(07 Mar 2020, 9:11 pm)Jimmi I still don't get why the X21/X22 is seen as such a favourable route for investment on here considering there's other routes in the North East that are equally or even more deserving of new stock than that is.
Could see some newer stuff for the X18 and maybe X15 (hopefully) and cascade the MAX E400s to 35, X14 & X20 and older examples elsewhere too, likely Belmont to see off Lowlanders and Volvo B7TLs - saying that though, IMO Belmont could do with some Sapphire spec double deckers as there's not really enough to meet PVRs for the Sapphire routes now, especially since there's now a booked decker working on one of Belmont's 7 boards on weekdays - in an ideal world, would be great if all 7 boards were double deckers during the daytime.
(07 Mar 2020, 9:11 pm)Jimmi I still don't get why the X21/X22 is seen as such a favourable route for investment on here considering there's other routes in the North East that are equally or even more deserving of new stock than that is.
Could see some newer stuff for the X18 and maybe X15 (hopefully) and cascade the MAX E400s to 35, X14 & X20 and older examples elsewhere too, likely Belmont to see off Lowlanders and Volvo B7TLs - saying that though, IMO Belmont could do with some Sapphire spec double deckers as there's not really enough to meet PVRs for the Sapphire routes now, especially since there's now a booked decker working on one of Belmont's 7 boards on weekdays - in an ideal world, would be great if all 7 boards were double deckers during the daytime.
(07 Mar 2020, 9:58 pm)mb134 I think if we see investment for the X15/8 then it'd make sense to do the X14 as well - the Scanias are due for replacement soon anyway so it'd make sense to a degree. Would require 12 vehicles, 13 if there's a dedicated spare.Think the plan was for Yorkshire E400s to replace the B7TL Gemini's on the 306 but that hasn't quite worked out due to the delay in delivery of StreetDecks to Yorkshire plus Lowlanders being withdrawn.
You'd then have 7553-6 for the X20.
Out of 7511/2/4-7 and 7529-33 you'd probably see the latter 5 stay at Ashington as spares for the Morpeth routes and for the 35 alongside 1579/80. The other 6 could then move to Jesmond to displace their B7s.
Currently I don't imagine there's a lot of need to replace the Blyth deckers. They're on less demanding routes than the Ashington E400s, have all had recent refurbs and will likely be kept on for the next couple of years at least.
If we're honest the X15 should have had new vehicles about 5 years ago.
In response to your X21/22 point, I believe that the MMCs are already surpassing 200k miles at 2.5 years old. Not huge milage but the buses they replaced were already dying, I'd imagine that's why we saw quick succession of investment last time around.
(07 Mar 2020, 10:04 pm)Ds1197 One my last trip to Darlington they routes really need an upgrade since I think some of Darlingtons omnicities are still only euro 3 and that's meant to be the express routes that most of the time get even older busesDarlington's fleet is actually fine for the most part apart from a few specific Omni's which are town only due to issues making them not ideal for out of town work and some of the Lites being totally useless. Thing I want to see is the Solos being given a slight bit of TLC as seats are as flat as a pancake at the back on most of them and some buses are crying out for a repaint.
(07 Mar 2020, 9:58 pm)mb134 I think if we see investment for the X15/8 then it'd make sense to do the X14 as well - the Scanias are due for replacement soon anyway so it'd make sense to a degree. Would require 12 vehicles, 13 if there's a dedicated spare.Think the plan was for Yorkshire E400s to replace the B7TL Gemini's on the 306 but that hasn't quite worked out due to the delay in delivery of StreetDecks to Yorkshire plus Lowlanders being withdrawn.
You'd then have 7553-6 for the X20.
Out of 7511/2/4-7 and 7529-33 you'd probably see the latter 5 stay at Ashington as spares for the Morpeth routes and for the 35 alongside 1579/80. The other 6 could then move to Jesmond to displace their B7s.
Currently I don't imagine there's a lot of need to replace the Blyth deckers. They're on less demanding routes than the Ashington E400s, have all had recent refurbs and will likely be kept on for the next couple of years at least.
If we're honest the X15 should have had new vehicles about 5 years ago.
