Go North East service levels during the Coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic
Go North East service levels during the Coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic
(08 May 2020, 2:19 pm)Dan With an expectant announcement from the Government this weekend that lockdown restrictions may be relaxed, there may be a small increase in demand for bus services. To allow for better social distancing where possible, the following services will be operated by larger vehicles as a result of this:
ConsettDeptford
- X30: Single-deck to double-deck
- X71: Single-deck to double-deck
Hexham
- 5: Minibus to single-deck
- 20: Single-deck to double-deck
- 33: Minibus to single-deck
- 38: Minibus to single-deck
- 50: Single-deck to double-deck
- 135/136: Minibus to single-deck
Riverside
- 185/681/X81: Merc Sprinter to minibus
- 74: Merc Sprinter to minibus
- X84/X85: Minibus to single-deck
- 33A: Minibus to midibus
- 53/54: Midibus to single-deck
- 57: Single-deck to double-deck
- Q3: Minibus to single-deck
- X10: Single-deck to double-deck
As such, some of the buses which are currently 'not in service' will return to service, and a small number of the buses which were delicensed have also been brought back into service.
There will also be a small number of transfers as a consequence:
- 5389 & 5390: Riverside to Hexham
- 6304, 6305, 6306, 6307: Riverside to Consett
- 5442, 5443, 5444, 5445: Consett to Riverside
- 6157: Consett to Deptford
(08 May 2020, 2:19 pm)Dan With an expectant announcement from the Government this weekend that lockdown restrictions may be relaxed, there may be a small increase in demand for bus services. To allow for better social distancing where possible, the following services will be operated by larger vehicles as a result of this:
ConsettDeptford
- X30: Single-deck to double-deck
- X71: Single-deck to double-deck
Hexham
- 5: Minibus to single-deck
- 20: Single-deck to double-deck
- 33: Minibus to single-deck
- 38: Minibus to single-deck
- 50: Single-deck to double-deck
- 135/136: Minibus to single-deck
Riverside
- 185/681/X81: Merc Sprinter to minibus
- 74: Merc Sprinter to minibus
- X84/X85: Minibus to single-deck
- 33A: Minibus to midibus
- 53/54: Midibus to single-deck
- 57: Single-deck to double-deck
- Q3: Minibus to single-deck
- X10: Single-deck to double-deck
As such, some of the buses which are currently 'not in service' will return to service, and a small number of the buses which were delicensed have also been brought back into service.
There will also be a small number of transfers as a consequence:
- 5389 & 5390: Riverside to Hexham
- 6304, 6305, 6306, 6307: Riverside to Consett
- 5442, 5443, 5444, 5445: Consett to Riverside
- 6157: Consett to Deptford
(09 May 2020, 6:34 am)Metroline1511 Go North East might be one of the most prolific operators in the country for operating smaller buses during the pandemic.
(09 May 2020, 6:34 am)Metroline1511 Go North East might be one of the most prolific operators in the country for operating smaller buses during the pandemic.
(09 May 2020, 7:45 am)Dan There seems to be no consistency, even locally, in what other operators are doing. I still think the mind boggles that Arriva North East haven't SORN'd any of their buses (but have taken them out of use!) At approx £40/month for tax, multiplied by 400 vehicles, Go North East have saved approximately £16,000 by SORN'ing the fleet.One thing I noticed with Arriva whilst I was temporarily on office based standby to assist with high demand before Easter (but now WFH) was that a lot of older double deck vehicles were on the road. Surely given the situation, Arriva should've just had the following out across the 3x Northumbria depots with vehicle movements between depots where required:
(09 May 2020, 7:45 am)Dan There seems to be no consistency, even locally, in what other operators are doing. I still think the mind boggles that Arriva North East haven't SORN'd any of their buses (but have taken them out of use!) At approx £40/month for tax, multiplied by 400 vehicles, Go North East have saved approximately £16,000 by SORN'ing the fleet.One thing I noticed with Arriva whilst I was temporarily on office based standby to assist with high demand before Easter (but now WFH) was that a lot of older double deck vehicles were on the road. Surely given the situation, Arriva should've just had the following out across the 3x Northumbria depots with vehicle movements between depots where required:
(09 May 2020, 7:45 am)Dan At the time the re-allocations were made, there was no Government support for bus operators. A huge plunge in passenger numbers and revenue (openly quoted as being a 90% loss) yet still burdening the full costs of many things to run a bus company, it was entirely sensible to allocate the most fuel-efficient, BSOG-earning buses, in the fleet.
