Branding
Branding
(09 May 2014, 5:38 pm)Andreos Constantopolous As I said initially, was just a query - but pleased adaptations have been made to take into account emergency window exits.
On the emergency door, it is obvious cuts have been made, but harder to see on an emergency window.
(09 May 2014, 5:38 pm)Andreos Constantopolous As I said initially, was just a query - but pleased adaptations have been made to take into account emergency window exits.
On the emergency door, it is obvious cuts have been made, but harder to see on an emergency window.
(09 May 2014, 8:49 pm)busman101 Pleased to have been of assistance !
The FPF seemed quite when I passed through this morning, although there was a few of them about - you just don't know who's who !!!
(09 May 2014, 8:49 pm)busman101 Pleased to have been of assistance !
The FPF seemed quite when I passed through this morning, although there was a few of them about - you just don't know who's who !!!
Overheard an amusing conversation this morning which made me chuckle.
Standing in the bus station, a bus pulled in.
The three people standing next to me had the following conversation:
Guy 1: Is this the bus?
Guy 2: Nah, it's a Northern.
Lass 1: No it isn't, it is Go North East.
Guy 1: It is Go ahead, it says on the side.
Guy 2: Well the proper name is Go ahead Northern.
At no point in the 5minutes I was standing alongside them, did they mention the brand name of said route.
A brand is no longer what we tell the consumer it is – it is what consumers tell each other it is.
Whilst looking for something else, totally unrelated to public transport, I came across this quote from Scott Cook:
A brand is no longer what we tell the consumer it is – it is what consumers tell each other it is.
I am not a fan of branding and I think I have mentioned it a few times, but the whole Max/Sapphire thing and the spare in Durham got me thinking.
Can anyone explain why the 22 was set up as Sapphire, yet the X12 designated Max?
(01 Jun 2015, 6:58 pm)Andreos1 I am not a fan of branding and I think I have mentioned it a few times, but the whole Max/Sapphire thing and the spare in Durham got me thinking.
Can anyone explain why the 22 was set up as Sapphire, yet the X12 designated Max?
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(01 Jun 2015, 6:58 pm)Andreos1 I am not a fan of branding and I think I have mentioned it a few times, but the whole Max/Sapphire thing and the spare in Durham got me thinking.
Can anyone explain why the 22 was set up as Sapphire, yet the X12 designated Max?
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(01 Jun 2015, 7:59 pm)tyresmoke Don't know for sure but I imagine it's down to the potential growth available on each service. There's also the fact that each Sapphire bid means ANE don't have to spend any money on it, and reap the rewards of the growth. We are limited in what we can do with the X12 too by Durham University, think we are allowed one or two changes per year to the timetable and that's it.
The Durham University inter campus link is currently out to tender again I understand.
(01 Jun 2015, 7:59 pm)tyresmoke Don't know for sure but I imagine it's down to the potential growth available on each service. There's also the fact that each Sapphire bid means ANE don't have to spend any money on it, and reap the rewards of the growth. We are limited in what we can do with the X12 too by Durham University, think we are allowed one or two changes per year to the timetable and that's it.
The Durham University inter campus link is currently out to tender again I understand.
Stay with me on this one. I have done a lot of travelling this week and seeing as I am not one of those to fiddle with a spreadsheet whilst on the move, it gives me time to think and ponder. A dangerous thing some may say!
It will hopefully bring an old thread to life too.
Whilst the branding of vehicles has its fans and has supposed benefits (I am yet to be convinced of them), I wonder if the benefits of branding can be outweighed with the wear and tear on a vehicle.
If we look at the workhorses of the fleet – the Scania Solar L94UB. Some are getting on for a few years old now, maybe towards the end of their lives. However, the difference in the standard of vehicles is quite noticeable.
I have often commented on the state of the purple Solars. They’re in a mess and for a trip that can attract a premium of £4.10 for a journey of less than a quarter of a run, it sort of grinds a bit.
A fair few of the purple Solars have been on the route for the majority of their lives. They have been in the purple base for just short of 9 years and in that time, they have trooped back and forth on a route, that has its fair few fast and demanding sections. Very rarely spending time elsewhere.
Prior to the 2006 changes, a vehicle could see time elsewhere, stretching its legs on other routes, across the patch covered by its home depot.
My favourite 5213, could be on (what is now) a 35 run one day, see a spell on a Gateshead run the next and see a run out on anything else Shields had prior to its closure.
Obviously each day, it would face its own challenges, but it wouldn’t face the same challenges on a daily basis.
