running buses just in case the odd individual decides to have a look out and aren't these just the very people who are up on their soapbox when the latest round of service revisions hits the press? Arriva will have crunched the numbers and undoubtedly listened to the requests; I believe that Service 81 did go out to local publicity and obviously it hasn't attracted enough feedback to warrant a change of the plans.

In comparing my day in Newcastle with GNE against a day here in Teesside with Arriva it was just a 'tounge in cheek' comment to be honest and I don't know enough about the operations on Tyneside to say more.

Cock Robin



2,778
28 Feb 2020, 9:10 pm #213
See the Facebook announcements a couple of days ago? Durham buses off for hours on end as they didn't have any replacement buses! Abysmal service.
Cock Robin
28 Feb 2020, 9:10 pm #213

See the Facebook announcements a couple of days ago? Durham buses off for hours on end as they didn't have any replacement buses! Abysmal service.

Storx



4,481
28 Feb 2020, 9:24 pm #214
(28 Feb 2020, 8:02 pm)scanialover Touched a nerve there with my "couple of quid" remark! To be honest I'm all for service rationalisation; little point in running buses just in case the odd individual decides to have a look out and aren't these just the very people who are up on their soapbox when the latest round of service revisions hits the press? Arriva will have crunched the numbers and undoubtedly listened to the requests; I believe that Service 81 did go out to local publicity and obviously it hasn't attracted enough feedback to warrant a change of the plans.

In comparing my day in Newcastle with GNE against a day here in Teesside with Arriva it was just a 'tounge in cheek' comment to be honest and I don't know enough about the operations on Tyneside to say more.

Isn't this what the point of the Teesflex is for communities like these instead of having buses running there for no reason. Obviously the 2 communities complaining here aren't part of it as they're in North Yorkshire but surely it would be better for NYCC to try and get them in the Redcar and Cleveland zone if possible rather than having Arriva without subsidy running them.

To be fair I think it depends on the depot as each of them have there good areas and some not so good.

GNE: Good (Gateshead, Consett, Chester Le Street, Hexham), Average (Washington, Sunderland (Just)), Not so good (North Tyneside)
Arriva: Good (SE Northumberland), Average (Jesmond, Darlington, Durham (Just)) - can't comment on other areas but Redcar sounds poor with Temsas on long distance routes etc.
Stagecoach: Good (Newcastle), Average (Sunderland, South Shields) - can't comment on other areas.

I must say I've used the X12 a few times and the state of some of the buses (I believe Durham) are shockingly bad. Getting off a Blyth Gemini and then onto a X12 one (when they had them) it felt they were two different buses - just damn right dirty and tatty in general. I believe the X12 one was a 61 plate and the Blyth one 59 so was actually newer aswell.
Storx
28 Feb 2020, 9:24 pm #214

(28 Feb 2020, 8:02 pm)scanialover Touched a nerve there with my "couple of quid" remark! To be honest I'm all for service rationalisation; little point in running buses just in case the odd individual decides to have a look out and aren't these just the very people who are up on their soapbox when the latest round of service revisions hits the press? Arriva will have crunched the numbers and undoubtedly listened to the requests; I believe that Service 81 did go out to local publicity and obviously it hasn't attracted enough feedback to warrant a change of the plans.

In comparing my day in Newcastle with GNE against a day here in Teesside with Arriva it was just a 'tounge in cheek' comment to be honest and I don't know enough about the operations on Tyneside to say more.

Isn't this what the point of the Teesflex is for communities like these instead of having buses running there for no reason. Obviously the 2 communities complaining here aren't part of it as they're in North Yorkshire but surely it would be better for NYCC to try and get them in the Redcar and Cleveland zone if possible rather than having Arriva without subsidy running them.

To be fair I think it depends on the depot as each of them have there good areas and some not so good.