The picture changed somewhat when the Government announced the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme (although there are still many staff behind the scenes that don't drive buses that cannot be furloughed), and it's less of an issue now that the Government has pledged to support bus operators to help 'bridge the gap' on running costs to help them breakeven, but this still doesn't cover every cost in its entirety so in reality it will still be a loss that is made. Bus operators are very much - using a turn of phrase which has often been mooted on this forum - taking the rough with the smooth at the moment, as they're providing a lifeline service to many key workers.
If social distancing is still maintained (to the best it can be on a bus (let's face it, it's more or less impossible to sit 2m apart when the largest double-decks are only 2.5m in width, which is why the DfT guidance is for buses to be no more than 50% full), then I don't see the issue in running smaller buses to help mitigate some of the losses of running these lifeline services.
There seems to be no consistency, even locally, in what other operators are doing. I still think the mind boggles that Arriva North East haven't SORN'd any of their buses (but have taken them out of use!) At approx £40/month for tax, multiplied by 400 vehicles, Go North East have saved approximately £16,000 by SORN'ing the fleet.
(09 May 2020, 7:45 am)Dan At the time the re-allocations were made, there was no Government support for bus operators. A huge plunge in passenger numbers and revenue (openly quoted as being a 90% loss) yet still burdening the full costs of many things to run a bus company, it was entirely sensible to allocate the most fuel-efficient, BSOG-earning buses, in the fleet.
The picture changed somewhat when the Government announced the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme (although there are still many staff behind the scenes that don't drive buses that cannot be furloughed), and it's less of an issue now that the Government has pledged to support bus operators to help 'bridge the gap' on running costs to help them breakeven, but this still doesn't cover every cost in its entirety so in reality it will still be a loss that is made. Bus operators are very much - using a turn of phrase which has often been mooted on this forum - taking the rough with the smooth at the moment, as they're providing a lifeline service to many key workers.
If social distancing is still maintained (to the best it can be on a bus (let's face it, it's more or less impossible to sit 2m apart when the largest double-decks are only 2.5m in width, which is why the DfT guidance is for buses to be no more than 50% full), then I don't see the issue in running smaller buses to help mitigate some of the losses of running these lifeline services.
There seems to be no consistency, even locally, in what other operators are doing. I still think the mind boggles that Arriva North East haven't SORN'd any of their buses (but have taken them out of use!) At approx £40/month for tax, multiplied by 400 vehicles, Go North East have saved approximately £16,000 by SORN'ing the fleet.
(09 May 2020, 7:45 am)Dan If social distancing is still maintained (to the best it can be on a bus (let's face it, it's more or less impossible to sit 2m apart when the largest double-decks are only 2.5m in width, which is why the DfT guidance is for buses to be no more than 50% full), then I don't see the issue in running smaller buses to help mitigate some of the losses of running these lifeline services.
(09 May 2020, 7:45 am)Dan If social distancing is still maintained (to the best it can be on a bus (let's face it, it's more or less impossible to sit 2m apart when the largest double-decks are only 2.5m in width, which is why the DfT guidance is for buses to be no more than 50% full), then I don't see the issue in running smaller buses to help mitigate some of the losses of running these lifeline services.
(09 May 2020, 10:19 am)Andreos1 Interesting comments. There's already been mention of the frequency on the Birtley Solos leading to potential crowding and I've seen it myself on the 4.
If smaller vehicles are going to be used on the 4, then I do think that the 20/25 mins layover they get behind Lidl needs to be used in a more efficient manner.
A short run (to Woodstone Village or Lambton turning circle and back) would not only ensure the allocated resources are being used, but it would also assist with passengers being clumped together when loadings were higher. At minimal cost.
That stretch has gone from 5x 4's and 2x 71's, to one bus an hour - with fewer seats.
(09 May 2020, 11:40 am)streetdeckfan Issue is people just aren't trying to follow social distancing, at least on the buses I've been on.