Since 2006, well – it has been painted purple a couple of times and has gone back and forth to Durham every day since. It is still going back and forth to Durham and now, is having those runs extended all the way to Shields.
Compared to 5201 – resting in the mediocrity of a floating spare, after a few years in a flowery orange livery; 5213 must be lurching (in that annoying fashion it has) towards the end.
I haven’t been on any of the ex-Washington Solars, since last summer when I got a 28a, over a 28 by accident – so I can’t comment on what another year has done to them after 8/9 years on a 194/M1 and then another 2/3 on a 28/28a. I can imagine though…
Going back in time, Chester and Sunderland Road often alternated the routes a vehicle type operated on – particularly the deckers.
Chester would send their VR’s for spell on Durham Road one week and then alternate with their Metrobuses, sending them via Old Durham Road or to South Shields the next.
The Nationals would mix it up on a 775/778, 721, 777 etc.
Sunderland Road, often mixed and matched their Metrobuses with the Atlanteans. A vehicle would see a spell on Lobley Hill, swapped with an Old Durham Road run. Bensham Bank would alternate with Durham Road later in the month.
Nor did Winlaton keep their Olympians on a 649 every day of the week, 52 weeks of the year.
There was also the element of interworking.
A Metrobus on a 26, would run onto several other 2x routes, before daring to pass Presto again. It would have a nice run along the length of Durham Road, face a little test on a 25 up Whinbury Road, chill out on a 28 to Kibby, stroll through the Springwell Estate on a 27 and have a lap of Allerdene on a 24 - all in a day.
Interworking doesn’t seem to happen that often now – unless a branded route has 2/3 sub-services, it isn’t going to happen until the sun sets and the branding strategy goes out of the window.
I know running up and down a hill every day is gonna knack me, so like anyone, I would break the monotony and do some flat running now and again. I would maybe stretch my legs by going a totally different way.
Effective branding, doesn’t allow an operator to break the monotony, the strain nor the wear and tear on the vehicle.
Eventually, the wear and tear is going to show – no matter what colour or livery is on the outside…
And before anyone chews their gums about anti-GNE bias, it isn’t.
Although I have used a wide variety of operators across the North East and other parts of the country, I am more than happy holding my hands up and saying I am not as familiar with the fleets of those operators who don’t trundle back and forth at the end of my street.
The comments about branding and vehicles being stuck on the same (potentially arduous) runs day in, day out, still apply – regardless of the operator.
Yeah, logic dictates there's got to be some truth in this, although many operators may choose to base a part of their maintenance/ inspection periods on a mileage element, rather than just a straightforward 'standard' max 21 days.
Using this sort of observation, and whilst not as pronounced, stagecoach's branded 100 and x34 buses must have a similar situation, given their high mph sections? Will be interesting to see whether the cascaded Tayside e400 ultimately head to the x34 to displace its current stock, or if they are utilised elsewhere in the fleet.
Most buses in, say, Gateshead, are going to end up with a hilly run, regardless, though.
And you can equally argue that those routes with long, fast inter-urban stretches, like the prince bishops, pronto and even angel already have a mix of different paces and challenges on their journey - they spend as much time in nose to tail town or city traffic as they do stretching their legs. I should imagine that if you compared buses of similar mileage, rather than age, those doing long distance routes would probably be in better condition than those doing mostly stop start routes at fairly low speeds.
(07 Aug 2015, 6:57 pm)JakeSavage Yeah, logic dictates there's got to be some truth in this, although many operators may choose to base a part of their maintenance/ inspection periods on a mileage element, rather than just a straightforward 'standard' max 21 days.
Using this sort of observation, and whilst not as pronounced, stagecoach's branded 100 and x34 buses must have a similar situation, given their high mph sections? Will be interesting to see whether the cascaded Tayside e400 ultimately head to the x34 to displace its current stock, or if they are utilised elsewhere in the fleet.
(07 Aug 2015, 7:10 pm)BusLoverMum Most buses in, say, Gateshead, are going to end up with a hilly run, regardless, though.
And you can equally argue that those routes with long, fast inter-urban stretches, like the prince bishops, pronto and even angel already have a mix of different paces and challenges on their journey - they spend as much time in nose to tail town or city traffic as they do stretching their legs. I should imagine that if you compared buses of similar mileage, rather than age, those doing long distance routes would probably be in better condition than those doing mostly stop start routes at fairly low speeds.
(07 Aug 2015, 6:57 pm)JakeSavage Yeah, logic dictates there's got to be some truth in this, although many operators may choose to base a part of their maintenance/ inspection periods on a mileage element, rather than just a straightforward 'standard' max 21 days.