In response to your X21/22 point, I believe that the MMCs are already surpassing 200k miles at 2.5 years old. Not huge milage but the buses they replaced were already dying, I'd imagine that's why we saw quick succession of investment last time around.
(07 Mar 2020, 10:04 pm)Ds1197 One my last trip to Darlington they routes really need an upgrade since I think some of Darlingtons omnicities are still only euro 3 and that's meant to be the express routes that most of the time get even older busesDarlington's fleet is actually fine for the most part apart from a few specific Omni's which are town only due to issues making them not ideal for out of town work and some of the Lites being totally useless. Thing I want to see is the Solos being given a slight bit of TLC as seats are as flat as a pancake at the back on most of them and some buses are crying out for a repaint.
(07 Mar 2020, 9:58 pm)mb134 I think if we see investment for the X15/8 then it'd make sense to do the X14 as well - the Scanias are due for replacement soon anyway so it'd make sense to a degree. Would require 12 vehicles, 13 if there's a dedicated spare.There's nothing wrong with the E400MMCs on the X21 / X22. But if Arriva were to go with presumably E400MMCs, would it not make sense to put them on a route that would suit ZF gearboxes better with the current Voith examples being used on a more 'stop-start' type of route?
You'd then have 7553-6 for the X20.
Out of 7511/2/4-7 and 7529-33 you'd probably see the latter 5 stay at Ashington as spares for the Morpeth routes and for the 35 alongside 1579/80. The other 6 could then move to Jesmond to displace their B7s.
Currently I don't imagine there's a lot of need to replace the Blyth deckers. They're on less demanding routes than the Ashington E400s, have all had recent refurbs and will likely be kept on for the next couple of years at least.
If we're honest the X15 should have had new vehicles about 5 years ago.
In response to your X21/22 point, I believe that the MMCs are already surpassing 200k miles at 2.5 years old. Not huge milage but the buses they replaced were already dying, I'd imagine that's why we saw quick succession of investment last time around.
(07 Mar 2020, 9:58 pm)mb134 I think if we see investment for the X15/8 then it'd make sense to do the X14 as well - the Scanias are due for replacement soon anyway so it'd make sense to a degree. Would require 12 vehicles, 13 if there's a dedicated spare.There's nothing wrong with the E400MMCs on the X21 / X22. But if Arriva were to go with presumably E400MMCs, would it not make sense to put them on a route that would suit ZF gearboxes better with the current Voith examples being used on a more 'stop-start' type of route?
You'd then have 7553-6 for the X20.
Out of 7511/2/4-7 and 7529-33 you'd probably see the latter 5 stay at Ashington as spares for the Morpeth routes and for the 35 alongside 1579/80. The other 6 could then move to Jesmond to displace their B7s.
Currently I don't imagine there's a lot of need to replace the Blyth deckers. They're on less demanding routes than the Ashington E400s, have all had recent refurbs and will likely be kept on for the next couple of years at least.
If we're honest the X15 should have had new vehicles about 5 years ago.
In response to your X21/22 point, I believe that the MMCs are already surpassing 200k miles at 2.5 years old. Not huge milage but the buses they replaced were already dying, I'd imagine that's why we saw quick succession of investment last time around.
(07 Mar 2020, 9:40 pm)scanialover Started a bit of a conversation here? Shame that no-one from down here on Teesside has interjected with what they'd like to see happen.
(07 Mar 2020, 9:40 pm)scanialover Started a bit of a conversation here? Shame that no-one from down here on Teesside has interjected with what they'd like to see happen.
(07 Mar 2020, 10:39 pm)L469 YVK There's nothing wrong with the E400MMCs on the X21 / X22. But if Arriva were to go with presumably E400MMCs, would it not make sense to put them on a route that would suit ZF gearboxes better with the current Voith examples being used on a more 'stop-start' type of route?
Unlike Stagecoach, Arriva spec'd their classic E400s with ZF gearboxes but changed to Voith with the MMCs as stop-start was only available with Voith until recently.
(07 Mar 2020, 10:39 pm)L469 YVK There's nothing wrong with the E400MMCs on the X21 / X22. But if Arriva were to go with presumably E400MMCs, would it not make sense to put them on a route that would suit ZF gearboxes better with the current Voith examples being used on a more 'stop-start' type of route?
