Branding
Branding
Or the Saltwell Park nor the 20, 56 or 58...
Just because money is being spent, it doesn't make it the flagship route though does it?
Kelloggs spend a fortune on launching a new version of Special K with berries and added vitamins - it certainly isn't their flagship brand or product.
I think it's hard to tell what's flagship and what isn't until we know how much each service makes in terms of numbers and profits.
For example, the X66 is probably one of GNE's busiest services and also one of the most frequent - but in terms of profits - I doubt they're high due to the number of passes shown when boarding, rather than fare-paying passengers. I think that's also why the X66 is so expensive - isn't it like £3 for a single?
That's a good point. The X66 is unique link, has been branded since the 1980s and generally has money invested on it - however, won't take much money from passengers.
Getting away from the flagship topic slightly, I have been working in Bishop Auckland today - the Arriva X1 was running just in front of the OK1 about 30mins ago.
Standing room only on the Arriva - quite a few seats on the GNE service, despite both buses being similar types.
Arriva has a massive presence in the town, but is a relatively new 'name'. It hasnt spent a fortune on funky names or colours either.
GNE went back into the town after having a sole 21 (and more recently the Pronto) representing the company and in turn, have half heartedly created a couple of new routes, relying on a historic name to attract passengers.
GNE actively promote the buzzfare saying that it can save money. For a fairly isolated community, with not many GNE connections (but plenty of ANE connections) - what are the chances passengers of getting the OK1 and buying a buzzfare ticket?
Has the OK1 been cancelled because of poor planning, poor connections or because they relied too much on the historic branding to generate custom?
If more time had been spent on improving connections at various points of the route, so that the buzzfare was an attractive ticketing option over the Arriva tickets, rather than re-introduce OK (as nostalgic as it was), a betting man would have staked money on it being a tad more successful.
The Arriva X1 has taken off far better than anyone expected, and in this case, beating the comparative GNE service by a long way in terms of loadings and revenue. The fact that GNE are now withdrawing from the area is a victory for Arriva (rare given the amount of victories for GNE in the recent past...) and the X1 has grown into a fully viable commercial service, now expanded to serve Tow Law every hour in place of the 1B. Watch out for more brandings coming from Arriva in the next year or so too.
(01 Oct 2013, 6:49 am)Daniel Without getting too off-topic (we have a thread for discussing and debating effectiveness of branding), it must first be noted that the ex-"Blaydon Racers" Renowns did not receive a repaint - just received vinyls on top of its already yellow base livery. This in itself has increased the cost-effectiveness of the the "Centurion" brand. Of course 5164-66 all received repaints, with 5164 and 5166 going yellow, and 5165 going red. If all of these Renowns were to have received a repaint, whichever service they could have gone to would have had to generate enough revenue to pay for these repaints before anything else - a significantly higher cost than what it was to simply brand them as "Centurion".
Customers know that, if a service is not branded, they should expect a "Northern" branded vehicle. Many customers also know that if vehicles are VOR (which they often are), they should exclude a "Northern" branded vehicle from appearing on their service. It is when a branded vehicle appears off-route where there is a problem, but of course Go North East have to reduce running costs on Sundays as much as possible to make services commercially viable. All operators do this (it's the reason why you won't see many Stagecoach ALX300s out in Sunderland on Sundays for example), it is just more noticeable when Go North East do it as they're essentially appearing off-route. The former is being worked on at present and hopefully in a few months time, "odd workings" should be far less frequent, and if a breakdown occurs, whatever vehicle is closest can attend for one run before a proper replacement can be organised (a "Northern" branded vehicle). The latter probably isn't being worked on, despite it irritating many of us (myself included) so much.
If Go North East were to have repainted and branded the two deckers that have recently transferred to Percy Main as per scholar requirements on services 17/307, just after applying special M-Ticket vinyls to 3803 back in April of this year, wouldn't they just be adding to the cost of the "Centurion" 17 service? More revenue to get back, and another 'pointless repaint' as you mentioned a few weeks ago..?