GNE: Good (Gateshead, Consett, Chester Le Street, Hexham), Average (Washington, Sunderland (Just)), Not so good (North Tyneside)
Arriva: Good (SE Northumberland), Average (Jesmond, Darlington, Durham (Just)) - can't comment on other areas but Redcar sounds poor with Temsas on long distance routes etc.
Stagecoach: Good (Newcastle), Average (Sunderland, South Shields) - can't comment on other areas.

I must say I've used the X12 a few times and the state of some of the buses (I believe Durham) are shockingly bad. Getting off a Blyth Gemini and then onto a X12 one (when they had them) it felt they were two different buses - just damn right dirty and tatty in general. I believe the X12 one was a 61 plate and the Blyth one 59 so was actually newer aswell.

BusLoverMum



5,276
28 Feb 2020, 9:52 pm #215
(28 Feb 2020, 9:10 pm)Cock Robin See the Facebook announcements a couple of days ago? Durham buses off for hours on end as they didn't have any replacement buses! Abysmal service.
Would that have been Monday when many roads around Durham were impassable due to the snow?
BusLoverMum
28 Feb 2020, 9:52 pm #215

(28 Feb 2020, 9:10 pm)Cock Robin See the Facebook announcements a couple of days ago? Durham buses off for hours on end as they didn't have any replacement buses! Abysmal service.
Would that have been Monday when many roads around Durham were impassable due to the snow?

tyresmoke



5,303
28 Feb 2020, 10:08 pm #216
(28 Feb 2020, 8:02 pm)scanialover Touched a nerve there with my "couple of quid" remark! To be honest I'm all for service rationalisation; little point in running buses just in case the odd individual decides to have a look out and aren't these just the very people who are up on their soapbox when the latest round of service revisions hits the press? Arriva will have crunched the numbers and undoubtedly listened to the requests; I believe that Service 81 did go out to local publicity and obviously it hasn't attracted enough feedback to warrant a change of the plans.

In comparing my day in Newcastle with GNE against a day here in Teesside with Arriva it was just a 'tounge in cheek' comment to be honest and I don't know enough about the operations on Tyneside to say more.
Lets be honest who's going to miss the 81 between Guisborough and Stokesley other than a few ENCTS passengers (which NYCC reimbursement is shockingly bad anyway) and the odd fare payer? It's a shame, but it's clearly not viable and most other parts of the route are covered by other options anyway. Great Ayton still has the 28a which offers an hourly service to Stokesley which more than covers the demand there.

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tyresmoke
28 Feb 2020, 10:08 pm #216

(28 Feb 2020, 8:02 pm)scanialover Touched a nerve there with my "couple of quid" remark! To be honest I'm all for service rationalisation; little point in running buses just in case the odd individual decides to have a look out and aren't these just the very people who are up on their soapbox when the latest round of service revisions hits the press? Arriva will have crunched the numbers and undoubtedly listened to the requests; I believe that Service 81 did go out to local publicity and obviously it hasn't attracted enough feedback to warrant a change of the plans.

In comparing my day in Newcastle with GNE against a day here in Teesside with Arriva it was just a 'tounge in cheek' comment to be honest and I don't know enough about the operations on Tyneside to say more.
Lets be honest who's going to miss the 81 between Guisborough and Stokesley other than a few ENCTS passengers (which NYCC reimbursement is shockingly bad anyway) and the odd fare payer? It's a shame, but it's clearly not viable and most other parts of the route are covered by other options anyway. Great Ayton still has the 28a which offers an hourly service to Stokesley which more than covers the demand there.


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Service Manager, Coatham Connect

tvd



143
29 Feb 2020, 8:56 am #217
(28 Feb 2020, 10:08 pm)tyresmoke Lets be honest who's going to miss the 81 between Guisborough and Stokesley other than a few ENCTS passengers (which NYCC reimbursement is shockingly bad anyway) and the odd fare payer? It's a shame, but it's clearly not viable and most other parts of the route are covered by other options anyway. Great Ayton still has the 28a which offers an hourly service to Stokesley which more than covers the demand there.


It is a shame about the 81, years ago it was run with double deckers and now being cut back further.