I've been on the 49 a couple times and once it gets to Teams, even with the back of the bus empty, everyone just huddles together on the first few rows, sitting next to each other so you can't even walk up the aisle without physically touching them. It's not like you can even say they're in the same household as they get on at different stops. The older people sit right behind each other then turn around to they can talk, completely defeating the point of sitting apart.
(09 May 2020, 10:19 am)Andreos1 Interesting comments. There's already been mention of the frequency on the Birtley Solos leading to potential crowding and I've seen it myself on the 4.
If smaller vehicles are going to be used on the 4, then I do think that the 20/25 mins layover they get behind Lidl needs to be used in a more efficient manner.
A short run (to Woodstone Village or Lambton turning circle and back) would not only ensure the allocated resources are being used, but it would also assist with passengers being clumped together when loadings were higher. At minimal cost.
That stretch has gone from 5x 4's and 2x 71's, to one bus an hour - with fewer seats.
(09 May 2020, 11:40 am)streetdeckfan Issue is people just aren't trying to follow social distancing, at least on the buses I've been on.
I've been on the 49 a couple times and once it gets to Teams, even with the back of the bus empty, everyone just huddles together on the first few rows, sitting next to each other so you can't even walk up the aisle without physically touching them. It's not like you can even say they're in the same household as they get on at different stops. The older people sit right behind each other then turn around to they can talk, completely defeating the point of sitting apart.
(09 May 2020, 7:45 am)Dan At the time the re-allocations were made, there was no Government support for bus operators. A huge plunge in passenger numbers and revenue (openly quoted as being a 90% loss) yet still burdening the full costs of many things to run a bus company, it was entirely sensible to allocate the most fuel-efficient, BSOG-earning buses, in the fleet.
The picture changed somewhat when the Government announced the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme (although there are still many staff behind the scenes that don't drive buses that cannot be furloughed), and it's less of an issue now that the Government has pledged to support bus operators to help 'bridge the gap' on running costs to help them breakeven, but this still doesn't cover every cost in its entirety so in reality it will still be a loss that is made. Bus operators are very much - using a turn of phrase which has often been mooted on this forum - taking the rough with the smooth at the moment, as they're providing a lifeline service to many key workers.
If social distancing is still maintained (to the best it can be on a bus (let's face it, it's more or less impossible to sit 2m apart when the largest double-decks are only 2.5m in width, which is why the DfT guidance is for buses to be no more than 50% full), then I don't see the issue in running smaller buses to help mitigate some of the losses of running these lifeline services.
There seems to be no consistency, even locally, in what other operators are doing. I still think the mind boggles that Arriva North East haven't SORN'd any of their buses (but have taken them out of use!) At approx £40/month for tax, multiplied by 400 vehicles, Go North East have saved approximately £16,000 by SORN'ing the fleet.
(09 May 2020, 7:45 am)Dan At the time the re-allocations were made, there was no Government support for bus operators. A huge plunge in passenger numbers and revenue (openly quoted as being a 90% loss) yet still burdening the full costs of many things to run a bus company, it was entirely sensible to allocate the most fuel-efficient, BSOG-earning buses, in the fleet.
The picture changed somewhat when the Government announced the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme (although there are still many staff behind the scenes that don't drive buses that cannot be furloughed), and it's less of an issue now that the Government has pledged to support bus operators to help 'bridge the gap' on running costs to help them breakeven, but this still doesn't cover every cost in its entirety so in reality it will still be a loss that is made. Bus operators are very much - using a turn of phrase which has often been mooted on this forum - taking the rough with the smooth at the moment, as they're providing a lifeline service to many key workers.
If social distancing is still maintained (to the best it can be on a bus (let's face it, it's more or less impossible to sit 2m apart when the largest double-decks are only 2.5m in width, which is why the DfT guidance is for buses to be no more than 50% full), then I don't see the issue in running smaller buses to help mitigate some of the losses of running these lifeline services.
There seems to be no consistency, even locally, in what other operators are doing. I still think the mind boggles that Arriva North East haven't SORN'd any of their buses (but have taken them out of use!) At approx £40/month for tax, multiplied by 400 vehicles, Go North East have saved approximately £16,000 by SORN'ing the fleet.
(09 May 2020, 6:40 pm)Dan Just picking up on this comment - the Streetlites actually have more seats than the Citaros. Aside from the fuel economy and low carbon certification, this was another reason for them being allocated.