Out of all of this, the 17 has gained an additional spare vehicle (5166). 5164 has been transferred to Saltmeadows to act as a spare for "Pulse" services 67/69 (which will hopefully improve the reliability of these services), but 5166 - so far - has remained at Percy Main.
Do note that Go North East are now also generating revenue by the use of advertisements on these vehicles - as of August this year (see photo here). This again will help with how cost-effective the branding on this service is as it will again be generating revenue easily.
Go North East are happy because they're making a profit, customers are happy because they have a service which has a brand identity.
(01 Oct 2013, 6:49 am)Daniel Without getting too off-topic (we have a thread for discussing and debating effectiveness of branding), it must first be noted that the ex-"Blaydon Racers" Renowns did not receive a repaint - just received vinyls on top of its already yellow base livery. This in itself has increased the cost-effectiveness of the the "Centurion" brand. Of course 5164-66 all received repaints, with 5164 and 5166 going yellow, and 5165 going red. If all of these Renowns were to have received a repaint, whichever service they could have gone to would have had to generate enough revenue to pay for these repaints before anything else - a significantly higher cost than what it was to simply brand them as "Centurion".
Customers know that, if a service is not branded, they should expect a "Northern" branded vehicle. Many customers also know that if vehicles are VOR (which they often are), they should exclude a "Northern" branded vehicle from appearing on their service. It is when a branded vehicle appears off-route where there is a problem, but of course Go North East have to reduce running costs on Sundays as much as possible to make services commercially viable. All operators do this (it's the reason why you won't see many Stagecoach ALX300s out in Sunderland on Sundays for example), it is just more noticeable when Go North East do it as they're essentially appearing off-route. The former is being worked on at present and hopefully in a few months time, "odd workings" should be far less frequent, and if a breakdown occurs, whatever vehicle is closest can attend for one run before a proper replacement can be organised (a "Northern" branded vehicle). The latter probably isn't being worked on, despite it irritating many of us (myself included) so much.
If Go North East were to have repainted and branded the two deckers that have recently transferred to Percy Main as per scholar requirements on services 17/307, just after applying special M-Ticket vinyls to 3803 back in April of this year, wouldn't they just be adding to the cost of the "Centurion" 17 service? More revenue to get back, and another 'pointless repaint' as you mentioned a few weeks ago..?
Out of all of this, the 17 has gained an additional spare vehicle (5166). 5164 has been transferred to Saltmeadows to act as a spare for "Pulse" services 67/69 (which will hopefully improve the reliability of these services), but 5166 - so far - has remained at Percy Main.
Do note that Go North East are now also generating revenue by the use of advertisements on these vehicles - as of August this year (see photo here). This again will help with how cost-effective the branding on this service is as it will again be generating revenue easily.
Go North East are happy because they're making a profit, customers are happy because they have a service which has a brand identity.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 Branding is a mess at GNE.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 Branding is a mess at GNE.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 I think first of all, I'm aware of the Renowns weren't repainted
(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 but it's just I think they might as well of branded the two vehicles and a full centurion fleet to match the PVR, obviously northern vehicles will appear from time to time I'm not daft but this means that many vehicles arent branded each day.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 And if as you say 5166 is a spare it should be branded or into Northern.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 But what is the solution GNE are never going to use extra vehicles despite the fact they argueably should. My point is that customers aren't getting brand identity on the centurion service, and some other services. The 61 is another example.. The 'Drifter' 61 since Novemeber 2012 changes the drifter vehicles started interworking with the 38's meaning it was always having at least two runs an hour 'Northern' Branded. Even when the interworking stopped drifter cadets continued to see use on the 38. And then since June 2013 changes the service is never drifter branded and uses the simplicity Versa's.
