Tees Flex
Tees Flex
(24 Aug 2020, 8:09 pm)Economic505 The Flex is a good DRT service but the Mayor’s party wrecked bus services with the 1985 Transport Act . Bus competition fizzled out by the early 1990s.Well there was no competition before the Transport Act.
(24 Aug 2020, 8:09 pm)Economic505 The Flex is a good DRT service but the Mayor’s party wrecked bus services with the 1985 Transport Act . Bus competition fizzled out by the early 1990s.Well there was no competition before the Transport Act.
Yes Robin, but the Transport Act of 1985 was supposed to create competition - where is that competition now. ? If I don’t rate Asda , I can go to Morrisons or Tesco or Sainsbury or Co-Op etc. If you live in Dene Estate , only the 23, for example.
All the Act did , was break a very integrated transport system. I m sadly old enough to remember pre 1986, but what I do remember, (and I have seen pre 1986 timetables), is that there was a regular service across day, night and Sunday. I know that factors like car ownership etc are important , but I still believe pre 1986 was better.
The early years of competition was exciting eg TWOC , but as I said earlier, competition fizzled out. I remember when TWOC did an 18/19 service copy, but terminating at Tunstall Rd. For me, that took me bk to the PTE 121/122 route which was a child hood favourite. Sorry , I m rambling now, but I do miss the old integrated routes, Transfares, 5 Rider Carnets, going to the PTE travel shop at the Central Bus Station etc .,
(27 Aug 2020, 10:27 am)Andreos1 Used this for the first time recently.
Ordered it from Saltburn Station to Guisborough.
It was chucking down, so rushed to the canopy outside the station and saw a bus parked at the main bus stops.
Rushed over, approached bus and found out that it wasn't ours. Driver was freindly enough, pointed out he only had one booking and that was to go to Skelton.
Reminded us of the reg details appearing on the app and waited for his passenger. Seconds later, our vehicle appeared (it was one of the new 69 plates) and we boarded. As MrsC had already paid by PayPal, there wasn't much else for us to do. The driver confirmed we paid and we made our way to our seats.
Got to Guisborough just a few minutes later and off we went.
There was already one vehicle in Guisborough dropping someone off and another pulled in, dropping someone else off.
Didn't use the USB ports and thought the seats were reasonably comfortable (not luxurious at all) for the trip.
The trip cost £4.50 - which is cheaper than a taxi.
I can't help feeling that even in these times of social distancing, that the service could be used in a more cost effective manner.
Sticking us on the bus which went to Skelton and having it continue down the road would have added 5mins to the journey.
The buses arriving either side of us in to Guisborough, can't have come that far bearing in mind the size of the zone. Could loads have been consolidated from these 4 vehicles on to fewer?
(27 Aug 2020, 10:27 am)Andreos1 Used this for the first time recently.
Ordered it from Saltburn Station to Guisborough.
It was chucking down, so rushed to the canopy outside the station and saw a bus parked at the main bus stops.
Rushed over, approached bus and found out that it wasn't ours. Driver was freindly enough, pointed out he only had one booking and that was to go to Skelton.
Reminded us of the reg details appearing on the app and waited for his passenger. Seconds later, our vehicle appeared (it was one of the new 69 plates) and we boarded. As MrsC had already paid by PayPal, there wasn't much else for us to do. The driver confirmed we paid and we made our way to our seats.
Got to Guisborough just a few minutes later and off we went.
There was already one vehicle in Guisborough dropping someone off and another pulled in, dropping someone else off.
Didn't use the USB ports and thought the seats were reasonably comfortable (not luxurious at all) for the trip.
The trip cost £4.50 - which is cheaper than a taxi.
I can't help feeling that even in these times of social distancing, that the service could be used in a more cost effective manner.
Sticking us on the bus which went to Skelton and having it continue down the road would have added 5mins to the journey.
The buses arriving either side of us in to Guisborough, can't have come that far bearing in mind the size of the zone. Could loads have been consolidated from these 4 vehicles on to fewer?
(28 Aug 2020, 6:47 pm)Adrian Strange one that. You'd think their system would have combined those two journeys into one, as you suggest.It seems to be either 7 or 8 operational in one go, but it still works out to about 2 pax per hour, per bus which isn’t a huge amount but not bad by DRT standards.
I actually wonder how profitable the service is, if they're looking to expand it further. I noticed that Houchen was quoted in the press stating an average of around 1,070 a week, but that doesn't sound very healthy in the grand scheme of things. I was trying to work out some numbers on it.
I've no idea how many of the 11 vehicles are on the road at once, but assuming:
- an estimated 9 vehicles on the road at one time
- an estimated average of £12 an hour to run
- an estimated average that each vehicle is out for 10 hours a day
...would cost £1,080 a day or £6,480 a week to run.