I think the perception is often that they have fewer seats but they actually don't. The Citaros in particular have quite an unusual seating layout (especially the older ones that aren't used on the 4) which results in the number of seats being fewer.
Yes, I'd agree with this comment too. In the last fortnight or so I've taken up cycling in a bid to try and get a bit healthier and lose a bit of weight. In my experience of observing the buses I've seen whilst on my bike rides, I've often seen people sat together at the front of the bus leaving the back of the bus empty.
As far as I know there have been no reported 'overcrowding' issues on service 4 other than the one that Andreos1 reported. I do wonder whether it was a similar story where outside looking in, it appeared to be full, but when you actually see the bus stationary you can see that there are still plenty of seats closer to the back of the bus.
There are vinyls on the floors of the buses, there are posters around the cab area, in the poster holders, and the 'Next Stop' audio-visual TFT monitors (where buses are equipped with them) also show imagery around social distancing. You can lead a horse to water...
(09 May 2020, 6:40 pm)Dan Just picking up on this comment - the Streetlites actually have more seats than the Citaros. Aside from the fuel economy and low carbon certification, this was another reason for them being allocated.
I think the perception is often that they have fewer seats but they actually don't. The Citaros in particular have quite an unusual seating layout (especially the older ones that aren't used on the 4) which results in the number of seats being fewer.
Yes, I'd agree with this comment too. In the last fortnight or so I've taken up cycling in a bid to try and get a bit healthier and lose a bit of weight. In my experience of observing the buses I've seen whilst on my bike rides, I've often seen people sat together at the front of the bus leaving the back of the bus empty.
As far as I know there have been no reported 'overcrowding' issues on service 4 other than the one that Andreos1 reported. I do wonder whether it was a similar story where outside looking in, it appeared to be full, but when you actually see the bus stationary you can see that there are still plenty of seats closer to the back of the bus.
There are vinyls on the floors of the buses, there are posters around the cab area, in the poster holders, and the 'Next Stop' audio-visual TFT monitors (where buses are equipped with them) also show imagery around social distancing. You can lead a horse to water...
(09 May 2020, 6:59 pm)Metroline1511 Thank you for explaining why smaller vehicles have been used, especially initially. It will be a fascinating time for local enthusiasts where reasonable seeing many routes operated by different vehicles than usual.
(09 May 2020, 6:59 pm)Metroline1511 Thank you for explaining why smaller vehicles have been used, especially initially. It will be a fascinating time for local enthusiasts where reasonable seeing many routes operated by different vehicles than usual.
Thanks for the photos Dan.
I rode a Solo SR on route 74 in 2017, which IIRC was yellow. So the colour seemed unusual but not the vehicle.
(09 May 2020, 6:40 pm)Dan Just picking up on this comment - the Streetlites actually have more seats than the Citaros. Aside from the fuel economy and low carbon certification, this was another reason for them being allocated.
I think the perception is often that they have fewer seats but they actually don't. The Citaros in particular have quite an unusual seating layout (especially the older ones that aren't used on the 4) which results in the number of seats being fewer.
Yes, I'd agree with this comment too. In the last fortnight or so I've taken up cycling in a bid to try and get a bit healthier and lose a bit of weight. In my experience of observing the buses I've seen whilst on my bike rides, I've often seen people sat together at the front of the bus leaving the back of the bus empty.
As far as I know there have been no reported 'overcrowding' issues on service 4 other than the one that Andreos1 reported. I do wonder whether it was a similar story where outside looking in, it appeared to be full, but when you actually see the bus stationary you can see that there are still plenty of seats closer to the back of the bus.
There are vinyls on the floors of the buses, there are posters around the cab area, in the poster holders, and the 'Next Stop' audio-visual TFT monitors (where buses are equipped with them) also show imagery around social distancing. You can lead a horse to water...
(09 May 2020, 6:40 pm)Dan Just picking up on this comment - the Streetlites actually have more seats than the Citaros. Aside from the fuel economy and low carbon certification, this was another reason for them being allocated.
I think the perception is often that they have fewer seats but they actually don't. The Citaros in particular have quite an unusual seating layout (especially the older ones that aren't used on the 4) which results in the number of seats being fewer.