Branding is a mess at GNE.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 My point is that customers aren't getting brand identity on the centurion service, and some other services.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 The 61 is another example.. The 'Drifter' 61 since Novemeber 2012 changes the drifter vehicles started interworking with the 38's meaning it was always having at least two runs an hour 'Northern' Branded. Even when the interworking stopped drifter cadets continued to see use on the 38. And then since June 2013 changes the service is never drifter branded and uses the simplicity Versa's.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 Branding is a mess at GNE.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 I think first of all, I'm aware of the Renowns weren't repainted
(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 but it's just I think they might as well of branded the two vehicles and a full centurion fleet to match the PVR, obviously northern vehicles will appear from time to time I'm not daft but this means that many vehicles arent branded each day.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 And if as you say 5166 is a spare it should be branded or into Northern.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 But what is the solution GNE are never going to use extra vehicles despite the fact they argueably should. My point is that customers aren't getting brand identity on the centurion service, and some other services. The 61 is another example.. The 'Drifter' 61 since Novemeber 2012 changes the drifter vehicles started interworking with the 38's meaning it was always having at least two runs an hour 'Northern' Branded. Even when the interworking stopped drifter cadets continued to see use on the 38. And then since June 2013 changes the service is never drifter branded and uses the simplicity Versa's.
Branding is a mess at GNE.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 My point is that customers aren't getting brand identity on the centurion service, and some other services.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 The 61 is another example.. The 'Drifter' 61 since Novemeber 2012 changes the drifter vehicles started interworking with the 38's meaning it was always having at least two runs an hour 'Northern' Branded. Even when the interworking stopped drifter cadets continued to see use on the 38. And then since June 2013 changes the service is never drifter branded and uses the simplicity Versa's.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:39 am)CatsFast101 Branding is a mess at GNE.
(01 Oct 2013, 4:33 pm)Daniel Since June, the 61 has received a temporary allocation until the Streetlites arrive at Deptford. The 36 (previously "SimpliCity"), in my opinion, did not deserve the Versas. It is perhaps for that reason why the 36 and 61 received an allocation swap.
These Versas will move over to the 39 when the Streetlites arrive at Deptford for service 60, and I believe it has also been confirmed that the 61 will be removed from the "Drifter" brand.
Would you have preferred Go North East to repaint the "SimpliCity" Versas green for 5 months and then have them repainted again so brand identity remained intact for the 61? Would this not have been a little 'pointless'?
There is room for improvement, but it certainly is not 'a mess'.
(01 Oct 2013, 4:33 pm)Daniel Since June, the 61 has received a temporary allocation until the Streetlites arrive at Deptford. The 36 (previously "SimpliCity"), in my opinion, did not deserve the Versas. It is perhaps for that reason why the 36 and 61 received an allocation swap.
These Versas will move over to the 39 when the Streetlites arrive at Deptford for service 60, and I believe it has also been confirmed that the 61 will be removed from the "Drifter" brand.
Would you have preferred Go North East to repaint the "SimpliCity" Versas green for 5 months and then have them repainted again so brand identity remained intact for the 61? Would this not have been a little 'pointless'?
There is room for improvement, but it certainly is not 'a mess'.
(01 Oct 2013, 5:16 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Surely it would have made more sense to leave the Versas on the 36 and the Wrights on the 61, until nearer the time. Or debrand the 61 leaflet/online. It is just bonkers to have (intentionally) allocated the wrong brand for months while still promoting it as a different brand. Especially since the only official Simplicity at the minute is the 42 which - oh, leaves from the stand right next to the 61. Brand identity for both services - kaboom.
(01 Oct 2013, 5:16 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Surely it would have made more sense to leave the Versas on the 36 and the Wrights on the 61, until nearer the time. Or debrand the 61 leaflet/online. It is just bonkers to have (intentionally) allocated the wrong brand for months while still promoting it as a different brand. Especially since the only official Simplicity at the minute is the 42 which - oh, leaves from the stand right next to the 61. Brand identity for both services - kaboom.
(01 Oct 2013, 5:26 pm)Daniel The PVR of the 36 changed when the service incurred a route and timetable change. It therefore could not carry on being allocated the Versas (PVR is higher when you include service X36, which the 36A interworks with).