If your average fare of those 1,070 passengers a week was £3, you'd still only gross £3,210 a week. In reality its going to be a lot less than that, depending on what rebate they receive for concessions. I'd suggest its nowhere near £3 though.
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(28 Aug 2020, 6:47 pm)Adrian Strange one that. You'd think their system would have combined those two journeys into one, as you suggest.It seems to be either 7 or 8 operational in one go, but it still works out to about 2 pax per hour, per bus which isn’t a huge amount but not bad by DRT standards.
I actually wonder how profitable the service is, if they're looking to expand it further. I noticed that Houchen was quoted in the press stating an average of around 1,070 a week, but that doesn't sound very healthy in the grand scheme of things. I was trying to work out some numbers on it.
I've no idea how many of the 11 vehicles are on the road at once, but assuming:
- an estimated 9 vehicles on the road at one time
- an estimated average of £12 an hour to run
- an estimated average that each vehicle is out for 10 hours a day
...would cost £1,080 a day or £6,480 a week to run.
If your average fare of those 1,070 passengers a week was £3, you'd still only gross £3,210 a week. In reality its going to be a lot less than that, depending on what rebate they receive for concessions. I'd suggest its nowhere near £3 though.
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Service Manager, Coatham Connect
(28 Aug 2020, 6:47 pm)Adrian Strange one that. You'd think their system would have combined those two journeys into one, as you suggest.
I actually wonder how profitable the service is, if they're looking to expand it further. I noticed that Houchen was quoted in the press stating an average of around 1,070 a week, but that doesn't sound very healthy in the grand scheme of things. I was trying to work out some numbers on it.
I've no idea how many of the 11 vehicles are on the road at once, but assuming:
- an estimated 9 vehicles on the road at one time
- an estimated average of £12 an hour to run
- an estimated average that each vehicle is out for 10 hours a day
...would cost £1,080 a day or £6,480 a week to run.
If your average fare of those 1,070 passengers a week was £3, you'd still only gross £3,210 a week. In reality its going to be a lot less than that, depending on what rebate they receive for concessions. I'd suggest its nowhere near £3 though.
(28 Aug 2020, 6:47 pm)Adrian Strange one that. You'd think their system would have combined those two journeys into one, as you suggest.
I actually wonder how profitable the service is, if they're looking to expand it further. I noticed that Houchen was quoted in the press stating an average of around 1,070 a week, but that doesn't sound very healthy in the grand scheme of things. I was trying to work out some numbers on it.
I've no idea how many of the 11 vehicles are on the road at once, but assuming:
- an estimated 9 vehicles on the road at one time
- an estimated average of £12 an hour to run
- an estimated average that each vehicle is out for 10 hours a day
...would cost £1,080 a day or £6,480 a week to run.
If your average fare of those 1,070 passengers a week was £3, you'd still only gross £3,210 a week. In reality its going to be a lot less than that, depending on what rebate they receive for concessions. I'd suggest its nowhere near £3 though.
(29 Aug 2020, 7:23 am)James101 Is it’s purpose ever to become profitable? Tees Flex is an effective replacement for most of the Boroughbus network. Is Flex instead of having a supported network of scheduled services, which the Tees Valley has none (bar the handful of journeys about to come in from Arriva)?
Personally, I’d measure its success by comparing passenger engagement on Tees Flex versus the same amount on money spent on supporting scheduled buses.
(29 Aug 2020, 7:23 am)James101 Is it’s purpose ever to become profitable? Tees Flex is an effective replacement for most of the Boroughbus network. Is Flex instead of having a supported network of scheduled services, which the Tees Valley has none (bar the handful of journeys about to come in from Arriva)?
Personally, I’d measure its success by comparing passenger engagement on Tees Flex versus the same amount on money spent on supporting scheduled buses.
(29 Aug 2020, 7:23 am)James101 Is it’s purpose ever to become profitable? Tees Flex is an effective replacement for most of the Boroughbus network. Is Flex instead of having a supported network of scheduled services, which the Tees Valley has none (bar the handful of journeys about to come in from Arriva)?
Personally, I’d measure its success by comparing passenger engagement on Tees Flex versus the same amount on money spent on supporting scheduled buses.
(29 Aug 2020, 7:23 am)James101 Is it’s purpose ever to become profitable? Tees Flex is an effective replacement for most of the Boroughbus network. Is Flex instead of having a supported network of scheduled services, which the Tees Valley has none (bar the handful of journeys about to come in from Arriva)?
Personally, I’d measure its success by comparing passenger engagement on Tees Flex versus the same amount on money spent on supporting scheduled buses.