Yes, I'd agree with this comment too. In the last fortnight or so I've taken up cycling in a bid to try and get a bit healthier and lose a bit of weight. In my experience of observing the buses I've seen whilst on my bike rides, I've often seen people sat together at the front of the bus leaving the back of the bus empty.
As far as I know there have been no reported 'overcrowding' issues on service 4 other than the one that Andreos1 reported. I do wonder whether it was a similar story where outside looking in, it appeared to be full, but when you actually see the bus stationary you can see that there are still plenty of seats closer to the back of the bus.
There are vinyls on the floors of the buses, there are posters around the cab area, in the poster holders, and the 'Next Stop' audio-visual TFT monitors (where buses are equipped with them) also show imagery around social distancing. You can lead a horse to water...
(09 May 2020, 8:02 pm)Andreos1 Think you misunderstood. I was referring to the combined Merc and Omni capacity vs the Streetlite.
However, the point you make about the misconception between the capacities is interesting.
The streetlites may have a larger capacity, but they're also shorter and not as wide as the Mercs.
Social distancing on a Merc may be easier than on a Streetlite. Even with the fewer seats. Perhaps?
![[Image: 10382110175_6a8471da4a.jpg]](https://live.staticflickr.com/5535/10382110175_6a8471da4a.jpg)
Interior shot of Go North East's 5368, Mercedes Citaro 0530N/Mercedes Citaro by Daniel Graham, on Flickr(09 May 2020, 8:02 pm)Andreos1 Think you misunderstood. I was referring to the combined Merc and Omni capacity vs the Streetlite.
However, the point you make about the misconception between the capacities is interesting.
The streetlites may have a larger capacity, but they're also shorter and not as wide as the Mercs.
Social distancing on a Merc may be easier than on a Streetlite. Even with the fewer seats. Perhaps?
Interior shot of Go North East's 5368, Mercedes Citaro 0530N/Mercedes Citaro by Daniel Graham, on Flickr
(09 May 2020, 8:14 pm)Dan One bus would need to be some size to be the same capacity of seven single-decks... hence my assumption your point was about capacity differences between the vehicle types, not overall.
Clearly you think otherwise based on your observation, but recorded passenger loadings would suggest there is no demand at present for more than what is currently being provided. If there was, it'd be running (timetables are very slack at the moment due to the reduced traffic on the roads, and if there is a large amount of layover that could be put to greater use, it'd be used). This of course may change dependent on the content of the UK Government announcement tomorrow, but as Go North East are providing dedicated "hot spares" at key bus stations over the morning and evening peak from Monday, with buses reinstated specifically for this purpose, there's nothing to stop duplicates being operated using these buses (where required) off-peak too. There have been instances of this for other services in the Gateshead area, utilising scholars buses.
I'd disagree that on the point of social distancing being easier in a Citaro. Appreciate the point about width, but there is only 0.2m difference in length between the two vehicles, and the unusual seating layout on the Mercedes Citaros means that there's not much choice for seats! I'm sure you're well acquainted but for the benefit of others who might not be so familiar, see photo below:
The two 'quadrant' seats towards the back of the bus, which ordinarily provide eight seats, would reduce to just two under social distancing guidelines. Similarly the back row only has four seats on these Citaros, whereas most buses have five seats at the back (so you'd be more likely to get three people on the back row instead of just two).
The benefit of the Streetlites is that all of the seats are front-facing. In theory passengers are able to alternate between aisle-side and window-side on each row of seats to conform with the Department for Transport's guidance on social distancing on buses, so more passengers can travel. In reality, as streetdeckfan has already mentioned, most passengers aren't doing this (but bus operators can't be expected to police this).
(09 May 2020, 8:14 pm)Dan One bus would need to be some size to be the same capacity of seven single-decks... hence my assumption your point was about capacity differences between the vehicle types, not overall.
Clearly you think otherwise based on your observation, but recorded passenger loadings would suggest there is no demand at present for more than what is currently being provided. If there was, it'd be running (timetables are very slack at the moment due to the reduced traffic on the roads, and if there is a large amount of layover that could be put to greater use, it'd be used). This of course may change dependent on the content of the UK Government announcement tomorrow, but as Go North East are providing dedicated "hot spares" at key bus stations over the morning and evening peak from Monday, with buses reinstated specifically for this purpose, there's nothing to stop duplicates being operated using these buses (where required) off-peak too. There have been instances of this for other services in the Gateshead area, utilising scholars buses.