Using this sort of observation, and whilst not as pronounced, stagecoach's branded 100 and x34 buses must have a similar situation, given their high mph sections? Will be interesting to see whether the cascaded Tayside e400 ultimately head to the x34 to displace its current stock, or if they are utilised elsewhere in the fleet.
(07 Aug 2015, 7:10 pm)BusLoverMum Most buses in, say, Gateshead, are going to end up with a hilly run, regardless, though.
And you can equally argue that those routes with long, fast inter-urban stretches, like the prince bishops, pronto and even angel already have a mix of different paces and challenges on their journey - they spend as much time in nose to tail town or city traffic as they do stretching their legs. I should imagine that if you compared buses of similar mileage, rather than age, those doing long distance routes would probably be in better condition than those doing mostly stop start routes at fairly low speeds.
While I do like some of the branding in our region, I do think some of them are pointless. It seems there was a time when Go North East were intent on branding nearly every service. Take the ''Kingfisher'', which later became the ''Pulse'', and is now brand-less. There are some other examples of this, I think it's a sign that Go North East are trying to scrap a few brands/improve them with updated liveries. The ''Toon Link'' and ''Coast & Country'' are two in particular that I can think of.
Personally, I like what Stagecoach have done with their X47 branded ALX300s. With simple tag lines and a few vinyls, it is easy to distinguish an X47-branded bus from a corporate-liveried example. I think they do something similar at Brighton & Hove, where a few large vinyls on the bus make it easy to tell which brand it is, while it maintains the corporate livery to some extent. I think Lothian Buses have something similar, with a red swoosh at the front of some deckers and then the classic madder and white livery. I personally think some of Go North East's brands should be more like this, where a corporate livery is still recognisable but the brand of the vehicle is too. I'm not trying to say the brands aren't good in any way, some of the more recent brands are outstanding in my opinion, but I'd like to see if this would work. It seems to work fine for some of the other operators who do similar. Another pro to this, is that with just minor branding; I think allocations can be slightly more carefree. I'm not trying to suggest that branded buses should always be off-route because they look closely like corporate-liveried buses, as the whole point of branded vehicles is to keep them on one route and one route only, their own. What I'm trying to say is that with just a few vinyls, a branded bus can look very much like a corporate vehicle, and such a fuss might not be kicked up. How many times have people gone into orbit about a ''Sapphire'' appearing on a ''MAX'' route? A bit random but hopefully somebody knows what I'm trying to say.
I'm not usually one to post in these debates, but I thought I may as well.
(10 Aug 2015, 11:27 am)R852 PRG While I do like some of the branding in our region, I do think some of them are pointless. It seems there was a time when Go North East were intent on branding nearly every service. Take the ''Kingfisher'', which later became the ''Pulse'', and is now brand-less. There are some other examples of this, I think it's a sign that Go North East are trying to scrap a few brands/improve them with updated liveries. The ''Toon Link'' and ''Coast & Country'' are two in particular that I can think of.
Personally, I like what Stagecoach have done with their X47 branded ALX300s. With simple tag lines and a few vinyls, it is easy to distinguish an X47-branded bus from a corporate-liveried example. I think they do something similar at Brighton & Hove, where a few large vinyls on the bus make it easy to tell which brand it is, while it maintains the corporate livery to some extent. I think Lothian Buses have something similar, with a red swoosh at the front of some deckers and then the classic madder and white livery. I personally think some of Go North East's brands should be more like this, where a corporate livery is still recognisable but the brand of the vehicle is too. I'm not trying to say the brands aren't good in any way, some of the more recent brands are outstanding in my opinion, but I'd like to see if this would work. It seems to work fine for some of the other operators who do similar. Another pro to this, is that with just minor branding; I think allocations can be slightly more carefree. I'm not trying to suggest that branded buses should always be off-route because they look closely like corporate-liveried buses, as the whole point of branded vehicles is to keep them on one route and one route only, their own. What I'm trying to say is that with just a few vinyls, a branded bus can look very much like a corporate vehicle, and such a fuss might not be kicked up. How many times have people gone into orbit about a ''Sapphire'' appearing on a ''MAX'' route? A bit random but hopefully somebody knows what I'm trying to say.
I'm not usually one to post in these debates, but I thought I may as well.
(10 Aug 2015, 11:27 am)R852 PRG While I do like some of the branding in our region, I do think some of them are pointless. It seems there was a time when Go North East were intent on branding nearly every service. Take the ''Kingfisher'', which later became the ''Pulse'', and is now brand-less. There are some other examples of this, I think it's a sign that Go North East are trying to scrap a few brands/improve them with updated liveries. The ''Toon Link'' and ''Coast & Country'' are two in particular that I can think of.