(29 Aug 2020, 7:23 am)James101 Is it’s purpose ever to become profitable? Tees Flex is an effective replacement for most of the Boroughbus network. Is Flex instead of having a supported network of scheduled services, which the Tees Valley has none (bar the handful of journeys about to come in from Arriva)?Yes its supposed to make a profit as the combined authority are only supporting it for 3 years. The idea then is for stagecoach or whoever to take it on commercially. I had several arguments on a local politics group with the Hartlepool Council leader last year pointing out that it wont work and so far that seems to be the case.
Personally, I’d measure its success by comparing passenger engagement on Tees Flex versus the same amount on money spent on supporting scheduled buses.
(29 Aug 2020, 7:23 am)James101 Is it’s purpose ever to become profitable? Tees Flex is an effective replacement for most of the Boroughbus network. Is Flex instead of having a supported network of scheduled services, which the Tees Valley has none (bar the handful of journeys about to come in from Arriva)?Yes its supposed to make a profit as the combined authority are only supporting it for 3 years. The idea then is for stagecoach or whoever to take it on commercially. I had several arguments on a local politics group with the Hartlepool Council leader last year pointing out that it wont work and so far that seems to be the case.
Personally, I’d measure its success by comparing passenger engagement on Tees Flex versus the same amount on money spent on supporting scheduled buses.
(29 Aug 2020, 10:20 am)Andreos1 Whilst I agree that the system is very unlikely to turn a profit, there are still ways it can be managed and operated in a more efficient manner.
The examples I referred to, can't be the only times something similar has happened.
What might be a weakness in the booking system, has the potential to make any loss even greater.
The service has stepped in to fill the gaps left over after commercial operators decided there wasn't enough brass.
I applaud the idea of the network - but I'm not sure it should exist in the first place.
(29 Aug 2020, 11:16 am)Adrian Is it an effective replacement though? The Mayor's own numbers would suggest that less than 100 people a day are using it, if you assume that the majority are making a return trip - less than 0.02% of the population of the Tees Valley.
If its not intended to be profitable, then in my opinion that has to be countered by showing there's a clear benefit of providing the service. I really hope that this becomes really popular and well used, but based on those numbers so far, I'm yet to be convinced whether it'll last beyond the initial 3 year contract.
(30 Aug 2020, 5:39 pm)col87 Yes its supposed to make a profit as the combined authority are only supporting it for 3 years. The idea then is for stagecoach or whoever to take it on commercially. I had several arguments on a local politics group with the Hartlepool Council leader last year pointing out that it wont work and so far that seems to be the case.
(29 Aug 2020, 10:20 am)Andreos1 Whilst I agree that the system is very unlikely to turn a profit, there are still ways it can be managed and operated in a more efficient manner.
The examples I referred to, can't be the only times something similar has happened.
What might be a weakness in the booking system, has the potential to make any loss even greater.
The service has stepped in to fill the gaps left over after commercial operators decided there wasn't enough brass.
I applaud the idea of the network - but I'm not sure it should exist in the first place.
(29 Aug 2020, 11:16 am)Adrian Is it an effective replacement though? The Mayor's own numbers would suggest that less than 100 people a day are using it, if you assume that the majority are making a return trip - less than 0.02% of the population of the Tees Valley.
If its not intended to be profitable, then in my opinion that has to be countered by showing there's a clear benefit of providing the service. I really hope that this becomes really popular and well used, but based on those numbers so far, I'm yet to be convinced whether it'll last beyond the initial 3 year contract.
(30 Aug 2020, 5:39 pm)col87 Yes its supposed to make a profit as the combined authority are only supporting it for 3 years. The idea then is for stagecoach or whoever to take it on commercially. I had several arguments on a local politics group with the Hartlepool Council leader last year pointing out that it wont work and so far that seems to be the case.
App has been updated for the extended network on Tuesday. Just for fun(?!) I've roughly copied scheduled bus services over the map in red and marked out in black areas which are more than 400m from both a scheduled buses and Tees Flex zone. Seeing how much of the town now has access to public transport I'm very cautiously optimistic for Hartlepool. What would be great is a promotional campaign that presents Stagecoach buses and Flex as an integrated service - live along a bus line, flat fare £1.80, pay the driver. Live in a Flex zone, get on the app, pay however is easier for you. You could even request a flex to take you to an interchange zone like Tees Bay or Queens Meadowfor longer journeys onto the 1, 36 or Arriva services northbound.
Not sure if this is possible as public-private partnership set-up but it would be better for everyone.