I'd disagree that on the point of social distancing being easier in a Citaro. Appreciate the point about width, but there is only 0.2m difference in length between the two vehicles, and the unusual seating layout on the Mercedes Citaros means that there's not much choice for seats! I'm sure you're well acquainted but for the benefit of others who might not be so familiar, see photo below:
The two 'quadrant' seats towards the back of the bus, which ordinarily provide eight seats, would reduce to just two under social distancing guidelines. Similarly the back row only has four seats on these Citaros, whereas most buses have five seats at the back (so you'd be more likely to get three people on the back row instead of just two).
The benefit of the Streetlites is that all of the seats are front-facing. In theory passengers are able to alternate between aisle-side and window-side on each row of seats to conform with the Department for Transport's guidance on social distancing on buses, so more passengers can travel. In reality, as streetdeckfan has already mentioned, most passengers aren't doing this (but bus operators can't be expected to police this).
With the announcement from Boris today, I'm going to take a guess and say operators are going to see a surge in passenger numbers on Wednesday, in particular on more rural services and city centres with passengers travelling out in to the countryside for 'exercise'. Then, I'd say by the end of the week it'll go back down to the current rates once people realise there's sod all to do
(10 May 2020, 8:43 pm)streetdeckfan With the announcement from Boris today, I'm going to take a guess and say operators are going to see a surge in passenger numbers on Wednesday, in particular on more rural services and city centres with passengers travelling out in to the countryside for 'exercise'. Then, I'd say by the end of the week it'll go back down to the current rates once people realise there's sod all to doI would hope not. We've been told to not even use public transport for work unless we have no other option.
(10 May 2020, 8:43 pm)streetdeckfan With the announcement from Boris today, I'm going to take a guess and say operators are going to see a surge in passenger numbers on Wednesday, in particular on more rural services and city centres with passengers travelling out in to the countryside for 'exercise'. Then, I'd say by the end of the week it'll go back down to the current rates once people realise there's sod all to doI would hope not. We've been told to not even use public transport for work unless we have no other option.
(12 May 2020, 2:54 pm)markydh Which a comparatively high number of people in the North East don’t. Tyne and Wear has the fourth highest number of bus journeys per head in England. Car ownership is lower here than in much of the rest of the country.Which is exactly why taking the bus to a new exercise spot is ill advised.
(12 May 2020, 2:54 pm)markydh Which a comparatively high number of people in the North East don’t. Tyne and Wear has the fourth highest number of bus journeys per head in England. Car ownership is lower here than in much of the rest of the country.Which is exactly why taking the bus to a new exercise spot is ill advised.
Little suggestion (any GNE workers on forum fancy relaying this back in?).
If such announcement hasn't been recorded or implemented, could something down the lines of the following not be added after the announcement of every stop or even every few stops (or on approach if long distance route such as X9/X10).
"When alighting, please stand behind the 2 metre floor tile marking until the bus stops and the driver opens the doors"
(12 May 2020, 10:28 pm)L469 YVK Little suggestion (any GNE workers on forum fancy relaying this back in?).Sure Dan will confirm this, but I recall this was discussed on multiple occasions and it was advised that this would be far too complex to implement as it would involve digging into all of the files and adding the announcement in at every stage required.
If such announcement hasn't been recorded or implemented, could something down the lines of the following not be added after the announcement of every stop or even every few stops (or on approach if long distance route such as X9/X10).
"When alighting, please stand behind the 2 metre floor tile marking until the bus stops and the driver opens the doors"
(12 May 2020, 10:28 pm)L469 YVK Little suggestion (any GNE workers on forum fancy relaying this back in?).Sure Dan will confirm this, but I recall this was discussed on multiple occasions and it was advised that this would be far too complex to implement as it would involve digging into all of the files and adding the announcement in at every stage required.
If such announcement hasn't been recorded or implemented, could something down the lines of the following not be added after the announcement of every stop or even every few stops (or on approach if long distance route such as X9/X10).
"When alighting, please stand behind the 2 metre floor tile marking until the bus stops and the driver opens the doors"