Your point about the ENCTS pass holders is a valid one, and we never seem to hear any criticism of this scheme. Maybe if it was made public how much an operator gets from the council per journey made, it would be easier for people to accept why some buses can run at a loss.

Then we have the ridiculous situation in our area of yet more subsidy to that scheme in terms of the 30p charge pre 9.30am. When money is tight, why do councils feel the need to offer this?

For me, I’d make it consistent nationwide that these passes are off peak only, and even go further : charge a small fee per journey to OAPs, and ring fence that cash to be used locally to support later buses and routes which will never be commercially viable and need subsidies. More buses is better for everyone, and that would be a way to get some more cash to do it.
tvd
29 Feb 2020, 8:56 am #217

(28 Feb 2020, 10:08 pm)tyresmoke Lets be honest who's going to miss the 81 between Guisborough and Stokesley other than a few ENCTS passengers (which NYCC reimbursement is shockingly bad anyway) and the odd fare payer? It's a shame, but it's clearly not viable and most other parts of the route are covered by other options anyway. Great Ayton still has the 28a which offers an hourly service to Stokesley which more than covers the demand there.


It is a shame about the 81, years ago it was run with double deckers and now being cut back further.

Your point about the ENCTS pass holders is a valid one, and we never seem to hear any criticism of this scheme. Maybe if it was made public how much an operator gets from the council per journey made, it would be easier for people to accept why some buses can run at a loss.

Then we have the ridiculous situation in our area of yet more subsidy to that scheme in terms of the 30p charge pre 9.30am. When money is tight, why do councils feel the need to offer this?

For me, I’d make it consistent nationwide that these passes are off peak only, and even go further : charge a small fee per journey to OAPs, and ring fence that cash to be used locally to support later buses and routes which will never be commercially viable and need subsidies. More buses is better for everyone, and that would be a way to get some more cash to do it.

Cock Robin



2,778
29 Feb 2020, 8:58 am #218
(28 Feb 2020, 9:52 pm)BusLoverMum Would that have been Monday when many roads around Durham were impassable due to the snow?

No it wasn't Monday
Cock Robin
29 Feb 2020, 8:58 am #218

(28 Feb 2020, 9:52 pm)BusLoverMum Would that have been Monday when many roads around Durham were impassable due to the snow?

No it wasn't Monday

29 Feb 2020, 9:08 am #219
Nope, I with Tyresmoke on this one. Effectively penalising the majority - charging a fee per journey on the concessionary scheme - to please, and encourage, the minority is really not a workable solution. Service 81 between Guisborough and Stokesley has been losing money for years and who wants to travel late in the evening and run the risks posed by some of the undesirables that make this idea untenable. How many attacks have there being on buses, drivers and passengers recently? What I can't understand is why Arriva are apparently planning to enhance certain routes in the face of this.
scanialover
29 Feb 2020, 9:08 am #219

Nope, I with Tyresmoke on this one. Effectively penalising the majority - charging a fee per journey on the concessionary scheme - to please, and encourage, the minority is really not a workable solution. Service 81 between Guisborough and Stokesley has been losing money for years and who wants to travel late in the evening and run the risks posed by some of the undesirables that make this idea untenable. How many attacks have there being on buses, drivers and passengers recently? What I can't understand is why Arriva are apparently planning to enhance certain routes in the face of this.

29 Feb 2020, 11:59 am #220
Arriva Dormanstown/Whitby have a fleet of double deck vehicles, 7401-6, 7609/10 and 7424/5 (?). 10 vehicles in all. Why then are we all being shoehorned on to a clapped out VDL 1439 on the 1120 journey from Middlesbrough (29/02/2020). It just doesn't make sense!
scanialover
29 Feb 2020, 11:59 am #220

Arriva Dormanstown/Whitby have a fleet of double deck vehicles, 7401-6, 7609/10 and 7424/5 (?). 10 vehicles in all. Why then are we all being shoehorned on to a clapped out VDL 1439 on the 1120 journey from Middlesbrough (29/02/2020). It just doesn't make sense!

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