(01 Oct 2013, 5:26 pm)Daniel The PVR of the 36 changed when the service incurred a route and timetable change. It therefore could not carry on being allocated the Versas (PVR is higher when you include service X36, which the 36A interworks with).
(01 Oct 2013, 6:57 pm)stagecoachbusdepot How much did the PVR increase by? Looks like its 5 for the 36/36A/X36 combined (looks like a fairly pointless interworking - doesn't save any time), not sure what it was before?
(01 Oct 2013, 6:57 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Even if it meant a couple of Northern spares (we know they love to have them out) to top up the numbers as described on the 17 - that would be better than branding being totally wrong on another service!
(01 Oct 2013, 6:57 pm)stagecoachbusdepot How much did the PVR increase by? Looks like its 5 for the 36/36A/X36 combined (looks like a fairly pointless interworking - doesn't save any time), not sure what it was before?
(01 Oct 2013, 6:57 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Even if it meant a couple of Northern spares (we know they love to have them out) to top up the numbers as described on the 17 - that would be better than branding being totally wrong on another service!
(01 Oct 2013, 7:02 pm)Daniel Is it not 6?
2 for the 36, 2 for the 36A and 2 for the X36?
(01 Oct 2013, 7:02 pm)Daniel Am I mis-reading what you are saying, or..?
That is exactly what CatsFast101 is complaining about - having two Northern deckers per day out on the 17/307...
The "Centurion" branded B10s appearing on the 9 (if that is what you are complaining about in the above quote) is another matter.
(01 Oct 2013, 7:02 pm)Daniel Is it not 6?
2 for the 36, 2 for the 36A and 2 for the X36?
(01 Oct 2013, 7:02 pm)Daniel Am I mis-reading what you are saying, or..?
That is exactly what CatsFast101 is complaining about - having two Northern deckers per day out on the 17/307...
The "Centurion" branded B10s appearing on the 9 (if that is what you are complaining about in the above quote) is another matter.
Right, I really don't want to carry this on too much.
I have nothing against use of northern vehicles. But I also think a regularly having not the PVR branded isn't ideal, it means the brand is watered down slightly so to speak. Customers will see more northern than centurion! The 61 point is that for nearly a year now, seeing a drifter vehicle is as common as winning the lottery! And why not debrand the simplicity Versas? Plain purple may have been a better option. Daniel, you also seem to be missing Stagecoach's point about a temporary and permanent allocation. Debranding the 61 would be a stupid move, but not one which would impact anyone. A GNE representative also suggested 4 vehicles for the 61, when PVR Is 5. I was also wondering if the temporary allocation could be part of a marketing push by GNE? Maybe a new Drifter brand and a marketing push of the drifter services?
(01 Oct 2013, 10:00 pm)CatsFast101 Right, I really don't want to carry this on too much.
I have nothing against use of northern vehicles. But I also think a regularly having not the PVR branded isn't ideal, it means the brand is watered down slightly so to speak. Customers will see more northern than centurion!
(01 Oct 2013, 10:00 pm)CatsFast101 The 61 point is that for nearly a year now, seeing a drifter vehicle is as common as winning the lottery! And why not debrand the simplicity Versas? Plain purple may have been a better option.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:00 pm)CatsFast101 Daniel, you also seem to be missing Stagecoach's point about a temporary and permanent allocation.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:00 pm)CatsFast101 Debranding the 61 would be a stupid move, but not one which would impact anyone. A GNE representative also suggested 4 vehicles for the 61, when PVR Is 5. I was also wondering if the temporary allocation could be part of a marketing push by GNE? Maybe a new Drifter brand and a marketing push of the drifter services?
(01 Oct 2013, 10:00 pm)CatsFast101 Right, I really don't want to carry this on too much.
I have nothing against use of northern vehicles. But I also think a regularly having not the PVR branded isn't ideal, it means the brand is watered down slightly so to speak. Customers will see more northern than centurion!
(01 Oct 2013, 10:00 pm)CatsFast101 The 61 point is that for nearly a year now, seeing a drifter vehicle is as common as winning the lottery! And why not debrand the simplicity Versas? Plain purple may have been a better option.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:00 pm)CatsFast101 Daniel, you also seem to be missing Stagecoach's point about a temporary and permanent allocation.