Unlike Stagecoach, Arriva spec'd their classic E400s with ZF gearboxes but changed to Voith with the MMCs as stop-start was only available with Voith until recently.
(08 Mar 2020, 12:32 am)mb134 Indeed, nothing wrong with the MMCs at all for the X21/22. The 14 plates seem to be set up better for higher speeds though, had one of them the other week on the X14 out of Newcastle and it was effortless getting to 62mph on the A1 - I'd like to see any new vehicles for the Morpeth express routes given the ZF box.Would the B9TLs from the X93 not have any life left in them to do the X20 if the X93 was upgraded?
The X21/22 is quite stop-start, for nearly half the route all it does is stop and start! The MMCs deal well with the higher speed sections of it too, least I've never seen them struggle.
I'd like to see the X93 get new vehicles over the next couple of years, though then you've got the issue of trying to find a home for 6 non-standard B9TLs that have been hammered on the X93 for the best part of 6 years.
Honestly a route that could probably do with new vehicles, it'd only need E200MMCs, would be the X12. They need to do a better job of marketing the only route that connects their Northumbria and Durham County operations - it has so much potential but is horrifically executed.
(08 Mar 2020, 12:32 am)mb134 Indeed, nothing wrong with the MMCs at all for the X21/22. The 14 plates seem to be set up better for higher speeds though, had one of them the other week on the X14 out of Newcastle and it was effortless getting to 62mph on the A1 - I'd like to see any new vehicles for the Morpeth express routes given the ZF box.Would the B9TLs from the X93 not have any life left in them to do the X20 if the X93 was upgraded?
The X21/22 is quite stop-start, for nearly half the route all it does is stop and start! The MMCs deal well with the higher speed sections of it too, least I've never seen them struggle.
I'd like to see the X93 get new vehicles over the next couple of years, though then you've got the issue of trying to find a home for 6 non-standard B9TLs that have been hammered on the X93 for the best part of 6 years.
Honestly a route that could probably do with new vehicles, it'd only need E200MMCs, would be the X12. They need to do a better job of marketing the only route that connects their Northumbria and Durham County operations - it has so much potential but is horrifically executed.
Can go with the idea of upgrading the X12. In fact the concept of again upgrading Arriva's "X" route should be seen as positive. 'Max' was a step in the right direction but was only cosmetic and is now past its best. 'Sapphire' came along with the Streetlites and again the idea was a good one; problems here is that they don't get carried through, the novelty wears of and we find vehicles on Max and Sapphire allocated all over the place. For sure it's a tricky one just like the branding of just about anything
I can’t see any new buses arriving for the Northeast area, the government should take control of there bus services and kick Arriva out, while DB keeps putting prices up and nothing being put back into the UK and only using handouts from the government to pay for Anything in the UK, while profits from bus/train fares in the UK etc... are being used to improve there own services in there own country
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Surely any investment will be focused on the LEZ therefore displacements or swaps to move on:
Streetlites on 35, 52 and 54 (supposedly can't be upgraded).
Scanias on 685 and Berwick Expresses
Volvo B7TL at Blyth, Jesmond and Ashington
Commanders at Blyth
Solos on 46, 51, 55
The 685 has been forgotton about for awhile especially now that Stagecoach runs new deckers on it, could be one for an upgrade. Be very surprised if they mod the Scanias.
(08 Mar 2020, 9:51 am)GNE6312 Are there any Streetlite allocated boards on the 7 on a Monday-saturday
(08 Mar 2020, 9:51 am)GNE6312 Are there any Streetlite allocated boards on the 7 on a Monday-saturday
Why are Darlington having so many issues? Isn't that the role of management to sort things out
(08 Mar 2020, 8:46 am)cbma06 I can’t see any new buses arriving for the Northeast area, the government should take control of there bus services and kick Arriva out, while DB keeps putting prices up and nothing being put back into the UK and only using handouts from the government to pay for Anything in the UK, while profits from bus/train fares in the UK etc... are being used to improve there own services in there own countryThink that's a bit harsh. Although nationalising Arriva would be a bit extreme (unless for a good reason), they do however need to clean up their act.