(30 Aug 2020, 9:24 pm)James101 App has been updated for the extended network on Tuesday. Just for fun(?!) I've roughly copied scheduled bus services over the map in red and marked out in black areas which are more than 400m from both a scheduled buses and Tees Flex zone. Seeing how much of the town now has access to public transport I'm very cautiously optimistic for Hartlepool. What would be great is a promotional campaign that presents Stagecoach buses and Flex as an integrated service - live along a bus line, flat fare £1.80, pay the driver. Live in a Flex zone, get on the app, pay however is easier for you. You could even request a flex to take you to an interchange zone like Tees Bay or Queens Meadowfor longer journeys onto the 1, 36 or Arriva services northbound.I see you haven't accounted for Paul's Travel 65 service.
Not sure if this is possible as public-private partnership set-up but it would be better for everyone.
(30 Aug 2020, 9:24 pm)James101 App has been updated for the extended network on Tuesday. Just for fun(?!) I've roughly copied scheduled bus services over the map in red and marked out in black areas which are more than 400m from both a scheduled buses and Tees Flex zone. Seeing how much of the town now has access to public transport I'm very cautiously optimistic for Hartlepool. What would be great is a promotional campaign that presents Stagecoach buses and Flex as an integrated service - live along a bus line, flat fare £1.80, pay the driver. Live in a Flex zone, get on the app, pay however is easier for you. You could even request a flex to take you to an interchange zone like Tees Bay or Queens Meadowfor longer journeys onto the 1, 36 or Arriva services northbound.I see you haven't accounted for Paul's Travel 65 service.
Not sure if this is possible as public-private partnership set-up but it would be better for everyone.
(31 Aug 2020, 10:50 am)tcts24 I see you haven't accounted for Paul's Travel 65 service.
(31 Aug 2020, 10:50 am)tcts24 I see you haven't accounted for Paul's Travel 65 service.
Anyone know if the places listed at the beginning of this thread are still likely spots to find the TeesFlex fleet during the day? Any others?
(14 Aug 2022, 10:53 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Anyone know if the places listed at the beginning of this thread are still likely spots to find the TeesFlex fleet during the day? Any others?I have seen it at the American Diner; Parked up at the BP garage At Wolviston ; Wynyard Village (hard to get to without a car or Tees Flex), Elwick Village, sometimes Victoria Road in Hartlepool .
(14 Aug 2022, 10:53 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Anyone know if the places listed at the beginning of this thread are still likely spots to find the TeesFlex fleet during the day? Any others?I have seen it at the American Diner; Parked up at the BP garage At Wolviston ; Wynyard Village (hard to get to without a car or Tees Flex), Elwick Village, sometimes Victoria Road in Hartlepool .
(14 Aug 2022, 10:53 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Anyone know if the places listed at the beginning of this thread are still likely spots to find the TeesFlex fleet during the day? Any others?
(14 Aug 2022, 10:53 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Anyone know if the places listed at the beginning of this thread are still likely spots to find the TeesFlex fleet during the day? Any others?
(15 Aug 2022, 7:21 am)Kuyoyo Not as much these days - rare to find them parked up other than during the driver’s break now compared to at the beginning.While running this lunchtime, 2 Tees Flex vehicles were parked near LillyAnne’s Coffee bar , on Victoria Road. This was approx 1215pm. They seem to rest up there quite frequently.
(15 Aug 2022, 7:21 am)Kuyoyo Not as much these days - rare to find them parked up other than during the driver’s break now compared to at the beginning.While running this lunchtime, 2 Tees Flex vehicles were parked near LillyAnne’s Coffee bar , on Victoria Road. This was approx 1215pm. They seem to rest up there quite frequently.
(15 Aug 2022, 11:55 am)Economic505 While running this lunchtime, 2 Tees Flex vehicles were parked near LillyAnne’s Coffee bar , on Victoria Road. This was approx 1215pm. They seem to rest up there quite frequently.They are there quite a lot so can only assume the drivers must be in the Stagecoach office if not there then one is often in the depot. I have actually only seen them been used a handful of times and quite a lot of people still don’t seem to know what they actually are so they have failed on the marketing side of it.
(15 Aug 2022, 11:55 am)Economic505 While running this lunchtime, 2 Tees Flex vehicles were parked near LillyAnne’s Coffee bar , on Victoria Road. This was approx 1215pm. They seem to rest up there quite frequently.They are there quite a lot so can only assume the drivers must be in the Stagecoach office if not there then one is often in the depot. I have actually only seen them been used a handful of times and quite a lot of people still don’t seem to know what they actually are so they have failed on the marketing side of it.
Although not parked up, certain locations you probably don't have to wait long for one to appear.
Hartlepool Town Centre
Stockton Town Centre
Skelton ASDA
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They’re in Guisborough and Saltburn pretty often too. Both of those serve as break locations too along with Skelton Asda and Redcar Clock.
If you want photos of them then get them soon…!
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