(01 Oct 2013, 10:00 pm)CatsFast101 Debranding the 61 would be a stupid move, but not one which would impact anyone. A GNE representative also suggested 4 vehicles for the 61, when PVR Is 5. I was also wondering if the temporary allocation could be part of a marketing push by GNE? Maybe a new Drifter brand and a marketing push of the drifter services?
(02 Oct 2013, 6:56 am)Daniel Realistically though, it should only be two "Northern" liveried vehicles that are out, each day. The reality of the situation is something different completely, but it should only be the two Lolynes required on scholar runs that are used on the 17/307. This does water the brand identity down slightly as it happens every single day, but customers should not see more Northern than Centurion - it should be an allocation of 9 branded Renowns to 2 Lolynes, if I am correct...
Unfortunately, Percy Main have a lot of problems due to the ongoing unreliability of the Omnicities. To add to this, to aid the Omnicity repaints/rebrands, there have been a number of "Northern" Omnicities covering for those that would usually be out in service; as such, the 9 has been suffering and has received Centurion B10s on a daily basis. These issues should be resolved by next week as I believe the final Omnicity has now been repainted and returned to Percy Main.
Wouldn't it be rather pointless? I've quoted 'pointless repaint' twice now but you haven't responded - a few weeks ago you were complaining about the 'pointless repaints' at Percy Main. I'm led to believe this was nothing more than discussion between management (however convinced I was that it was happening, and however many times I actually brought the subject up) to get 5271 off the road. 5271, if I remember rightly, is the Omnicity that is limited to locals only before she starts experiencing problems. 5271 could therefore act as the branded spare vehicle until such a time arose that this vehicle could be fixed properly. Plans can change, and quite clearly have - clearly this decision wouldn't have been cost effective and therefore nothing more came of it.
Back to Deptford - if the "SimpliCity" brand is to be retained on these Versas for service 39, why would Go North East debrand them, when, in five months time, they're due to move over to the 39? I suspect you use the 61 quite frequently which is why you are so upset by this - I do too, but all I have heard is good things... "Look at these new purple buses on the 61!", "Ooooh.. These are much better than the old ones!", etc etc. I've known people to ditch the 61 to get the 60 because it has 'better buses' - and that's from non-enthusiasts. Of course this isn't the case at present but will be again in a month's time... Customers can easily adapt to changes which don't affect them in any way whatsoever.
What point has he made that I haven't already established in my posts?
There have been discussions regarding the removal of the 61 from the "Drifter" brand and whether it will be reinstated as "Northern" or a new brand completely. Of course 8306-09 will be freed up when they are due for repaint soon, but the chances that they're going to go Northern is slim. I personally don't know what is happening with 8306-09 yet, just that they will remain at Deptford (whereas 8302-05 will go to CLS for 34/34A).
The temporary allocation is not a 'marketing push' at all - they'd opt for the "MetroLINK" approach if so. It was convenience to save a little bit of money and not go through with a 'pointless repaint'. If the 39 were to have received the Versas but they needed a repaint, there would have been an additional cost that the 39 would have had to bring back - a little silly, when customers can easily adapt to having the service as "SimpliCity". It's a rather appropriate brand for this service I feel, and it was one I suggested that the 39 went under quite a few months ago in the service suggestions thread.
(02 Oct 2013, 6:56 am)Daniel Realistically though, it should only be two "Northern" liveried vehicles that are out, each day. The reality of the situation is something different completely, but it should only be the two Lolynes required on scholar runs that are used on the 17/307. This does water the brand identity down slightly as it happens every single day, but customers should not see more Northern than Centurion - it should be an allocation of 9 branded Renowns to 2 Lolynes, if I am correct...