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(08 Mar 2020, 8:46 am)cbma06 I can’t see any new buses arriving for the Northeast area, the government should take control of there bus services and kick Arriva out, while DB keeps putting prices up and nothing being put back into the UK and only using handouts from the government to pay for Anything in the UK, while profits from bus/train fares in the UK etc... are being used to improve there own services in there own countryThink that's a bit harsh. Although nationalising Arriva would be a bit extreme (unless for a good reason), they do however need to clean up their act.
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Why look at the competition element when clearly it's never going to happen, or work for that matter. Let's focus on making what we have starting with Arriva getting their act together. We might have a 6-8% VOR situation, which is acceptable/understandable but from what I read on here it's the day to day situation that seems to be a problem.
As I've said before, I don't have that much experience with Arriva as I lived deep in GNE territory for most of my life, it's only in the last 5 or so years that I've had to deal with them.
As much as I love complaining about them (I think we all do!), they don't do /that/ much bad, sure they have their bad points, but they also have some good ones as well!
Bare in mind that my experience is limited to services that operate around County Durham
Some of my complaints about Arriva:
I've yet to see an Arriva driver that looks like they're enjoying their job, they always look miserable!
Many times I've had drivers that barely speaks English or doesn't know places along the route (usually a mix of both)
MAX and Sapphire are nothing more than a name at this point. Sapphire was meant to be their 'premium' service but that didn't last.
They have have so many different standard liveries floating about you'd think they were different operators!
I have no issue with getting older vehicles from other divisions, but when you 'upgrade' a route with 11 year old buses, that's when I start having issues
Their vehicles are pretty much always dirty inside
They never seem to repair damage to seats. There are seats on fairly new buses that are all ripped, and if you're lucky they're even taped up!
I would bring up timekeeping, but I know that's not always down to them. Although if the timetables were planned properly they could take this into account, especially if they're a regular occurrence.
It's easy to be critical of Arriva (and I am), but to be fair to them they aren't as terrible as some people think.
But I agree with the previous poster, the different branding doesnt work very well, especially if they dont put their money where their mouth is.
There's no point in having a Sapphire 'premium' brand unless you're going to invest new, good quality buses at least every 4 or 5 years on those routes. If you're going to have years of buying little or no new buses, they will get left behind.
I'm not a fan of Streetlites anyway but at least when they were introduced on the 5's and X3/X4's they were new. Now, the branding is often missing or out of date, seats marked and worn, charging points old fashioned and mostly not working, next stop screens and audio often not working, and the buses themselves often replaced with a Temsa or pulsar.
Can agree, in part, with what is said about Arriva's drivers. There are a canny few diamonds out there who look the part and take pride in their job, but then there is a good percentage who undermine this with their attitude and lack of customer focus. OK it's not an easy position dealing with demanding timetables and often difficult passengers but that is the role in which they are trained. Add a point here, wasn't relevant until yesterday? Clipping the odd kerb is unavoidable but hitting just about every one, AKA my journey on the 1142 service 7 from Durham, was a bit much. Back to the driving school for him?
As for the fleet, what can one say? It's a mess! A complete mis-match of liveries and then styles within said liveries. What was the idea behind the latest standard livery which to bring the fleet into some sort of standardisation, cost a fortune
Then we have the issues raised against the Streetlites, MAX and Sapphire. All this came all singing and dancing but now look at it. Another mess, brand new vehicles which while not ideal should have been kept up to the spec and standard for which they were purchased .
And to finish. Just headed home on VDL Pulsar 1410 working a 29 trip out of Middlesbrough. I say this because here is a classic example of just where Arriva's fleet should be. Smart new livery externally, refurbished, or looked like it, internally and seemed to be mechanically sound. OK the NSA wasn't working but hey, do we need it?
(07 Mar 2020, 9:40 pm)scanialover Started a bit of a conversation here? Shame that no-one from down here on Teesside has interjected with what they'd like to see happen.
(07 Mar 2020, 9:40 pm)scanialover Started a bit of a conversation here? Shame that no-one from down here on Teesside has interjected with what they'd like to see happen.