Personally, I like what Stagecoach have done with their X47 branded ALX300s. With simple tag lines and a few vinyls, it is easy to distinguish an X47-branded bus from a corporate-liveried example. I think they do something similar at Brighton & Hove, where a few large vinyls on the bus make it easy to tell which brand it is, while it maintains the corporate livery to some extent. I think Lothian Buses have something similar, with a red swoosh at the front of some deckers and then the classic madder and white livery. I personally think some of Go North East's brands should be more like this, where a corporate livery is still recognisable but the brand of the vehicle is too. I'm not trying to say the brands aren't good in any way, some of the more recent brands are outstanding in my opinion, but I'd like to see if this would work. It seems to work fine for some of the other operators who do similar. Another pro to this, is that with just minor branding; I think allocations can be slightly more carefree. I'm not trying to suggest that branded buses should always be off-route because they look closely like corporate-liveried buses, as the whole point of branded vehicles is to keep them on one route and one route only, their own. What I'm trying to say is that with just a few vinyls, a branded bus can look very much like a corporate vehicle, and such a fuss might not be kicked up. How many times have people gone into orbit about a ''Sapphire'' appearing on a ''MAX'' route? A bit random but hopefully somebody knows what I'm trying to say.
I'm not usually one to post in these debates, but I thought I may as well.
Just been chatting to a woman in the office I am in today
She was talking about how she had to get the 639 at some point over the weekend.
Appreciate you can lead a horse to water and can't make it drink - but she was totally oblivious to branding and route number changes since the 639 ceased to exist however many years ago it was.
(04 Apr 2016, 9:06 am)Andreos1 Just been chatting to a woman in the office I am in today
She was talking about how she had to get the 639 at some point over the weekend.
Appreciate you can lead a horse to water and can't make it drink - but she was totally oblivious to branding and route number changes since the 639 ceased to exist however many years ago it was.
(04 Apr 2016, 9:06 am)Andreos1 Just been chatting to a woman in the office I am in today
She was talking about how she had to get the 639 at some point over the weekend.
Appreciate you can lead a horse to water and can't make it drink - but she was totally oblivious to branding and route number changes since the 639 ceased to exist however many years ago it was.
(04 Apr 2016, 9:06 am)Andreos1 Just been chatting to a woman in the office I am in today
She was talking about how she had to get the 639 at some point over the weekend.
Appreciate you can lead a horse to water and can't make it drink - but she was totally oblivious to branding and route number changes since the 639 ceased to exist however many years ago it was.
(06 Apr 2016, 11:44 am)Chris Funnily enough I had a similar thing with a friend the other week. He text me to ask me what time the 639 was due. Similarly, a lot of people in my local area still refer to 'The Northern'. And not just older people either.
(04 Apr 2016, 9:06 am)Andreos1 Just been chatting to a woman in the office I am in today
She was talking about how she had to get the 639 at some point over the weekend.
Appreciate you can lead a horse to water and can't make it drink - but she was totally oblivious to branding and route number changes since the 639 ceased to exist however many years ago it was.
(06 Apr 2016, 11:44 am)Chris Funnily enough I had a similar thing with a friend the other week. He text me to ask me what time the 639 was due. Similarly, a lot of people in my local area still refer to 'The Northern'. And not just older people either.
(06 Apr 2016, 11:44 am)Chris Funnily enough I had a similar thing with a friend the other week. He text me to ask me what time the 639 was due. Similarly, a lot of people in my local area still refer to 'The Northern'. And not just older people either.
(06 Apr 2016, 12:33 pm)MurdnunoC Similarly, I've heard people refer to the Red Kites services as the 745 some 16 years after that route number became obsolete.
(06 Apr 2016, 11:44 am)Chris Funnily enough I had a similar thing with a friend the other week. He text me to ask me what time the 639 was due. Similarly, a lot of people in my local area still refer to 'The Northern'. And not just older people either.
(06 Apr 2016, 12:33 pm)MurdnunoC Similarly, I've heard people refer to the Red Kites services as the 745 some 16 years after that route number became obsolete.
(06 Apr 2016, 12:45 pm)Charles41 My friend stills calls the X21 the OK Travel.
Charles
(06 Apr 2016, 12:45 pm)Charles41 My friend stills calls the X21 the OK Travel.
Charles
I think someone has too much time on his hands aspirations.