Unfortunately, Percy Main have a lot of problems due to the ongoing unreliability of the Omnicities. To add to this, to aid the Omnicity repaints/rebrands, there have been a number of "Northern" Omnicities covering for those that would usually be out in service; as such, the 9 has been suffering and has received Centurion B10s on a daily basis. These issues should be resolved by next week as I believe the final Omnicity has now been repainted and returned to Percy Main.
Wouldn't it be rather pointless? I've quoted 'pointless repaint' twice now but you haven't responded - a few weeks ago you were complaining about the 'pointless repaints' at Percy Main. I'm led to believe this was nothing more than discussion between management (however convinced I was that it was happening, and however many times I actually brought the subject up) to get 5271 off the road. 5271, if I remember rightly, is the Omnicity that is limited to locals only before she starts experiencing problems. 5271 could therefore act as the branded spare vehicle until such a time arose that this vehicle could be fixed properly. Plans can change, and quite clearly have - clearly this decision wouldn't have been cost effective and therefore nothing more came of it.
Back to Deptford - if the "SimpliCity" brand is to be retained on these Versas for service 39, why would Go North East debrand them, when, in five months time, they're due to move over to the 39? I suspect you use the 61 quite frequently which is why you are so upset by this - I do too, but all I have heard is good things... "Look at these new purple buses on the 61!", "Ooooh.. These are much better than the old ones!", etc etc. I've known people to ditch the 61 to get the 60 because it has 'better buses' - and that's from non-enthusiasts. Of course this isn't the case at present but will be again in a month's time... Customers can easily adapt to changes which don't affect them in any way whatsoever.
What point has he made that I haven't already established in my posts?
There have been discussions regarding the removal of the 61 from the "Drifter" brand and whether it will be reinstated as "Northern" or a new brand completely. Of course 8306-09 will be freed up when they are due for repaint soon, but the chances that they're going to go Northern is slim. I personally don't know what is happening with 8306-09 yet, just that they will remain at Deptford (whereas 8302-05 will go to CLS for 34/34A).
The temporary allocation is not a 'marketing push' at all - they'd opt for the "MetroLINK" approach if so. It was convenience to save a little bit of money and not go through with a 'pointless repaint'. If the 39 were to have received the Versas but they needed a repaint, there would have been an additional cost that the 39 would have had to bring back - a little silly, when customers can easily adapt to having the service as "SimpliCity". It's a rather appropriate brand for this service I feel, and it was one I suggested that the 39 went under quite a few months ago in the service suggestions thread.
(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 Well I think we may have to agree to disagree on this subject RE- Centurion 17.
(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 You've picked up on one quote from me 'Pointless repaints' which was in reply to you frequently mentioning the de branding and repainting of Omnicitys- some which was just 'Pointless' hearsay and rumour from what I can gather.
(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 Your comments are all very if this happends/ if that happens. I've never once heard the 39 to go into Simplicity brand. So IF this is the case then why didn't these to on the 39 back in June?
(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 You seem to be of the opinion that a temporary allocation doesn't really matter.
(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 Well I don't understand that. The 61 is going northern but the Versa's aren't? How does that work what's the 61 getting then?
(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 Why would the temporary allocation be a marketing push- I'm not sure you've grasped the point there. I mean once StreetLites arrive, the two service could get new/newer buses with a new updated brand.
(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 Well I think we may have to agree to disagree on this subject RE- Centurion 17.
(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 You've picked up on one quote from me 'Pointless repaints' which was in reply to you frequently mentioning the de branding and repainting of Omnicitys- some which was just 'Pointless' hearsay and rumour from what I can gather.
(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 Your comments are all very if this happends/ if that happens. I've never once heard the 39 to go into Simplicity brand. So IF this is the case then why didn't these to on the 39 back in June?
(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 You seem to be of the opinion that a temporary allocation doesn't really matter.
(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 Well I don't understand that. The 61 is going northern but the Versa's aren't? How does that work what's the 61 getting then?
(02 Oct 2013, 2:57 pm)CatsFast101 Why would the temporary allocation be a marketing push- I'm not sure you've grasped the point there. I mean once StreetLites arrive, the two service could get new/newer buses with a new updated brand.
